imperator changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p362: http://ruby-lang.org (ruby-2.0.0-preview2) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<andrewvos> Yeah "%e" => " 4"
<andrewvos> Which I still find weird. Anyone know why that is?
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<jtbandes> I notice that under ruby 1.8, with require "yaml", this produces an error: YAML.load '{"foo":"bar"}'
<jtbandes> ...but this doesn't, if you add a space: YAML.load '{"foo": "bar"}'
<jtbandes> why is that?
<andrewvos> That's not yaml?
<andrewvos> You mean JSON?
<drbrain> jtbandes: ruby 1.8's YAML parser is buggy and old
<drbrain> andrewvos: YAML can parse JSON
<andrewvos> drbrain: Whah?
<jtbandes> JSON syntax is (suppsoed to be?) a subset of YAML
<jtbandes> not sure how precisely true that is, though
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<shachaf> It's very nearly completely true, with YAML 1.2
<drbrain> in particular, JSON is a subset of YAML 1.2
<drbrain> but ruby 1.8's parser is not a YAML 1.2 parser
<shachaf> drbrain: Not *quite*, if I remember correctly. :-)
<jtbandes> and even updating the yaml gem will not give ruby 1.8 a YAML 1.2 parser?
<shachaf> For example JSON escapes non-BMP Unicode codepoints using a surrogate pair.
<shachaf> Whereas YAML does not.
<drbrain> jtbandes: there haven't been updates to syck since around ruby 1.8.5
<drbrain> maybe 1.8.4 even
<drbrain> use psych which comes with ruby 1.9
<jtbandes> I wasn't even aware that this stuff was built into ruby and not just ag em
<jtbandes> *a gem
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<jtbandes> the other solution I guess is switch to a JSON parser, since that's all I really need
<drbrain> yes :D
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<jtbandes> is via rubygems the only way to do that for 1.8?
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<drbrain> it's the easiest way
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<naquad> are there any network-monitoring solutions written in ruby?
<naquad> i need some small tool that will ssh to host do the checks (memory, free space, cpu load, network connectivity, ...) and display them on web interface
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<darix> naquad: sensu
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<naquad> "Platform-independent agent written in Ruby." - if not that i could try
<naquad> i don't want to install ruby where its needed only for monitoring agent
<zzak> huh?
<naquad> ?
<zzak> you dont want to install ruby, but you want a network-monitoring solution written in ruby?
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<naquad> zzak, i want a monitoring solution in ruby, i don't want solution that requires ruby on target hosts
<zzak> oh, gotcha
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<zzak> naquad: have you tried newrelic?
<zzak> also, if you need something a little more custom, you can always cobble something together with net/ssh and sinatra
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<imperator> you'll shoot your eye out kid
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<darix> naquad: i would look into teaching sensu ssh based checks. e.g. nagios/icinga supports them.
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<darix> maybe something like that exists for sensu too
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<manveru> hmm, mounting remote / with sshfs and doing checks that way :P
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<manveru> i bet someone will do that now, and i have to repent my words the rest of my life
<zzak> prolly
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<imperator> isn't that what nfs is? more or less?
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<imperator> blargh
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<postmodern> someone didn't test their bot
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<imperator> been a while since i had to do that :(
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<postmodern> where is the code located which unserializes Structs from YAML?
<charliesome> in psych
<postmodern> obviously :)
<postmodern> trying to trick psych into unserializing a Struct, and define a merge() method
<postmodern> that accepts an argument
<postmodern> so that I can trick Rails into accepting a Struct instance in params
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<freedrull> is it hard to contribute to ruby without knowing japanese 少し弱くてもいい、ちゃんと護ってくれる人を探しなさい。
<drbrain> freedrull: I don't know any Japanese and I've made lots of contributions
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
<injekt> freedrull: no
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<andrewvos> Is this valid ruby? https://gist.github.com/4451466
<gnufied> think so.
<gnufied> you are probably missing a semicolon in return value.
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<judofyr> gnufied: nope. `end` doesn't need a semi-colon
<injekt> no that's fine
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<judofyr> andrewvos: but I don't think "class foo.bar" is valid
<injekt> and if you added parens to the method name you can drop the semi-colon
<gnufied> judofyr: oops, sorry yeah '.' is invalid
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<andrewvos> judofyr: So how can I do that then?
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<judofyr> andrewvos: application.SimpleCommand.class_eval do
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<andrewvos> judofyr: NoMethodError: undefined method `SimpleCommand' for #<Class:0x007fc273062420>
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<injekt> andrewvos: what is 'SimpleCommand', not a method on application?
<injekt> and if not, why are you doing application.SimpleCommand
<andrewvos> injekt: It should be an inner class
<injekt> andrewvos: so you want application::SimpleCommand?
<gnufied> you can't access inner class with '.'
<gnufied> yeah ::
<andrewvos> injekt: Yeah
<injekt> do that instead
<andrewvos> gnufied: SimpleCommand hasn'tbeen initialized. How do I do it from afar?
<injekt> application::SimpleCommand is valid
<andrewvos> injekt: It is (as far as I know), but NameError: uninitialized constant #<Class:0x007f9c79172970>::SimpleCommand
<injekt> andrewvos: what's "Application"?
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<andrewvos> injekt: It's an empty class so far. I want to use the same class for testing though.
<andrewvos> injekt: So it's the "subject". Which is why I want to dup it.
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<andrewvos> So I want to dynamically add an inner class to a dup'ed class.
<gnufied> well you can do:
<gnufied> application::SimpleCommand = Class.new() { def self.arguments; …. end }
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<gnufied> not sure, if it fits what you are trying to do, but should work
<injekt> andrewvos: how are you defining Application?
<andrewvos> injekt: class Application; end;
<injekt> that's it?
<Paradox> debate time: 80 character hard limits: good or for the geezers?
<andrewvos> injekt: For now yeah
<injekt> Paradox: retarded
<Paradox> injekt, yay someone who agrees with me
<Paradox> this isnt the 70s
<andrewvos> gnufied: Thanks, that should do it!
<Paradox> we have a miraculous invention called the scroll bar
<gnufied> I use 80 character when doing Objective C
<gnufied> becuase I am a masochist
<gnufied> :-)
<injekt> andrewvos: >> class Application; end; application = Application.dup; class application::Foo; end
<injekt> => nil
<injekt> I dont see what's causing the the problem
<bnagy> I use two rulers, one at 80 which I would like to adhere to and one at 100 which I always do
<andrewvos> gnufied: I get dynamic constant assignment
<andrewvos> "dynamic constant assignment"
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<andrewvos> injekt: Hmmm
<bnagy> but fuck breaking an 87 char line which makes sense
<andrewvos> injekt: That would also work!
