<jerome__>
ok zendeavor and bobajett... i have read this...
<zendeavor>
jerome__: if using rvm: rvm install ruby-1.9.3-tv1_9_3_0
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<jerome__>
so... do you know if it is possible to really install and be able to use wxruby on osx10.6.8 ?
<jerome__>
(arch i386)
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<jerome__>
using rvm not works, because it try connect the same server who is broken
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<zendeavor>
jerome__: that rvm command is straight from the rvm head developer. it works.
<jerome__>
use gem is same...
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<jerome__>
no, rvm install 1.9.3 not works, sure
<zendeavor>
that's not the command i gave you...
<jerome__>
first he is connected to one server rvm... and search the good package... then, i has a redirection (maybe) on the server where is the ruby-1.9.3-p448, but this server not works.
<zendeavor>
jerome__: if using rvm: rvm install ruby-1.9.3-tv1_9_3_0
<zendeavor>
*exactly* like that
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<bobajett>
so PP.pp has a signature of pp(obj, out=$>, width=79)
<jerome__>
coyo, i send it. Now i m reading the instruction on the link popi send to me (tha,ks popi)
<popl>
18:36 < popl> jerome__: /msg nickserv help
<coyo>
is how you do it
<coyo>
no problem.
<popl>
it helps if the intended pays attention. :)
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<coyo>
not everyone has perfect attention span ^__^
<coyo>
ruby is a great language for people who are attention-span challenged :D
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<popl>
heh
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<coyo>
it's why i suggest it to other artists
<jerome__>
sure... not everyone was born perfect...
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<popl>
whatever
<coyo>
many of my artist friends do not have the ability to focus on programming, especially low-level programming, for very long.
<coyo>
aww, releasy seems to have been abandoned.
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<popl>
then practice
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<popl>
that's all that's required
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<jerome__>
i do low-level assembly on micro-controler... no problem with that.
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<popl>
seems to me you're just rationalizing bad practices
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<jerome__>
Is something think about himself that can go in the moon quick more than other ? no... it will not be serious.
<jerome__>
humility is a really good practice.
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<pontiki>
awesome jerome__
<jerome__>
so gentlemen, thanks a lot for your help (really, i make an other walk ahead)
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<pontiki>
*sigh*
<pontiki>
always only gentlemen
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<mootpointer>
pontiki: Yeah, that's a thing...
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<zendeavor>
grammatically speaking, the male form is used when referring to someone whose gender is not known at time of writing, instead of him/her his/hers (since 'theirs' is explicitly incorrect when referring to an individual)
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<zendeavor>
but that's about possessive pronouns
<zendeavor>
and company
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<popl>
zendeavor: we live in a patriarchal society :P
<zendeavor>
sure, it just happened to bleed into grammatical constructs as well
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<bnagy>
zendeavor: yeah I disagree pretty strongly with that
<zendeavor>
this doesn't necessarily apply to "gentleman" but still
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<bnagy>
they is perfectly fine as a gender neutral construction, although slightly tortured - ie you could probably always rephrase to avoid it
<bnagy>
but it's absolutely preferred to 'he' for unknown gender
<jerome__>
so, i'm not english. I m really happy to learn. So, that's why i accept some critics. and a good critic comes with the right use to... So, what is the correct use ?
<zendeavor>
bnagy: well, it's what my english rules textbooks taught me; should i qualify it with "according to my primary education?"
<bnagy>
jerome__: just don't say 'gentlemen' - use 'everyone' or something
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<bnagy>
zendeavor: sounds like it, or 'according to XYZ'
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<zendeavor>
okay, consider it amended.
<jerome__>
and also, my volonty wasn't to distrub this irc channel with correct or not use of english grammar, but just to said that humility is a good way of life (this is the message in fact, i'm sorry the form unplug the sens of it)
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<zendeavor>
jerome__: you're doing fine, there's no need to ackowledge these inane rules as long as you get the point across
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<jerome__>
thank you
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<zendeavor>
as a matter of sensitivity, do not assume the entire community is male by thanking the "gentlemen" and you're done. use a gender-neutral construct as bnagy suggests like "everyone"
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<crucify_me>
hi I'm working on rails but wanted to get people's opinions on it OR should I just try to master Ruby. some such as bna*gy don't like rails (or using it) I wonder if he/she has a point. I'm new to programming but want to be marketable and really enjoy ruby. thanks
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<fryguy>
crucify_me: if you want to program rails, then program rails
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<popl>
crucify_me: don't let people tell you what to do
<popl>
crucify_me: if you want to do something then do it
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<crucify_me>
I don't know if I *want* to or not. I need to be hired eventually so need to consider that
<zendeavor>
as devil's advocate - crucify_me ew rails booooo learn real programming pfft
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<crucify_me>
zendeavor: please elaborate thanks
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<crucify_me>
ewww!
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<fryguy>
crucify_me: if you need to get a job, then just learn whatever and get a job
<fryguy>
it's not hard
<popl>
well
<popl>
arguably
<crucify_me>
fryguy: popl keep talking....
<bnagy>
learning to actually program is a transferrable skill
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<zendeavor>
the problem with monolithic frameworks such as rails is that it abstracts away (or in some cases simply introduces indirections) that hide details away from the programmer which would be extremely valuable when rails is not part of the equation
<bnagy>
learning rails is not
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<zendeavor>
that's the long and short of it.
<jerome__>
ok zendeavor, i will do that :"write every one" and not "gentlemen". Sure, i'm not sexist, so i will be very happy to do it.
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<zendeavor>
there's nothing wrong with rails, per se. but there is something wrong with learning rails before ruby proper.
<crucify_me>
bnagy: that's the thing I was happier studying ruby. zendeavor well I did go through an entire ruby book but feel like I'm still lost in the wild
<zendeavor>
you will be lost until you start writing sufficiently complex programs and learn how to employ the tools
<zendeavor>
just like you'd probably use `for' loops, coming from languages other than ruby
<zendeavor>
in ruby, those are pretty well invalidated
<jerome__>
cricfy_me, i just try to use rails (and understand it). So... my first opinion is that there is a lot of pub on it (like it is the really best of the best... blablabla). And also, that it is not so easy and clear in the first step (i'm on it).
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<pontiki>
rails is the best at what it is
<pontiki>
but not everything needs it
<zendeavor>
you have to actively *apply* the knowledge you learned from the books in order to be _skilled_
<zendeavor>
until then, you're just an academic
<pontiki>
and not every component of rails is the best there is in that class; again, largely depending on need for use
<crucify_me>
zendeavor: I came from English Literature no programming background at all.
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<lewis>
hmm
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<pontiki>
hmm
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<pontiki>
is programming the only sort of thing people think will guarantee them a job and an income? or are there other things like that as well?
<lewis>
pontiki: programming doesnt guarantee an income
<pontiki>
exactly
<lewis>
pontiki: but relative to others jobs I agree
<pontiki>
but so many people seem to think if they learn to program, they'll get hired
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<crucify_me>
pontiki: good call. lewis
<crucify_me>
I do have a job ^
<pontiki>
i'm actually asking the question i'm asking. i'm not making a point...
<lewis>
pontiki: far from it, I wish
<bnagy>
pontiki: well it's pretty strongly correlated with getting a job as a programmer
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<pontiki>
which actually isn't the question i asked
<crucify_me>
I have the time to learn something and I'm pretty excited by this.
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<pontiki>
crucify_me: that is awesome. i love this stuff. i do it for fun, for free, and for pay.
<bnagy>
most of the highyl skilled vocational degrees will give you a very good chance of constant employment
<lewis>
pontiki: so do i. who doesn't love it
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<bnagy>
lawyer, doctor, engineer ...
<pontiki>
lewis: i know lots of devs that hate what they do.
<lewis>
bnagy: i agree but not for engineers
<pontiki>
ah, yes, bnagy -- i think you are right
<lewis>
pontiki: do they work at microsoft
<bnagy>
engineer is like lawyer - you can probably always find work, just maybe not in that exact field
<pontiki>
go to med school and you'll be guaranteed employment as a doctor is the myth
<sam113101>
I think I'm going to become a programmer and hate it
<lewis>
bnagy: I disagree, I know struggling engineers out there
<fryguy>
go anywhere and be guaranteed employment is a myth
<fryguy>
engineer, lawyer, doctor, whatever
<zendeavor>
guaranteed employment is a myth fullstop
<pontiki>
fryguy: i think the only thing that really used to apply to is nursing. but no longer
<lewis>
zendeavor: exatly
<fryguy>
if you are a good <insert name of profession here> then you are basically guaranteed jobs, but just being a member of some profession doesn't guarantee you shit
<pontiki>
^ fryguy
<lewis>
nothing guarantee you shit
<lewis>
the only guarantee thing in life is death
<crucify_me>
uh oh
<pontiki>
there's the old joke: "What do you call the person who graduated at the bottom of their class in med school?"
<pontiki>
"Doctor"
<crucify_me>
:)
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<crucify_me>
zendeavor: 's remark is what concerns me the most: you will be lost until you start writing sufficiently complex programs and learn how to employ the tools
<fryguy>
crucify_me: you don't magically learn to program by reading a book or 2
<zendeavor>
crucify_me: just like you'll be lost in the English world until you start writing essays and critiques of existing papers
<crucify_me>
I need to move past name = "Joe Smoe"
<zendeavor>
and publish your own papers
<zendeavor>
until then, you're just an academic
<fryguy>
you also don't magically learn to program by picking a high level dynamic language and avoiding low-level concepts.
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<fryguy>
you need to learn "how to program". period. not "how to program in <insert list of parameters here>"
<sam113101>
can you consider yourself a programmer even though you've never done any kind of manual memory management, low level stuff, etc.?
<fryguy>
sam113101: I personally don't think so. you need to at least understand that sort of stuff
<Nilium>
Probably, but it would mean you're a pretty limited programmer.
<fryguy>
it might also be a matter of seniority, as Nilium suggests
<crucify_me>
well I'm learning postgresql
<bnagy>
sam113101: absolutely you can
<crucify_me>
bnagy: sam113101 please elaborate this is what I need to hear
<Nilium>
For example, I know a handful of web developers, most couldn't tell me the difference between malloc, calloc, alloca, and so on (could probably guess realloc though), but they're still programmers.
<bnagy>
manual memory management is just hard, and so people think they're badass because they looked at it
<bnagy>
but it really has nothing to do with programming
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<bnagy>
there are lots of compsci guys doing totally insane stuff in HLLs
<Nilium>
Well, it's resource management, which plays a pretty big role in programming
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<bnagy>
crap
<Nilium>
It's less that memory is the issue and more that you should probably know about the kinds of resources you're using.
<crucify_me>
some people told me to learn machine language and I thought geez that is nuts
<zendeavor>
understanding the lower-level implications of your high-level programs is important, whether you have done memory management manually or not
<Nilium>
The hell do they think machine language is?
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<bnagy>
well it doesn't _hurt_ to learn some assembly
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<zendeavor>
not a bit
<Nilium>
But which ASM?
<pontiki>
depends
<bnagy>
but it's really just to get another perspective
<sam113101>
go for x86
<bnagy>
x86 is a terrible choice
<pontiki>
EPI is a rather drastic instruction
<bsdbandit>
anyone using haml ?
<sam113101>
how so?
<pontiki>
HCF is too
<bnagy>
unless you need it
<Nilium>
I can do ARM and some x86 ASM, but I don't see much point in doing it these days.
<fryguy>
bsdbandit: yes
<pontiki>
bsdbandit: i use haml
<zendeavor>
i disagree with anyone who says you have to know how to manage memory efficiently in order to be a programmer
<bnagy>
it's a butt ugly assembly and it overcomplicated
<pontiki>
it's my preferred templating lang
<Nilium>
Well, certain kinds of ARM ASM.
<bnagy>
I'd learn ARM, as a learning exercise
<bnagy>
arm is byoootiful
<pontiki>
PIC would be fun
<bnagy>
well.. used to be
<bnagy>
before thumb :(
<Nilium>
I recommend learning x86 first and then trying ARM so you can appreciate the difference.
<Nilium>
Otherwise you'll learn ARM first and then give up on x86 ASM because it sucks in comparison
<Nilium>
Using it sucks, that is.
<bsdbandit>
are there any good haml resources ?
<fryguy>
bsdbandit: the haml website itself has full documentation
<pontiki>
haml.info
<crucify_me>
but if I first learned basic ruby as my first endeavor in CS, aside from continuing with ruby I should just jump to assembly?
