apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Nick registration required to talk || Ruby 2.0.0-p195: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p429) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<erikh> rickhull: I *just* got that pun. you are horrible.
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<ryanf> all just sitting there staring at the screen with your hand on your chin for 4 hours and 20 minutes
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<RickHull1> p bad
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<erikh> heh
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<yorickpeterse> y'all missing out on Euruko
<yorickpeterse> I think I saw a matz
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<erikh> meh
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<zenspider> RAWR!
<zenspider> I'm rapidly approaching 4 sigma!
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<yorickpeterse> hi from euruko
<yorickpeterse> I'm hungry
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<injekt> moin
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<zenspider> 99.9920% success rate
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<andrewvos> Huh?
<andrewvos> 60% of the time, it works every time.
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<questioner> Greetings, I come with trouble with ruby.h. I am trying to deploy the latest ruby on CentOS 6.0 and have built a rpm using https://github.com/haf/ruby-1.9.3-rpm -- however, after the build there's no ruby.h file in /rpmbuild/BUILD/ruby-1.9.3-p448
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<manveru> questioner: greetings, the latest ruby is 2.0.0-p195 :)
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<andrewvos> Well, you certainly live up to your name.
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<questioner> manveru: I question the usability of that; I am just deploying here, not developing and I have already encountered a problem with it from just running rake. So that doesn't answer my question.
<questioner> Are there any official RPMs that are up to date?
<questioner> That's really all that I would need
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* manveru being super helpful today
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<questioner> manveru: I have already seen that and it fails to find the latest patch level
<questioner> Did you read the results yourself before answering?
<questioner> If someone finds a way to get ruby.h from building ruby or finds an rpm for me, give me a shout. BRB
<manveru> ?
<manveru> ruby-2.0.0.195-8.fc20.src.rpm
<manveru> if you have problems with rake that's something we can talk about :)
<manveru> i don't use anything that needs rpms, so can't help you any better than that, and everybody else is asleep
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<Boohbah> questioner: use rvm or rbenv + ruby-build
<andrewvos> chruby
<andrewvos> Try to keep up with the latest trends in ruby version management Boohbah. Sheesh
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<manveru> rvm all the way :)
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<judofyr> manveru: you're so old-school
<manveru> i even use awk sometimes
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<GarethAdams> awk-ward
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<judofyr> whitequark: do you know the status of unparser?
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: YOU DICK, you should've come to Euruko
<yorickpeterse> shit would be baller
<whitequark> whaaat
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: it costs $$$ and time, and I didn't like the schedule that much
<whitequark> better write Foundry.
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<yorickpeterse> persuade $WORK
<yorickpeterse> I'm here with two co-workers...who've vanished sadly
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: see the last two parts
<yorickpeterse> fuckit, on the move again
<yorickpeterse> toodles
<whitequark> judofyr: hm.
<whitequark> mbj: ^
<judofyr> whitequark: also, found a bug when trying to parse camping.rb
<whitequark> judofyr: report
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<whitequark> ugh
<judofyr> whitequark: have fun!
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<whitequark> judofyr: hm, interesting
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<whitequark> (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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<andrewvos> Indeed.
<judofyr> whitequark: more edge cases?
<whitequark> judofyr: worse
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<whitequark> I cannot reduce this to a minimal test case
<judofyr> whitequark: woah
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<judofyr> whitequark: ah, I see you got it
<whitequark> judofyr: no, that's not a correct one
<whitequark> oh fuck
<whitequark> "t=1;(a)?t:T
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<judofyr> ah, right
<judofyr> makes sense
<whitequark> goddamn context-sensitive grammar
<whitequark> no it doesn't
<judofyr> it makes sense that you needed the "t=1" to reproduce it
<whitequark> no, it doesn't. sane grammars are not context-sensitive.
<whitequark> but this is how it is.
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<whitequark> judofyr: fixed
<judofyr> whitequark: nice!
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<whitequark> annnnd 2.0.0.beta9
<judofyr> yay
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<zzak> hi
<judofyr> hi zzak
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<yorickpeterse> sup
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<ericwood> yo
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<mbj> whitequark: hola
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<judofyr> mbj: how long until unparser release?
<mbj> judofyr: Unparser works, still not perfect but I've ported mutant to it.
<mbj> judofyr: Unparser has releases on rubygems already!
<judofyr> mbj: update your README, man
<mbj> Did not announced anything, very early 0.0.x releases.
<judofyr> mbj: cool
<judofyr> mbj: works fine on camping.rb :)
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<mbj> whitequark: BTW mutant got a way slower, but much more stable backed with your parser!
<mbj> And 90% of mutants runtime is running specs over and over again, so no significant slowdown.
<mbj> judofyr: cool
<mbj> judofyr: unparser only produces equivalent ast, not identical source!