<injekt> andrewvos: yeah dont do that = Class.new shit
<ddfreyne> 80 chars is silly
<ddfreyne> I use 120
<injekt> jokes on you ddfreyne, I use 380
<bnagy> well if you work with split screen a lot it's not _that_ silly
<gnufied> andrewvos: yeah cool. if defining via application::SimpleCommand isn't working, you can always go to application.const_set()
<andrewvos> injekt: Heh, but I can't do that in a method body.
<Paradox> injekt, when i found out google enforces an 80-character limit internall
<gnufied> andrewvos: for more dynamic behaviour. :-)
<Paradox> y
<injekt> andrewvos: NOW you tell me that
<Paradox> i was kind of disappointed
<andrewvos> injekt: :(
* apeiros_ tries to stay below 100, but doesn't mind if there are some stray lines
<bnagy> but it tempts you to use stupid variable names, which I guess is bad
<ddfreyne> bnagy: I do use split screen a lot, but 80*2 is not the width of a split screen
<injekt> andrewvos: print all the code lol
<Paradox> but i guess its evidence that google is no longer a startup
<injekt> andrewvos: and my print i of course dont mean print, that would not be helpful to me
<ddfreyne> bnagy: unless you have 3 vertical screens?
<andrewvos> injekt: ^^
<Paradox> i just let my lines go as long as they want
<Paradox> but if it gets ridiculous i step back
<Paradox> and think
<Paradox> should this be refactored
<andrewvos> injekt: I have printed and popped them in the mail
<apeiros_> 80 col limit just encourages short method names
<injekt> andrewvos: :D
<apeiros_> and short varnames
<apeiros_> which is an issue of its own
<bnagy> ddfreyne: oddly enough, 2 x 100 plus the sidebar and two miniviews in ST2 is almost exactly the width of my screem :D
<Paradox> apeiros_, which, as i was taught anyway, isnt idiomatic ruby
<Paradox> i mean
<Paradox> which is more descriptive
<chris2> 80 ftw
<Paradox> "blargs"
<Paradox> or "x"
<Paradox> when you're talking about a game
<Paradox> where there are aliens called blargs
<injekt> andrewvos: right, basically you just cant define classes in method bodies, cant you do it outside?
<apeiros_> Paradox: I think it's not just a ruby thing. good code uses concise, descriptive names
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<ddfreyne> bnagy: I use fullscreen terminal, so it is super minimalistic ;) (with vim)
<andrewvos> injekt: Well, no because I'm going to have different Command classes added to application.
<andrewvos> injekt: Depending on the test case.
<Paradox> apeiros_, the idiom i was taught to was that dont use hard wraps, dont use unfathomable names, and don't abuse single-line statements
<Paradox> among other things
<apeiros_> and a descriptive name easily is some 10-20 chars. add an indent of say 6 chars and you can have 3 vars only in a single line with 80 col limit…
<Paradox> well
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<Paradox> some scopes i've had in models are pretty ugly
<injekt> andrewvos: const_set it is, then https://gist.github.com/d5b45b22245c80aef631
<injekt> andrewvos: also lol @ pride
<andrewvos> injekt: You've not seen pride?
<injekt> andrewvos: yeah it's just funny that you're using it
<Paradox> User.where(name: username).posts.comments.reduce(0,&:score).prettify
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<gnufied> injekt: you stole my thunder there.
<Paradox> takes a user's, gets their posts, gets the posts comments, computes a sum score, and formats it into a location-proper decimal
<injekt> gnufied: my bad :( andrewvos gnufied actually mentoned const_set before but I thought it was a silly idea because I didn't know you were trying to define it in a method body
<injekt> gnufied: ;)
<gnufied> lol.
<ddfreyne> What's the story behind pride?
<andrewvos> injekt: It's SO BEAUTIFUL
<injekt> ryan was bored one day?
<injekt> andrewvos: it really is
<andrewvos> Probably nyan cat related
<injekt> it's still funny that pride ships with minitest
<Paradox> i love the nyan cat rspec formatter
<injekt> best comment: # Make the string even more colorful. Damnit.
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<andrewvos> injekt: Does pride ship with MRI?
<injekt> andrewvos: :P
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<andrewvos> injekt: Nice :)
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<andrewvos> Argh. So an inner class of a dup'ed class doesn't have a #name.
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<andrewvos> FFUUUUUUUUU
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<Paradox> lolxd
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<injekt> fucking irb history never saves
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<injekt> drbrain: ping
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<injekt> andrewvos: huh? name is a class method not instance, it makes no difference if it's dup'd or not
<injekt> I think #name is defined on Module so it's an instance method on class which means foo::Bar.name is fine
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<ddfreyne> injekt: irb can save history... not sure how though
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<injekt> ddfreyne: right, usually be including irb/ext/save-history
<andrewvos> injekt: I just ended up writing loads of different test classes.
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<andrewvos> Argumentsicles is a shit name for my option parser thing because "-p" "--bla" are actually called "options" right?
<andrewvos> Or could they be arguments?
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<injekt> andrewvos: they could be either
<injekt> andrewvos: you're building an option parser?
<andrewvos> injekt: Yeah for fun
<judofyr> "I see you are building an option parser …"
<ddfreyne> andrewvos: In "foo -p xyz --blah" I call foo and xyz arguments and -p and --blah options
<injekt> cool, disclaimer: they're not fun
<injekt> ddfreyne: until -- then they become arguments ;)
<andrewvos> injekt: I'm enjoying it :)
<ddfreyne> injekt: yes
<injekt> andrewvos: I did at the start too
<ddfreyne> ^- option parser
<andrewvos> Optionsicles?
<injekt> lol
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<injekt> andrewvos: that's the 'library' name?
<andrewvos> injekt: Yeah
<andrewvos> Good?
<injekt> no
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<injekt> but I made mine 'slop' so listening to me isn't a good idea
<andrewvos> injekt: Should I just go with my normal convention and name it after a japanese monster?
<injekt> lol
<andrewvos> injekt: Usually it is, actually :)
<injekt> andrewvos: how about 'jafop'
<andrewvos> injekt: `gem install not-slop`
<injekt> haha
<andrewvos> :)
<andrewvos> no-option-parser
<andrewvos> not*
<injekt> I planned on fixing slop commands today but.. blah
<ddfreyne> injekt: where did slop get its name from?
<andrewvos> just-use-argv-shift
<ddfreyne> injekt: why "fixing"?