<sam113101>
no
<bnagy>
so the bit where I agree with Nilium is "you should probably know about the kinds of resources you're using"
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<bsdbandit>
ok
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<bnagy>
so some grasp of time / space tradeoffs, some grasp of the order or algorithms
<crucify_me>
bnagy: whaddya mean
<bsdbandit>
yeah im a python coder looking to use only ruby for webdevelopment
<bsdbandit>
right now im learning sinatra
<sam113101>
crucify_me: learn ruby, get good at it, then learn something lower level like C, get good at it, then learn assembly for your favorite architecture
<bnagy>
like, is this roughly order n^2 or log(n) or ...
<zendeavor>
you really just should be aware of the low-level implications and account for them where more efficiency is required
<zendeavor>
man i can't join the damn conversation because of this stupid lag
<pontiki>
crucify_me: the elements of programming are actually not the language itself. it's like learning English by only knowing something is a noun, verb, preposition and only knowing how to string them together to get correct syntax and grammar
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<pontiki>
the elements of programming, like the elements of English, are the *meanings* - the semantics
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<crucify_me>
sam113101: yeah that is my mind: to just MASTER ruby so I can dream in a single language. pontiki good analogy
<fryguy>
crucify_me: and sometime early on, read/do SICP
<Nilium>
And you could liken patterns to cliches.
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<pontiki>
IOW: algorithms and data structures, and how to use them to solve problems
<pontiki>
Nilium: except in this case, we *like* cliches
<crucify_me>
Nilium: keep talking this is how I learn
<Nilium>
Well, some people do.
<Nilium>
I've seen more harm done than good by people who obsess over patterns.
<pontiki>
ah, yes, i can see that
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<Nilium>
That said, that's not a problem with patterns.
<pontiki>
but you can apply that equally to people who do everything in a patternless way
<Nilium>
That's just a problem with someone getting a new hammer and seeing all the nails.
<pontiki>
yes, it's a problem with knowing... well there
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<pontiki>
nice cliche, that :)
<Nilium>
CLICHES!
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<bnagy>
I really think that telling people to learn C is an awful idea
<Nilium>
Also, I always feel bad about not being better about my knowledge of algorithms.
<Nilium>
I prefer to tell people to learn C++.
<pontiki>
bnagy: C is still quite essential
<Nilium>
Then learn C.
<bnagy>
but hey. I'm in infosec, guarantees me a job for life :D
<bnagy>
pontiki: how is it 'essential'?
<pontiki>
right up until it doesn't
<zendeavor>
Nilium: so they can appreciate how much nicer C is in comparison just like ARM vs x86 asm?
<zendeavor>
;p
<Nilium>
zendeavor: Basically.
<sam113101>
xD
<bnagy>
pontiki: as long as there are lots of programmers writing C it does
<pontiki>
linux kernel, drivers, low level performance speed ups
<Nilium>
Also, really, C++ will cover most of what C will and it's got better typing.
<bnagy>
pontiki: and are those things 'essential' to being a programmer?
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<pontiki>
oh, not at all
<bnagy>
how many people are required to work on, say, drivers?
<zendeavor>
one
<zendeavor>
one guy
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<zendeavor>
one peoples.
<crucify_me>
you people are funny.
<pontiki>
just that "telling people to learn C is an awful idea" isn't always
<crucify_me>
so hey I'm just going to master Ruby and bail on rails. I hate looking at html
<bnagy>
it's always an awful idea to tell people that
<Nilium>
Telling anyone that learning anything is an awful idea is bullshit, in general.
<pontiki>
but "C is still essential" != "C is still essential for everyone to know"
<zendeavor>
i insist that people learn C
<bnagy>
it is not anawful idea for people to learn C in every case
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<pontiki>
if someone came up to and said "I want to learn to hack the linux kernel" you say it was a bad idea to tell them to learn C?
<zendeavor>
C is a great primer for understand the low-level implications of the other languagesyou'll be happily employing
<bnagy>
no I would tell them it is a bad idea to work on the linux kernel
<pontiki>
i think everyone should learn Lisp
<bnagy>
those guys are batshit
<pontiki>
as a first language
<pontiki>
before their native tongue, in fact
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<Nilium>
I think everyone should learn Scheme, in a more specific fanboyism moment than pontiki.
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<pontiki>
bnagy: the kernel folks are definitely out there in the science fiction land of CS
<fryguy>
that's what SICP is for
* Nilium
mutters something about "down with common lisp"
<pontiki>
oh, i'm agnostic on Lisp
<zendeavor>
Nilium: fangirlism
<pontiki>
i learned it before CL or Scheme
<Nilium>
Well, if I were female it'd be fangirlism.
<crucify_me>
<< see moniker
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<Nilium>
Crucifying takes effort.
<crucify_me>
!!
<zendeavor>
SICP is also the greatest, i watch the lectures every year just because
<zendeavor>
...
<Nilium>
Just like crucify yourself and I'll say I did it
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<crucify_me>
so.... Ruby sans Rails it is !
<sam113101>
I hate web dev
<pontiki>
crucify_me: actually, yes
<sevenseacat>
web dev is awesome.
<sam113101>
it's not
<pontiki>
i <3 web dev
<pontiki>
sam113101: then don't do it!
<pontiki>
if you do something you hate, and i mean hate as opposed to find difficult, you'll never be satisfied
<pontiki>
because then life is a huge compromise
<pontiki>
in which you got the short stick
<crucify_me>
I'm just looking for a good job among intelligent people who skateboard
<pontiki>
dude
<pontiki>
skateboard shop
<Nilium>
I'm not a fan of web dev, so I don't do it, and then I post complaints on Twitter about how all the job openings are for web developers
<bnagy>
seems legit
<fryguy>
crucify_me: if you are doing engineering just to get a good job out of it you are most likely going to fail
<Nilium>
You can be like dogtown 2.0. It's like web 2.0 but you'll die in 6 years.
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<Nilium>
fryguy: I've seen a lot of those sorts of folks.
<sevenseacat>
so have i
<Nilium>
Mostly through the CS program I used to be in.
<pontiki>
seems like everyone i know who is at teh top of this game does development out of love
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<Nilium>
I just treat programming like puzzles because puzzles are fun.
<pontiki>
and they are freaking PASSIONATE about it
<pontiki>
and want others to be just as passionate
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<Nilium>
And want to destroy the unbelieve- wait, no.
<pontiki>
oh gosh, Nilium -- i used that exact metaphor in a recent post
<pontiki>
Ia Ia
<pontiki>
Cthulium
<Nilium>
I've tried to stop telling people they should program because they love programming. It never gets through to the people who don't already believe it.
<Nilium>
Iä Shub-Niggurath! Iä Shub-Niggurath! etc.
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<Nilium>
I figure if you have to pick a deity, might as well pick the black goat of the woods.
<sevenseacat>
crucify_me: though tbh you havent learnt much rails.
<pontiki>
crucify_me: how is that possible?
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<crucify_me>
sevenseacat: I know I've never even looked at html before so its a cluster f$*k
<sevenseacat>
well html isnt rails
<crucify_me>
I know but I need to know how it works or just stare at it and type it
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<pontiki>
humm
<crucify_me>
pontiki but you seem on the fence what's your slant?
<pontiki>
so, if you're going to do web dev, it probaby should go without saying one should learn HTML first?
<sam113101>
I'd suggest you learn ruby fully before moving to rails, then at least be able to do static websites
<Nilium>
HTML's easy to learn. The annoying part is CSS.
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<pontiki>
yes, but CSS you can learn in cascades :)))
<Nilium>
:|
<pontiki>
by which i mean incrementally
<Nilium>
That pun could wake the dead.
<pontiki>
recognizing there is a difference between knowing enough to produce something workable, and knowing enough to knock the socks off the client
<crucify_me>
pontiki: word
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<sevenseacat>
css is fun
<sevenseacat>
being able to turn some designer's psd into a shiny working response semantic etc. website is awesome
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<bnagy>
... if that's what you're into
<bnagy>
;)
<pontiki>
honestly, though? i don't really think I know enough about being a true beginner at this whole thing to know how someone else should learn it
<pontiki>
i've been writing software since the first moon landing
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<sevenseacat>
ive been involved in web development for about fifteen years now, its what im into :p
<pontiki>
yeah
<bnagy>
pontiki: uh... "first" moon landing?
<Nilium>
I've only been doing this for about ten years -- mostly as a hobby -- and I've completely forgotten what it was like to even start to learn programming. Makes it weird when people ask me what they should do to start.
<pontiki>
1969, Gnubie
<pontiki>
dammit
<pontiki>
1969 bnagy
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<RubyPanther>
_why's (poignant) guide is the "right way" IMO
<pontiki>
i haven't read that, i probably should
<sevenseacat>
i didnt like that guide
<pontiki>
i liked learn you a haskell for great good
<sevenseacat>
that was a good book
<RubyPanther>
I learned using the "type it in and modify later" system, though. In BASIC. So I'm probably damaged.
<crucify_me>
pontiki: ??
<pontiki>
crucify_me: what?
<bnagy>
pontiki: yeah, I know when the moon landing was :) Just wondering when the other ones were :)
<crucify_me>
learn you a haskell?
<zendeavor>
RubyPanther: yup, BASIC is as damaging as php ;]
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<bnagy>
BASIC is awesome
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<zendeavor>
crucify_me: google it?
<Nilium>
There are too many BASICs to make a blanket statement about 'em.
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<crucify_me>
zendeavor: ok its actually a book title
<pontiki>
um, apollo 12 later in 69, 13 was a bust, 14, 15 in '71, 16, 17 in '72
<crucify_me>
pontiki: you were alive in 69?
<pontiki>
crucify_me: i was
<crucify_me>
pontiki: I was too. eight years
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<pontiki>
11 years
<pontiki>
well, turned 12
<crucify_me>
pontiki: excellent
<pontiki>
but i mean 11 at the first moon landing
<pontiki>
and wrote a lunar lander in basic :)
<crucify_me>
yeah got it
<bnagy>
pontiki: well there you go
<bnagy>
that's a glaring gap in my history fixed o_0
<pontiki>
my brother dragged me to summer school because he wanted some calculations for his model rockets
<pontiki>
i was better at maths
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<crucify_me>
what is the big deal about Why's Poignant ?
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<pontiki>
my understanding is the whimsy of it makes learning ruby more fun
<pontiki>
and it makes no assumptions about prior knowledge, supposedly
<bnagy>
it has good bits about reflection and metaprogramming
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<crucify_me>
cool
<bnagy>
but it is pretty much insane
<bnagy>
but in an endearing way
<crucify_me>
but does it go to any depth? it seems like its pretty short...
<bnagy>
there are lots of parts
<pontiki>
and the disappearnce of _why lends to its mystery
<pontiki>
you don't need volume to get deep
<pontiki>
i am really appreciating shorter books these days when they're also deep
<crucify_me>
ok its on my list
<pontiki>
i really loved Metaprogramming Ruby -- but i would hardly recommend it as an early book
<Nilium>
Speaking of short, deep books, Programming Pearls is still excellent, though not specific to Ruby.
<pontiki>
Yus!
<crucify_me>
pontiki well the one book I read is Well Grounded Rubyist and bits of Eloquent Ruby
<pontiki>
at 250 pp, Programming Pearls is the right lenght
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<pontiki>
crucify_me: i haven't read the first; the second is awesome
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<crucify_me>
here's the thing. I'm not even at a level when I can flesh out the truncated listings....
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<crucify_me>
pontiki: ^
<crucify_me>
in Eloquent ^
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<pontiki>
crucify_me: sorry if you have already said this, have you written code yet?
<pontiki>
ruby code, i mean
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<sam113101>
lawl
<Nilium>
I find it suspicious when a company has a code of ethics that's seven pages long in small print.
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<crucify_me>
pontiki: just from the books. I write examples, use irb/pry, try to get a bigger picture. now I'm learning rails via the ryanBigg book, writing the tests, etc.
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<pontiki>
yeah, sounds good, crucify_me
<pontiki>
when all that's needed is "Don't Be a Jerk"
<crucify_me>
pontiki: but you're a rails guy right? I couldn't tell about 40 mins ago.
<pontiki>
oh
<pontiki>
crucify_me: i would say i am a tool maker and collector
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<pontiki>
i don't consider myself a "rails gal" or a "ruby gal" or anything like that
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<pontiki>
these are tools
<crucify_me>
you like rails and get into it though?
<pontiki>
they have appropriate and inappropriate uses
<pontiki>
i do
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<pontiki>
but i'm also using sinatra and delving into backbone.js, and node.js with express as well
<pontiki>
what i like to do more than anything is learn how to use stuff, and then use it
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<crucify_me>
cool pontiki many thanks. I guess I'm just frustrated and overwhelmed and I *do* want a new job soon. I live near silicon valley.