<andrewvos> Github source searching is so shit
<mbj> judofyr: *equivalent ast when unparsed source is parsed again.
<judofyr> mbj: that's perfect for my use case: https://github.com/camping/camping/blob/master/Rakefile#L73
<mbj> judofyr: yeah!
<whitequark> judofyr: neat
<whitequark> can you post the unparsed camping.rb?
<mbj> judofyr: I use it also to show diffs like this: https://travis-ci.org/mbj/mutant/jobs/8520094#L181
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<judofyr> whitequark: http://pastie.org/8091439
<mbj> whitequark: I still need to verify unparser against all the tests in parser.
<mbj> And round trip some well speced libraries
<mbj> Still lots of verification work!
<whitequark> judofyr: oh, that is... surprisingly readable
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<judofyr> whitequark: Helpers#R is a tricky one
<whitequark> L122: wat.
<andrewvos> Has anyone thought of doing something with parser + git?
<andrewvos> Like, you could show if a method was removed
<mbj> judofyr: Dunno original code, pls report any problem!
<andrewvos> 3 variables added, 2 methods deleted
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<whitequark> andrewvos: the idea is not new; there are version control systems for .net (C# etc) which do this.
<mbj> judofyr: Reduced preferably :D
<whitequark> it's also really cool.
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<judofyr> whitequark: L122: @_r is true after a view has been rendered
<judofyr> whitequark: it's so that only the outer `render` uses a layout
<whitequark> that double-multiple-assignment makes no sense
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<judofyr> whitequark: it could also be: r=@_r;@_r=true;o=…
<judofyr> whitequark: actually, `r=@_r;@_r=o=…` is probably shorter
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<whitequark> um, = is right-associative
<whitequark> oooh.
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<whitequark> it's parsed as r,@r=@r,(r=...)
<judofyr> yes
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<whitequark> you're insane
<whitequark> all of you
<whitequark> and every single one of me
<judofyr> we already have a truthy value right there, might as well re-use it
<mbj> judofyr: Fixed README :D
<whitequark> mbj: this is... hilariously inconsistent
<mbj> whitequark: I changed capitalization in the parser README, just realized you have other gem names capitalized.
<whitequark> Parser is capitalized, but unparser isn't
<mbj> whitequark: Just realized, sorry.
<mbj> whitequark: You decide, did not thought enough before hitting the button.
<whitequark> I generally follow this: gem name is 'parser', project name is 'Parser'
<whitequark> well, unparser is yours after all
<mbj> I generally follow lowercase for both.
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<whitequark> ah ok
<whitequark> well, so it will be.
<mbj> whitequark: I thought it will create an PR, forgot I have commit rights!
<judofyr> andrewvos: AST diff would be cool
<whitequark> judofyr: dunno. camping is generally full of insane stuff :D
<whitequark> judofyr: also, AST-aware merge
<whitequark> it's possible with parser, but it's "hard".
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<charliesome> #ruby-lang:
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<charliesome> >> (-2147483648) * (-2147483648)
<eval-in> charliesome => 4611686018427387904 (https://eval.in/35498)
<charliesome> >> (-2147483648).send(:*, -2147483648)
<eval-in> charliesome => 4611686018427387904 (https://eval.in/35499)
<charliesome> wait weird wtf, that gives incorrect results on my machien
<charliesome> one sec
<whitequark> lol
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<charliesome> on my machine the first is positive, the second is negative
<whitequark> a bug in non-optimized *?..
<charliesome> yep
<charliesome> must be
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<charliesome> i only noticed it because today i was adding a sendnoblock instruction to my work's patched ruby
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<charliesome> accidentally broke optimized operators and turned them into regular method calls
<charliesome> test failures *everywhere*
<whitequark> wow.
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<charliesome> ruby <3
<mbj> whitequark: When do you plan the release of parser-2.0.0 ?
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<whitequark> mbj: there's an issue with release schedule
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<whitequark> after about a month
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<mbj> whitequark: I dont saw a code related blocker, but lemme reread the release ticked.
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<mbj> whitequark: okay, worksforme :D
<whitequark> mbj: there aren't any blockers, it's just a schedule
<whitequark> plus I need docs
<whitequark> 2.0.0 won't be released without at least some documentatio
<mbj> whitequark: Jo, I plan to release mutant-0.3 before my Eurucamp talk.
<whitequark> mbj: just depend on betas, or, after three days, prereleases
<whitequark> (I will release a pre1 at July 1st)
<mbj> Yeah, I'll do the same.
<mbj> Worksforme :D
<whitequark> excellent
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<mbj> whitequark: The port of mutant from rbx-ast to your parser was a very nice task.
<mbj> I removed so much ugly code!