<injekt> ddfreyne: 'simple lightweird option parser'
<injekt> ddfreyne: slop commands are shit, but I've never had to use them so I never really worked on a nice UI
<injekt> ddfreyne: you know that, otherwise there wouldn't be cri ;)
<injekt> s/UI/API/
<injekt> haha I actually wrote 'lightweird' I meant 'lightweight'
<ddfreyne> injekt: well, cri was built with commands in might, right at the start
<ddfreyne> s/might/mind/
<injekt> ddfreyne: yeah
<injekt> it was an afterthought with slop, and I kinda regret even adding them
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<ddfreyne> injekt: one addition to cri that I am thinking about is allowing command descriptions (displayed when you add --help) in Markdown, and have a Markdown formatter for terminals
<ddfreyne> Kramdown should make that fairly easy
<injekt> ddfreyne: that's pretty intense
<injekt> would be neat
<ddfreyne> other than that, I haven't really touched cri in a long while because it just works
<injekt> yeah
<ddfreyne> injekt: I am generating HTML docs (with nanoc) from Cri commands :)
<injekt> :D
<ddfreyne> the advantages of having a nice API... :)
<injekt> cant tell if subtle dig
<injekt> they look good
<ddfreyne> perhaps an idea for slop :)
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<dRbiG> ok, this is driving me mad - anyone had any experience with PTY and TCPServer and implementing something akin to a telnetd?
<injekt> heh, I can traverse all the options nicely (the api is easy to use for that) but stuff like that should probably be separate and not ship with slop
<injekt> hell, im thinking i should do that with commands too
<injekt> this is how annoying the api for net/http is, I have resulted in building a wrapper https://github.com/injekt/nettle/blob/master/lib/nettle.rb
<ddfreyne> injekt: the API is basically... you have Command instances and they have a list of otpions as member variables... so there's nothing special there
<ddfreyne> injekt: extending objects at runtime is slow
<injekt> extensions are optional
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<injekt> it's only for a response object so you could do JsonExt; def json_body; JSON.parse(self.body); .. then Nettle.get("...").json_body #=> [{..}, {..}]
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<ddfreyne> yeah
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<banisterfiend> l
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<banisterfiend> ddfreyne: can a command have both flags and subcommands and is help for both of those auto-generated?
<darix> isnt nanoc using cri for its cmdline handling?
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<ddfreyne> banisterfiend: yes and yes
<ddfreyne> darix: Cri was originally part of nanoc but I extracted it into a separate reusable library. nanoc still uses it
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<injekt> banisterfiend: dont worry slop command stuff will be cleaned up soon ;) is that guy still working on a patch or can i just go ahead and rewrite it myself?
<banisterfiend> injekt: im not sure, i'll ask him
<darix> ddfreyne: i know. i package and use it!:p
<banisterfiend> injekt: he's AFK :) but his nick is kyrylo, he hangs on #pry
<injekt> banisterfiend: alright
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<whitequark> just use trollop
<ddfreyne> darix: nice :) package it for where?
<ddfreyne> ahh, OpenSUSE
<injekt> trollop is WHY i built slop
<banisterfiend> ddfreyne: do u have any of slop's k00 type conversion: i.e opt.on :l, :lines, "Only play a subset of lines.", :optional_argument => true, :as => Range, :default => 1..-1
<banisterfiend> ddfreyne: let's me pass in a range argument: --lines 2..10
<banisterfiend> and gives me a Range too :))
<ddfreyne> banisterfiend: nope, none at all... values remain as strings
<banisterfiend> oh ok
<banisterfiend> i like it, it saves us a lot of boiler plate
<ddfreyne> I don't need it so cri doesn't have it
<banisterfiend> fair enough
<injekt> I think it always comes to a point where apps need specific cli stuff so many people implement their own thing
<injekt> like slop doesn't fit a lot of use cases (nanocs included), enter cri
<ddfreyne> injekt: my goal with cri is to make it as generally usable as possible
<injekt> my original goal with slop was simply to remove the boiler place code of optionparser with the whole { |opt| options[opt] = true } and stuff like that
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<injekt> I really need to find some time for chronic
<judofyr> is that the time parser?
<injekt> aye
<judofyr> I've always wondered how that actually works :)
<injekt> lots of tokenizing :)
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<injekt> there's a replacement in the works, too
<injekt> but.. i need to find time for that, as well :-/
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<judofyr> is it better?
<judofyr> is it on GitHub?
<injekt> no, and I want to replace chronic (even though i would like to get chronic 1.0 out there first)
<injekt> chronic has many limitations
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<judofyr> like?
<injekt> but, that shit is hard
<banisterfiend> injekt: do you use any NLP libs or is it a hoem brew thing
<injekt> banisterfiend: for what?
<injekt> banisterfiend: the tokenizing?
<injekt> chronic is pure ruby
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<banisterfiend> injekt: i just mean generally for making sense of the natural language
<injekt> the tokenizer is actually more of a lexer
<injekt> banisterfiend: chronic basically generates tokens from words, then applies tags to each of those tokens, a tag is applied if the tokens value matches a constraint
<injekt> banisterfiend: for example "2000" would be applied the tag 'year' and 'time'
<injekt> and I believe the act of applying meta data to a token makes it less of a tokenizer and more of a lexer
<judofyr> injekt: I've always used tokenizer and lexer interchangeably
<judofyr> injekt: I'd rather have something like Chronic in JS though
<injekt> judofyr: yeah I dived a little deeper in and was told (by some) that a tokenizer has 'tokens' which are simple objects meant to do nothing more than represent the value itself, where a lexer would store more meta information upon these tokens, but i dunno
<injekt> judofyr: i believe soemthing like that exists
<judofyr> (that is, from a UX perspective)
<injekt> banisterfiend: this kindathing https://gist.github.com/4253798
<injekt> judofyr: I think Date.js does a fairly good job
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<banisterfiend> injekt: thx
<injekt> anyway chronic is 7 years old, it's about time I rewrote the entire thing :)
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<banisterfiend> injekt: does it have a decent test suite
<injekt> banisterfiend: fairly
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<judofyr> injekt: regexpy?
<injekt> judofyr: no
<injekt> :)
<injekt> haha 'kronic'
<banisterfiend> injekt: you prefer minitest to minispec ?
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<injekt> banisterfiend: I do
<injekt> I dont like my test suite adding methods to Object
<judofyr> why would someone Object to that?