<pontiki>
rails 2 and 3 were getting to be rather monolithic things; with rails 4 i think we're going to step more away from that. near the end of 3 people were starting to modularize applications, break things into services and the like
<pontiki>
there's a lot of competition in the valley
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<pontiki>
but there's also *tons* of opportunity
<pontiki>
i leved there for nearly 30 years
<pontiki>
wait.. sorry, 25 years
<crucify_me>
pontiki: well I'd love to live in Europe as well. Scandinavia perhaps
<pontiki>
yes
<pontiki>
if i were younger, i'd love to emmigrate to melbourne
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<crucify_me>
so pontiki I should just keep slogging through rails.? I bought the dang book
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<pontiki>
humm
<bnagy>
pontiki: sorry we can't help you, but there's a nice island off PNG you might like
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<pontiki>
Ryan's book is awesome
<pontiki>
lol bnagy
<pontiki>
and again, i haven't *really* got the perspective for this
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<crucify_me>
pontiki: why lol
<pontiki>
but if i were just starting, i'd find his book overwhelming
<pontiki>
i think
<pontiki>
and just start doing things in ruby
<pontiki>
little things
<sevenseacat>
i miss melbourne
<pontiki>
learning how it all works
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<pontiki>
with nothing huge in mind
<crucify_me>
yeah it moves too fast: then you do this, then this then this.
<pontiki>
but i don't have the pressing need to find employment, either
<sevenseacat>
well do you want it to hammer on the same example route for a hundred pages?
<pontiki>
but no book, ever, is going to give you enough to know how to do something
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<pontiki>
sevenseacat: i think radar's book is fabulous
<crucify_me>
sevenseacat: I'm not criticizing it at all, it's just a bit overwhelming at this stage
<pontiki>
i just wouldn't give it to someone learning to program for the first time
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<sevenseacat>
oh neither would i, but i would give it to someone with a background in programming who wanted to pick up rails.
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<pontiki>
as i wouldn't set them a task to write a web app either
<pontiki>
yup yup
<sevenseacat>
if someone was starting to learn web dev i'd tell them to get a solid foundation in html first, make stuff up statically, then make it dynamic
<sevenseacat>
but no-one wants to learn with static stuff
<pontiki>
no one wants to do the wax on, wax off
<pontiki>
they all want to go straight to the tourney
<sevenseacat>
yep
<sevenseacat>
i am just old enough to get that reference :P
<pontiki>
sorry
<jerome__>
i'm going back here...
<pontiki>
i have all these cultural references
<pontiki>
and make metaphors alla time
<sevenseacat>
all good lol
<crucify_me>
got it sensei
<jerome__>
whith my problem with wxruby (sorry, on this channeml, there is only 1 people, but in fact, noone)
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<pontiki>
it was awful for me at this last job; i had a young padawan who was the most awesome young programmer
<jerome__>
i arrived install with rvm a source ruby-1.9.3-p448 (ouf !)
<pontiki>
but still needed to learn things about working with teams, working with management, ec
<jerome__>
it was special use with --download 2 link and all so...
<jerome__>
BUT
<pontiki>
and all my metaphors were met by :|
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<pontiki>
jerome__: have you got a working ruby?
<jerome__>
the bad news is that wxruby-2.0.1-darwin....gem is installed but nor works
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<jerome__>
yes
<jerome__>
ruby works
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<pontiki>
YAY! **\o/**
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<jerome__>
because of my arch is i386, i need to do special terminal code for call ruby...
<pontiki>
consider today a victory
<jerome__>
arch i386 ruby -rubygems file.rb
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<pontiki>
hmm
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<jerome__>
i hope a victory is to see it works great
<jerome__>
yes, and i try to install it with dual arch like i see somewhere on internet... but command seems to works, but not... reinstall with two arch make an error .
<jerome__>
so... please pontiki...
<jerome__>
do you now wher i can find an universal package of ruby-1.9.3 who works prety fine ?
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<pontiki>
nope
<jerome__>
rooo...
<pontiki>
it looks like there has been no development on wxruby since 2009
<jerome__>
so far
<jerome__>
which gui did you use ?
<pontiki>
i seem to be experiencing deja vu
<jerome__>
before, i used fox 16 (Fxruby)
<pontiki>
i do not like GUIs
<jerome__>
wow...
<pontiki>
i try to avoid them if at all possible
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<jerome__>
it is a choice. but why ?
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<pontiki>
they make me remove my hands from the keyboard too often
<pontiki>
and disrupt my train of thought and flow of action
<nycjv321>
Is it possible to concat aliases in YAML? e.g. a: *b *c # this doesn't seem to work
<jerome__>
that is what is search for...
<nycjv321>
jerome__: me?
<pontiki>
what is what search is for?
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<jerome__>
no, pontiki
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* nycjv321
express relief
<pontiki>
i don't understand, jerome__
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<pontiki>
nycjv321: i don't know - but you might hit up yaml.org?
<jerome__>
GUI is an interface from human to computer... and for all noobs, it is great. Can use the machin without talk the langage machin... so the machin has to serve the human, and not the other way.
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<nycjv321>
pontiki: I have been reading the YAML Cookbook for Ruby and checking Stackoverflow
<jerome__>
i answer no, pontiki to mycjv
<pontiki>
and GUI, mouse movements, etc, do not serve me
<jerome__>
yes, i understand
<pontiki>
my primary way of working with the computer, to create the things i want to create is via the keyboard
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* nycjv321
thinks someone is a robot
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<pontiki>
now, when i'm editing photos, music, video, yes, i use the GUI
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<jerome__>
so you never make code for the other noobs ?
<jerome__>
sure...
<pontiki>
i make tools for people to use
<pontiki>
i make libraries for other coders to use
<jerome__>
so there is some people that use gui for other people can do it easy...
<pontiki>
and if the person i'm making something for needs a GUI, i write it as a web app
<jerome__>
very great job !
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<jerome__>
and then, do you know someone who can have an idea wich GUI can be use great with ruby and can go in all OS ?
<pontiki>
nopers
<pontiki>
nor care i
<bnagy>
web
<bnagy>
swing ( jruby )
<pontiki>
but have at it if you like
<jerome__>
swing ?
<bnagy>
mono, kind of but not really
<jerome__>
what did you think about Qt4 ?
<pontiki>
it's perfectly fine with me that people want to write GUI desktop apps
<pontiki>
perfectly cromulent, in fact
<pontiki>
but it doesn't interest me
<jerome__>
"cromulent"... i don't know what is it.
<pontiki>
so i'm not going to research how best to do that
<jerome__>
yes, i understand.
<pontiki>
it's a neologism, jerome__
<jerome__>
ok
<pontiki>
just means "fine, excellent, wonderful" etc
<jerome__>
do you know why noone devel more wxruby for so long time ?
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<pontiki>
nope
<pontiki>
but consider the number of fast moving targets
<pontiki>
that's my guess
<jerome__>
maybe
<pontiki>
oh, and the web
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<jerome__>
i search a target who not moves so much...
<jerome__>
a GUI target.
<jerome__>
before that, you was talking about rails...
<pontiki>
yah?
<pontiki>
with crucify_me
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<jerome__>
i'm beginner (the rally first step)
<jerome__>
yes...
<pontiki>
oh crikey, i've been talking a lot, haven't i?
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<jerome__>
and i would like to have some view from great coders
<pontiki>
who says i'm great?
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<pontiki>
talk to r0bgl33s0n
<pontiki>
he's awesome
<jerome__>
did you think someone new on rails can quiclky make good internet site with iot ? (good... with all tools that can see other way)
<jerome__>
?
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<pontiki>
no
<pontiki>
not quickly, and not good
<jerome__>
how long ?
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<jerome__>
not good... why ?
<pontiki>
maybe by the tenth one
<pontiki>
because you get neither good nor quick right out of the box
<jerome__>
yes, sure.
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<pontiki>
it's like trying to win a tennis match before you've swung a racket
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<pontiki>
raquet?
<pontiki>
how do you spell that
<sevenseacat>
racquet
<pontiki>
ta
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<jerome__>
but you know... with C, you can make something really good... but in very long time. And with ruby, you can make something really good, but quickly.
<jerome__>
that's i would talk about...
<nycjv321>
jerome__: emphasis on really quickly :)
<pontiki>
rails is not ruby
<pontiki>
ruby is not rails
<sevenseacat>
+1
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<sevenseacat>
ruby is a *lot* more powerful and expressive than most apps written in rails
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<pontiki>
this also depends a HUGE amount on the person doing it
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<sevenseacat>
aye
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<pontiki>
but here we spend a lot of time talking about this stuff
<pontiki>
stop wondering if something should be done
<jerome__>
i consider this morning tried to install and see works ruby with wxruby (but... nothing)
<pontiki>
stop wondering if it's going to be successful
<pontiki>
break it down
<pontiki>
find out why
<pontiki>
get the source
<pontiki>
tear it apart
<pontiki>
put it together
<jerome__>
and then, have some information on rails (information is the first step curcial for go somewhere... before one day die)
<pontiki>
do do do
<pontiki>
you find more information when you moving than when you're standing still trying to find information and figure out where you should be going
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<jerome__>
no, i'm not so sure.
<jerome__>
and then, it is not so logical.
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<pontiki>
the lie of "the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" is the myth that you have to know what the first step is
<jerome__>
i think before ran every where, you need to be sure where to run.
<pontiki>
you will spend eternity thinking it out
<pontiki>
and then it will be over and not done
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<jerome__>
you make more in time with take good information before. SURE
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<pontiki>
if you run everywhere, blindly, without learning, yes
<jerome__>
not only information, but after action.
<pontiki>
it's only data
<pontiki>
until it's applied
<pontiki>
then it's information
<jerome__>
not only action, but before information.
<jerome__>
lot of data
<pontiki>
and when you look at it after the application, see what worked
<pontiki>
it can become knowledge
<pontiki>
and after you do this 10 thousand times
<jerome__>
some people try to do, some other know.
<pontiki>
it might just become wisdom
<pontiki>
until then
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<pontiki>
it's all wind
<jerome__>
why not ask and listen which one know ?
<jerome__>
before do ?
<pontiki>
why not indeed?
<pontiki>
but then what?
<jerome__>
it is a sens of the word: communiation.
<pontiki>
until you do something, it's all one way
<jerome__>
all the life organism do like that, and YOU do the same.
<pontiki>
jerome__: you cannot school me on this
<jerome__>
i think i can do something here for you remember that communication has a sens.
<jerome__>
why not ?
<pontiki>
yes, of course, you do your homework
<pontiki>
we are not communicating, are we?
<jerome__>
what's homework ?
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<jerome__>
i'm comunicate
<pontiki>
to whom?
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<jerome__>
i serach solve my problems and ask someone who know.
<jerome__>
i tru to have ionformation about someone who know rails also in a second way.
<jerome__>
what's the problem with this ?
<jerome__>
is it so bad to try understand ?
<pontiki>
i cannot tell you what i know about rails
<pontiki>
because you don't understand anything by hearing it
<jerome__>
why not ?
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<pontiki>
"I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand"
<jerome__>
ok, the problem is me... THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID.
<pontiki>
that was teh generic you, not you specifically
<jerome__>
I don't know who are you and why you are like that... but sure, it is a psychological problem.
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<pontiki>
enh, it's just the human condition
<pontiki>
it's not a problem
<jerome__>
that i answer you for your suspscions.
<pontiki>
that quote is from Confuscious
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<jerome__>
the human condition is to live
<pontiki>
it's been known for millenia
<pontiki>
that wasn't a question
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<sevenseacat>
this is getting awfully philosophical
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<pontiki>
see, we aren't communicating
<pontiki>
because you don't understand what i'm saying
<pontiki>
it is
<pontiki>
vastly
<pontiki>
and becoming boring
<zendeavor>
language barriers are lots of fun for philosophical discussions
<jerome__>
some other want to run, some other want to understand... some think they can alone not me) some other try to ask the community.And also answer when they know.
<pontiki>
and really really pointless
<pontiki>
shut up and talk
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<jerome__>
this morning, i leran to register on irc (new for me)
<zendeavor>
i'm sure that means something somewhere
<jerome__>
i arrived install ruby other way from rvm
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<jerome__>
i not arrived with wxruby
<pontiki>
two wins
<pontiki>
do you count this a useless day?
<zendeavor>
super useless
<pontiki>
because you haven't figured out wxruby yet?
<jerome__>
yes... but why did you said i not understand you ?
<zendeavor>
i'm futzing with damned ERE right now
* zendeavor
hate
* zendeavor
fume
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* zendeavor
froth
<pontiki>
because you count this a useless day, jerome. that is why you don't understand me.
<pontiki>
but it's okay if you don't
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<jerome__>
i not count nothing.
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<jerome__>
are you sure 100% i not understand you only ?
<pontiki>
i am 100000% percent sure you only think you understand me
<jerome__>
why do you want i count something useless or not ?
<pontiki>
i don't actually care that much
<jerome__>
I just see: go or not ?
