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<DaveRoR>
Anyone know a good place to find the reference for "super"?
<DaveRoR>
It is called inside a function of a module, with two arguments.
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<Tricon>
DaveRoR: Oh, you mean where it's called?
<sevenseacat>
the superclass of the object?
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<DaveRoR>
Tricon: I mean, what does "super" actually do.
<DaveRoR>
Tricon: I'm confused and I can find no reference.
<sevenseacat>
it calls the same method in the parent object
<Tricon>
DaveRoR: ^
<zets>
btw, if it's called with no arguments, it passes the same arguments used in the child object method call
<DaveRoR>
But what if it is passed two arguments? The first is a string, and the second is a class object?
<DaveRoR>
(Sorry I'm a noob...)
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<DaveRoR>
Trion: ^
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<DaveRoR>
Tricon: ^
<DaveRoR>
sevenseacat: ^
<sevenseacat>
then it passes those two arguments to the parent method
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<zets>
DaveRoR: https://gist.github.com/zetsubo/6237718 this is really contrived, but this would output "test" and then "called from B#my_func" - the super call is calling the parent method's version
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<DaveRoR>
zets: Got it! Thanks! :D
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<zets>
np :D
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<pontiki>
if you're a noob, why do you have RoR in your nick?
<zendeavor>
because he wants to talk about ror
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<jrobeson>
i see this all the time in other channels
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<jrobeson>
i think it has to do with them trying their name.. and finding it already taken
<jrobeson>
so they just add whatever they are looking for support for
<zendeavor>
my favourites are "linuxnoobie" and similar
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<jrobeson>
those ones grind my gears unnecessarily :(
<jrobeson>
i don't know why i get upset about it
<jrobeson>
but for some reason it's a big pet peeve of mine . :(
<sevenseacat>
or the ones like 'railsking' when people are learning, i love those
<zendeavor>
because they tend toward intentional ignorance rather than welcoming a learning experience
<jrobeson>
a learning experience about which part?
<jrobeson>
learning irc culture?
<zendeavor>
linux
<jrobeson>
how does their nick choice reflect intentional ignorance?
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<zendeavor>
it doesn't, they tend toward it
<jrobeson>
or at least that specific nick choice type
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<zendeavor>
it's a phenomenon in #archlinu
<zendeavor>
x
<jrobeson>
that's not the only one ..
<jrobeson>
i used to help with support for gentoo
<jrobeson>
same kinda people
<zendeavor>
mhmm
<zendeavor>
why do those personalities pick such similar nicks? no clue.
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<pontiki>
maybe it's the only form of validation they get?
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<jrobeson>
i always wanted to know why one would want to advertise themselves as being a noob.. either in nick choice or post..
<zendeavor>
same
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<pontiki>
when i am a noob in places, i find sometimes it helps the other person know they need to explain a bit differently
<pontiki>
or hit me with a tonne of bricks because i asked the question wrong
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<jrobeson>
i guess i'd just say.. some tl;dr of "here's what i know..., here's what i'm trying to figure out"
<pontiki>
yeah
<pontiki>
graceful revelation of noobishness
<jrobeson>
well.. people always like it if you have some indication that you've tried something already
<pontiki>
ah
<pontiki>
i think that's a bit different, although in the same arena
<pontiki>
i like it when people show an interest in trying stuff out, yeah, rather than arguing about why it works the way it does
<jrobeson>
or at least.. read something already..
<jrobeson>
well.. it helps to know everything in computers is a kludge
<sevenseacat>
thats my #1 pet peeve, when people ask if something will work instead of trying it
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<jrobeson>
unless it's really hard to try :)
<sam113101>
unless it takes a long time to setup
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<sevenseacat>
most of the time it isnt though, its basic syntactic stuff
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<sam113101>
… right?
<jrobeson>
sevenseacat, yes.. that i find annoying
<sevenseacat>
syntactical? whatever
<sam113101>
because I always do that :)
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<jrobeson>
i think i've been doing irc help too long
<zendeavor>
3 years running
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<zendeavor>
already too long.