<injekt> HAR
<injekt> that said, I do much prefer 'must' over 'should'
<injekt> should never made any sense to me
<injekt> may as well use "foo.might equal(blah)"
<banisterfiend> injekt: the thing i like about *spec frameworks (and bacon, which is what i use) is you can have nested testing contexts, describe "bar" do; describe "foo" do
<injekt> you can add that to minitest easily
<injekt> I do like bacon, it used to be all i used
<injekt> but i never liked test/unit much, minitest is nice :)
<judofyr> minitest/benchmark is also nic
<judofyr> nice*
<judofyr> if you're implementing algorithms
<judofyr> I've used it to make sure an algorithm runs in O(n^3)
<injekt> nice
<judofyr> and O(n)
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<injekt> judofyr: did you start your orm yet?
<judofyr> injekt: I have
<injekt> keeping it quiet?
<judofyr> but it needs some refactorings
<judofyr> yeah
<judofyr> I'm a quiet person
<ddfreyne> I don't like the .should.equal() whatever syntax
<ddfreyne> Too magic-looking
<DefV> agreed
<ddfreyne> For every method/function call, I want to be able ot guess what the return value is. What is the return value of .should? or .equal?
<injekt> in bacon it's pretty easy, .should returns an instance of Should and you can add/call methods on that
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<injekt> that said, I still prefer standard assertions
<ddfreyne> injekt: The problem with "assert_equal moo, blah" is that that method name doesn't indicate what is expected and what is actual
<injekt> ddfreyne: yeah that's the only issue
<injekt> there's always `assert foo == bar`
<judofyr> injekt: different YAML versions?
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<injekt> judofyr: nope, Pysch on both latest version
<ddfreyne> injekt: assert foo == bar is not great either
<ddfreyne> Smalltalk handles that nicel: self assert: a equals: b
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<ddfreyne> although... could still be ambiguous
<ddfreyne> oh well
<injekt> :P
<imperator> assert_equal(a, b)
<imperator> seems pretty unambiguous to me
<injekt> eh
<injekt> no
<injekt> imperator: which is the expected and which is the actual?
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<judofyr> the worst thing is that it's the other way around in Perl's Test::More :(
<andrewvos> injekt: Have you decided on a name for my option parser yet?
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<injekt> andrewvos: "loloptions"
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<judofyr> andrewvos: to follow in my style: zopts
<injekt> lol z in front of all the things
<injekt> zopts reminds me too much of zsh options
<judofyr> four-letter words starting with Z!
<judofyr> I think I might need to trademark that
<injekt> zopts is 5 man
<judofyr> zops then
<injekt> lol ops
<judofyr> or zopt
<injekt> zopt is neat
<injekt> zoop
<judofyr> OOP=
<judofyr> ?*
<injekt> poop
<judofyr> that's my new object model
<judofyr> (zoop, that is)
<injekt> im gonna make sure i register all gems starting with a z and followed by 3 chars
<andrewvos> optionsicles?
<injekt> first up: zorm
<injekt> :D
<andrewvos> sloptions?
<judofyr> injekt: noooooooo
<judofyr> andrewvos: ruby on options
<injekt> haha I had sloptions as an internal array of slop options
<andrewvos> ERMAHGERD EROPTENS
<injekt> roptions
<injekt> ropts
<injekt> romp
<judofyr> rmp
<judofyr> rp
<judofyr> r
<andrewvos> ehrpterns
<injekt> ^
<injekt> r
<judofyr>
<injekt> cops
<andrewvos> coptions?
<injekt> command option parsing stuff
<andrewvos> Culd have a cool logo with cops or something
<judofyr> cops
<injekt> andrewvos: just cops
<injekt> keep it short
<andrewvos> coptions
<andrewvos> craptions
<injekt> wtf brian
<injekt> cocks
<andrewvos> erptions
<injekt> plops
<andrewvos> opchins
<injekt> I made a java option parser and called it jopts
<injekt> im so cool
<andrewvos> heh
<injekt> how about
<injekt> vos
<injekt> ;)
<andrewvos> that's taken :(
<injekt> "valiant option smashing"
<injekt> not by you right?
<injekt> that would be nerdy
<judofyr> "Virtual Operating System"
<injekt> hah
<injekt> in ruby
<injekt> behave
<judofyr> I thought about creating a DHH gem here the other day
<andrewvos> Ooh
<injekt> I am gonna make injekt and just alias inject to injekt
<judofyr> I just don't know what it should do yet…
<andrewvos> injekt: Nope it's not by me
<injekt> judofyr: argue on twitter?
<andrewvos> judofyr: And on github
<andrewvos> moptions?
<injekt> zed is available too
<unsymbol> says yagni often.
<andrewvos> injekt: I used to not hate him. Now I do.
<andrewvos> Such a rude douchebag.
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<injekt> andrewvos: he's always been a douche
<judofyr> markov-chain based on DHH's tweet perhaps?
<injekt> lol
<injekt> that would render so much shit
<judofyr> or/and his blog posts
<andrewvos> Aww man I can't choose a gem name
<injekt> andrewvos: mop
<andrewvos> mop
<injekt> manly option parsing
<andrewvos> haha
<injekt> oo-rah
<judofyr> or Meta Object Protocol in Perl :)
<andrewvos> injekt: You know that would get burned on twitter by all the feminists :)
<judofyr> "mostly option parsing"
<andrewvos> MOAR OPTION PARSING
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<andrewvos> Yes
<injekt> andrewvos: hey man we're british, because of the mac rubyconf people we're all racist
<andrewvos> This is good name
<andrewvos> injekt: Yeah true, we're basically fucked.
<injekt> andrewvos: me and judofyr want recognition for the name in the readme
<judofyr> yes
<judofyr> README fame
<judofyr> the best kind of fame
<injekt> the best kind of fame
<injekt> HURRAH
<injekt> andrewvos: your lib names are the best "metherd-missing"
<andrewvos> Ohkay
<andrewvos> injekt: That was my favourite one :)
<injekt> andrewvos: do you use your irssi buildpack on a free tier?
<andrewvos> injekt: I don't use it
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<andrewvos> Never got it working nicely.
<andrewvos> And didn't have a nice way of sshing into it, that didn't reqire Heroku.app
<andrewvos> Heroku.pkg I mean
<injekt> ah
<andrewvos> And erikh told me I was crazy for trying to ssh into a heroku box.
<andrewvos> :(
<injekt> you can just heroku run ssh no?
<injekt> er heroku run bash
<injekt> maybe
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<andrewvos> injekt: Yeah, but that doesn't work on Prompt.app on my iphone :)
<injekt> ah
<andrewvos> injekt: What features should I add? https://github.com/AndrewVos/mop
<injekt> andrewvos: so you use irssi via a shellwith prompt.app?
<injekt> andrewvos: if so, how the hell do you send an option key from prompt?
<andrewvos> injekt: I have irssi installed on an ec2 micro instance, and I ssh into it from my iPhone.
<injekt> yeah i do the same with a linode
<andrewvos> injekt: What do I need an option key for?