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<mbj> whitequark: This is how mutators now look like https://github.com/mbj/mutant/blob/master/lib/mutant/mutator/node/if.rb
<mbj> I know you dont like the documentation format and we'll fix the yardstick tool soon not to rely on private method documentation anymore.
<mbj> But at least this code shows that stuff got a way simpler.
<whitequark> it's not just the tool
<whitequark> *all* of the documentation in that file is useless
<whitequark> it repeats what's in the identifiers.
<mbj> jo
<mbj> Lets skip this debate for now.
<whitequark> yeah
<mbj> I'll fix yardstick.
<charliesome> whitequark: so i wrote some stuff with parser the other day
<charliesome> its pretty awesome
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<whitequark> charliesome: cool! care to show?
<whitequark> charliesome: nice. it should work on 2.0.0 as is, and you can remove if's in all process(...) if ...
<charliesome> oh cool
<whitequark> or just use `super` there
<charliesome> i was just cargo culting off the built in shit :p
<charliesome> ah yeah true super works
<whitequark> charliesome: sure. I fixed #process
<whitequark> it used to barf on nil, now nil is a fixed point
<charliesome> this is actually how i found that bug i reported to you the other day
<whitequark> uh. parser has 86 closed bugs
<whitequark> #82
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<charliesome> whitequark: lol fixed that weird ass multiplication bug
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<whitequark> charliesome: patch?
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<whitequark> this was fast
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<whitequark> do you have commit bit?
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<zzak> he must have hacked github :(
<charliesome> whitequark ye
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<cout> why doesn't the world make sense like ruby does?
<whitequark> thank god the world doesn't make sense like ruby
<whitequark> though
<whitequark> not sure about that
<cout> maybe it's because matz has programmed my brain
<bgant> horse.dead do { |stick| stick.beat(horse) }
<bgant> seems to work for me
<bgant> :D
<cout> poor horse :(
<whitequark> cout: well, you're lucky it wasn't stroustrup
<cout> I'm even luckier it wasn't alexandrescu
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<erikh> ^^^^
<erikh> because D
* erikh is still mad about D
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<julweber> when you are looking for a Platform as a Service to host your web apps, you can try our Beta version of anynines: http://www.anynines.com/
<llaskin> given a variable with a value of 1.1 or a value of 1(and not knowing what the value is), how can I auto format that so it always shows correct precision? that is that if its "exactly" 1, it will display 1, and when its 1.1 it will show 1.1 ?
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<erikh> irc spam as a service
Aww is now known as AWW
<erikh> AWW: INTERNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY?
<AWW> I THINK SO
<erikh> THAT IS EXCELLENT SIR HAVE A GREAT DAY
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<lianj> >> GREAT
<eval-in> lianj => uninitialized constant GREAT (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/35560)
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<MartynKeigher> hey.... im getting a --- start_tcp_server': no acceptor --- error and i need a little help.
<MartynKeigher> a service that i am reinstalling on to the same port is unable to start due to this error. how can i unbind the "onld install" from the port.
<llaskin> given a variable with a value of 1.1 or a value of 1(and not knowing what the value is), how can I auto format that so it always shows correct precision? that is that if its "exactly" 1, it will display 1, and when its 1.1 it will show 1.1 ?
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<manveru> MartynKeigher: kill the old one
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<MartynKeigher> im trying but having no luck somehow??
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<MartynKeigher> im re-wrtiing this to go one port UP.
<MartynKeigher> hang on... think this may do it?
<manveru> well, find the old process
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<manveru> it's running somewhere
<manveru> lsof -nPi should show it
<manveru> if you're on linux, anyway
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<manveru> damn
<MartynKeigher> nice
<MartynKeigher> how do i kill PID 1216
<manveru> kill 1216
<MartynKeigher> your joking?
<manveru> no
<MartynKeigher> god damn it!
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<MartynKeigher> awesome!
<MartynKeigher> think that might just do it! :)
<manveru> :)
<MartynKeigher> will let ya no in 5 minutes! :)
<manveru> it takes 5 minutes to start your server?
<MartynKeigher> writing up conf file.
<MartynKeigher> **figure of speech! ;)
<MartynKeigher> k...it worked! :)
<MartynKeigher> thank you so much! :)
<andrewvos> Pleasure
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<andrewvos> Anyone tried http://www.packer.io/
<andrewvos> ?
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<eam> what's appropriate ruby convention for stuff like this? https://gist.github.com/eam/5887380 Do I need to do that module/class boilerplate every time I make a sub-module? I can't seem to just 'class Foo::Bar::Baz'
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<Mon_Ouie> You can if Foo::Bar is already defined
<Mon_Ouie> It affects constant lookup though, so you might still want to nest them
<eam> it doesn't seem to be, baz doesn't require foo/bar
<eam> Mon_Ouie: how do I avoid prefixing my entire file with several levels of indention? is there a recommended way?