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<pontiki>
aye
<jrobeson>
uhmm.. what always happens to me.. is .. i join some irc channel to learn something.. but nobody there can help me out
<pontiki>
that is a long time
<zendeavor>
i should get a medal
<jrobeson>
and then i end up helping peopel with the basic stuff
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<zendeavor>
i'm ~legendary~ in #archlinux
<pontiki>
jrobeson: and you end up answering everyone else's questions
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<jrobeson>
hmm.. i'm about 12 years now.. :(
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<Nilium>
Coffee is not a good thing to drink before playing multiplayer shooters. Great for coding, not for games.
<jrobeson>
ever since i got involved in postnuke
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<sam113101>
I can you remember you from there zendeavor
<zendeavor>
i disagree that it's good for coding
<sam113101>
though I don't use archilnux anymore
<Nilium>
I disagree that you're good for coding.
<sevenseacat>
lol
<zendeavor>
maybe
<pontiki>
stims
<pontiki>
need the stims
<jrobeson>
pontiki, i think they just call that meth now..
<Nilium>
<zendeavor> if it ain't a needle it ain't in me
<sevenseacat>
need more stims *goes to fridge*
<pontiki>
but i am intrigued, why is coffee not good before mulitplayer shooters?
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<Nilium>
Makes my hand oddly shaky.
<zets>
gotta keep that meth cold
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<pontiki>
ah so
<pontiki>
jrobeson: was thinking of B5 in particular
<pontiki>
i'm sure they are *well* past meth
<jrobeson>
i was thinking of bsg ..
<Nilium>
Like it starts out shaky, balances out a bit and improves, then I get weirdly erratic.
<jrobeson>
never saw b5..
<pontiki>
omg
<pontiki>
SEE IT
<Nilium>
The coffee is less likely to be the issue and the whole me playing for too long thing is more likely to be the problem.
<jrobeson>
i've never seen star trek either..
<jrobeson>
or dr who
<pontiki>
but you have seen BSG?
<pontiki>
i find this interesting....
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<jrobeson>
well i've seen some episodes of both .. but i didn't really like them
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<pontiki>
ah, ok
<Nilium>
I've seen a couple episodes of Star Trek and that weeping angel episode of Dr. Who and that is the extent of my TV scifi. Aside from Lexx, which I kind of have a hard time considering scifi.
<pontiki>
that's different
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<jrobeson>
well generally i stayed away from things that happen in space
<pvizcay>
Hi! I've a simple script, that is made into a daemon with daemons gem. The startup and stop is working well when run from the command line, but I'm not able to configure it to start automatically with init.d (ubuntu server 12.04). I've tryied "sudo update-rc.d ruby startdaemon.rb defaults with no luck (looks like it looks for just a command line without parameters). Any ideas? thanks
<pontiki>
i cannot figure out Lexx. why was it made? who thought it was worth paying actors and crew for? WHO WROTE THE DAMN THING???
<jrobeson>
but.. i liked caprica.. so i watched bsg
<pontiki>
oh, you're working backwards then
<Nilium>
pontiki: It's the mystery that keeps it alive.
<pontiki>
Caprica was darn interesting
<sevenseacat>
hooray more diet coke
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<Nilium>
I will also never claim to even understand Lexx's plot 'cause I don't know if it had one
<jrobeson>
they had to close it out really quickly .. very sad
<jrobeson>
same as dollhouse
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<pontiki>
i can see why it got cancelled, the pacing was too slow for most TV
<jrobeson>
i liked the pacing..
<pontiki>
i did too, and the storytelling
<jrobeson>
i guess that's the kinda thing you gotta find a way to make money on the internet for..
<Nilium>
Speaking of TV shows, I wonder if the Walking Dead ever stopped being boring.
<jrobeson>
Nilium, you thought season 1 was boring?
<pontiki>
i wouldn't know
<Nilium>
I liked Season 1 until it got to the Resident Evil movie ripoff ending episode.
<jrobeson>
season 2.. boring..
