#ruby-lang on 2014-03-27 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2014-02-24 17:12 apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: RIP Jim || Ruby 2.1.1; 2.0.0-p451; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com

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00:19 <Insentience> So I have a parent class A, with children classes B and C

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00:19 <Insentience> parent class has a function that does something, children classes have their own versions of said function

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00:20 <Insentience> i create an instance of A, set it to equal B.new

00:20 <Insentience> then call that function. Will it run B's version of A's

00:20 <Insentience> I expect B's version

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00:40 <wallerdev> Insentience: that question doesnt make much sense haha

00:40 <Insentience> It's alright, I figured it out

00:40 <wallerdev> are you saying you do x = A.new; x = B.new

00:40 <Insentience> I usually end up figuring stuff out when I try to explain it

00:40 <Insentience> No, don't worry about it >.>

00:40 <Insentience> I didn't make much sense haha

00:40 <wallerdev> :p

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01:16 <frank_o> Howdy! At this dummy data file (seeds.rb): https://gist.github.com/frankie-loves-jesus/9797757 -- is there a nice and easy way to make sure the succession of topicN is chronological?

01:17 <frank_o> Right now they're jumping ie. from topic19 to topic110 etc.

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01:18 <wallerdev> order by created_at or something?

01:18 <frank_o> I found https://github.com/dahu/Nexus for Vim but it looks kinda heavy.

01:18 <centrx> Why are you creating 350 variables of that?

01:18 <wallerdev> oh i see

01:18 <frank_o> wallerdev: Just for the text file

01:18 <wallerdev> ordering numbers alphabetically

01:18 <frank_o> centrx: Gonna test this pg_search thing

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01:19 <frank_o> wallerdev: Well sorta. There are also a lot of gaps between the numbers ie. 19 => 110 etc.

01:19 <wallerdev> well yeah because 20 comes alphabetically after 110 ?

01:20 <frank_o> wallerdev: chronologically yeah

01:20 <frank_o> wait 20 after 110 now im confused

01:21 <wallerdev> haha nevermind, i didnt really look closely

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01:21 <frank_o> :P no probs

01:22 <frank_o> this topic numbering doesnt really matter as long as there are no dupes.. im just a bit OCD like that, i want everything to be perfect hehe

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01:23 <frank_o> f the haters calling OCD a weakness this is one of my greatest strengths i cherish it and take pride in it

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01:23 <wallerdev> o.o

01:23 <wallerdev> isnt the definition of OCD something that gets in the way of you living your life

01:25 <frank_o> it is?

01:25 <frank_o> oh well then i dont have OCD :S

01:26 <frank_o> i thought it was like obsessive attention to detail (for some things)

01:26 <frank_o> (the ability to give a complete f about other things otherwise you'll go crazy :P)

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01:32 <whitequark> that's OCPD

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01:33 <frank_o> whitequark: yeah possibly

01:34 <frank_o> whitequark: says here "at the expense of flexibility, openness, and efficiency", i dont like the sound of that though

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01:35 <wallerdev> yeah OCD can be really scary

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01:35 <wallerdev> like a friend of mine thinks that their family will get hurt or die if they dont do specific things a specific way

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01:36 <frank_o> damn

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01:36 <frank_o> reminds me of religion

01:36 <wallerdev> haha

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02:03 <centrx> Reminds me of modern medicine

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02:49 <whitequark> reminds me of life in general

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04:40 <anoldhacker> I've posted a question to https://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/4484730. I would really appreciate it if someone familiar with ruby internals would answer.

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06:29 <pipework> anoldhacker: I've built a form of DCI that's similar to what you describe. Data is wrapped with contextual wrappers which only exist within a certain scope, and then they're lost when the context is finished. I don't foresee anything, but I'm not as intimate with internals.

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09:14 <yorickpeterse> morning

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13:01 <yorickpeterse> woop woop, Swagger docs based on YARD

13:01 <yorickpeterse> plus Markdown support

13:01 <yorickpeterse> that only took 1,5 days

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13:08 <yorickpeterse> "To document controllers using Swagger you have to use the @swagger tag" hihi

13:09 <yorickpeterse> DAMN IT, I should've used @swag instead

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15:20 <whitequark> @yolo

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15:26 * yorickpeterse slaps whitequark a few times

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15:32 <anoldhacker> I have a question for someone familiar with ruby internals @ https://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/4484730. I would really appreciate a response.