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<eam> how does it change constant lookup?
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<Mon_Ouie> When you inter a module or a class, it gets pushed on a stack of modules in which constants are looked up. So when you do Foo::Bar::Baz, only the last class gets pushed up in the stack
<Mon_Ouie> While with nesting constants are also looked up in Foo::Bar and Foo
<eam> ah ok, that's preferable actually
<eam> I guess I'm just going to copy the definitions for each module/class in the namespace into every file in my project
<eam> doesn't seem to be a way around it
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<eam> this requirement to define the stack -- it exists because there's ambiguity between whether a namespace element is a module or a class, right?
<eam> if modules were removed from ruby, you could just class Foo::Bar without worrying about Foo
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<eam> like other languages
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<JoelMcCracken> is there a module_eval-equivalent which sets the class/module context for blocks>?
<JoelMcCracken> e.g. m = Module.new { FOO = 1 } ; m::FOO # => 1
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<JoelMcCracken> =(
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<erikh> did you try it?
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<RickHull1> postmodern: playing around with chruby, having an issue with bundler: https://gist.github.com/rickhull/5a9b2e156b28c6bd3f36
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<erikh> RickHull1: hash -r
<erikh> does that fix it?
<RickHull1> my local gems were out of date, updating them
<RickHull1> updating gems didn't help
<RickHull1> but hash -r did something
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<RickHull1> bundle env # works now
<RickHull1> what did hash -r do?
<erikh> RickHull1: it updates your path
<erikh> well, that's not accurate
<erikh> it updates what unqualified scripts point at in your path
<erikh> s/scripts/commands
<erikh> sorry been a long day... I've had 3 hours sleep
<RickHull1> cool
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<JoelMcCracken> erikh: yes, i did try it
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<judofyr> idea: The Newbie Grant. if you're a newbie who's never used framework X (or technology Y) you can get $50 if you try it out, following the official documentation, and write a report where you say what parts were confusing
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<jroes> that's really cool
<jroes> who would grant it
<jroes> I suppose framework X or tech Y would
<judofyr> yeah
<judofyr> or person Z if he/she likes Z or Y
<judofyr> err, likes X* or Y
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<whitequark> judofyr: excellent idea, but what do we do with flocks of inexperienced programmers (or just non-programmers?) who just want money?
<judofyr> whitequark: chat with them first
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<whitequark> makes sense
<judofyr> I mean, you're not going to get dozens a day
<whitequark> you totally do, trust me
<judofyr> let me rephrase: as a project owner you're not interested in dozens a day
<whitequark> that's right
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<whitequark> though, I wonder about SNR anyway.
<judofyr> the site should probably function more as a mailing list: insert your current experience and we'll team you up with a project if something comes up
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<RickHull1> have a $10-50 guarantee, depending on the feedback
<judofyr> or, more Kickstarter-ish: the project gets its own page and
<judofyr> newbies "apply" to specific projects
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<judofyr> SNR is going to be a problem, yes
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<whitequark> maybe reverse the relationship?
<whitequark> you make a writeup, and ten best receive the grant
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<whitequark> though, this has a lottery-ish feeling and is going to turn people down... dunno
<judofyr> yeah
<judofyr> I was hoping to not make it into a Big Thing
<judofyr> it should rather be more open-sourcey and friendly
<judofyr> thus only $50
<whitequark> $50 isn't that small
<judofyr> well, depends on the country and life situation
<jroes> you could always make it The Newbie Challenge
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<jroes> and take money out of the equation
<whitequark> judofyr: I imagine small... small? big! flocks of schoolchildren flooding the website
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<judofyr> jroes: newbiechallenge.com is taken already
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<judofyr> whitequark: that might be okay. as long as they're actually interested in learning and proving the docs. but yeah, the money could make it difficult to target the right group.
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<RickHull1> give them $5 worth of BTC
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<RickHull1> or a BTC nickel or something
<whitequark> what's nickel?
<RickHull1> more of a token but still useful
<RickHull1> 0.05 BTC
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<dominikh> bitcoin? why insult the people who are helping you :P
<RickHull1> what's insulting?
<whitequark> dominikh: I would totally take money in Bitcoin
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<whitequark> I once read the list of requirements for bank transfer
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<judofyr> heh, the more serious BTC gets, the harder it gets to trade it for cash
<whitequark> is this a prediction or an observation?