<pontiki>
i stopped after halfway in first season
<Nilium>
At which point I just went "what the fuck" and never looked back
<jrobeson>
season 3.. definitely stopped being boring
<Nilium>
That said, I was one of the people hoping it'd stick close to the comic
<pontiki>
when the walkers have more personality than the live people
<Nilium>
The Walking Dead game did a much better job, I thought, as far as telling a story goes
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<jrobeson>
i also like silly things too tho
<Nilium>
It didn't try to cram in a stupid underground laboratory ala Resident Evil or anything.
<jrobeson>
if that perhaps changes your opinion of mine.. :) .. i liked eureka and warehouse 13 for example..
<Nilium>
The whole underground lab thing might be the biggest problem I had with the series.
<Nilium>
Because it seriously pissed me off.
<jrobeson>
that only happened in two episodes
<pontiki>
i still like w13
<pontiki>
and i loved eureka
<jrobeson>
it wasn't really a core plotpoint
<Nilium>
I must not forgive it for those two episodes.
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<Nilium>
They were just completely out of nowhere and amazingly stupid
<jrobeson>
pontiki, 6 more episodes and w13 is a goner :(
<pontiki>
yeah
<pontiki>
i have't watched any of s4 yet :(
<jrobeson>
waiting for it to hit netflix or something?
<pontiki>
no, i have the eps
<pontiki>
just not the time
<jrobeson>
ah
<pontiki>
i'm not watching anything right now
<l34ch>
is it hard to get a job and then relocate to the bay area?
<pontiki>
it's much harder to do it the other way 'round
<jrobeson>
i've binged on too much stuff on this past few motnhs in this little town..
<Nilium>
l34ch: The finding an apartment bit might be difficult.
<Nilium>
Or house.
<pontiki>
assuming said job is *in* the bay area
<l34ch>
yeah ive read its like 3 to 4 grand a month
<pontiki>
you have to have roommates
<jrobeson>
pick the right company and they will help you relocate
<pontiki>
or multiple incomes
<sevenseacat>
sounds like fun
<pontiki>
no, it's not that much
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<Nilium>
Or find something out of town.
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<jrobeson>
pontiki, well.. it could easily be $3000 ... depending on the utilities..
<pontiki>
if you're able to pay that much in rent, you can still buy a house for less monthly mortgage than that
<pontiki>
especially south bay
<jrobeson>
i have never heard anybody talk about utility costs
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<pontiki>
in the city, it's way hard
<jrobeson>
but.. i've definitely seen rents that are pretty high..
<pontiki>
if you're in santa clara, utility costs are way low
<jrobeson>
i'd be willing to pay it if i had one of those kinda jobs..
<Nilium>
Chances are utilities won't be as big a factor.
<pontiki>
except internet
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<Nilium>
That's not really utilities though.
<jrobeson>
who knows what those crazy californians get up to..
<pontiki>
i do
<pontiki>
:P
<Nilium>
I used to live in California, but it's been about 13 years, so I have no idea what's up down there.
<jrobeson>
down there?
<jrobeson>
from where
<pontiki>
Nilium: for those of us in this particular world, internet is a utility
<Nilium>
Plus I lived north of the Bay Area around Roseville.
<pontiki>
but it's not regulated as one
<Nilium>
And I was like 11 years old.
<jrobeson>
i plan on visiting the bay area at some point
<jrobeson>
but i doubt i'd move there anytime soon
<pontiki>
i can't wait to move back
<pontiki>
all of my friends and family
<sevenseacat>
when i think of utilities i think like gas, electricity, water, etc.
<pontiki>
sevenseacat: those are the typical regulated ones
<jrobeson>
the internet should be counted as a utility.. but then .. so should have phones..
<Nilium>
I want to go back just because most of my family is there and California's still the place I oddly consider home.
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<pontiki>
i do consider it home
<pontiki>
though i wasn't born there or raised there
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<Nilium>
I was born there, but less than half my life was spent there.
<jrobeson>
i've only passed through california on the train
<jrobeson>
to and from oregon
<Nilium>
It's difficult to explain my irrational fondness for the state.
<pontiki>
i was there for about 27 years. had two kids, great friends, other family
<jrobeson>
fondess for california doesn't seem irrationally..
<Nilium>
It does when I can't find a reason for it.