15:34 <yorickpeterse> Yes shit could potentially break

15:34 <yorickpeterse> don't fucking redefine operators on global level

15:35 <yorickpeterse> Plus in MRI half of the time it will bypass your code anyway

15:35 <anoldhacker> This is not global. I'm only talking about redefining for Role-type objects.

15:36 <yorickpeterse> Even then I would stay away from re-defining operators such as == and =

15:36 <yorickpeterse> * =~

15:37 <anoldhacker> Wat? Redefining == is extremely common, and not just in the ruby core.

15:38 <yorickpeterse> define "extremely common"

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15:38 <yorickpeterse> It being "common" also doesn't instantly make it a good idea

15:38 <anoldhacker> String, Hash, Array, in the core.

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15:39 <yorickpeterse> Those are the root definitions, not patches that overwrite existing behaviour

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15:39 <yorickpeterse> That is

15:40 <yorickpeterse> String#== is defined once, not hijacked later on by something else

15:40 <yorickpeterse> Personally I find that overwriting #==() is meh

15:41 <whitequark> yorickpeterse: you are deeply confused about #==

15:41 <whitequark> anyway

15:42 <whitequark> anoldhacker: no, nothing in ruby *MRI* *core* will break. but:

15:42 <whitequark> 1) other implementations, notably Rubinius, may depend on those methods

15:42 <whitequark> 2) debugging tools like pry, even on MRI, will break if you redefine those methods.

15:42 <whitequark> so don't do that.

15:42 <yorickpeterse> whitequark: oh yeah totally

15:43 <anoldhacker> I hadn't thought about the debuggers.

15:43 <yorickpeterse> because disagreeing with something means super confused right?

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15:43 <anoldhacker> The docs encourage overwriting #==.

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15:43 <whitequark> yorickpeterse: sometimes.

15:44 <yorickpeterse> whitequark: explain to me how in the above I am deeply confused about #==

15:44 <darix> anoldhacker: why do you want to do it in first place?

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15:44 <anoldhacker> brb

15:45 <whitequark> yorickpeterse: #== by default compares objects by identity. not all domains define comparison as comparison by identity, e.g. if your objects present a functional interface, that's simply pointless.

15:46 <whitequark> and, at the end, Ruby has three comparison methods for a reason: they're intended for different use cases. if you decide to not ever override #== (and I guess #eql?), you're going against that intent.

15:46 <yorickpeterse> That does nothing to state that I'm confused about what #== does. I merely stated that it's dirty (in my opinion) and that MRI would bypass it anyway

15:46 <yorickpeterse> s/state/show

15:46 <yorickpeterse> well, bypass it in most cases

15:46 <whitequark> no, it won't

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15:47 <whitequark> #equal?, yes, it will effectively bypass. but #== and #eql? will be called by MRI appropriately.

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15:47 <yorickpeterse> It will when it starts comparing things in C land and calls the underlying C functions directly

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15:47 <whitequark> such as in which case?

15:47 <yorickpeterse> e.g. if it were to call rb_str_equal() directly instead of going through Ruby

15:48 <yorickpeterse> There's nothing that prevents any C code from doing that

15:48 <whitequark> there's also nothing that prevents any C code from doing rm / -rf. this argument is moot.

15:48 <yorickpeterse> Either way, if you have some custom object then I suppose there's no real harm

15:48 <yorickpeterse> whitequark: haha get out

15:48 <whitequark> by the way, rb_str_equal fallbacks to #==: http://rxr.whitequark.org/mri/source/string.c#2407

15:48 <whitequark> yorickpeterse: don't spread disinformation.

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15:49 <yorickpeterse> it falls back only if the other value is not a string

15:49 <yorickpeterse> at least if I'm grokking the C correctly

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15:49 <whitequark> exactly, and no one talked about overriding String#==

15:49 <whitequark> moreover, String#== *does* override Object#==

15:49 <whitequark> er, redefining String#==.