<judofyr> observation as well. Mt. Gox is getting stricter and stricter
<judofyr> or: they're slower and slower
<judofyr> and more limitations for how much you can take out and so on
<RickHull1> rather than framing it as a how-do-i-get-cash problem, instead it's an internet token. trade it for some music or donate it forward
<judofyr> I should probably verify my Mt.Gox account soon…
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<judofyr> I might need the money some time…
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<judofyr> RickHull1: true, but most of the market today is speculating (unfortunately)
<RickHull1> oh sure, you can't ignore the cash problem
<RickHull1> but in the context of newbie-docco
<RickHull1> you can
<jroes> I got it
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<jroes> how about a cake
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<judofyr> but yeah, bitcoins could actually be a good idea
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<judofyr> and 0.5 BTC sounds a lot less than $50 :P
<ryanf> hey judofyr
<ryanf> any particular reason you were asking about draper-like gems?
<ryanf> out of curiosity
<whitequark> he's masochistic
<judofyr> ryanf: well, I'm trying to sketch out other ways to deal with the whole controller-view-integration. not a fan of the "basic" Rails approach, and still not sure if decorators are the best way forward.
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<ryanf> interesting
<judofyr> ryanf: working on something cool? :)
<ryanf> not super recently. I have a small presenter gem that I wrote a while ago: https://github.com/rf-/keynote
<ryanf> it's pretty unambitious w/r/t the controller/view thing though
<judofyr> hah, nice nick
<ryanf> I kind of just wanted to make something that was optimally helpful just within the normal view layer
<ryanf> you might remember me asking you about rumble actually -- it has a tweaked version embedded in it
<ryanf> there's also an experimental branch that has support for writing inline templates as comments inside presenter methods, but I haven't merged it yet
<judofyr> ryanf: cool. I remember someone asking about Rumble, but I've forgotten it was you. so many nicks :(
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<judofyr> I even got a mention in the README. woo!
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<ryanf> yeah I mostly just made the escaping match rails conventions instead of markaby
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<ryanf> and reduced the number of tags it defines by default
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<ryanf> oh, also I made the outer rumble block mandatory again, because I was getting some weird behavior calling between different methods without the outer wrapper
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<judofyr> yeah, I think I made that mandatory in Mab as well
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<judofyr> ryanf: my general plan: not having decorators, but rather having a class (call it a "view class") that goes together with template
<ryanf> have you seen Curly?
<judofyr> ryanf: kinda like helpers, exception it's a class that you can control (you initialize it, you can set instance variables, and so on)
<judofyr> nope
<judofyr> ryanf: Cells is the closest thing I've seen
<judofyr> ryanf: ah, seems similar to Mustache?
<ryanf> if curly existed when I started keynote, I probably have tried using it instead. it seems pretty neat
<ryanf> although logicless templates would be a bit of a leap from our existing view code, whereas normal presenters fit in with their surroundings a bit more
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<judofyr> one thing I've been struggling with: how to make it fit into "regular" actions. e.g. I want to be able to do `def show; … end` and presenter logic to that action
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<judofyr> without a separate class
<judofyr> (and add* presenter logic)
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<judofyr> or, it's not really presenter logic I'm looking for. I think it's fine having regular controller stuff in the same class
<judofyr> e.g: fetching stuff from database vs. cached data
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<judofyr> what about this: what if you could do: class Index < Action; end
<judofyr> where you have a `def call; end` that's being invoked (if you need custom logic)
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<judofyr> and that just calls app/views/foo/index.html.erb with that class as self
<judofyr> you could then add: def post; @post ||= Post.find(params[:id]) end
<judofyr> I'm starting to like this approach
<ryanf> hmm
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<ryanf> that seems interesting. I totally agree that having a template execute in the context of a recognizable object that you have control over
<judofyr> then you could have another concept (let's call it "fragments") that are more standalone classes
<ryanf> would be a big improvement
<judofyr> e.g. if you're showing a Post the same way everywhere, you could do: class Post < Fragment; def initialize(post) end end
<ryanf> then you could actually use the "helper" concept in a less dumb way than just like "here's a giant mystery object with every single helper mixed into it"
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<judofyr> and Post#to_s would render app/fragments/post.html.erb
<ryanf> interesting
<ryanf> I think one interesting subject that's come up for me thinking about this stuff is like
<ryanf> when does it make sense for control flow to be in the template vs being in ruby
<judofyr> and Action is of course just a subclass Fragment: it's a more specialized Fragment (it takes a controller context as parameter, provides some delegates to the controller, changes the template path)
<ryanf> it sounds like you're leaning towards control flow in the template calling into methods on the presenter/
<ryanf> ?
<judofyr> ryanf: yes
<judofyr> I don't quite consider it a "presenter" though. it's no longer just about presenting
<ryanf> sure
<whitequark> I kinda feel that you are reinventing ASP here
<whitequark> maybe take a look at it
<judofyr> whitequark: VIEWSTATE on Rails is next on my TODO list
<whitequark> seriously?
<judofyr> no
<judofyr> :D
<judofyr> but now I kinda want to make a gem out of it
<whitequark> lol.