<pontiki>
oh, lots of people loathe the place
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<jrobeson>
sure they do
<Nilium>
I'm in Idaho, everyone but the Californians who moved here hate California
<pontiki>
i don't think there's any rationality to liking/disliking -- it's all emotional
<Nilium>
They mostly hate the Californians 'cause they moved to Idaho and are considered a blight.
<jrobeson>
hmm? climate is a very good reason to like california
<jrobeson>
that's quite rational
<pontiki>
heh, i've heard that a lot, Nilium
<zets>
or hate it
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<pontiki>
jrobeson: that's a post-hoc rationalization :)
<zets>
SF weather drives me crazy sometimes
<jrobeson>
liking californians..
<jrobeson>
now tha'ts different
<jrobeson>
i think most people hate californians.. not california
<Nilium>
Climate, culture, the state trying to generally do good things (and failing every time), etc.
<pontiki>
i get off the plane in SFO and breathe in the marine layer and all that -- it's entirely feelings
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<pontiki>
it makes me feel good
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<Nilium>
Though I could never get used to LA and such. Would drive me mad living there.
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<pontiki>
Westside wasn't so bad, but i couldn't stand venturing inland
<jrobeson>
i slept in the train station in LA ..
<Nilium>
It's just too big for me to imagine living there.
<jrobeson>
and ate tacos
<pontiki>
yeah
<jrobeson>
that's about it ..
<Nilium>
You need to get a burrito in the Bay Area.
<pontiki>
but if you confine yourself to like Venice, SM, Long Beach, it's not so bad
<pontiki>
OMG
<pontiki>
MISSION BURRITOS
<pontiki>
NOW
<Nilium>
Exactly.
<Nilium>
You have not had a burrito 'til you've had one of those.
<jrobeson>
we'll see about that..
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<jrobeson>
i'll be tasting all your burriots
<jrobeson>
burritos
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<pontiki>
only off a truck
<jrobeson>
duh..
<jrobeson>
i do eat tacos in a place that isn't a truck tho..
<pontiki>
living here is like living in a cultural wasteland, except for the theatre
<jrobeson>
the building looks like it should be on a dirt road in some sort of desert like area
<Nilium>
Your likelihood of getting food poisoning skyrockets, but it's pretty worth it.
<jrobeson>
pontiki, where do you live then ?
<pontiki>
right now i'm in minnesnodia
<jrobeson>
uhmm..
<jrobeson>
where there
<pontiki>
twin cities
<jrobeson>
ah ok..
<jrobeson>
well.. who knows there could be a real place called that
<jrobeson>
it can't be that bad..
<pontiki>
maybe not if you've never left
<pontiki>
let me put it this way: would you willingly choose to go from 20Mbs broadband back to 52kpbs dial-up?
<Nilium>
Reminds me of the move from California to Idaho.
<Nilium>
I didn't get cable up here 'til.. 2006 I think.
<jrobeson>
move to virginia beach pontiki .. :)
<jrobeson>
hah
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<Nilium>
Might have been 2007.
<jrobeson>
we'll see how you feel about the twin cities then..
<pontiki>
why should it go further down to 300baud?
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<jrobeson>
hey now.. it's not that bad..
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<pontiki>
1200?
<jrobeson>
the place i am now is like 300
<jrobeson>
parkersburg , wv
<jrobeson>
until i move back to portland
<pontiki>
sympathies. deepest sympathies
<pontiki>
pdx is awesome
<DaveRoR>
Has there been any significant changes in the functionality of "extend"?
<pontiki>
i'd live there as well
<zendeavor>
i get bored in portland
<pontiki>
whoa
<zendeavor>
let's throw a party
<pontiki>
bored in portlandia??
<pontiki>
the city of quirk?
<zendeavor>
too much quirk
<zendeavor>
not enough substance
<zendeavor>
all shallow weird.
<pontiki>
hmm
<Nilium>
DaveRoR: Since when?
<zendeavor>
we stole "keep portland weird" from austin anyway
<pontiki>
i guess the folks i know are different
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<zendeavor>
there's some good people
<Nilium>
And has something changed for you?
