samth changed the topic of #racket to: Racket v7.6 has been released: https://blog.racket-lang.org/2020/02/racket-v7-6.html -- Racket -- https://racket-lang.org -- https://pkgs.racket-lang.org -- Paste at http://pasterack.org
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<samth> lavaflow: report a bug and/or ask ryan culpepper on slack
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<und-l-t-d[m]> maybe a bit general question - but what are the pros and cons of using typed racket?
<und-l-t-d[m]> or, a different way to put it, why not just write everything in typed racket?
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<notnotdan> und-l-t-d[m]: i think it's a very good idea to write everything in typed racket :)
<notnotdan> but there are a lot of untyped libraries, and it's quicker to write untyped code against them
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<bremner> I guess there's a speed-of-compiliation penalty, and some minor inconveniences having to pacify the typechecker
<bremner> I've spent more time with plait, which has a stricter (in some sense) type system.
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<jcowan> There are two uses of type declarations: type checking and storage optimization. Which you get depends on your language and sometimes on compile-time flags.
<jcowan> Type checking is basically a kind of unit testing with a convenient syntax, but your program runs exactly as before (and of course still needs unit tests).
<jcowan> Storage optimization allows your program to skip run-time type tests in some cases, which means type tags do not need to be stored and certain optimizations can be done.
<und-l-t-d[m]> thank you all for your feedback
<bremner> jcowan: type _inference_ is an important part of the story with modern systems
<jcowan> Of course the nicest syntax is no syntax!
<bremner> fair ;)
<jcowan> I am not a fan of full H-M inference, which sometimes infer types so as to be consistent but completely different from what you intended.
<nisstyre> I've never heard of type checking described as being related to unit testing in that way
<nisstyre> kinda makes sense as an analogy
<jcowan> Thanks. I made it up on the spot.
<jcowan> (but I've heard things like it)
<nisstyre> programming by contract is the dynamic way of doing type checking I think, but if you don't know what type checking is you probably won't know about contracts either
<bitmapper> i've found haskell's inference to be more like that than something like standard ml
<nisstyre> type inference is actually the same as type checking in Haskell
<nisstyre> it's the same pass
<nisstyre> you infer the types as you go, and if you hit an inconsistency, you abort
<bitmapper> yeah
<nisstyre> some languages have `auto foo = blah` which IDK how I feel about
<jcowan> In MFTL, procedure arguments and mutable variables must be typed, and procedure returns may be, but that's only necessary in a procedure that wants to return a wider type than the one that's inferred.
<nisstyre> I like how Nim does it, they have local type inference and it just works
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<jcowan> Yes
<jcowan> auto is just a funny way of spelling var that happens to be a reserved word in C.
<narimiran> oh, spotted a Nim mention in the wild :)
<nisstyre> you can do `let a : int = foo` or `let a = foo` and it infers the type if possible in the second
* jcowan nods
<jcowan> Haskell unlike ML needs to do type inference in order to handle type classes correctly. In ML it may optimize storage but doesn't have to.
<nisstyre> narimiran: Nim is actually very Scheme inspired
<nisstyre> it has AST macros, and you can use the compiler to dump any expression in sexpr form
<bitmapper> jcowan: ironically you don't have to specify type signatures nearly as often in ML
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<narimiran> i know, i'm one of the developers of nim :D :D
<nisstyre> narimiran: oh sorry I didn't know that :p
<nisstyre> congrats on the nicely designed language
<narimiran> well, to be honest, i had nothing to do with the design, that's all Araq's credit; i'm merely maintaining it and fix bugs :)
<nisstyre> yeah fair
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<bitmapper> i keep looking at the port of shen-scheme to racket and wishing i could actually make it a proper racket language, but i don't think that would mesh with how shen works
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<brainacid> DOcs for buidling drrack from source on linux?
<bremner> brainacid: what are you looking for exactly? There is some documentation included with the source
<brainacid> ok
<brainacid> yes reading now... was on firefox in manual website
<brainacid> waiting on d/l on slow cell link out in the country lol
<brainacid> dang it only supports GTK toolkit
<brainacid> libXaw would of been nice... like emacs
<bremner> I guess the choice is made by wx
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<brainacid> p
<samth> bremner: wx is no longer involved
<samth> (except the name)
<bremner> ah.
<bremner> TIL
<brainacid> well im compiling gtk now so i can use racket
<brainacid> im developing a formal notation/language
<bremner> and your linux distro doesn't have gtk already compiled, I take it?
<brainacid> linux from scratch
<brainacid> obly build what i nedd
<brainacid> ;)
<brainacid> like i need to build my typing skills
<brainacid> with all my typos lol
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<samth> that happened in the rewrite-gui-in-racket change, which was 5.1, I think
<brainacid> its building now
<und-l-t-d[m]> Trying to wrap my head around documenting code... If my module export something with a contract, does that mean I have to duplicate that contract in the scribble files? Or the duplication can be avoided somehow?
<samth> und-l-t-d[m]: the scribble documentation contract is free-form, and isn't executed. You can use scribble/srcdoc to reduce the duplication, but it's more complicated to use.
<und-l-t-d[m]> samth: I see, I'm going to try scrdoc then. Thanks!
<brainacid> running drracket
<brainacid> :D
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<sepi> How can I include strings in xexpr without having them escapes. I wanna render some css with a ">".
<sepi> it doesn't seem to be documented or not easily found at least
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<samth> sepi: you may need CDATA
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