* whitequark finishes writing the new Foundry parser
<whitequark> foo(1);
<whitequark> (Send () (Var () foo) call ((ActualArg () (Int () 1))))
<whitequark> look, you can call local vars!
<judofyr> nice
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<whitequark> also you can do foo(1, bar: "foo", 2)
<whitequark> the language basically splits positional and keyword arguments into two "bins" and passes them distinctly
<whitequark> no hash madness
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<judofyr> ryanf: I've found that having templates with little logic is so much more maintainable. I don't mind writing Ruby though, but ERB+Helpers+instance variables isn't enough
<whitequark> but: you cannot arbitrarily name arguments like in Python... that really doesn't play well with forwarding
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<ryanf> judofyr: sure
<judofyr> ryanf: let me rephrase: logicless templates are better, but I don't need a logicless language to accomplish it.
<ryanf> yeah
<ryanf> it just seems like realistically, minimizing the amount of logic in the template requires tools that make it easy to express that logic in non-template form
<judofyr> yes
<ryanf> since the logic itself isn't going anywhere
<judofyr> and Rails seems really stuck on "MVC" is all you need, and you end up putting everything into these buckets
<ryanf> yep
<judofyr> validations goes into models, but recently they moved *some* of it out into controllers. templates overflows into helpers. helpers turns into a mess.
<ryanf> anyway yeah, personally I think decorators are much less interesting than just objects that have responsibility for view logic
<ryanf> there's a bit in the keynote readme about why I don't like decorators, but it sounds like you aren't interested in going that way anyway
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<ryanf> the stuff you're talking about trying sounds really interesting
<judofyr> it always helps to talk about it
<judofyr> I've been thinking loosely about this in the last days
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<judofyr> the whole "class Index < Action" was something I discovered now
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<ryanf> that's interesting in that it sounds more like it corresponds to a non-partial rails view
<ryanf> whereas people usually just think about making reusable stuff easier, like normal partials
<judofyr> non-partial rails view?
<ryanf> urgh, having trouble being coherent. what I mean is draper etc all target the use case of making it easier to dry up small pieces of view
<ryanf> not making it easy to organize the entire view for an action
<ryanf> yeah, like /views/posts/show.html.erb and not _post.html.erb
<judofyr> ah, yes
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<judofyr> every templates/view starts out unique, it's only later that you realize you need to share code. I'd like my actions to grow in the same way.
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<judofyr> and not being forced to create a new view file, a new template, and just invoke that from my view
<judofyr> s/my view/my action/
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<ryanf> completely unrelated: there's some talk of making rails use temple, isn't there?
<ryanf> er I mean
<ryanf> tilt
<judofyr> well, no-one is working on it
<judofyr> it's more like a "it would be nice, wouldn't it?"
<ryanf> oh ok
<judofyr> but it doesn't bring that many advantages
<ryanf> I was wondering if there was code to make tilt use rails-y escaping
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<ryanf> when I was doing the inline stuff for keynote, I started with tilt, but it seemed really hard to make the templates behave the same as rails templates
<ryanf> so I ended up hacking up actionview instead
<judofyr> depends. you can't use Tilt's ERB module
<judofyr> if you're writing your own template class for Tilt, you just need to use ActiveSupport::SafeBuffer
<judofyr> or whatever it's called
<ryanf> that
<judofyr> Slim has some code for it
<ryanf> well the idea is that you can use any supported template language
<ryanf> yeah, it seemed like a few of them could be special-cased
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<judofyr> or maybe it's Temple
<ryanf> hmm, interesting
<ryanf> I never really looked into temple
<judofyr> it's been a while since I've looked at it too
<judofyr> the docs aren't up to date and it's grown quite a lot
<ryanf> the actionview stuff works but it's pretty nasty https://github.com/rf-/keynote/blob/master/lib/keynote/inline.rb
<judofyr> I feel lost when I use it :)
<judofyr> ryanf: heh, and here I thought they made Rails 3 modular and perfect…
<judofyr> Rails 3: "yes, we're making it modular, but rendering is still a private API and a pain in the ass"
<ryanf> I think I've seen someone express a desire to separate the templates from the controllers more
<ryanf> recently
<ryanf> not sure if that's gone anywhere though
<ryanf> and I don't remember who it was
<judofyr> or, maybe it's not a private API, but there's no docs
<ryanf> yeah
<judofyr> interesting
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<judofyr> ryanf: block of comments? interesting approach. any reason you didn't want to use a heredoc?
<ryanf> the main reasons were
<ryanf> that way people can't fuck up the template caching by interpolating into the template string
<ryanf> and it's less syntactically noisy
<ryanf> and I thought it would be cool :)
<judofyr> it feels a bit "wrong", but it has a certain appeal
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<ryanf> yeah, part of the reason I haven't released it in a gem yet is that I haven't quite figured out how much to emphasize it or whether it's even a good idea
<whitequark> comments. wow. probably the lamest way someone has embedded one language in another I've seen in a while
<whitequark> it did some good for you though: for example, no escaping problems.