<zendeavor>
most of the area is actually shallow hipster memes
<zendeavor>
like, just what they say on the interwebs about hipsters
<pontiki>
seattle is much the same way
<zendeavor>
screw it, i'm just gonna go to the LUG
<zendeavor>
real geeks.
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<pontiki>
but i do have some awesome friends there
<zendeavor>
neckbeard geeks.
<jrobeson>
i didn't think portland was that bad
<zendeavor>
yeah there's some really cool people. most, probably.
<zendeavor>
but you have to dig deep to get it outta them
<jrobeson>
i only accidentally moved there in the first place
<zendeavor>
hey me too
<jrobeson>
i was living in baltimore before that
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<jrobeson>
i went for a visit.. ended up staying for a few years
<zendeavor>
it's a fun place
<jrobeson>
made some friends.. and they are all begging me to come back
* Nilium
pokes DaveRoR
<jrobeson>
got plenty of couches to crash
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<pontiki>
living in SM was bad for socializing; LA has the weird thing going on it seems
<pontiki>
hard to make friends and just be friends
<DaveRoR>
Nilium: Since like, two years ago?
<pontiki>
just hang and talk and stuff
<Nilium>
Could you be more specific? Version numbers?
<jrobeson>
i found portland to be good for that
<Nilium>
Between vX and vY?
<pontiki>
me too, jrobeson
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<jrobeson>
so.. a real ruby question ..
<pontiki>
but LA -- maybe i was doing it wrong
<Nilium>
Is there something you're actually noticing or just asking if there are differences?
<DaveRoR>
Nilium: 1.9.2 and 1.9.3?
<pontiki>
a few ppl i met, no one would want to do anything
<jrobeson>
anybody used ruby-serial ? i saw some bugs about missing bytes.. and i'm just wondering if it's an endemic problem.. or just some random quirk..
<zendeavor>
dude
<zendeavor>
no one in portland wants to do anything but walk around downtown
<zendeavor>
i'm like
<jrobeson>
do what?
<DaveRoR>
Nilium: I suspect that the functionality of "extend" is messing with my rails app, that's why...
<jrobeson>
we went downtown to do stuff..
<jrobeson>
but we never hung out down there
<jrobeson>
i think you spent too much time in the pearl..
<sevenseacat>
extend is fine with rails
<zendeavor>
yeah like, hang out. downtown. doing nothing.
<jrobeson>
i lived in SE
<Nilium>
I don't think anything in extend changed in any significant or noticeable way in 1.9.2 to 1.9.3
<zendeavor>
just walk around
<pontiki>
actually, all the folks i know live away from town
<pontiki>
we just hang out
<jrobeson>
none of my friends are computer nerds
<Nilium>
If there's something wrong in your rails app, it's most likely something else you're doing wrong.
<sevenseacat>
yep.
<DaveRoR>
Nilium: Thanks!
<jrobeson>
i personally do like walking around downtown..
<jrobeson>
any and all downtowns
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<jrobeson>
everybody in pdx is like.. let's go hiking.. let's go to mt hood, or the falls, or blah blah blah
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<jrobeson>
the coast..
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<jrobeson>
let's go on 20 mile bikerides
<Nilium>
I went camping once in my life and I'm never doing it again. Camping made me realize that we have houses for a reason.
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<zendeavor>
everyone i know that wants to go hiking means "highking"
<Nilium>
Is that like a competitive king of the hill thing?
<zendeavor>
and they don't have vehicles
<zendeavor>
yes Nilium definitely.
<Nilium>
So lots of backstabbing and poisoning and so on?
<jrobeson>
everybody i know is too laid back for that kinda thing..
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<jrobeson>
that's the portland stereotype i know.. low ambition ..
<Nilium>
I'm pretty happy to just go on a bike ride around town or a walk or something. I don't need to put myself in the position to potentially die to be happy.
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<Nilium>
I mean I could go climb to the top of some mountain or go hiking in the snow or something equally likely to result in me slipping and falling to my death but I'm more okay with not doing that.
<jrobeson>
hmm.. should i write this in perl hmm..
<Nilium>
I should write more blog posts
<Nilium>
But after realizing I wasn't a super genius by writing code, I kind of stopped
<Nilium>
So now I just hoard all the stuff I've written.