<injekt> switching windows, i have to type /win x atm
<andrewvos> injekt: C-n
<andrewvos> C-n C-p
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<injekt> heh, numbers would be nicer :( but that does help thanks
<judofyr> andrewvos: --help page
<judofyr> automatic --help page
<injekt> also make sure you account for the -- stuff ;)
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<andrewvos> injekt: Can you explain how that works here please? https://github.com/AndrewVos/mop/issues/1 :)
<injekt> sure
<darix> andrewvos: esc+number also works
<andrewvos> injekt: Thanks brohan
<darix> andrewvos: also esc+[q-i]
<injekt> darix: well shit
<injekt> it does
<andrewvos> darix: Wow
<andrewvos> darix: Thanks :)
<darix> yes?
<injekt> <3
<darix> injekt: can you query me for a test?
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<injekt> no dirty talk this time
<darix> also works
<darix> /bind meta-a active_window
<darix> then esc-a
<injekt> wizad
<darix> to jump to the next window with activity
<injekt> +r
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<injekt> neat
<darix> i would kick out things like joins/parts from the acticity list for that.
<darix> /set activity_hide_level JOINS PARTS QUITS MODES NICKS
<andrewvos> Anything else? https://github.com/AndrewVos/mop/issues
<injekt> irssi 101 presented by darix
<andrewvos> darix: Make an IRSSI cheatsheet?
<injekt> andrewvos: `--foo=bar`
<injekt> andrewvos: welcome to option parsing
<darix> andrewvos: i did ;) http://www.irssi.org/documentation/tips - long long ago
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<andrewvos> darix: Cool :)
<andrewvos> injekt: I'm not sure I want to support --long=bla
<injekt> darix: haha, i had no idea
<injekt> darix: nice
<injekt> andrewvos: :D
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<darix> "How to toggle between 2 windows?" - "/bind meta-x command window last" now pressing meta/alt+x toggles between 2 windows.
<injekt> andrewvos: also slop supports -foo as an option as well as -abc as multiple options
<darix> is also nice if you wanna follow 2 channels e.g.
<andrewvos> injekt: So "foo" is an option and "a", "b" and "c" are all options?
<injekt> andrewvos: yes, it has a flag to toggling that behaviour
<andrewvos> injekt: Fuck that noise. I'm like the DHH of option parsers.
<injekt> haha
<andrewvos> CLOSED
<andrewvos> :)
<injekt> my fav thing about slop is autocreate
<injekt> Slop.parse(autocreate: true) is all you need in your code
<andrewvos> Oh wow
<andrewvos> injekt: Shit
<andrewvos> injekt: Maybe my library should only support that
<injekt> hahaha
<andrewvos> injekt: Would make it much more simple
<injekt> true
<andrewvos> injekt: But what if a user omits a parameter that is required?
<andrewvos> I suppose that could be handled in code
<injekt> how is it required? you didn't specify it ;)
<andrewvos> Well, if it's not an optional parameter I mean
<injekt> if you want a required option, you'll need to tell it, other wise it'll parse "--foo bar --baz" as "foo" with the argument "bar" and "--baz" will be true
<injekt> andrewvos: right, but using autocreate you dont have that leverage
<andrewvos> injekt: Interesting
<andrewvos> Ohhh shit
<andrewvos> injekt: Ok I was under the impression that when the script executed it would just parse automatically
<andrewvos> injekt: This is actually configuring slop with that syntax
<andrewvos> injekt: Interesting
<injekt> you'd just do `Slop.parse(:autocreate => true)` and it'll parse ARGV and auto create the options from the passed in array
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<andrewvos> injekt: I was thinking I want it to just take ARGV and build up an options hash (or object) from it
<andrewvos> Oh ok
<injekt> that's pretty much what slop does
<andrewvos> Okay right
<andrewvos> We're on the same page again :)
<injekt> :)
<andrewvos> But you can't specify help values etc. then
<injekt> nope
<injekt> I also have an 'optspec' stype of parsing
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<injekt> lol
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<injekt> one long string, slop does the rest
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<andrewvos> Jesus
<andrewvos> You don't know when to stop :)
<lupine> what can I do for you, my child?
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<injekt> I dont know when to slop
<andrewvos> hahaha
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<injekt> andrewvos: the optspec was really easy actually, and it was because I saw some python lib did it like that, thought it was neat :)
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<andrewvos> injekt: I think I'm going to stick with what I've got. Don't want to waste an entire day of work on personal projects :) (Feeling a bit guilty)
<injekt> :D
<andrewvos> Yeah that does look quite easy :)
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<injekt> funny slop supports -aFoo too, didn't even know i did that
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<imperator> are we still talking about option parsers?
<injekt> no we just stopped for lunch
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<ddfreyne> slopped for lunch?
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<injekt> hah
<judofyr> injekt: haha! I got mentioned before you in the README :D
<injekt> everyone knows i comes before j :-(
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<judofyr> but judofyr before injekt
<andrewvos> :(
<andrewvos> injekt: You're lucky I didn't say "inject"
<injekt> oh IM lucky am i
<injekt> huh
<judofyr> or inkjet
<injekt> "inkjet and judofry"
<andrewvos> ahhaha
<injekt> badass super heros
<judofyr> judofry and #reduce
<injekt> har
<dRbiG> https://gist.github.com/4446871 - any ideas why i'm still not getting a proper terminal when connecting with telnet?
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<glebm> injekt: I've added my guess about 1.8 hash order to answers
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<tockitj> how to add a module to (main) namespace from inside an method
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<manveru> xi ~ % ruby -e 'class Foo; def add; TOPLEVEL_BINDING.eval "extend(Bar)"; end; end; module Bar; def yay; :yay; end; end; Foo.new.add; p yay'
<manveru> :yay
<tockitj> perfect - thanks (:
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<injekt> glebm: eh, I responded, you should have prompted me on here or added it as a comment, as an answer it's going to be downvoted by others because well, it's not an answer
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<glebm> injekt: let's figure out what the problem is, then I can delete the answer.
<glebm> The order can be enforced by doing columns.sort_by(&:name) here https://github.com/rails/rails/blob/master/activerecord/lib/active_record/schema_dumper.rb#L107
<glebm> Which Rails should probably do anyway
<injekt> the sort isn't really the issue
<glebm> the indentation issues all seem to happen before the first comma in the line, so looks like @connection.column_spec is the culprit
<glebm> injekt: They are in a different order from what I can see in your question!