<ryanf> whitequark: thanks :)
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<whitequark> ryanf: the general problem with this is that comments are widely assumed to not change the meaning of code
<ryanf> yes
<ryanf> it's a huge violation of the principle of least surprise
<whitequark> has nothing to do with principles, honestly
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<whitequark> it is an invariant. "if I remove comments, nothing changes". you violate this invariant, which is otherwise enforced by Ruby
<whitequark> which is by itself not necessarily a bad thing; but you force your consumers to validate their tooling, which was built upon different assumptions.
* whitequark shrugs
<whitequark> consider, for example, code analysis tools like CodeClimate
<whitequark> they will have a *very* hard time catching up with your gem
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<whitequark> unless they use a better parsing solution like my parser :p
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<ryanf> yeah, fair enough
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<whitequark> then, consider IDEs like RubyMine and their refactoring capabilities
<ryanf> although when it comes to analysis, code climate isn't going to be looking inside a string for template code anyway
<whitequark> ryanf: oh, I think brakeman does a little bit of such analysis
<ryanf> so that might be more of an argument against embedding templates in a ruby file period
<ryanf> (which is certainly fair)
<whitequark> probably not enough in your case, but it can be relatively easy extended to analyze heredocs
<whitequark> then, consider JRuby and its compilation process, which obviously discards comments
<whitequark> so it will not be possible to distribute a proprietary app as a jar
<whitequark> ryanf: what about using heredocs and ruby interpolations?
<whitequark> or were you specifically against using ruby interpolations?
<ryanf> I'm specifically against using ruby interpolation
<ryanf> if only because of escaping
<whitequark> ok
<judofyr> ryanf: I was about to say that your email address at http://rynftz.gr/ contained a ligature, but it seems you did it intentionally?
<ryanf> haha
<ryanf> yeah, the link goes to the right place :)
<ryanf> it's a little gratuitous though. I forgot I did that
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<judofyr> yeah, I dunno why I selected the text instead of just right clicking and "copy email"
<whitequark> what about just clicking on the link? :D
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<judofyr> TODO: setup mailto: to point to Gmail
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<whitequark> there's a protocol for it, you know
<whitequark> and chrome supports it
<whitequark> so should FF...
<judofyr> yeah, I'm using FF these days because Chrome on OS X eats swap
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<whitequark> 1-800-EAT-SWAP
<judofyr> it's not using all my memory, but it still has 5GB of swapfiles
<judofyr> (if not more, maybe more is released when I reboot)
<whitequark> I'd guess this is not chrome, but os x's memory management policies
<judofyr> but I quit Chrome and got 5GB back
<judofyr> yeah
<judofyr> or, combination
<whitequark> oses generally evict unused pages to swap, just to have more free ram in case you need some
<whitequark> even if they're not low on memory
<judofyr> well, I have 9GB of swap files
<judofyr> and a 4GB sleep file
<whitequark> and the general consensus around is that os x cannot do ram or filesystem... so I'm not exactly surprised
<judofyr> and this is just a 120GB SSD
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<judofyr> so it's kinda annoying
<judofyr> lets hope that Sea Lion fixes it
<erikh> or network
<whitequark> erikh: :D
<whitequark> but it's shiny
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<erikh> it is
<erikh> it's a very good desktop OS
<whitequark> that depends on your requirements to a desktop OS.
<whitequark> but, for majority it probably is.
<erikh> yes it is a subjective topic
<judofyr> I need some sleep
<erikh> and I totally got puppet running under unicorn today so I give zero fucks about anything else
<whitequark> judofyr: $ sleep 10s
<whitequark> erikh: are you high on unicorns
<erikh> yes
<judofyr> whitequark: aren't you also in UTC+2 or 3 or so?
<whitequark> judofyr: UTC+3
<whitequark> but fuck sleep
<judofyr> s/also//
<whitequark> night is more productive
<judofyr> timezones makes me dizzy. is it 00:00 or 02:00 over there?
<whitequark> there are no neighbors drilling the fucking walls
<judofyr> s/makes/make/
<whitequark> 03:00
<judofyr> but
<judofyr> I'm in UTC+2
<dominikh> that'd be UTC+4
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<dominikh> DST, yo.
<whitequark> dominikh: oh, then russia is UTC+4 now.
<whitequark> like if I give a fuck.
<whitequark> they change it like yearly
<dominikh> oh, russia, the folks who completely fucked up DST even more ;)
<whitequark> it's easier to just set your clock to UTC
<drbrain> dominikh: more than the US?
<drbrain> is that possible?