<sevenseacat>
i keep meaning to start a blog
<Nilium>
Maybe I'll rewrite my blog gem and then blog about rewriting a blog gem.
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<Nilium>
OakTree certainly needs a giant internal thrashing.
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<pontiki>
how meta,not-meta,meta
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<Nilium>
I think that thereby negates meta-ness.
<pontiki>
i keep starting and stopping
<pontiki>
i like to write
<Nilium>
And then comes around full circle to "hey I have a severe case of NIH syndrome"
<sevenseacat>
i like to write too, i dont do a lot of it anymore
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<Nilium>
I like to write so much I got a degree in English :|
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<Nilium>
Still trying to get my fiction/nonfiction/poetry into a literary journal.
<Nilium>
That's the really annoying thing though -- I can't publish stuff myself if I want it in a journal.
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<Nilium>
At least not until it's already been in a journal
<sevenseacat>
last time i formally studied English, i failed it (in high school)
<Nilium>
I didn't go to high school, so I have no idea what it would've been like.
<Nilium>
Supposedly it's hell.
<sevenseacat>
home schooled?
<Nilium>
Yep.
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<sevenseacat>
nice
<Nilium>
Homeschooled and then went to a community college at 16. Made me want to eventually get a masters so I could teach at a CC.
<Nilium>
Not sure when I'll do the masters thing since I'm still sort of burnt out from the first four years.
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<pontiki>
hmm... used to be you could qualify to teach at CC with just a bachelor's
<pontiki>
not true any more?
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<pontiki>
still, by all means grab the masters
<pontiki>
i wish i had one
<pontiki>
mostly for the experience of studying something that intensely
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<sevenseacat>
i'd love to go back and study some more. i dont have the time or money though :(
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<pontiki>
but as i recall public high school (ages and ages ago), it was exceedingly homogenised, ruled by jocks and cheers, no one ever actually taught you the truth, and geeks, freaks, and queers were always at the bottom of everything
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<jrobeson>
not much different.. here or anywhere else
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<bnagy>
_anywhere_ else?
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<jrobeson>
american and anywhere else..
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<jrobeson>
where they have something like highschool..
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<bnagy>
...
<bnagy>
tell me more about your global survey of secondary education!
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<pontiki>
you going to subscribe to his newsletter?
<sevenseacat>
a bit different over here, no such 'jocks and cheers'
<pontiki>
nod
<pontiki>
my experience seems typical of US public schools, some better, some worse, some completely different, too
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<pontiki>
magnet schools, specialty schools, art schools, science schools...
<pontiki>
these things did not exist
<pontiki>
but my dad taught in public high schools
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<pontiki>
i survived
<pontiki>
mostly
<pontiki>
easier to jump out and get to uni
<pontiki>
but this was a long long time ago
<pontiki>
my girls had more opportunities for alternate education
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<pontiki>
one needed it, one did not
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<jrobeson>
i was just talking to some folks from germany, belgium and whatnot.. there seems to be a hierarchy wherever you go
<jrobeson>
oh.. australia sounded somewhat similiar
<jrobeson>
although.. not so much on the heterogenous education..
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<sevenseacat>
well a hierarchy, sure
<jrobeson>
i should have been clear.. i was mostly referring to cliques
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<sevenseacat>
cliques form in any sort of social environment
<bnagy>
especially ones that actively encourage them
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<jrobeson>
people of a certain age.. are people of a certain age..
<jrobeson>
i have a serial device that takes input from pressure sensors.. need to forward them to a web app
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<bnagy>
on windows?
<jrobeson>
nah.. on linux
<bnagy>
oh.. why does just reading from the device not work?
<jrobeson>
that's like asking why one would use cdparanoia to handle cd audio files vs cat /dev/cdrom > some iso
<jrobeson>
plus all all you get out of that is just plain gunk
<jrobeson>
unreadable characters
<jrobeson>
but when using minicom.. it'll actually convert it to hex.
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<bnagy>
ok, I'm going to go and not waste my time somewhere
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<l34ch_>
hello
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<Nilium>
I'd ask why converting it to hex is somehow valuable but it's better not to.
