<snusnu>
mbj: in fact, i was recently wondering about the state of that rename .. and i actually had forgotten the new name ;)
<mbj>
snusnu: hehe
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<mbj>
dkubb: hola!
<elskwid>
Howdy.
<mbj>
elskwid: hi
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<dkubb>
good morning
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<elskwid>
How was the weekend for everyone?
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<mbj>
elskwid: I'm on a vacation, no monday equals weekend ;)
<elskwid>
mbj: You luck dog.
<elskwid>
er, lucky
<elskwid>
hrm, too early for proper communication - reverting to grunts.
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<dkubb>
my weekend was pretty good
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<elskwid>
dkubb: Good to hear. In other news, I plan to play with the Virtus type registry stuff (ya hear that solnic?) in the next couple of days. My first priority is to get our near completed Rails Rumble project up and running.
<elskwid>
we were too ambitious.
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<elskwid>
oh, and I'd like to take a stab at getting Mutant to work with Minitest (cc: mbj)
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<dkubb>
awesome
<elskwid>
October has been my day of "at least one OSS contribution per day"
<elskwid>
er, month of
<elskwid>
Seriously, am I ever going to wake up?!?!
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<elskwid>
bbl, time for the dentist
<bestie>
Hey so I tried to get a toy project working with ROM from the examples on GitHub today but it didn't go so well
<bestie>
Would love to help out and get at least the README examples working
<bestie>
or is it the case I'm really missing something and they work fine?
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<dkubb>
bestie: do you have a gist for the README example somewhere? then I can clone it and try it out to see what you're seeing
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<bestie>
thanks, reason I was playing around is that we're building a new app with decoupled persistence so it's either our own repo pattern with Sequel or try to use ROM and maybe help contribute to the project
<bestie>
our needs are pretty basic, we are also not yet decided on SQL / key value store / mix
<dkubb>
bestie: sequel is probably one of the better Active Record pattern ORMs, besides DataMapper of course .. although DM is mostly in maintenance mode at this point while we work on ROM
<dkubb>
bestie: ROM is still in active development, but the more I work on it the more I feel like it's probably a better way forward for the kinds of apps I develop
<bestie>
dkubb: Ah thanks for looking into that, so it was just a hitch with the constant lookup
<dkubb>
bestie: where did you get that example from?
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<dkubb>
bestie: I'm not entirely sure that example was correct.. which is why I'm asking
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<dkubb>
bestie: I just updated the gist with the example from http://rom-rb.org/
<dkubb>
we think we can probably automate some of the common mapping too, it's just that at the moment we're focused on making sure the interfaces for the components are solid before abstracting them away
<dkubb>
it's really important to me that we not just have a slick veneer over top of crappy internals
<bestie>
my thoughts exactly, we're definitely not interested in an active record implementation and we might decide to use redid or riak as our primary store
<dkubb>
the internals need to be usable too, because in any non-trivial app people will be diving into them and needing to dig around and customize things
<bestie>
that's awesome, very much in line with our philosophy
<dkubb>
I believe good design is fractal in nature
<lgierth>
exactly, users want to mess up the abstractions on their own ;)
<dkubb>
lol
<dkubb>
the plan of course is to provide some higher level stuff that will help people get started quickly
<bestie>
well thanks again, I'll have another play with it tonight / tomorrow and see how far I get
<bestie>
I see your postgres adapter is still currently quite … 'naive'
<bestie>
:)
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<dkubb>
yeah
<dkubb>
the sql generator is something we're going to work on
<dkubb>
in the pg adapter's defense it does something that afaik no other ORM adapter has done.. it's gone through massive amounts (tens of millions) of fuzz tests testing all sorts of randomly generated queries against a reference implementation
<dkubb>
it's found bugs in postgresql, mysql and sqlite
<dkubb>
even though some of the queries could use some tightening up, and transformation into inner joins where possible, it is far more likely to return precisely what the user specified than anything else I'm aware of
<dkubb>
oh and when I say tens of millions, I mean without error.. it's probably done 10-20x that over it's lifetime
<dkubb>
there was a few weeks I just let it run and checked on it every once in a while to see if it had any errors
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<mbj_>
back from STABLE 3G
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<dkubb>
I still think we can do better though. we're going to rewrite the sql generator, fully mutation test it, and then beef up axiom-fuzzer at the same time so we can apply fuzzing to any future adapter
<dkubb>
my originally fuzzing was more or less done with something I rigged up here. I think we can make it so every adapter gets the benefit, not just the SQL based ones
<dkubb>
I expect adapter development to kind of feed into the fuzzer, and then for that to feed back into the adapters
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<mbj>
dkubb: Getting stable internet in afrika is a challenge!
<mbj>
dkubb: I fixed a wifi router on a 20meter tall tree to get perfect 3G ;)
<mbj>
Took me a while to figure out correct position!
<dkubb>
hehe
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<bestie>
dkubb: sounds amazing. which postgres adapter are you talking about? I was talking about this one
<dkubb>
so ROM itself mostly delegates to axiom when it comes to communicating with the datastore
<dkubb>
axiom is something that you can use with or without ROM
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<bestie>
Oh sweet, I will definitely be looking at that tomorrow
<bestie>
Migrations are on your roadmap but not implemented yet right?
<dkubb>
that's right
<bestie>
which is fine, we can still use Sequel for that
<dkubb>
I should warn that insert/update/delete aren't yet supported in axiom-do-adapter quite yet.. so that may be a limiting factor if you were to attempt to replace Sequel
<dkubb>
at the time I developed that adapter I needed to make sure reads were working really well, and we didn't have ROM so there wasn't any need to write anything at that point.. it's definately coming though, once we update the SQL generator
<bestie>
dkubb thanks for the help, going to call it a night.