<injekt> glebm: right it's possible, but there's no reasonable way to explain it if two people are using the same version of everything
<injekt> glebm: I realize ordering is an issue, but it's the least of the issues, either way the bottom line is, it should be the same for both people
<glebm> injekt: Not necessarily; there are plenty of things in the system that just use rand seed
<injekt> eh, rails doesn't do random sorting or indenting for the schema dump
<injekt> that would screw everyone over and it would be a whitespread issue
<injekt> widespread*
<injekt> we use the same version of postgres, so the column specs should also be the same
<judofyr> injekt: totally out of the blue, but: I have a programming language idea: a language with ambiguous syntax where all versions of the code will be evaluated. and in fact, many things can only be accomplished by writing ambiguous code (e.g. IFs)
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<injekt> judofyr: that would hurt my head
<judofyr> injekt: I just haven't figured out *how* it would actually work
<glebm> injekt: OK, finished looking at the rails source for this. It's completely deterministic. Random guess, but do you have any git post commit hooks defined?
<badeball> pardon me for intruding, but assuming I know what you're talking about, injekt and glebm, I want to point out something that I think constitutes a reason for sorting, like glebm suggests. this is my diff in production mode after migrating: https://gist.github.com/4453136.
<injekt> glebm: nope they were the first things I looked at
<judofyr> injekt: hm. are you sure you have the same default-value in the DB?
<injekt> judofyr: the schemas are identical in that sense
<glebm> Aha
<injekt> badeball: yeah I can understand that happening
<glebm> injekt: It's JUST the sorting! :)
<injekt> no it's really not
<glebm> injekt: The alignment by spaces depends on the order :)
<glebm> amirite?
<injekt> rongur
<judofyr> glebm: the :default-value
<injekt> ^
<injekt> and it wouldn't explain why it's the same every time for each of us, but different against each others
<judofyr> injekt: the only thing I can think of: you ran the migration on a different version of YAML, so the default-value stored in Postgres is different
<injekt> what unique constraint is there that makes our schemas dump in a different order or with different defaults or something
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<injekt> judofyr: I thought that at first, but I went back and ensured we have the same version of everything, and even now when we run migrations it's the same story
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<glebm> Well
<glebm> C-libraries too?
<glebm> like libyaml
<judofyr> injekt: I would run some SQL-queries in psql to double-check the default values
<injekt> right that's what judofyr is saying, glebm
<injekt> judofyr: yeah
<judofyr> injekt: in psql: \d table_name
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<injekt> yup exactly the same data types and default vaeus
<injekt> valus-
<injekt> wow
<injekt> my shell is so laggy
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<injekt> mm weird
<judofyr> then Rails is totally being retarded :(
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<injekt> :(
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<injekt> wait wtf
<glebm> Does require 'yaml'; {}.to_yaml result in the same thing on both machines?
<glebm> Just to make sure
* judofyr is still waiting wtf
<injekt> judofyr: nevermind, yeah one pq column for serialized hash has extra newlines, nothing wtf worthy
<glebm> Oh actually FYI
<glebm> Syck generates \n\n
<glebm> Psych generates \n
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<glebm> As in {}.to_yaml: "--- {}\n" on psych vs "--- {}\n\n" on syck
<injekt> heh, we're both definitely using psych
<injekt> both return {}\n on both machines
<injekt> :)
<injekt> I have been debugging this for weeks, these things I have already checked, which is why I cant explain it
<glebm> Contents of .git/info/exclude are identical on both machines?
<glebm> I know you've probably checked most of these already, but something MUST be different :)
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<injekt> lol
<injekt> all git config is identical yup
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<injekt> the other guy has got another machine so I'm having him do the same thing on there and see what happens
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<injekt> meh
<injekt> I guess I'll just drop the db, load his schema and see how long it lasts
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<zzak> same libyaml?
<injekt> zzak: yussir
<zzak> sorry only half read the backlog
<zzak> weird tho
<injekt> very
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<andrewvos> Ergh, how do I test that something is writing what I want with puts?
<andrewvos> What's a nice way?
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<chris2> bacon and test/spec have methods to capture io iirc
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<andrewvos> chris2: I'm using minitest at the moment
<banisterfiend> andrewvos: maybe get it to write to an IO object instead, and then just pass in a StringIO :P
<andrewvos> banisterfiend: Ergh I don't want to accept an extra parameter though
<chris2> assert_output
<andrewvos> banisterfiend: I never like it. Maybe if I was using a more static language
<chris2> andrewvos: ^
<blowmage> why not capture_io?
<andrewvos> blowmage: Oh wow
<chris2> assert_output
<andrewvos> blowmage: Sorry was taking a while to read that
<andrewvos> chris2: What's that?
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<injekt> andrewvos: I use stringio
<chris2> a minitest assertion
<andrewvos> chris2: Oh wow
<andrewvos> So it uses capture_io
<injekt> capture_io is something i would have used had i knwn it existed, though
<chris2> yes
<andrewvos> Wow purdy
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<injekt> them docs are so annoying to navigate
<chris2> should support regexes tho
<chris2> i use less and these .rb files :P
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<injekt> andrewvos: "Gem name changed to "op" from "mop" after rking whined that he was about to release a gem called "mop"" hahahaa
<injekt> I would have still done it
<injekt> i guess that makes me an asshole eh
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<andrewvos> rking is nice though :)
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<rking> injekt: Besides, he's golfing his gem name down. It's a win-win except for the extra hassle.
<andrewvos> Perhaps I should change it to just "o"
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<rking> Wait, is the "" gem taken?
<rking> Dibs!
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<injekt> andrewvos: o is taken
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<rking> They need to relinquish that.
<andrewvos> :(
<rking> "Gem moved" Then move it!
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<banisterfiend> .
<banisterfiend> hi boys
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<rking> banisterfiend: I am utterly offended that you did not greet the females of the room.
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<reactormonk> rking, there are no girls on the internet.
<rking> Oh.
<rking> Nm then.
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<freedrull> morning
<andrewvos> There was one or two in here. Did banister scare them off?
<andrewvos> Oh. Wrong channel!
<emocakes> im a girl
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<tockitj> emocakes, welcome
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<emocakes> hey you
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<tockitj> somehow, i'd expect girls to be interested in ruby
<tockitj> its that beautiful
<drbrain> tockitj: uh...
<emocakes> it is
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<tockitj> drbrain, see xD
<emocakes> my girlfriend is actually watching ruby videos
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<emocakes> we are lesbians
<emocakes> from close to sweden
<emocakes> good huh?
* drbrain facepalms
<tockitj> close enough
<emocakes> seriously though, she is watching ruby videos
<emocakes> we may not be lesbians
<drbrain> there are plenty of women and girls that are interested in ruby
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<blahwoop> the jewelry
<drbrain> blahwoop: you should feel bad for making that statement
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<andrewvos> My team has more female ruby devs than male.