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<jrobeson>
Nilium, so i can read it ..
<Nilium>
But why do you need a gem to convert anything to hex?
<jrobeson>
anyways.. it works fine last time i did it in perl.. just wondered if anybody had any of the "missing bytes" issues mentioned in the ruby-serial issue tracker
<jrobeson>
if they had in fact used it
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<jrobeson>
Nilium, i don't need the gem for that
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<jrobeson>
i need the gem for reading from the port.. and sending the result to some webapp
<Nilium>
Why would a web-app need it in hex?
<jrobeson>
and i can't guarantee good results by reading from the device directly
<jrobeson>
that's irrelevant to using the gem..
<Nilium>
Oh well, I'll just assume you know what you're doing or don't know what you're doing
<Nilium>
You can be schrodinger's programmer.
<pontiki>
just stick the output from minicom onto a redis queue? web app reads it when it needs to?
<Nilium>
Unobserved, nobody has a clue if you know what you're doing.
<jrobeson>
Nilium, it doesn't matter.. i was just trying to find out .. if somebody who has used the ruby gem.. had in fact noticed missing bytes
<jrobeson>
that's it
<jrobeson>
because if they had.. that sounds pretty broken.. and i shouldn't boether with the gem
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<jrobeson>
there are many other other ways.. like using socat and forwarding the output directly..
<pontiki>
you don't have to write everything in the same language...
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<jrobeson>
surely don't.. it just makes it easier
<jrobeson>
i already did it once in perl.. quite easily
<pontiki>
that's what i'm saying, you implemented it once, easily, you know it works, use it
<jrobeson>
because it eases the depedencies for installing it ..
<jrobeson>
requiring perl just for that is not something i'd like to do .. unless i have to
<pontiki>
wat
<pontiki>
what distro does not come with perl ?
<jrobeson>
i currently use linux, but that doesn't mean the software will always be run on linux
<jrobeson>
although i hope it will.. that would make things easier certainly.. but i have no guarantee of that
<pontiki>
maybe not
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<jrobeson>
hmm.. sending it to redis is a good idea.. i'm not familiar with the protocol though
<pontiki>
but then again, if you have something that works, now, and you don't *know* it's going to be run anywhere else, you're burrowing into YAGNI
<jrobeson>
i was trying to think of where i'd put the bridge.. i could do a rest API
<jrobeson>
that was 9 years ago.. i don't have the code anymore
<pontiki>
ah, well that's a different issue then
<jrobeson>
i was only replying that i know i knew i didn't have to use ruby.. and could certainly use something else :)
<pontiki>
and i was saying use what you have, but it turns out you don't have it
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<jrobeson>
i was also trying to figure out next how i would bridge the serial port to the webapp..
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<pontiki>
even so, architecturally, i'd say what you are doing is speed matching things that run a different rates, an asynch solution like using a queue seems better than polling an api
<jrobeson>
so.. i could just use socat.. and do a raw tcp stream.. but i think that's a persistant connection..
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<jrobeson>
well this is send from serial.. so it wouldn't be polling
<pontiki>
wrong area
<jrobeson>
now submitting to the webapp.. i could do it with an api.. or just drop it in redis like you said
<pontiki>
that's what i am talking about
<jrobeson>
in this particular case.. i'm more used to hacking around shared nothing in php.. and dropping it into a mysql db directly
<pontiki>
in the api scenario, your web app will need to poll *something* to get the data
<pontiki>
not the serial port itself
<jrobeson>
that is.. i always had to work before managing queues in a way that worked with shared yuck hosting
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<pontiki>
in the redis scenario, it will consume the queu
<jrobeson>
so iwas trying to do it the right way this time
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<jrobeson>
i was also looking into seeing what i could do with gearman
<pontiki>
dunno gearman
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<jrobeson>
i've always wanted to play with redis.. this is one of the first times in all this time i've done web app coding where i've had a chance to control the entire stack..
<jrobeson>
i think i've spent my entire app dev career writing stuff that could work even in the most yuck situations like shared hosting :(
<jrobeson>
not really a big problem for web apps.. until you wanna do something likle this
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<pontiki>
i find it a problem for all but the most generic web apps
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<jrobeson>
hmm.. i don't recal having a problem.. only kinda hacky for queue management..