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<jerome__>
Maybe you are to much sure... that is some of psychological problems with some humans (not all, and not all the time)
<pontiki>
oh i see
<pontiki>
ad hominum attacks now?
<jerome__>
you are too much sure about what the other maybe know, think...etc... WHO ARE YOU ?
<jerome__>
i sadi you again: HUMILITY is a good way of life.
<pontiki>
where's yours?
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<jerome__>
try to learn this this day, you will not loose your time here and not do nothing like that.
<pontiki>
shouting at someone to live with humility certainly doesn't model it
<pontiki>
lol
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<pontiki>
jerome__: i really think you are talking to yourself now
<pontiki>
and projecting your feelings on me
<jerome__>
if you want... it is the same after that.
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<jerome__>
ok...
<jerome__>
NOW, i think we loose our time.
<jerome__>
i loose my time now.
<pontiki>
let's loose it in the wind
<pontiki>
loose it to let it flow where it will
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<jerome__>
so... thanks for your help, and not for your judgments.
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<pontiki>
press your case
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<pontiki>
you're sure to win
<jerome__>
here, in thailand, the sun is shining back... i go outside with my grilfriend. bye man, have a good trip on what you can do. i hope so
<pontiki>
but in that winning
<pontiki>
lose all
<pontiki>
oh, the passive-aggressiveness just drips
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<jerome__>
go to the dictionnary to see the definition of agressiveness... and also: judgments of valors.
<jerome__>
wo... and sure: humility.
<pontiki>
go to the dictionary to learn the substance of passive-agressiveness
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<pontiki>
you express your humility so weel
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<nathandial>
the last 200 lines or so of chat are hilarious
* pontiki
curties
<pontiki>
sound and fury, signifying nothing
<nathandial>
was there an actual disagreement that started all that, or was it just some sort of meta performance art
<pontiki>
i'm going for the latter
<bnagy>
french issues with english as a second language
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<pontiki>
with a whack-load of mania
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<pontiki>
for me
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<tjad>
Hi
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<tjad>
I've run into a somewhat interesting problem with bundler ... I have a custom gem, that I have specified to be used via the :path option.. this gem always gets deleted when I do a bundle install/update
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<tjad>
I have tried reinstalling bundler, reinstalling ruby, rebuilding the gem
<tjad>
I've tried moving the gem to a different path
<tjad>
still, the gem persists on being removed
<tjad>
problem is that when I try run the project that is using the gem, the gem isn't found, even if I replace the gem after doing a bundle install
<tjad>
the bundle install log states "Using xxx (a.b.c) from source at my_path"
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<tjad>
when I run irb, and require the gem however.. the require returns true
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<tjad>
so the gem is install
<tjad>
but the project can't find it
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<tjad>
Or, I assume bundler can't find it
<tjad>
What's weirder is, this project was fine, till I restarted my environment yesterday
<bnagy>
if nobody pipes up here you might want to try #rubyonrails
<bnagy>
they seem to like bundler
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<tjad>
oki dokes
<tjad>
thanks
<bnagy>
from my point of view, if require works in irb it's installed
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<tjad>
indeed :-/
<bnagy>
dunno what you mean by 'a project' that can't see it
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<tjad>
well, it's a bundler thing I guess.. because I assume that it isn't in the bundler "sandbox" env that it sets up for the project..
<tjad>
The project is just some project that has a Gemfile in it for bundler to utilzie
<tjad>
*utilize
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<bnagy>
stick around anyway, just tell em you're crossposting
<tjad>
ok, well thank you :)
<sevenseacat>
everyone likes bundler dont they :P
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<mickanio>
hello
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<pontiki>
someone is bound to be contrary about it
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<zendeavor>
i hate bundler
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<pontiki>
zendeavor is fulfilling my predictions
<zendeavor>
it was a self-fulfilling prophecy
<pontiki>
mine usually are :>
<zendeavor>
i've never touched blunder =[
<zendeavor>
u c wut i did ther
<zendeavor>
am sew kleaver
<pontiki>
reap as ye sow
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<r0bgl33s0n>
pontiki: thanks ;P
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<r0bgl33s0n>
zendeavor: bundler makes adding 1001010101010101010 million dependencies to your app a breeze =)
<r0bgl33s0n>
but nah, I like it, it's great for getting people new to a project up to speed with any dependencies quickly.
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<r0bgl33s0n>
and the version lock stuff for anything in production
<r0bgl33s0n>
rails app
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<bnagy>
I don't get why I would use it as opposed to putting dependencies in my gemspec
<r0bgl33s0n>
bnagy: yeah, i hear you, but have you tried to install development dependencies with rubygems before?
<r0bgl33s0n>
its weird
<r0bgl33s0n>
and there's also no locking
<tjad>
bnagy: that is an interesting point :?
<pontiki>
err. what am i being thanked for?
<bnagy>
saying he's awesome like 2 hours ago
<r0bgl33s0n>
pontiki: you said i was awesome way up there
<tjad>
but bundler allows you to have a project with gems not related to one particular gem
<pontiki>
oh
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<pontiki>
you are welcome
<pontiki>
tjad: i admit i don't know why it's doing that
<pontiki>
but i also have never done what you're trying to do
<bnagy>
r0bgl33s0n: well I only have one gem with a dev dependency and it's only test-unit
<bnagy>
so no :)
<r0bgl33s0n>
bnagy: when you install development dependencies of a gem (anything in the 'development' group) it'll install all the development dependencies of any immediate dependencies(if that makes sense)
<r0bgl33s0n>
its weird
<r0bgl33s0n>
for it to work for rails you'd need to make it an app and yeah the gemspec/rubygems as is probably isnt a good solution
<r0bgl33s0n>
well sure if your dependencies are that light you dont need it
<r0bgl33s0n>
i usually have a few gems like rake/yard/redcarpet
<r0bgl33s0n>
pryh
<r0bgl33s0n>
pry*
<bnagy>
I see
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<r0bgl33s0n>
when i said anything in the development group i was comparing to bundler but meant installing dependencies declared via add_development_dependency
<tjad>
thanks pontiki.. I am amazed .. it used to work .. for 2 sprints now .. about a month, this has been working ... and all of a sardine .. it stops :-/
<r0bgl33s0n>
is this for real
<r0bgl33s0n>
oh nvm
<r0bgl33s0n>
tjad: that sounds like a bundler bug
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<r0bgl33s0n>
maybe?
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<r0bgl33s0n>
ive never seen that happen yet, i use path: now & then as well
<pontiki>
can you bisect to a point it works again, by any chance?
<r0bgl33s0n>
its usually for a short time
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<tjad>
r0bgl33s0n: indeed :-/ I have also tried to install an older version of bundler :-/ perhaps I'll try an even older version
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<r0bgl33s0n>
yeah or try what pontiki said, maybe something changed
<r0bgl33s0n>
maybe the gem is deleting itself :S
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<r0bgl33s0n>
include SelfDestruct
<r0bgl33s0n>
but im not sure, it could be a lot of things
<r0bgl33s0n>
this is the exact line you should have
<r0bgl33s0n>
please try that line
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<r0bgl33s0n>
you should also have ../gems/qpid-messaging/lib etc, no qpid-messaging-0.20.0 or whatever it was
<r0bgl33s0n>
i didnt mean a literal require, it was a key in a hash, see ^
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<tjad>
yeah
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<r0bgl33s0n>
if you tick all those boxes, there's no reason bundler can't autoload that gem unless you need to create a gemspec yourself. but you were doing a few things wrong to begin with.
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<r0bgl33s0n>
you need a unpacked gem with a gemspec (bundler will try to build one if there isn't one)
<r0bgl33s0n>
to build a gemspec, not a gem
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<r0bgl33s0n>
path: .. is normally used when you are developing a dependency in parallel to the project you're working on, so you want to bring in those changes without releasing a new version.
<r0bgl33s0n>
when everything is ready to go and QA'ed, you release and path: goes away.
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<r0bgl33s0n>
if you want "private" gems, maybe look at a gem server
<r0bgl33s0n>
there is hosted solutions
<tjad>
r0bgl33s0n: yeah, this gem is actually an apache gem, which had a bug in it, we added a fix, but for that to get in to apache .. hmm gonna be a while I think
<r0bgl33s0n>
makes sense
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<r0bgl33s0n>
why not a git repo?
<r0bgl33s0n>
doesnt matter too much
<r0bgl33s0n>
but yeah, for bundler to auto-require you'll need to rename gpid_messaging.rb to gpid-messaging.rb or add the require: key/value combo to tell bundler you're breaking with convention (gem name being the same as for require)
<tjad>
Hmm, this is happier, at least it is complaining about things now .. but still not entirely happy.. will play around and see :) Thank you VERY MUCH for your help!!
<r0bgl33s0n>
youre welcome
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<optimusprimem>
plis, what is this '?h' in "hello".include? ?h #=> true
<pontiki>
>> CONST = "a constant"; CONST = "a changed constant"
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<s2r2>
hello #ruby. Beginner question: If I git clone a gem that I want to fix a bug in, how can I run (i.e. test) it? (using RVM if that matters)
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<canton7>
s2r2, 'gem build filename.gemspec; gem install generatedGemfile.gem'. There's probably a rake task in the gem's Rakefile which does something similar
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<s2r2>
canton7: thanks
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<haukur>
what could this possibly be?
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<tjad>
what happens when you do a gem install torquebox-server -v '2.3.0'
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<haukur>
tjad: I had tried that yesterday and it did not work, I'm running it again now to see what it outputs
<tjad>
ok
<haukur>
it says: invalid gem: package metadata is missing in /home/admittor/Admittor/torquebox/jruby/lib/ruby/gems/shared/cache/torquebox-server-2.3.0-java.gem
<tjad>
haukur: it's probably a dependency issue
<tjad>
ah
<tjad>
hmm
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<haukur>
I've tried running gem update --system, it's already the newest version
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<tjad>
haukur: I think I read the post you did, did you try deleting the cached gem :?
<sanav>
hello guys ! i want to make a chatting software using BOT and shoes .What i want to achieve : "to chat with application" . Suppose i write !help it show me help command and many other things .Please tell me is their any gem for making desktop bot ?
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<waxjar>
the shell? :p
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<sanav>
is my question understandable ?
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<sanav>
(^.^) any one here ?
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<apeiros>
no
<sanav>
apeiros: ok
<apeiros>
why do you talk to me? I'm not here!
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<sanav>
apeiros: (^.^) ok but i don't want to waste your time .My question is very stupid
<tjad>
guess when apeiros gets back you can ask him how he made his bot - I assume he would have used ruby to make a bot
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<tjad>
sanav: your question isn't stupid, but your requirements aren't clear either
<sanav>
tjad: ok .
<sanav>
apeiros: will you please tell me name of gem for making desktop bot ?
<tjad>
i mean, waxjar's response is perfectly valid ...
<tjad>
sanav: what do you mean by a desktop bot ..
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<tjad>
gui ? shell ?
<tjad>
must you integrate it to IRC
<sanav>
tjad: GUI (not shell)
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<sanav>
tjad: i already written i want to use shoes (GUI gem) .LOL ! sorry
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<tjad>
ah I see :)
<tjad>
no idea what shoes is :P
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<sanav>
tjad: oki ! it happens ;) .Can you tell me name of gem for making desktop gem ? I want to make it for my gf .Hehe ;)
<dutchruby>
ah i see its get used by everone, most people say php is just better and easier then ruby
<dutchruby>
how come that you are working in ruby now if you're coming from php?
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<\du>
i don't know.. it's different, ruby have very nice things, it's a bit more new an have more like "magical" method an a lot of sugar syntax
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<\du>
in other side php it's a bit more fast than ruby
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<\du>
dutchruby, because the AWS OpsWorks and Chef that use Ruby :)
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<dutchruby>
So Ruby makes it more faster?
<\du>
actually i started to see RoR look nice, but there are fw in php that work similar like Laravel
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<\du>
dutchruby, it's a different language, Cheff it's a SysAdm framework, it give to you a lot of ..mmm... like class.. that you can use, and there decide do i in ruby, because ruby and not python? i don't now.. but actually php make not sense because it's a line command app
<\du>
not a web one, so.. you can do it in php, but php was not made for it
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<dutchruby>
php isn't fully object-orientated and ruby is right?
<dutchruby>
and i find the syntax allot more friendly and simple in comparison to php
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<dutchruby>
i never understand OOP in php
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<banister>
dutchruby: btw rub isn't perfect, it has some annoyances :) (like blocks and procs and methods not being interchangeable)
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<dutchruby>
Hi Banister
<dutchruby>
i never used blocks/procs before just getting my head around variables, strings, floats etc.