<dominikh> every russian I ask has no idea what timezone he's in now
<whitequark> ^
<judofyr> tell that to muricah
<dominikh> drbrain: I think they decided to forever stick with it or something
<whitequark> ^
<whitequark> first it was UTC+3 forever, now it is seemingly UTC+4 forever
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<judofyr> whitequark: that was to you: try get the US to switch to UTC
<whitequark> and these morons actually discussed enforcing UTC+4 time on *all of the russian territory*
<judofyr> or Asia for that matter
<judofyr> hah
<havenwood> global timezone... deal with it, some of you have a dark daytime
<whitequark> all these politicians
<judofyr> whitequark: well, at least people will get used to the idea of consistent timezone. should be easier to switch to plain UTC after that
<whitequark> just making work for tzdata maintainers
<judofyr> alright, I'm out
<whitequark> they're probably the most miserable people in the world
<dominikh> judofyr: problem is, russian timezone is terrible terrible for winter now.
<whitequark> dominikh: we have 4 hours of daytime at the peak of winter
<judofyr> ryanf: it was nice talking! I'll report my findings on the controller-view problem.
<whitequark> one hour here or there won't really cut it that much
<dominikh> whitequark: looking forward to increased suicide rates :/
<dominikh> whitequark: one hour is a lot
<whitequark> dominikh: *switching* also drives them up, you know
<whitequark> heart attacks, etc, etc
<ryanf> judofyr: cool, looking forward to hearing more about it
<ryanf> later
<judofyr> whitequark: what's your latitude?
<whitequark> 55.7517° N, 37.6178° E
<dominikh> whitequark: switching between DST and no DST has health implications, yes. switching to a sane constant time zone does not, on the long run :)
<dominikh> whitequark: like, only once, when you switch :)
<whitequark> dominikh: sure
<whitequark> I know
<dominikh> my point is, no DST is great, UTC+4 not so much
<judofyr> Oslo is norther than that :)
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<whitequark> judofyr: Oslo is norther than... most cities
<whitequark> probably :D
<dominikh> my clock situation is great. UTC in my irc client, local timezone (CET/CEST) on computer and desk clock, always GMT+1 on my wrist watch.
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<dominikh> keeps you focussed :>
<whitequark> dominikh: lol
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<judofyr> whitequark: man, the rest of world is so far down
<whitequark> I have local time everywhere, because all of my devices are capable of tracking it on their fucking own
<dominikh> haha
<judofyr> what you're all doing down there?
<whitequark> "local time, so complicated that no mere human can comprehend it"
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<whitequark> and I'm only half joking
<judofyr> alright, NOW I'm leaving
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<erikh> hahah
<dominikh> back in our guild (mmorpg) I was the one who had to explain the battle times to effin everyone :P
<erikh> whitequark: scurred him off
<erikh> dominikh: !
<dominikh> erikh: !
<whitequark> erikh: did what
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<whitequark> oh, !ud helped.
<erikh> hah
<whitequark> also I heard iOS can't DST :P
<erikh> dominikh: just seeing if you've secretly replaced yourself with a cinch bot
<whitequark> dominikh: !help
<erikh> whitequark: I think that's the carrier's problem?
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<whitequark> erikh: no, the problem was that it missed alarms
<erikh> interesting
<whitequark> like three times, with fixes being deployed in between
<erikh> ah
<dominikh> erikh: that's actually a decent idea
<erikh> heh
<whitequark> dominikh: I SAID !HELP
<whitequark> dominikh: REQUESTING REPLY.
<dominikh> whitequark: AM I THE FUCKING POLICE? HELP YOURSELF.
<erikh> IT IS INTERNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY
<erikh> JUST IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW
<dominikh> DAMN RIGHT IT IS
<whitequark> ERIKH: IT TOTALLY IS
<dominikh> IN GERMANY, EVERY DAY IS CAPS LOCK DAY
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<dominikh> *cough*
<erikh> heh
<erikh> IN SOVIET RUSSIA, DAY CAPS LOCKS YOU!
* erikh runs away
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<PSKOSINSKI> CHANGE NICKS TO UPPERCASE AND DON'T SCREAM IN CHAT!!!1one
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<WHITEQUARK> WHY DON'T DO BOTH
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<zenspider> I need to learn erc better... I'm sure it can downcase this shit automatically
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<whitequark> zenspider: erc?
<zenspider> IRC client in emacs
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<zenspider> minitest version 5.0.6 has been released! | software releases by ryan davis - http://blog.zenspider.com/releases/2013/06/minitest-version-5-0-6-has-been-released.html
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<xuser> I just updated to 5.0.5 ;)
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<zenspider> gauntlet version 2.0.2 has been released! | software releases by ryan davis - http://blog.zenspider.com/releases/2013/06/gauntlet-version-2-0-2-has-been-released.html
<zenspider> xuser: it's pretty minor
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