15:50 <yorickpeterse> Said person posted a snippet, not specifying what to overwrite, merely showing a bunch of common operators that were overwritten

15:50 <anoldhacker> You know, in the old days, we didn't have to interrupt chat to get off the bus...

15:50 <yorickpeterse> So initially I assumed they were going for global patches

15:50 <yorickpeterse> anoldhacker: welcome to #ruby-lang

15:50 <anoldhacker> :)

15:50 <whitequark> yorickpeterse: they did: "wrapper objects"

15:50 <darix> anoldhacker: mosh+tmux|screen+irssi|weechat ;)

15:50 <whitequark> quite explicit in my view

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15:51 <anoldhacker> darix: I'm working on an implementation of DCI.

15:51 <anoldhacker> In this model, objects assume roles in a specific context for the duration of an interaction.

15:51 <whitequark> anoldhacker: have you seen https://gist.github.com/mezis/5595024 and http://dec0de.me/2013/02/dci-performance/ ?

15:51 <yorickpeterse> whitequark: depends on where one would use wrappers

15:52 <whitequark> tl;dr: using DCI in Ruby potentially has a huge performance hit

15:52 <anoldhacker> I have read some of them.

15:52 <anoldhacker> The 2.1 GC will address a chunk of the problem.

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15:53 <anoldhacker> Using 2.1 GC & wrapper objects will make it much, much more reasonable.

15:53 <whitequark> GC... I don't think GC has anything to do with method cache flushing?

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15:53 <whitequark> (but I think charliesome did some work on method cache flushing in 2.1, too)

15:53 <yorickpeterse> #extend no longer flushes everything I believe

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15:54 <yorickpeterse> instead only flushing the class'/module's cache

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15:54 <yorickpeterse> That was added a while ago already though

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15:54 <yorickpeterse> unless it hasn't been merged in yet

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15:54 <anoldhacker> I'm sorry, yes, I mean the method cache.

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15:55 <anoldhacker> The 2.1 method cache only clears the affected class.

15:55 <yorickpeterse> It's still going to have an impact though

15:55 <whitequark> anoldhacker: anyway, bottom line: redefining anything on builtin classes is fraught with error. redefining anything present in Object except #equal? #object_id #__send__ is fine.

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15:56 <anoldhacker> Nope, not looking to redefine on the core classes.

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15:56 <anoldhacker> Apparently, I miscommunicated that.

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15:56 <anoldhacker> I'm overriding for Role, which will be inherited by my wrapper object classes.

15:56 <whitequark> also #__id__, I think. anyway.

15:57 <anoldhacker> Role descends from BasicObject, so __object_id__ is either going to raise or delegate anyway.

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15:58 <whitequark> no, don't do that. this will break introspection by debugging tools.

15:58 <whitequark> (fyi: it's called #__id__ on BasicObject.)

15:58 <anoldhacker> DCI is definitely going to be slower. I believe that the tradeoff is acceptable until a good native implementation is available.

15:59 <anoldhacker> Okay. One of those things that didn't quite make the docs…

15:59 <yorickpeterse> why would Ruby come with native DCI?

15:59 <anoldhacker> I'm saying that that is the only way to eliminate the speed penalty.

15:59 <whitequark> don't expect that to happen

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16:00 <anoldhacker> Nope.

16:00 <anoldhacker> But who knows? If we can get an implementation that has acceptable performance and is not completely broken, it might create demand.

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16:02 <anoldhacker> darix: The challenge for DCI in most OO languages (including Ruby) is that either you have role confusion or an identity crisis. My approach is to attack the identity crisis by redefining the identity operators on my Role objects.

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16:18 <anoldhacker> Those performance metrics are talking about how bad method extension performs. My problem with method extension is that it suffers from role confusion.

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17:19 <spinny128> Howdy folks. Is there a reason why 'gem list' would say a package is installed, but Gem.bin_path says it's not?

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17:21 <apeiros> maybe if the gem doesn't have a bin?