<\du>
for me a language is not good or bad (well there is exception), the important it's the project, later see the language that is a tool to do it, so.. depend the project depends the language
<dutchruby>
is that just in current version of Ruby or are they gonna add support for that in the feature
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<dutchruby>
Yes but i am way more motivated for some reason to figure something out in Ruby then in Php
<\du>
block are cool, now in the last php version (5.5) they include it with yield statment
<joonty>
dutchruby: correct, php is not fully oo
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<joonty>
php has similarities to java in terms of oop
<dutchruby>
If i see php-code it feels loose/less structured could be my lack of programming, but in ruby it feels more structured to me
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<joonty>
yeh, that's probably an aesthetic thing
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<\du>
sorry.. backing back.. somebody know if i had myhash = { :foo => 'bar') how i can from a string like myvar = 'foo' get something like myhash[mystring] and get the :foo: value (in this case 'bar') ?
<apeiros>
\du: 'foo' is not the same as :foo
<dutchruby>
btw. do you guys now how i can get an active class on a li element (helper/routing in the middleman static generator
<\du>
i know, i can convert it ?
<apeiros>
\du: you can do: hash = {:foo => 'bar'}; key = :foo; hash[key] # => 'bar'
<apeiros>
\du: or you can do: hash = {:foo => 'bar'}; key = 'foo'; hash[key.to_sym] # => 'bar'
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<joonty>
\du: myhash[myvar.to_sym]
<joonty>
\du: yes, you can use "mystring".to_sym
<apeiros>
you should avoid calling to_sym on arbitrary input
<\du>
thanks apeiros but it's don't work to my
<\du>
joonty, oh lemme try it!
<\du>
.to_sym works, thanks you
<apeiros>
joonty: meh, and now \du only reads half the answer and doesn't bother to read the part about not calling to_sym on arbitrary input etc.
<apeiros>
*sob*
<apeiros>
whatever
* apeiros
off
<dutchruby>
Anyone know how i could get something like this => <li class="current"<a href="#">mylink</a></li> with a ruby helper that works in Middleman app
<\du>
hahahah i read apeiros, just that for sure i will not undestand why it's not a good practice
<apeiros>
\du: because symbols exist forever
<apeiros>
unlike other objects, which only exist as long as you reference them
<joonty>
yeh, apeiros is definitely right
* apeiros
off now, for reals
<\du>
apeiros, yes but i have a each do |one, two| where one it's string, and i should access to a hash with 'one' like key, but the hash it's a sym
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<\du>
there are other better way to do it ?
<joonty>
\du: does the hash have to have symbol keys?
<joonty>
and where are the strings coming from in the first place?
<\du>
the hash of .each do have string key
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<\du>
the hash that i need use the first hash key have sym
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<joonty>
yeh, does *that* hash have to have symbol keys?
<\du>
but i solve it with .to_sym so i think that it's okey for what i need
<\du>
thanks you
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<\du>
dutchruby, how is going everything in Groningen?
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<dutchruby>
haha i am not from groningen:P
<dutchruby>
i am living in the same providence as amsterdam;)
<\du>
oh! near i hope :P
<dutchruby>
why do you hope its near
<\du>
nice city amsterdam!
<dutchruby>
yes it is
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<dutchruby>
you know what would really make me happy on a rainy day as today to get that middleman helper running or that the sun is gonna shine:)
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<dutchruby>
couldn't anyone help me with a nav-helper for middleman?
<recursive>
im not sure where to ask this question or where to start. we broke apart our main application into two webpages (rails app base). webpage A needs to login to webpage B (rails). what is the best way to do this? do i need to code a login widget? if so, what do i need to search for. i am not sure what something like this is called, so my google results are terrible. if i had a name of what i am trying to do, i can search and take it fr
<dutchruby>
tried that first solution and i got some errors
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<dutchruby>
isn't it possible to do a if on the current_page function?
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<dutchruby>
i cannot find a solution on http://middlemanapp.com i tried a rails helper but that didn't work, btw i am using haml as a templating language
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<dutchruby>
Du don't you got any navigation-helper i could use or which you could port so its usable in Middleman
<ccooke>
zaargy: Okay, so in simplistic terms you have class A, and class B which inherits from A. you want to call a method in B which calls a method in A which calls the version of the method in B. Which would logically cause an endless loop
<sjltaylor>
it's a small patch to net/http, apples to >= 1.9.3
<sjltaylor>
so is ruby-trunk the best place to PR to?
<shevy>
yes
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<shevy>
at worst they will just shift it to the right target anyway
<spike|spiegel>
sjltaylor: read content in the link please? net/http doesn't change much ... should be fine, what is the patch acheiving btw?
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<sjltaylor>
I will
<ccooke>
zaargy: effectively you've said you want to be able to override a method *and* not override the method at the same time.
<sjltaylor>
passing parameters through to indicate that environment vars should be used for proxy settings
<shevy>
it's today's generation ccooke ... they want everything and nothing all at the same time ;)
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<banisterfiend>
zaargy: you can use: Foo.instance_method(:this).bind(self).call
<zaargy>
ccooke: thank you
<ccooke>
hanmac: How are you thinking? Because there are ways around anything short of adding seriously dodgy C plugins, and I don't think that would be very safe
<banisterfiend>
that forces the 'this' method from Foo to be executed on Bar, regardless if Foo overrides it
<pagios_>
hi guys i would like to get realtime iftop results to see the current bandwidth being used, into ruby how can i do that?
<hanmac>
ccooke: do you know what happend when you "freeze" a class object?
<banisterfiend>
zaargy: if you want 'Foo' instead to be dynamically resolved as the immediate superclass, then use: superclass.instance_method(:this).bind(self).call
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<ccooke>
hanmac: yeah, and I've used it in a few places. But you have to be really careful about cleaning up after yourself if so, and I suspect it can still be mucked about with :-)
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<banisterfiend>
regardless if Bar overrides it*
<ccooke>
hanmac: it *is* possible to replace all frozen objects with unfrozen versions, of course. It's just not sane or nice.
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<ccooke>
(or untracable)
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<hanmac>
ccooke yes and no … you can prevent an object from being unfrozen or copied
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<pagios_>
hello?
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<ccooke>
hanmac: I don't think you can prevent an object from being dup'd, and even if you can there are ways to create a duplicate manually
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<spike|spiegel>
marshal all the things!
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<banisterfiend>
ccooke: how would you create a duplicate manually?
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<stef1a>
so yesterday i was told that gem install [name] should be used instead of sudo gem install [name]. However, I just ran into the issue: You don't have write permissions for the /usr/local/bin directory
<stef1a>
when installing a gem without sudo
<spike|spiegel>
stef1a: good. now stop installing to /usr
<ccooke>
banisterfiend: class dependant. But generally, by using the object. I can build a duplicate of a Hash by walking its keys. I can make a duplicate of a string by interpolating it into a new string, etc.
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<hanmac>
ccooke: remove_method :initialize_copy
<banisterfiend>
ccooke: sure, but what about singleton methods?
<mikecmpbll>
i'm trying to include a module in a class, but the module needs some settings passed to it somehow
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<ccooke>
banisterfiend: well, the object is still open. It's easy enough to inject another method into an object - even if the object is locked, it almost certainly has ancestors that are not.
<ccooke>
banisterfiend: and once you can execute a method in the context of the object, you should have access to everything
<stef1a>
spike|spiegel: how?
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<spike|spiegel>
stef1a: what's your GEM_HOME?
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<banisterfiend>
ccooke: how do you inject a method from a singleton class into another object?
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<tuxero>
hello
<ccooke>
banisterfiend: well, they're still methods. you can grab them and bind them to the singleton class of the target object
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<ccooke>
banisterfiend: unless I'm completely misremembering. I mean, this is stuff I'm unlikely to need to do :-)
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<realDAB>
ccooke: i don't think you can do that
<tuxero>
I would like mappear with active record data from a table q and q have data already exists. ?
<realDAB>
ccooke: (if i'm understanding you correctly)
<ccooke>
realDAB: hmm. Well, I guess I can go try :-)
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<banisterfiend>
ccooke: how?
<realDAB>
TypeError: singleton method called for a different object
<long_shot>
ok, this is a philosophical one: isn't all web apps ultimately an instance of a CRUD ?
<banisterfiend>
ccooke: in ruby 2.0 you can rebind methods from modules, but not from arbitrary classes and esp not singleton classes ;)
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<banisterfiend>
ccooke: one thing u could do is use method_source to grab the source and re-eval it in the context of the singleton class, but that's very hacky and nto a general solution (though would probably work in 90% of cases)
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<spike|spiegel>
what ya folks talking?
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<banisterfiend>
spike|spiegel: a topic that is currently free of "sigh" and "lmao" thankyou very much :)
<ccooke>
banisterfiend: *nod*
<ccooke>
banisterfiend: ick :-)
<ccooke>
banisterfiend: but yeah, probably would work
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<tuxero>
hello
<spike|spiegel>
>> class C ; end; m = class << C ; self.method(:name).unbind ; end; m.bind(42).call
<eval-in>
spike|spiegel => bind argument must be an instance of Class (TypeError) ... (https://eval.in/41420)
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<spike|spiegel>
banisterfiend: ^ it that what you talking?
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<stef1a>
spike|spiegel: so I dunno how to directly find GEM_HOME, but when i type `gem environment`, I get this: http://pastie.org/8215455
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<banisterfiend>
eval-in: >> RUBY_VERSION
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<banisterfiend>
eval-in: that's because that's a class method shared by both classes
<banisterfiend>
err, spike|spiegel
<banisterfiend>
spike|spiegel: we're talking about instance methods on classes
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<stef1a>
spike|spiegel: if I do `echo $GEM_HOME` i get no output
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<banisterfiend>
spike|spiegel: of course you can rebind 'name' since it comes from the Module class, which is a shared class of Fixnum and C
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<spike|spiegel>
stef1a: umm, might be because of existing/installed gems... rubygems can get crazy .. just set GEM_HOME to confortable location
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<ccooke>
banisterfiend: actually, there's a clear horrible way to do it that's all your fault :-)
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<banisterfiend>
ccooke: ?
<ccooke>
banisterfiend: Get singleton class of object, use object2module to convert it to a module, get singleton class of target object, include your the module :-)
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<banisterfiend>
ccooke: lol, i think object2module has been dead since 1.9.2 ;)
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<ccooke>
banisterfiend: and? you admit that the approach would work, righ? :-)
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<banisterfiend>
paranoid ruby core made all the interesting functions invisible :(
<stef1a>
spike|spiegel: so when I set GEM_HOME to a dir in my ~, I still get You don't have write permissions for the /usr/local/bin directory. when I try to do gem install [name]
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<banisterfiend>
i was just showing that if you create an nth level singleton class of a class, then ruby also creates nth level singleton classes for all of that classes superclasses
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<spike|spiegel>
these shouldn't even exist :)
<banisterfiend>
so if you have a an inheritance hierarchy n deep, then creating a z level singleton on the lowest subclass causes n * z other classes to be created
<spike|spiegel>
and IClasses from modules
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<spike|spiegel>
stef1a: /home/stefan/.gem/ruby/2.0.0 is in the GEM PATH ... I think it should all work if you clear out /usr/local/lib/ruby/gems/2.0.0 and start fresh
<ccooke>
banisterfiend: surely those classes are lazily created
<spike|spiegel>
might be a bug in rubygems even
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<ccooke>
banisterfiend: because otherwise creating one class would mean creating an infinite number of classes
<banisterfiend>
ccooke: yeah the zth level singleton is lazily created, but as soon as you create it then 'z' level singletons have to be created (eagerly) on all superclasses
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<theRoUS>
is there any way to persuade 'aaa'.inspect to produce 'aaa' instead of "aaa" (single-quotes rather than double) ?
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<wald0>
im new (learning) ruby and trying to understand how to use ffi... what is the way to read ruby documentation? more exactly for: FFI::MemoryPointer.new
<hanmac>
theRoUS no
<wald0>
i mean, what is the tools/commands for that? in unix is "man"
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<spike|spiegel>
Time.now is good enough, unless one requires to pull out year/ day / hourse etc
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<shevy>
hourse?
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<shevy>
is that a horse in a house
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<hanmac>
shevy maybe its an horse, big as an house ;P
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<shevy>
hmm like those ancient sindbad movies... where he fought the cyclops... and some wardog things... and the medusa ... and lots of other beasts
<joshmyers>
spike|spiegel: problem is, I'm using a script from my local machine, GMT, but servers use UTC so I want the script to deal with with that nicely
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<joshmyers>
the script runs and tells the servers to do something Time.now
<hanmac>
joshmyers: and what about my line?
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<joshmyers>
ahhh hanmac, perfect
<joshmyers>
apologies I didn't see that all the way up there
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<joshmyers>
that's perfect
<joshmyers>
tanks
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<spike|spiegel>
joshmyers: you know GMT is kind of now an alias for UTC
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<joshmyers>
I didn't no..