<blahwoop> i do feel a little bad
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<rking> blahwoop: I think I'm still the reigning champ of "misogynistic" comments on this channel in recent times.
<rking> I said girls who use female nicks on IRC are attention whores.
<rking> Which I kind of regret.
<blahwoop> haha
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<andrewvos> rking: I didn't know it was a competition!
<tockitj> rking, its not like they came naked on channel
<andrewvos> This changes everything
<drbrain> seriously, stop
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<blahwoop> andrewvos is your team in the us?
<andrewvos> blahwoop: Nope UK.
<andrewvos> drbrain: Me?
<drbrain> andrewvos: no
<rking> andrewvos: Wait, there are teams competing in this misogyny competition?
<andrewvos> hehe
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<tockitj> drbrain, why - girls are going to attract more serious programmers - its good to have them around
<blahwoop> how much experience does a junior dev need to be considered a junior dev
<tockitj> (win)
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<blahwoop> lol
<blahwoop> BAM
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<tockitj> just a joke, ofc (:
<workmad3> pfft, if you're just saying these things to win a competition, you're already not being mysogynistic :P
<blahwoop> uh oh
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<tockitj_> duh
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<andrewvos> heh
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<workmad3> heh
<dRbiG> anyone here knows internals of Pry? I wonder why tab-completion (as in 'tab y') paging works on my pty/telnet-thing, but 'normal' paging (as in 'methods <enter>') breakes
<andrewvos> dRbiG: #pry
<havenn> dRbiG: #pry is well-populated and helpful!
<dRbiG> aye aye
<rking> dRbiG: I actually have a bit of a pry paging issue myself.
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<islander> Where do I save files from sublime text on a Mac so that it is in the same directory as the irb?
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<emocakes> islander...
<emocakes> it all depends on where you open the irb from
<emocakes> pry is nice
<havenn> islander: If you're launching the default Terminal and running irb you would be in the Home directory (from Finder shift-command-H). Type pwd instead of irb to see the working directory name.
<emocakes> my terminal is the sex
<emocakes> is your's as pretty havenn?
<blahwoop> nice
<andrewvos> Mine is better
<emocakes> :(
<blahwoop> the color makes me want to not code
<emocakes> its a terminal, I don't use vim
<blahwoop> i mean makes me not want to stop code
<andrewvos> use vim!
<emocakes> blahwoop, solarized dark more or less
<blahwoop> its perfect
<andrewvos> Tomorrow-Night os pretty
<andrewvos> is
<havenn> emocakes: I think my terminal is pretty, but I prefer to keep it to one line: http://goo.gl/zU957
<emocakes> good point
<emocakes> oh-my-zsh <3
<havenn> Nice, rbenv adopted .ruby-version support with 0.4.0. So .ruby-version is now supported by RVM, rbenv, chruby, rbfu, and ruby-version. Standardization! :)
<manveru> what on earth is .ruby-version
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<havenn> manveru: A standard file instead of .rvmrc or .rbenv-version etc.
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<manveru> hm
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<manveru> so i'd use rvm --install --create use `< .ruby-version`@innate
<kentos> does the rvm team support .ruby-version yet? I hadn't heard about that other one
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<manveru> looks like
<emocakes> andrewvos, can I join your team?
<manveru> weird stuff though... it handles the .ruby-version like a .rvmrc it seems
<kentos> maybe/hopefully .rvmrc is good at ignoring stuff it can't understand
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<dRbiG> back to ruby - is there a way to make any process spawning commands inherit the STDIN, STDOUT, STDERR from the current context? in forked parts they seem to still use the initial STD*, even if I changed them inside the fork :(
<manveru> never change the constants
<manveru> change $std(in|out|err)
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<dRbiG> Mon_Ouie: woudn't you happen to be able to point me to a file where /bin/less is actually executed? unless there's a way to search whole github repos
<manveru> do i have Mon_Ouie on ignore?
<dRbiG> manveru: ok, i'll try this, thanks
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<Mon_Ouie> dRbiG: You mean the file where Pry calls less?
<dRbiG> Mon_Ouie: exactly
<Mon_Ouie> If so, lib/pry/pager.rb
<dRbiG> thank you again
<Mon_Ouie> manveru: There was another conversation prior to that on #pry :p
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<manveru> oh, k :)
<dRbiG> manveru: still, i have my local (in fork do ... end) $std* changed, but the executed bin opens the initial process $std*'s
<dRbiG> time to look at pry's source then
<manveru> yeah, you have to reopen them in there
<manveru> oh wait, you don't use fork?
<manveru> you want popen3 then
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<drbrain> yes, or Process.spawn
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<manveru> same thing, just harder to use
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<manveru> i can't for my life remember all the options spawn takes...
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<manveru> Open3.popen3(cmd, *argv){|si,so,se| }
<chris2> the order is totally borked up too
<manveru> that's easy :)
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<jtoy> is there a more compact way to write this ? data.match(/and|but|when|/) ? data.match(/and|but|when/).size : 0
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<jtoy> i thought I could use some of the special variables, but I couldn't find one that doesn't make me retype out the regex every time
<Mon_Ouie> Use a variable to save the result. Additionally, that will avoid processing your data twice.
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<Mon_Ouie> Well, there's $~ that contains the last match too
<jtoy> Mon_Ouie: ah, yes, $~ was the one I was looking for
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<islander> thanks emocakes and havenn
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<imperator> data.scan(/and|but|when/).size
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<andrewvos> emocakes: Where do you live?
<emocakes> berlin
<emocakes> and you seem to live in the amazon cloud according to your host ;P
<andrewvos> emocakes: London
<Mon_Ouie> imperator: The size of the match != the amount of matches found
<Mon_Ouie> (or to be found)
<emocakes> my gf is learning ruby andrewvos :)
<andrewvos> emocakes: Good for her
<andrewvos> emocakes: Wish mine would
<emocakes> haha
<emocakes> teach your gf sudo
<emocakes> then she will do whatever you want
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<andrewvos> Somehow, I don't think that would work.
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<jtoy> how do I do a greedy version that matches all capital letters? "aASD dasdADSAD".match(/[A-Z]/).size
<jtoy> that is only matching the firset
<jtoy> first
<injekt> jtoy: [A-Z]+
<injekt> oh
<injekt> wtf
<injekt> jtoy: what do you want to do?
<jtoy> injekt I just want to know how many capital letters are in the string
<Mon_Ouie> Use String#count : count('A-Z')
<injekt> ^
<jtoy> cool
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<imperator> Mon_Ouie, was guessing that's what he wanted, since that will always return 1 won't it?