17:21 <apeiros> just a shot in the blue…

17:22 <spinny128> apeiros: unfortunately passenger does

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17:25 <apeiros> spinny128: well, I guess you'll have to provide more details.

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17:30 <spinny128> `gem list | grep passenger ` = 'passenger (4.0.40)'

17:30 <spinny128> /usr/lib/ruby/2.1.0/rubygems/dependency.rb:298:in `to_specs': Could not find 'passenger' (>= 0) among 0 total gem(s) (Gem::LoadError)

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17:30 <havenwood> spinny128: What do you get for?: which gem

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17:31 <spinny128> /usr/bin/gem -> /etc/alternatives/gem -> /usr/bin/gem2.1

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17:34 <havenwood> spinny128: what os/distro are you on?

17:35 <spinny128> havenwood: Ubuntu 12.04

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17:35 <havenwood> spinny128: update-alternatives --config gem

17:36 <spinny128> havenwood: * 2 /usr/bin/gem2.1 180 manual mode

17:36 <havenwood> spinny128: my suspicion is that `update-alternatives --config ruby` is set to one version and `update-alternatives --config gem` another

17:37 <havenwood> spinny128: so you're installing gems for a different ruby than you're using

17:37 <spinny128> havenwood: * 2 /usr/bin/ruby2.1 50 manual mode

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17:39 <spinny128> havenwood: I had to switch to ruby2.1 to install rake (iirc) but I could have installed rack with ruby1.8

17:39 <spinny128> Let me try this again from the top

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18:17 <spinny128> havenwood: Thanks for the suggestion but it didn't fix the issue. I think I know the problem now, it's GEM_PATH. 'gem' respects /etc/gemrc but ruby doesn't and so they have different GEM_PATHS. If I set GEM_PATH in my shell passenger appears to work.

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18:18 <havenwood> spinny128: aha. a nice tool for setting all the env vars correctly to easily switch Rubies is chruby: https://github.com/postmodern/chruby#readme

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19:20 <kirkh> Hello

19:21 <kirkh> Is anyone using ruby on windows? I need some help.

19:22 <Burgestrand> kirkh: I don’t, but the first step to getting help is elaborating on your problem.

19:22 <Burgestrand> kirkh: without a problem, you are unlikely to get a resolution.

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19:23 <kirkh> Right, the problem i have when trying to install a gem I get an error, ERROR: Could not find a valid gem 'sass' (>= 0), here is why: Unable to download data from https://rubygems.org/ - SSL_connect retur ned=1 errno=0 state=SSLv3 read server certificate B: certificate verify failed ( https://s3.amazonaws.com/production.s3.rubygems.org/latest_specs.4.8.gz)

19:23 <kirkh> and this happens to any gem

19:24 <Burgestrand> kirkh: it’s a certificate problem, and happens on other platforms too. Upgrading rubygems, or reinstalling ruby, tend to help in some cases.

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19:25 <kirkh> i just installed ruby....

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19:25 <kirkh> so what do you recommend

19:25 <kirkh> make sure it's a fresh install?

19:25 <Burgestrand> kirkh: I’d try upgrading rubygems, gem update --system I believe is the command

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19:26 <Burgestrand> kirkh: actually, you could also try using "http" instead of "https", which ought to help temporarily if you are looking for a quick (but dirty, and bad for security)

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19:26 <andrewvos> yorickpeterse: #plesentdebate

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19:27 <kirkh> how would i configure to make it work with http instead of gttps?

19:27 <kirkh> https*

19:28 <Burgestrand> kirkh: not sure, gaming atm so don’t have enough time to look :)

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19:30 <kirkh> Nice

19:30 <kirkh> I'm guessing TitanFall :P

19:30 <toretore> --clear-sources --source http://something.rubygems.org perhaps

19:31 <kirkh> ill give that a go

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19:32 <kirkh> I found out my error

19:32 <kirkh> :)

19:32 <kirkh> had to reinstall Ruby

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19:32 <kirkh> first time i forgot to delete previous ruby folder

19:33 <mpgarate> I'm troubleshooting some slow code and am looking for a tool to help figure out what actions are taking the most time. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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19:37 <Burgestrand> mpgarate: perftools.rb

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19:38 <mpgarate> Burgestrand: Checking it out now. Thank you for your help.