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<spike|spiegel>
handling real timezone differences is not easy
<joshmyers>
was causing me problems as the script would kick in an hour out
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<spike|spiegel>
easiest rule is : never deal with strings.
<pontiki>
lol
<pontiki>
so true so true
<pontiki>
other easiest rule: always run UTC everywhere
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<spike|spiegel>
naw, if you don't deal with strings ... you are set.
<apeiros>
timezones are easy. dst and leapseconds are hard.
<apeiros>
timezones are just representational shifts of the same value.
<pontiki>
s'truth
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<pontiki>
leapseconds are part of UTC, which timezone and dst are user presentation things
<apeiros>
pontiki: correct. but dst is not predeterminable
<spike|spiegel>
no one really cares for leapseconds :)
<pontiki>
heh
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<apeiros>
i.e. you can't say whether a given time in the future at a given location will be DST or not
<pontiki>
dst is subject to politics
<spike|spiegel>
and religion :)
<pontiki>
newp, only the past
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<apeiros>
which is why it is hard, even though it is only a representational shift
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<pontiki>
(but then again, fsov of future, you can't tell whether a given location will be underwater either. :> )
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<whitenoise>
pontiki: i am psychic.
<whitenoise>
pontiki: Venice, Italy will be underwater.
<pontiki>
:)
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<pontiki>
ok, since it's already underwater
<whitenoise>
lol
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<pontiki>
but you don't know if by 2257 it will still be underwater
<whitenoise>
pontiki: also Atlantis.
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<whitenoise>
right.
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<whitenoise>
do they have an estimated year for when Venice will be uninhabitable?
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<pontiki>
not that i know of
<hanmac>
whitenoise: isnt it allready? ;P
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<pontiki>
no, it's still rather lovely
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<whitenoise>
i want to visit before it's all underwater and stuff.
<pontiki>
everyone says 'go soon'
<whitenoise>
right
<havenwood>
<3 Venice
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<whitenoise>
i went to Paris, France last year. Venice, Italy is on my list for the upcoming year.
<havenwood>
A bit underwater already in the Winter.
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<pontiki>
awesome
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<pontiki>
last time i was there, we had to walk on the boards for some parts
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<whitenoise>
oh nice, when was that?
<pontiki>
but it had been worse just prior to our arrival
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<pontiki>
hum....
<whitenoise>
huh.
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<pontiki>
2000? i want to say
<whitenoise>
ok, so a while ago
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<pontiki>
ya
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<whitenoise>
also, all my traveling is made possible by the Ruby language.
<pontiki>
time before that was way way back in 1977
<pontiki>
oh that is AWESOME
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<pontiki>
how do you get that gig?
<whitenoise>
lol
<havenwood>
Ruby en Avion
<pontiki>
do you need a minion?
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<whitenoise>
well, I am a developer / sys admin for a mid-sized hosting/development company...then I do freelance on the side, and I have a personal project that I am starting up that will hopefully bring in passive income.
<whitenoise>
and about 80% of all of that is in Ruby
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<pontiki>
i speak French, Italian, a tiny bit of Greek, as well as Ruby :)))
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<whitenoise>
my personal project I'm having to build to accommodate an enormous amount of traffic, so it only has a Ruby front-end that does API calls to a back-end written in Go.
<pontiki>
also Strine and Kiwi :>
<whitenoise>
on top of Cassandra database, with also Go over a SOLR installation for searching.
<pontiki>
oh neat! i haven't written in Go, but wow what a cool language
<whitenoise>
it's awesome
<whitenoise>
i highly recommend playing with it
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<whitenoise>
the first project I did in Go was a MUD framework, if you are familiar with MUDs
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<whitenoise>
and it was really nice and easy in Go
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<pontiki>
i am
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<pontiki>
that does sound like a good starter
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<pontiki>
i do a lot with IRC, was thinking that could be useful there as well
<shevy>
whitenoise how far did you progress with your codebase?
<cpush_>
whitenoise - I would be interested in seeing your go based mud is it open sourced?
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<whitenoise>
shevy: I wrote the server (obvs) and then I had structs for rooms and players...and I had a 'say' command worked out for being able to emote and stuff in the says.
<whitenoise>
cpush_: I have the code on a laptop I call "Old Faithful" at home...I could put it up on the interwebs.
<whitenoise>
but there are other examples to have a look at
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<whitenoise>
I since did a talk at local Google Developers group...using Go for a backend of a websocket chat, it worked really well for that as well.
<cpush_>
cool, I don't know much about go but I would give it a go if I had some cool example code to look at, any components you would recommend looking at on the interwebs?
<whitenoise>
depends what you are interested in, I guess.
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<whitenoise>
goroutines and channels you need to understand to get going on anything worth doing...my go-to for a language is always a networked application like a chat or some sort of simple game...
<whitenoise>
but there's also web.go which is a microframework...that's what I'm building my API in
<pontiki>
whitenoise: that's the idea i have for Go: the chat room via websockets
<pontiki>
i think it'd be fun
<whitenoise>
pontiki: there is an excellent example already on the web. let me find it
<whitenoise>
shevy: Go is a quickly written language, and it is near the speed of C (just need more compiler optimizations to get it there) -- so it definitely has it's greatness, but I still prefer the Ruby language where applicable.
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<whitenoise>
but I think for something like a web service or something like that that you know you are going to need exceptional performance from....Go is a better choice.
<lessless>
how to collect first N times from Hash?
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<havenwood>
Ruby code is prettier. Go concurrency model seems quite nice.
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<whitenoise>
cpush_: that's pretty cool
<havenwood>
I keep running into RBX issues that have kept me from using it for anything but play. I do look forward to trying out the upcoming 2.0.0 release.
<cpush_>
kidding of course, but yes it keeps the syntactic sugar of ruby but uses ruby style langauge to write erlang vm code
<shevy>
whitenoise ok, and when you compare Go with C? Go is better in your opinion?
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<whitenoise>
shevy: that's a whole can of worms. Rob Pike released a statement that the C/C++ crowd is not adopting Go, it's the Python/Ruby crowd. so apparently avid C/C++ have a problem with changing (which is not surprising)
<whitenoise>
so it may just be a "set in your ways" issue, but I'm not sure.
<whitenoise>
something to do with garbage collection and stuff like that, a lot of really low-level computer science issues.
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<whitenoise>
Go has a built in garbage collector, and in C/C++ you would manufacture your own implementation for cleaning up after yourself
<whitenoise>
and so on
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<whitenoise>
so "better" is completely relative to your preference
<yxhuvud2>
it may also be that c/c++ projects on the whole tend to be a lot older
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<whitenoise>
yxhuvud2: this is also true
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<yxhuvud2>
and changing stuff that already exist is harder
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<whitenoise>
shevy: but if I were going to start a new project that needed that low-level capability, I would personally take Go over C/C++ any day
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<whitenoise>
the cross-platform compilers give you a C that moves around like Java.
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<whitenoise>
yxhuvud2: but yes, I have a feeling that a C/C++ project that has been sitting around for 35 years, people just don't want to port it over to anything.
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<yxhuvud2>
at work we are moving towards a mix of c and lua for the performance critical paths, slowly deprecating an old horrid java monolith.
<whitenoise>
i support that.
<whitenoise>
i was never a java fan. :P
<whitenoise>
before Go matured, I used C for everything I needed to be performant/low-level
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<yxhuvud2>
honestly, it is more the fault of not having refactored aggressively enough
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<whitenoise>
ah
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<whitenoise>
so it just got cumbersome and slow because it was unoptimized code piled on top of each other continuously?
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<whitenoise>
that's something I try to discourage here...our development director guy likes to do monkey patch situations and then "fix it later" and it never gets fixed later.
<whitenoise>
and i like to spend an extra 4-5 hours and just do it right (unless it's an emergency)
<whitenoise>
so there's a lot of contention there.
<yxhuvud2>
more or less. now we are getting a lot of small services instead which is a lot easier. (ironically enough, the biggest monolith except for the old java code is now the rails config tool)
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<whitenoise>
yxhuvud2: I think Rails definitely has its growth limitations...I have been doing a lot of study on that recently, and I think looking at the progression of Twitter is a pretty good case study.
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<yxhuvud2>
well, growth in terms of concurrent users perhaps. We don't have that problem.
<whitenoise>
ah
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<havenwood>
Twitter still uses Rails though. Just stopped being ridiculous with misuse.
<yxhuvud2>
as it is solely a tool for monitoring and configuration.
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<whitenoise>
yxhuvud2: Puppet! :D with MCollective
<whitenoise>
or not that kind of monitoring/configuration
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<whitenoise>
havenwood: It is my understanding that Rails basically serves their templating and stuff...and their back-end was first taken apart and made into a Java API...and then they also recently detached their searching from Rails and made it also in a Java search engine called something I'm not remembering right now.
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<yxhuvud2>
well, not close enough.
<havenwood>
whitenoise: Mostly Scala if I recall.
<havenwood>
vals and vars, oh my!
<yxhuvud2>
though I have lobbied quite a lot to use chef for the configuration files instead of a homegrown python hack.
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<whitenoise>
yxhuvud2: yeah. here we have a Nagios implementation for customized monitoring, I've written a few plugins in Go for it. And I tried to lobby as well for a Puppet/MCollective implementation...but instead we did VMWare template machines...which is not nearly as fast as just using Puppet.
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<whitenoise>
and I can't do nifty things like go into a console and send a message to all of them and get a response, or change config files on all the servers at once
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<whitenoise>
I have to go into each one one at a time.
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<havenwood>
Puppet or Chef??
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<whitenoise>
Puppet
<havenwood>
Who wins?
<whitenoise>
oh
<whitenoise>
who wins, dunno
<whitenoise>
I've never even used Chef.
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<kaldreno_>
Is there a meaningful difference between += and << when it comes to addition and concatenation? I see that string_var += "foo" has the same output as string_var << "foo", and I also see that 1 << 1 == 2. Are these just aliases, or do they behave differently?
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<yxhuvud2>
whitenoise: well, we implement (or use standard implementations if applicable) snmp for our services so users can use whatever they want to monitor it.
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<havenwood>
kaldreno_: << is more efficient in that it creates one less string object
<yxhuvud2>
kaldreno: << modifies the original string.
<havenwood>
kaldreno_: += take the two original strings, and creates a third combining the two
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<havenwood>
kaldreno_: << concatenates the second string onto the first, no third object is created
<kaldreno_>
havenwood, yxhuvud2: Thanks. What about for Fixnums? Does 1 << 1 actually behave differently from 1 + 1?
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<apeiros>
err, yes
<apeiros>
<< is bitshift, not addition
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<kaldrenon>
Ooooh.
<kaldrenon>
I'm dumb. I should try more cases when playing with new operators.
<apeiros>
it's actually a method
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<MrZYX>
hm, is it rewritten as method call or isn't it rather an operator that calls a method?
<havenwood>
kaldrenon: It is idiomatic to use << for Strings.
<apeiros>
MrZYX: IMO that doesn't matter.
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<kaldrenon>
havenwood: I'll stick to that, thanks again.
<havenwood>
kaldrenon: Pry is really nice for exploring methods.
<apeiros>
MrZYX: but I'm pretty sure it's parsed directly as a method call
<kaldrenon>
havenwood: Oh yes, pry is excellent.
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<shevy>
<< looks like spaceshift attacking with laser
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<shevy>
I mean, spaceship
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<kaldrenon>
I haven't used it much for exploring methods, though. What's the basic procedure for that? e.g. how can I use pry to answer questions like my original query in the future?
<shevy>
kaldrenon += will create a new object, << will not
<havenwood>
kaldrenon: E.g., you could `cd Fixnum` and `ls` to look at methods. Then `? <<` to show docs or `$ <<` to show source.
<havenwood>
kaldrenon: Might want to install pry-doc if you haven't already.
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<kaldrenon>
havenwood: excellent tips, thanks! I've been using pry for a little while but I knew I was only scratching the surface; it's a much more powerful rails console than irb
<havenwood>
kaldrenon: (Of course from within Pry just check `help` for Pry commands.) Only one I disable is `cat` because I want to be able to name globally scoped local variables "cat".
<havenwood>
As one does... :P
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<havenwood>
If you two want to reclaim your `cat` local var just add to your .pryrc: Pry.commands.rename_command '%cat', 'cat'
<havenwood>
too**
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<kaldrenon>
havenwood: Hah, I actually use cat as a local variable myself. Question is: do you mean cat as in meow, or cat as in category?
<havenwood>
Meow.
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<popl>
as in "curiosity killed"
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<popl>
>:|
<havenwood>
Curiosity killed the category.
<kaldrenon>
^
<kaldrenon>
The category was "Mars landings"
<onewheelskyward>
I'll take Mars Landings for $200, Alex.