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<Mon_Ouie> True, at least with the regexp he was using
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<tsundere_> does anyone know of a way to make rest-client not accept gzip responses?
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<injekt> tsundere_: check the headers?
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<tsundere_> uhm, specifically it crashes on gzip responses so there's no header to check, i'd like to modify the Accept-Encoding header in the request packet but its not mentioned anywhere in the documentation.
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<andrewvos> tsundere_: Maybe try an alternative?
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<tsundere_> i've gotten the same result from pretty much every alternative :/
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<andrewvos> Empty file?
<andrewvos> Try curl
<andrewvos> tsundere_:
<tsundere_> curl and wget work fine
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<tsundere_> it seems like curl and wget should use the same zlib as ruby tho right?
<tsundere_> so i don't get why zlib would crash in one instance but not the other.
<andrewvos> Not sure
<tsundere_> i guess i can try net::http
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<tsundere_> that'd at least give me better access to the request header
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<tsundere_> i'm pretty sure the server software i'm trying to access is a piece of crap, so i wouldn't be surprised if its gzipping weirdly.
<ryanv-raptor> don't know if this was posted (lost my log), but if you use the hook "add_before_execution_proc" from the documentation you should be able to set the Accept-Encoding to identity for rest-client
<ryanv-raptor> that gives you access to the http req
<tsundere_> ryanv-raptor: sweet thanks
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<rhalff> Hi, I remember there was some software to connect wifi devices locally, anyone remembers the name, it's not freenet, that's something else.
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<rhalff> I see a product in this, an independent wifi or whatever shortrange protocol thing, that interconnects your neighbourhood.
<drbrain> rhalff: like mesh networking?
<rhalff> After a few years, the device will prove to be almost of non-importance because the face-to-face social connections are regained again.
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<rhalff> maybe that's the word drbrain, not sure, will google it.
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* rhalff *still believes in the world and the people within it :-)*
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<rhalff> @drbrain, yeah it's that, but I also realize controlling agencies want to peak, I don't care about that, because the social function is more important to me. I would like to create devices like that, but also realize the peek governments want to have. I want decentralized and also allow governments to peek, as long as we are all aware.
<drbrain> rhalff: lots of communities build their own mesh networks
<drbrain> rhalff: for example http://seattlewireless.net
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<rhalff> hmz ok, I'm concerned with governments not knowing what is going on and creating unneeded suspicion, forgive my grammar... :-)
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<rhalff> which is a logic result, we must not fight, but try to find an answer for.
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<rhalff> I'm irritated with the fact we could create tight communities again, but it is not really happening. Apps to support this are so easy to make mainstream.
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<rhalff> Probably normal people think in devices,not in software. The whole community can buy a device and communicate with eachother and everybody outside will have no reach, gov is still allowed to peak though.
<drbrain> the hardware for good mesh networking can be expensive, though
<rhalff> nah, really?
<rhalff> how hard can it be.
<rhalff> without video it will be very cheap
<drbrain> you need at least a pair of high-power (100+mW) wireless NICs and appropriate antennas
<rhalff> ok, so each neighbourhood a dedicated thingy (sorry I'm not a hardware guy)
<drbrain> point-to-point antennas can be made inexpensively, but an omnidirectional antenna to serve a local area, not so much
<rhalff> And if facism breaks out, just destroy those things (physically) :-)
<rhalff> so with just some hacked wireless routers you cannot make a neighbourhood network?
<drbrain> you can, but the range or coverage may be poor if you don't pick the right equipment
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<darix> rhalff: freifunk.net are setting up mesh networks for spanning larger areas. but it seems the page is german only.
<drbrain> rhalff: note that the cost isn't necessarily extreme, but it may be higher than you expect
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<drbrain> say, $200-$500 per node
<rhalff> Ok thanks
<drbrain> the seattle wireless link above explains some of this
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<rhalff> I have the feeling 95% of any neighbourhood would like to participate.
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<rhalff> The ones who don't, need to be helped, the ones who systematically don't want to participate after a long period should have eyebrowse frowned upon. (something like that)
<darix> 2nd page is english
<rhalff> hm ok, I also installed openwrt, which would be a very good base for this. To make it work it should just become a product with some flavour of openwrt. A thing you can buy, which only connects the surrounding neighbourhood. Yet I also recognize agencies should be able to listen to it, that's also physical security.
<rhalff> We could get unsurpassed social tightness physically only know way back then and even better.
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<rhalff> Ok great manveru, the only problem I see is agencies want to have some sort of control or at least a way to collect intelligence and I feel most people don't have much to hide, how to fit that, or should it come from internal neighbourhood gossip? *sorry, talking to much :p*
<manveru> oO
<manveru> why on earth would you give them intelligence?
<manveru> do you record everything you talk with your friends and send it to the feds too? :)
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<rhalff> nope, but I assume facebook, whatsapp, yahoo, msn, gtalk does?
<manveru> is there a law that forces you to build a backdoor into encryption?
<rhalff> And I understand the need for governments to know things, just trying to find a balance in which we can socially live.
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<manveru> what they know, anybody can know
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<rhalff> If I was a criminal and there was no control whatsoever, smartphones would be heaven. Submit to 911 fake stuff, follow the cars and hit and run where you target.
<manveru> what?
<darix> what kind of drugs are you taking?
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<rhalff> just red wine
<manveru> he's looking for the milkman :P
<zzak> injekt: omg haha
<rhalff> anywayyyy, it's important :-)
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<manveru> they survived without it so far
<rhalff> who are they?
<manveru> humans
<manveru> some die, sometimes, but nothing too tragic
<rhalff> depends on your neighbourhood
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<manveru> i don't go to the sun
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<rhalff> We are talking about shaping society, not about surviving so far.
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<manveru> ok
<manveru> so you listen to everybody talking about when they farted because of too much beans and the bad guys just use tor
<manveru> what did you win, except for a fuckton of data that can and will be used against you at the worst time?
<rhalff> blah.
<manveru> exactly
<rhalff> I won credit
<manveru> at your casino?
<darix> also i wonder if collecting all that data wouldnt violate eu data protection and privacy rules^^
<banisterfiend> manveru: do you still use bacon when your'e testing on ruby?
<manveru> it would, still, but probably not for long
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<manveru> banisterfiend: yeah
<banisterfiend> manveru: k00, you wrote your ramaze tests in bacon?
<rhalff> Well, if you setup a local network, the amount of data collected would be less then what is already happening.
<manveru> banisterfiend: aye
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<manveru> rhalff: ok, do whatever you want, just don't make me use your network :)
<rhalff> ok, np
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