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19:41 <toretore> also just -rprofile

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19:53 <spinny128> havenwood: Thanks again for the help. chruby don't quite work for my situtation, but a symbolic link does. I think I'm set. :)

19:54 <spinny128> Ya'all keep your hash rocket pointed the right way

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20:19 <Authenticator> Is there a .stop option for SimpleCov? It's recording coverage for a forked process and I'd like to turn it off in the sub-processes.

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20:55 <drbrain> Authenticator: I'm not seeing such a thing in Coverage which SimpleCov uses

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21:04 <Sigloo> Anyone know of a gem/have any good resources on how to convert the start and end times in an .ical file to the local timezone? I've examined emails from multiple mail clients and there appears to be very little standardization.

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21:42 <goodgame> hi

21:42 <goodgame> a part from websites , what is interesting to do with ruby?

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21:46 <havenwood> goodgame: Dev ops, supercomputing, aerospace, data analysis, machine learning and anything else interesting to do in a general purpose programming language.

21:47 <fowl> you could try writing a game in it, but in the end the gc will make you choose a more sensible solution

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21:49 <goodgame> i mean, for desktop apps we should prefare compiled languages right?

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21:52 <havenwood> goodgame: admittedly Ruby doesn't have the best gui bindings

21:52 macmartine has joined #ruby-lang

21:52 <fowl> gtk is much nicer in ruby

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22:46 <Insentience> http://ideone.com/rYmH9k

22:46 <Insentience> Why is it saying my class variable is uninitialized?

22:47 jhass is now known as jhass|off

22:48 <canton7> where does it say that?

22:48 <Insentience> insert

22:49 <canton7> and where did you instantiate TreeStuff? ;)

22:49 <Insentience> instantiate?

22:49 <Insentience> It's a module, i included it

22:49 <canton7> call TreeStuff.new

22:49 <canton7> so initialize gets run

22:49 <Insentience> sorry, new to ruby

22:49 <Insentience> Ohhh

22:49 <Insentience> that has to happen?

22:49 <canton7> well it aint gonna call itself

22:50 <Insentience> undefined method treestuff.new

22:50 <Insentience> Are you sure I need to call new on a module?

22:50 <canton7> are you sure want code in a module's initialize method

22:51 <Insentience> Yeah, probably

22:51 <canton7> (also, in ruby, it's 'to_s', not 'toString')

22:51 <canton7> and the answer to my last question is "no, since you can't instantiate modules

22:51 <Insentience> I know about 'to_s', I do no intend to use that function

22:51 <Insentience> Also can you not answer in riddles please? I'm new to ruby so I won't get the jokes you are making

22:52 <canton7> I'm trying to ask questions to make you think

22:52 <havenwood> Insentience: My advise would be to never ever use @@class_variables, just pretend they don't exist.

22:52 <canton7> there's that, as well

22:52 <Insentience> Ok, I won't use class variables. Should I just call it @top?

22:53 <canton7> much better

22:53 <canton7> but still, you need to assign a value to it somewhere

22:53 <canton7> where are you going to do that?

22:53 <Insentience> Which is what i'm doing in the module

22:53 <canton7> in a method which you *never call*

22:53 <Insentience> oh right, i'm redefining it

22:53 <Insentience> whoops

22:54 <canton7> the initialize method is called when you run 'SomeType.new'. the 'new' method calls the 'initialize' method

22:55 <Insentience> I see

22:55 <Insentience> alright, anotehr thing taht has boggled my mind

22:55 <Insentience> http://ideone.com/rYmH9k

22:56 <Insentience> line 14

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22:56 <Insentience> Nil::nilclass or something like that

22:56 <Insentience> I don't understand

22:57 <apeiros> >> nil.call_a_method_on_nil

22:57 <eval-in> apeiros => undefined method `call_a_method_on_nil' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/127858)

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22:57 <apeiros> you tried to call a method on nil, and nil doesn't respond to that method you're calling.