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<kaldrenon>
onewheelskyward: You will become rich and famous if you can land on Mars for $200. :P
<popl>
havenwood: That's not even catchy.
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<shevy>
hmm
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<shevy>
$200 would be only possible with robots that can build new robots
<endash>
anal bum cover!!
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<popl>
havenwood: Besides, I've seen pictorial evidence that curiosity did indeed kill the cat.
<havenwood>
:P
<popl>
havenwood: If it is on the Internet it must be true.
<havenwood>
:O
<shevy>
and when I hear cat, I think of "get content"
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<whitenoise>
whoa
<whitenoise>
i just looked back to irc and saw "anal bum cover" and cats.
<shevy>
lol
<havenwood>
Wow, that escalated quickly.
<havenwood>
Oops, i'm late!
<popl>
havenwood: Internet.
* havenwood
flees at once.
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<popl>
havenwood: There's no time, quickly, quickly!
<whitenoise>
popl: too late..he's already gone.
<whitenoise>
his flee skill did go up 2%, though.
<popl>
RELEASE THE KRAKEN
<endash>
but he lost some initiative
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<whitenoise>
he's back!
<popl>
He can't get no satisfaction.
<popl>
havenwood: Are you a cat?
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* popl
notes the temperature gauge stuck on 'silly'.
<kaldrenon>
Catwin's Law: It's Godwin's Law, but s/Hitler/cats/g
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<endash>
what with their scheming and genocidal ways
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<popl>
also anti-semitism
<endash>
also: terrible landscape artists
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<redmenace>
greetings. anyone have trouble building rcov with ruby 2.0? (using RVM/bundler)
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<popl>
My Jewish friend has a cat and the cat bit him so hard my friend's finger swelled like a kielbasa.
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<popl>
Hitler never bit any Jewish person AFAIK.
<popl>
literally worse than Hitler
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<shevy>
I had that too once with our new cat (years ago), my finger looked awful for several days. there were two deep bite marks from the upper teeth of the cat, and an infection followed, but it was still a small area so it healed after a week
<shevy>
bastard bit me
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<stef1a>
Why would this http://pastie.org/8215969 return the error /usr/local/lib/ruby/2.0.0/net/protocol.rb:153:in `read_nonblock': end of file reached (EOFError) upon execution?
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<popl>
your indentation is borked stef1a
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<apeiros>
stef1a: because that's what read_nonblock does when it reaches the end of a file (or in this case, an IO)
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<apeiros>
but odd…
<apeiros>
net/http should rescue that itself…
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<rkeene>
I'm trying to compile Ruby 1.9.3p448 for AIX. I eventually get it compiled, but it segfaults on startup trying to load "enc/encdb.so"
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<stef1a>
apeiros: yeah that's wha ti thought
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<stef1a>
popl: the indentation shouldn't matter
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<popl>
stef1a: only to people reading it. :)
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<stef1a>
popl: :)
<hanmac>
rkeene, did you try ruby-trunk?
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<stef1a>
i think the problem is https
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<popl>
stef1a: is it something in the content pointed to by the URI?
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<_droid>
hi people, i have tried to install ruby from source, and changed my mind. How can I uninstall it?
<stef1a>
popl: no
<popl>
stef1a: if you determine the cause will you let us know?
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<bigoldrock>
sorry folks, I asked this question at one point, lost the answer ... and have to ask it again :(
<stef1a>
popl: originally I was trying to download a list of files but some of them are invalid so i want to implement a validity checker (i.e., check the status of the request using openuri or net/http).
<bigoldrock>
you have two arrays: larry ["1", "2", "3"]
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<bigoldrock>
thanks hanmac
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<stef1a>
popl: Figured it out. This works:http://pastie.org/8216047 Two points of interest: 1. good indentation; 2. used the docs, not SE, to figure this out. ;)
<stef1a>
though it does use Net::HTTP rather than Open-URI
<stef1a>
solely Open-URI, rather
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<apeiros>
stef1a: unrelated to your error, but you can reduce your 5 line return statement to a simple `return res.code == 200`
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<apeiros>
which in turn can be reduced to just `res.code == 200`
<fuzzyhorns>
anyone know how to get just the class name off of a name spaced class?
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<fuzzyhorns>
right now am doing this r.class.name.to_s.split("::").last
<apeiros>
fuzzyhorns: um, name already is a String
<apeiros>
no point in doing to_s on that…
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<fuzzyhorns>
nm, this works: self.class.name.demodulize
<apeiros>
yourclass.name[/[^:]*\z/]
<apeiros>
that's not ruby, though, that's a railsism
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<fuzzyhorns>
yeah, i am realizing
<popl>
stef1a++
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<havenwood>
imho just one-line it: Net::HTTP.get_response(URI.parse(url)).code != 200
<havenwood>
i dun like explicit returns
<havenwood>
Just merge ActiveSupport into Ruby? :o
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<havenwood>
Seems #blank? and friends would actually be nice to just have
<havenwood>
Array.fifteenth >.>
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<hanmac>
i dont trust "#blank?" … i mean is this an blank string? " " ?
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<hanmac>
or this? "\t" ?
<apeiros>
by #blank? it is
<apeiros>
and I agree, I dislike that behavior
<hanmac>
what about the other non printable unicode chars?
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<havenwood>
How bout just Inflector, #camelize, #underscore, #ordinalize?
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<apeiros>
part of the Multibyte stuff should be in core, though
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<apeiros>
it's really sad that things like unicode normalization/denormalization are not in core
<apeiros>
or transliteration
<hanmac>
ok blank? is inteligent enouth to use [:space:]
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<havenwood>
#prepend > #unshift
<havenwood>
trivial but nice
<havenwood>
$:.unshift... grrr
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<apeiros>
re $: - I got a response today on a feature request for php I made in 2005 :)
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<apeiros>
where I asked for a function to return an array of load paths, instead of a string
<apeiros>
(and the answer? it tells me how to split the string… which I obviously already knew back then as I wrote it in the request…)
<zendeavor>
holy wot
<hanmac>
when playing with the loadpath an message box should appear and you need to click [ I know what i do! ]
<Ontolog>
I forget, is using an instance variable inside the eigenclass (class << self; def bro; @bro ||= init_bro; end; end;) the same as using a class variable (def self.bro; @@bro ||= init_bro; end)?
<_droid>
ok I nearly got it working, my last problem is that when I want to create a new project with eclipse, the shell apparently runs "rails .", where can I change that
<apeiros>
Ontolog: no
<apeiros>
Ontolog: class variables are never the same as ivars
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<zendeavor>
splitting scalars is error-prone
<Ontolog>
apeiros: thanks!! so it seems safe to use the first form then
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<kaldrenon>
On a hash h where every value is a number, what would be the cleanest way to do h[key] = foo if h[key] is nil, otherwise h[key] += foo ? Is there a way to do "init-or-increment" in one line?
<apeiros>
kaldrenon: initialize the hash with a default of 0
<apeiros>
and always do += foo
<stef1a>
apeiros: thanks
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<kaldrenon>
apeiros: is it possible to make the default 0 for any key? This has has a dynamic set of keys; I don't know whether it will exist when I do the assignment.
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<Xeago>
apeiros: isn't 0 the default value?
<apeiros>
Xeago: no, nil is
<Xeago>
kaldrenon: Hash.new(0) isn't it?
<apeiros>
kaldrenon: that's the point of "default value"
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<apeiros>
otherwise it's a "value set for the key"
<kaldrenon>
Ah, alright, I misunderstood. Thanks!
<apeiros>
and Xeago showed how
<kaldrenon>
apeiros, Xeago: thanks!
<apeiros>
if you need to test whether a key exists, you can still do it with Hash#key?
<apeiros>
since Hash#[] will now return 0 even for inexistent keys
<kaldrenon>
Got it. So I can't do Hash[:foo].nil? but I can use key? instead.
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<apeiros>
yupp
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<stef1a>
Not sure what's up with this: http://pastie.org/8216187... Getting a permission error with writing to /usr/local/bin when trying to install gems
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<realDAB>
stef1a: all i can think is that you don't have permission to write to /usr/local/bin :-)
<realDAB>
stef1a: can you sudo it?
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<stef1a>
realDAB: I presume so, but I was told yesterday on this IRC to not use sudo for installing gems (i ran into a problem with using a gem after sudo installing it yesterday)
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<stef1a>
so i am conflicted.
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<realDAB>
stef1a: hmmm, i don't know the rationale for that but there may well be problems i'm not aware of
<Nilium>
Do a user install of Ruby, stop using system-wide gems, etc.
<Nilium>
Also use rbenv.
<havenwood>
s/rbenv/chruby
<Nilium>
rbenv.
* Nilium
puts havenwood in a box.
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<havenwood>
chruby.
* havenwood
escapes the box.
<stef1a>
Nilium: ... rvm?
* Nilium
hits stef1a with a giant comedy hammer.
<Nilium>
No.
<Nilium>
rvm does bad things to your shell.
<stef1a>
... such as?
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<stef1a>
I have rbenv
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<stef1a>
and I have rvm
<havenwood>
stef1a: RVM is the most popular Ruby version manager. A user install will allow you to use gems without sudo. Other options are rbenv and chruby.
<pontiki>
not to the shell.... ~in~ the shell :)
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<havenwood>
stef1a: RVM != rbenv
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<Nilium>
It mostly depends on what you prefer the version manager does.
<Nilium>
If you like it hooking into cd and breaking things, rvm is your best bet.
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<havenwood>
stef1a: rbenv puts a bunch of shims in your path and chruby sets your environment variables
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<Nilium>
If you like shims and don't want something touching your path, then use rbenv. If you don't like shims and are okay with it touching your path, use chruby.
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<stef1a>
hm
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<stef1a>
alternatively i can continue sudo installing gems until I run into trouble and THEN reinstall rvm and ruby
<stef1a>
...?
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<stef1a>
considering I'm the only user of my box
<havenwood>
stef1a: Using an apt-get install of Ruby?
<havenwood>
stef1a: Or built your own?
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<stef1a>
havenwood: apt-get i believe
<havenwood>
stef1a: What Ruby version are you on?: ruby -v
<stef1a>
how'd you know I was using linux?
<stef1a>
2.0.0.p195
<havenwood>
stef1a: sudo
<stef1a>
havenwood: ah
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<havenwood>
Not an apt package then.
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<havenwood>
stef1a: I'd just go ahead and pick one (RVM, chruby, rbenv), install latest stable Ruby (2.0.0-p247) and know you don't have to worry about sudo.
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<fryguy>
yep just found out that it's suitable with eval
<apeiros>
fryguy: note that the latter does not use eval
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<fryguy>
apeiros: obviously something that shouldn't be done, so yeah
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<apeiros>
i.e., if you need to do it in a safe way, I'd recommend the latter. or rather, I'd always recommend the latter :)
<fryguy>
amazing that you just happened to have written a gem that does this
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<banister>
apeiros: k00 lib
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<hanmac>
fryguy, flat hash or multi dimensional too?
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<apeiros>
banister: thx
<fryguy>
hanmac: i think it's flat, asking on behalf of a friend so i'm not sure
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<fryguy>
he's mostly just mad that the person who wrote the code he's dealing with didn't just write it as json instead of writing it as a literal object string
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<Quadro>
èäè íàõóé
<Quadro>
õóé
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<Quadro>
go to the chenel #fsdrt
Quadro was kicked from #ruby by apeiros [you can do your tests elsewhere, thanks]
<banister>
apeiros: so you made changes to the obj-c source?
<zendeavor>
huh
<apeiros>
hell no :)
<banister>
apeiros: so how did you write the /cs command?
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<apeiros>
with x-chat aqua I had ruby plugins
<ziggles>
Hey guys, i hope this isn't a ridiculous question but I was wondering if it's better to design classes so they are constructed as such: `ClassThatNeedsIdAndName.new(123123123, "frank")` OR `ClassThatNeedsIdAndName.new(id: 123123123, name: "frank")` ?
<apeiros>
much better for op-ing
<apeiros>
I'd just write /kb quadro
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<apeiros>
and it'd op me, kick him and ban by nick and host
<hanmac>
fryguy: is that code line i posted suitable for you?
<banister>
apeiros: so those commands are built in?
<waxjar>
check out textual, it's p neat
<apeiros>
banister: yes, /cs is short for /msg chanserv
<zendeavor>
weechat /alias
<ziggles>
Seems like the latter is a lot more readable for some guy just stepping into the codebase... but the first one is what i'm typically used to seeing.
<banister>
waxjar: can you script textual? it's a pretty ugly client though
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<apeiros>
most clients have that afaik
<apeiros>
banister: try /cs help
<zendeavor>
weechat all the things
<apeiros>
or just try /cs op #ruby :)
<zendeavor>
you need to tell your client to pass through unknown commands to the server
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<waxjar>
banister yea. it just runs a script and uses it's output, so you can use Ruby too
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<apeiros>
ziggles: with just 2 arguments, I'd go with the former
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<ziggles>
apeiros: i see. so it's totally up to me to make the call lol
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<graft>
okay, so system returns exit status but no output
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<graft>
so if i want output i need to use `` or %x{}
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<graft>
however, system also lets me specify the shell i want to use (e.g. system "/bin/bash", "-c", my_cmd
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<graft>
oh wait... i guess i can just do %x{/bin/bash -c my_cmd}
<apeiros>
slow clap? :)
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<zendeavor>
graft: it takes a single-quoted argument, for reference.
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<zendeavor>
double-quotes are wrong
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<shevy>
stef1a btw the \n is kept in the string
<stef1a>
shevy: you can also use #inspect ;)
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<stef1a>
which I shall do because it works
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<JimmyNeutron>
Could someone explain the difference between a module and class? I read the definition, but still not clear on their differences.
<shevy>
JimmyNeutron a module is a crippled class
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<Neener54>
Modules don't get instantiated
<apeiros>
classes can't be used with include or extend
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<JimmyNeutron>
But in class, you can also called the methos without creating an instance.
<apeiros>
so: classes are crippled modules :-p
<apeiros>
JimmyNeutron: no
<apeiros>
JimmyNeutron: those are class methods and technically not on the class
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<shevy>
JimmyNeutron you probably mean def self.foo
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<JimmyNeutron>
shevy, yeap. I was referring to self.foo
<shevy>
you can use that in modules too so that is not a difference JimmyNeutron
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<realDAB>
and any other object
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<JimmyNeutron>
ok...let me do some more googling and look at more examples
<havenwood>
Use a module unless you need instantiation.
<shevy>
except for Fixnum
<realDAB>
(except numbers)
<realDAB>
yeah
<JimmyNeutron>
ok..thanks!
<apeiros>
and immediates
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<realDAB>
s/any/almost any/ :-)
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<apeiros>
(nil, true, false, symbols, fixnums)
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<realDAB>
apeiros: you can do def true.x; end
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<realDAB>
apeiros: and nil and false
<apeiros>
realDAB: that's because true.singleton_class # => TrueClass
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<apeiros>
it's not really true.x :)
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<realDAB>
apeiros: yeah but you can do it :-)
<realDAB>
mind you, /me has never felt the need to do it
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<apeiros>
hrrr, ok. you can do `def true.x`, but you can't define methods on true's singleton class.
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<realDAB>
i guess the idea is that since TrueClass can only have one instance, it sort of is a singleton class already
<apeiros>
(which is somewhat moot because true is the only instance of TrueClass, so there's no real difference between TrueClass and a singleton_class of true - which is probably why true.singleton_class == TrueClass in the first place)
<apeiros>
^
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<apeiros>
^5? :)
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<realDAB>
apeiros: ?
<apeiros>
^5 = high five
<ziggles>
Could someone please help me understand why how i fix this rspec error? http://pastie.org/8216460 I understand that MyClass is being constructed w/ a required param but how should i test that instances of my class have the correct methods/attributes?
<realDAB>
apeiros: ah, right :-)
<apeiros>
because we basically said the same thing
<realDAB>
yeah
<realDAB>
^5
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<apeiros>
^5 :D
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<havenwood>
ziggles: Still an error with parens? Curious if a parsing issue?: respond_to(:id)
<zendeavor>
apeiros: you still have your ophat on
<apeiros>
oh, right. thx
* apeiros
puts down his wizard hat
<ziggles>
havenwood: sorry i don't understand what you mean.
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<graft>
ummm... okay, i have a string that contains a bunch f ' characters, how do i escape it so those are instead \' ?
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<havenwood>
ziggles: Does it work if you change `should respond_to :id` to `should respond_to(:id)`?
<graft>
i can't figure out how to get the escape sequences right with gsub
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<graft>
str.gsub(/'/,"\\'") doesn't do it
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<apeiros>
graft: you need like 6 \ there
<graft>
yeah how many?
<ziggles>
havenwood: unfortunately it makes no difference.
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<shevy>
ah yes subtle
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<RubyPanther>
There is also ruby-wmctrl
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<RubyPanther>
So you can hijack a regular wm with ruby :)
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<shevy>
oh well
<zendeavor>
subtle confused the bajeezus out of me
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<Torstein>
how do i gsub newlines, so that i go from "there is\na newline in my sentence" to "there is a newline in my sentence", without messing up other newlines?
<apeiros>
nathandial: the bot is only for demonstration purposes.
<shevy>
:D
<nathandial>
:-)
<Torstein>
haha
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<Torstein>
but you've misunderstood me. i dont want to replace every newline, only the ones between to characters.
<Torstein>
"\n\n" should not be replaced
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<apeiros>
/(?<=\p{Letter})\n(?=\p{Letter})/
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<Torstein>
i think i need to match [\S]\n[\S] and then only replace the \n with " "
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<apeiros>
[\S] is the same as just \S
<Torstein>
true
<apeiros>
and \S is not "letter"
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<apeiros>
well, that said, "character" is a rather vague description :)
<Torstein>
hehe
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<Torstein>
where can I read about (? syntax?
<Torstein>
nevermind
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<terrellt>
Anyone have any issues with rspec autoloading behavior? I've got a gem that defines module Hybag in lib/hybag.rb and a lib/hybag.rb in my Rails project. It combines the two perfectly in rails c, but in rspec it only loads the rails lib/hybag.rb.
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<zachrab>
how do i parse an array with JSON class
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<apeiros>
um, JSON.parse ?
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<shevy>
def foo(i); ! i ... or !! i... or !!! i
<shevy>
I am guessing :P
<zendeavor>
looks like a longform ternary
<shevy>
it tries to just toggle a false value to true and a true to false
<zendeavor>
yeah looks like a really verbose ternary
<apeiros>
sometimes I'm not sure whether shevy is trolling…
<zendeavor>
might be trolling, that block comment.
<shevy>
I am toggling
<zendeavor>
dey c me togglin
<zendeavor>
dey h8n
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<rkeene>
Does this look right ? (from an ruby-1.8.7-p374/ext/curses/mkmf.log): have_func: checking for wresize()... -------------------- yes ... conftest.c:3:53: error: 'wresize' undeclared (first use in this function)
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<rkeene>
I'm guessing it should say it "no" instead of "yes", since that symbol does not exist ?
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<shevy>
hehe
<MrZYX>
hm
<MrZYX>
it has "1.8.7" in the message
<MrZYX>
can't be right
<MrZYX>
no one is using that anymore
<MrZYX>
:P
<Neener54>
Oh man… if only
<Neener54>
space.com 1.8.7 rails 2.3
<Neener54>
Not gonna lie
<Neener54>
I worked on that stuff
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<rkeene>
I'm told that I need Ruby 1.8.7, since Ruby isn't backwards compatible
<MrZYX>
I just hope there'll be a security issue and they won't patch 1.8.7, so we finally get rid of it
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<havenwood>
Time to go to 2.0.0. When 1.8.7 gets exploited its too late, end-of-life and will receive no patch. Migrate now.
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<shevy>
Migrate to python today!
<havenwood>
>.>
<havenwood>
Just something from this decade. :P
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<shevy>
though that does not work, the python 2 to python 3 transition sucked even more
<rkeene>
Unfortunately, there is a house of cards at play here
<shevy>
hey, you use ruby 1.8.7 and curses
<rkeene>
Since nothing in the stack is backwards or forwards compatible, I have to use these exact versions everywhere because I'm limited somewhere.
<shevy>
guess why curses has that name
<havenwood>
mm
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<rkeene>
(This is yet another reason I prefer Tcl over Ruby, FWIW)
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<shevy>
well you have a problem in ext/curses binding
<havenwood>
I wasn't around in 1.8 days and refuse to maintain such a thing. Peachy.
<shevy>
that's not as if ruby depends on it, not even 1.8.x
<jarray52>
Does Ruby have good libraries to interact with Windows(at the OS level) in order to resize them, move them, focus on different parts of the window, switch window focus, switch the monitor on which a window is open, etc.?
<shevy>
havenwood my ruby code works fine on both 1.8.x and 1.9.x and 2.x
<rkeene>
I can't update Ruby, because I can't update Puppet clients, I can't update Puppet clients because they can't be newer than the server. The server is running the latest it can run at the moment.
<havenwood>
shevy: My code works in 2.0 only. :P
<shevy>
(ok, not sure about 2.x, they killed syck so my yaml files no longer work)
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<Rylai>
rkeene: look into rvm
<havenwood>
shevy: REFINE ALL THE THINGS! \o/
<shevy>
havenwood it's so much work!!! :(
<rkeene>
Rylai, That will not help me get Ruby to compile.
<Neener54>
Legacy stuff is so painful
<shevy>
for so little gain
<rkeene>
Back to what I actually asked.
<rkeene>
Does this look right ? (from an ruby-1.8.7-p374/ext/curses/mkmf.log): have_func: checking for wresize()... -------------------- yes ... conftest.c:3:53: error: 'wresize' undeclared (first use in this function)
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<havenwood>
shevy: Seriously though, I don't aim to support 1.8. Not at all worth it imho.
<rkeene>
I'm guessing it should say it "no" instead of "yes", since that symbol does not exist ?
<shevy>
rkeene why is curses mandatory? cant you move the directory away and just continue?
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<rkeene>
shevy, It happens with other extensions as well -- it's a problem with "mkmf", not curses.
<shevy>
huh?
<rkeene>
Specifically, it's detecting that I have symbols that I do NOT have
<shevy>
I can compile ruby 1.8.7 still fine
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<rkeene>
On AIX ?
<havenwood>
shevy: it is starting to fail on various platforms
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<MrZYX>
I guess you should maybe ask in #youros
<rkeene>
It's not a problem with my OS. It's a problem with Ruby.
<shevy>
on a normal PC
<havenwood>
Ruby 1.8 is past end-of-life, so not a Ruby problem.
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<rkeene>
Ruby is erroneously detecting that I have symbols that I do not have, which causes linking failures.
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<MrZYX>
*was
<rkeene>
Like "wcurses", "X509_STORE_get_ex_data", and more
<shevy>
that's one strange error problem you have there, I don't think I have heard that one before
<shevy>
sounds as if there is a sneaky switch to toggle the wrong result
<shevy>
IF_RUNS_ON_AIX: enable_xmas_settings
<MrZYX>
hm
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<MrZYX>
you mean enable_bad_xmas_settings
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<cortexman>
anyone know how these are ending up in my PATH? /Users/admin/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.0.0-p247/bin:/Users/admin/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.0.0-p247@global/bin:/Users/admin/.rvm/rubies/ruby-2.0.0-p247/bin
<cortexman>
i'm trying to replicate a setup and can't remember how this is happening..
<havenwood>
cortexman: RVM is putting it there.
<cortexman>
how
<havenwood>
By appending it to PATH, whatcha mean?
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<bsdbandit>
morning
<havenwood>
prepending*(
* bsdbandit
yawns
<cortexman>
how is rvm prepending it to the path
<cortexman>
i have installed rvm on another machine, it's not happening there.
<bsdbandit>
im coding my first site using sinatra what would be a good combination for coding a site in ruby and html5 is yaml good or is there something better
<bsdbandit>
?
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<shevy>
I have come to the conclusion that all software ultimately sucks
<cortexman>
#nihilism
<MrZYX>
bsdbandit: if you mean yaml.de, the css framework, yeah, I like it
<havenwood>
cortexman: I dunno what you've done. Typically RVM does prepend Rubies to PATH afaik. Could ask in #rvm, but I use chruby and am not sure of rvm behavior.
<bsdbandit>
okc
<havenwood>
cortexman: When you set an `rvm --default use ...`
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<havenwood>
cortexman: Even after you've set a default Ruby, it isn't?
<cortexman>
not on new shell creation
<cortexman>
it's temporary
<cortexman>
sorry i meant to show —default. at any rate, the behavior is the same
<havenwood>
cortexman: RVM should *just work*. Maybe report your issue in #rvm. Or clean install rvm and see if its still a prob.
<havenwood>
cortexman: `rvm implode` tears it all down
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<havenwood>
rvm does have a minimalist installation called mrvm, that allow you to install with rvm but use chruby to manage Rubies. It hijacks RUBIES though, so I just prefer to use ruby-install and ruby-build to install Rubies.
<rkeene>
Ah-ha, even better answer: It's compiling and testing with -O2, and the test places the function reference in a function (t) that's never referenced, and that's optimized out
<banister>
rkeene: what language is this?
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<rkeene>
banister, C. Ruby is written in C.
<banister>
rkeene: for real
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<popl>
Would it be more correct to suggest that MRI is written in C? What about jRuby?
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<popl>
I'm not trying to start a semantic argument. I have only used MRI.
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