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22:58 <Insentience> Oh

22:59 <Insentience> Wait, I don't see how I'm doing that

22:59 <havenwood> Insentience: `@rootNode.treeItem` is the `nil` not `@rootNode` (and snake_case not headlessCamelCase)

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22:59 <Insentience> How is treeItem nil?

23:00 <Insentience> It is initialized properly

23:00 <apeiros> Insentience: I can't read your mind.

23:00 <Insentience> Sorry, I'll post code

23:00 <havenwood> Insentience: maybe try a `p @rootNode` and `p @rootNode.treeItem` in the code and see which is `nil`.

23:01 <apeiros> havenwood: well, the exception names the method

23:01 <Insentience> I mean, I'm already testing if rootNode is nill

23:01 <apeiros> so it can easily be deducted which one is nil

23:01 <Insentience> nil

23:01 <apeiros> also that

23:01 <havenwood> well, yeah, i know which it is, i said

23:01 <Insentience> undefined method '<'

23:01 <Insentience> what

23:01 <Insentience> wait

23:02 <Insentience> I'm using the spaceship operator somewhere

23:02 <Insentience> does that mean anything

23:02 <havenwood> just trying to help lead him to the answer >.>

23:02 <apeiros> Insentience: "somewhere", "anything"

23:02 <apeiros> yes, it certainly means something

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23:02 <Insentience> http://ideone.com/rYmH9k

23:03 <havenwood> him/her*

23:03 <apeiros> sounds like your compareTo returned nil

23:03 <apeiros> and <=> generally returns nil if you try to compare incomparable values

23:03 <havenwood> aha

23:03 <apeiros> >> "hi" <=> 2

23:03 <eval-in> apeiros => nil (https://eval.in/127865)

23:03 <Insentience> >> "abc" <=> "bcd"

23:03 <eval-in> Insentience => -1 (https://eval.in/127866)

23:04 <apeiros> havenwood: ok. sorry.

23:04 <Insentience> Well they are strings

23:04 <Insentience> correction

23:04 <Insentience> They are not strings, but I want them to be strings

23:04 <Insentience> for example

23:04 * apeiros goes to bed

23:04 <Insentience> the object can be created with an int stored, but I want to compare them like strings

23:04 <havenwood> apeiros: naw, my socratic method was fail anyways cause looks like i guessed wrong anyways :O

23:04 <Insentience> >> "hi" <=> "2"

23:04 <eval-in> Insentience => 1 (https://eval.in/127868)

23:04 <Insentience> like that

23:05 <apeiros> havenwood: well, I usually try to lead people to the answer too. I guess I was just too tired.

23:05 <Insentience> do i have to 'cast' the int to a string when i call .new(int) ?

23:05 <apeiros> s/was/am/

23:05 <apeiros> Insentience: Integer#to_s

23:05 <apeiros> ruby doesn't have casting

23:05 <apeiros> but many objects know how to return a representation of a different class.

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23:07 <apeiros> hm, that said, I guess the term 'casting' isn't defined strictly at all, so maybe one can even use that

23:07 <apeiros> anyway, off to bed now

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23:08 <havenwood> apeiros: g'night!

23:08 <Insentience> thank you fore the help apeiros

23:08 <apeiros> n8

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23:24 <dnajd> Using Daemon.call, but it's blocking. even though docs say "will return immediately after spawning the daemon"

23:25 <dnajd> I want to thread off a daemon and keep it running in the background.. detached from the terminal

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23:32 <soahccc> dnajd: I have done a daemon once and used the daemonds gem which has Daemons.call, would that be a solution? http://daemons.rubyforge.org/

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23:40 <drbrain> soahccc: Process.daemon (it's built-in now)

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23:41 <soahccc> cool, I should keep up with the changelog

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23:45 <drbrain> soahccc: ah, daemons gem does more than Process.daemon

23:45 <drbrain> confusing

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23:45 <soahccc> yeah I needed the wrapper stuff, it does more or less everything

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23:47 <dnajd> soahcc: I am using Daemons.call (hoping it would create the pid and carry on), but it's blocking

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