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<jrobeson>
well more than kinda ..
<jrobeson>
but it did work..
<pontiki>
i just have a hard time working via an ftp interface to manage the site
<jrobeson>
oh.. ftp.. no freakin way
<jrobeson>
i could never manage a site with ftp..
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<pontiki>
or control panels
<jrobeson>
i'm not the one who ever has to actually use them that way
<jrobeson>
i just make it so they can be used tha tway
<jrobeson>
i can't imagine not having ssh
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<pontiki>
so many of the cheap hosting plans don't allow any shell access
<jrobeson>
ah.. well there is a breaking point..
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<popl>
pontiki: if they allow shell access they've got to support shell access.
<pontiki>
and once you roll over it, wth, get a VPS
<pontiki>
they don't allow it
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<pontiki>
that's the point
<jrobeson>
sure.. vpses weren't exactly an option back then ..
<pontiki>
back.. when??
<jrobeson>
vps have only really been an option for uhmm.. maybe 6 years?
<jrobeson>
i took a break for awhile.. not sure when i remember seeing them
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<jrobeson>
dedicated servers were the only alternative for a long time
<jrobeson>
well and coloing..
<popl>
an ellipsis is ... or …, FYI
<popl>
;P
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<jrobeson>
ok?
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<pontiki>
i had a VDS back in like 02?
<jrobeson>
how much was that?
<jrobeson>
i don't really remembering seeing such things until usermode linux was a thing
<pontiki>
wait, are you saying not an option because of price or because of availability?
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<jrobeson>
i'm just trying to remember seeing any vdses before usermode linux
<jrobeson>
and i'm not remembering any
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<jrobeson>
perhaps they were bsd jailed ?
<pontiki>
price was like $600/yr
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<pontiki>
from godaddy
<pontiki>
the vps i have now from them is half that
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<jrobeson>
ah.. my memory of that is really shot then.. :(
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<jrobeson>
ok.. time to cry in my uhmm.. water
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<popl>
haha
<popl>
poor jrobeson
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* pontiki
refills jrobeson's glass
<popl>
I saw some flavor lab making bourbon-flavored water on Bizarre Foods :P
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<jrobeson>
pontiki, is that such a good idea?
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<pontiki>
i dunno
<pontiki>
is it not?
<pontiki>
thought you might be thirsty after spending all those tears. dun want you to get dehydrated...
<YaNakilon>
probably possible with .lazy .flat_map .take?
<YaNakilon>
i don't have 2.0 to test
<YaNakilon>
but idk how to start the expression
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<e-dard>
Hi, just wondering if anyone has any experience with creating a secured backend API, and a decoupled js-based UI, e.g., Backbone/Angular/whatever. I'm interested in athentication
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<e-dard>
The thoughts I had were: make the backend API token-based, i.e., and API token for each user. In web-app user sends user:pass using form and server responds with token in header
<e-dard>
web-app then uses the token in subsequent requests. All over SSL of course.
<e-dard>
Is this a common approach? Are there any issues here/
<bnagy>
... is login + cookie a common approach?
<bnagy>
uh... hmm. dunno...
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<e-dard>
bnagy: I want this to be stateless
<bnagy>
but webby question are probably going to get more traction in one of the rails channels
<bnagy>
well it's the web, it's all stateless
<e-dard>
bnagy: cool I try Rails
<e-dard>
bnagy: I'm not sure what you mean by "it's all stateless", but I'm talking about a more RESTful approach than one involving cookies and server-side processing of client state
<bnagy>
the web. Is all stateless.
<bnagy>
well modulo whatever this websocket crap is about
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<novaon>
is thr way i can create simple app to call trough a land phone and play a pre recorded voice file
<_br_>
Joel_re: Switch to Faraday and use a different HTTP adapter.
<shevy>
Joel_re, perhaps URI.escape ?
<Joel_re>
thanks
<Joel_re>
hrm, havent tried URI escape
<shevy>
I am not sure why .get truncates
<shevy>
could be a bug?
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<shevy>
how to check whether I am allowed to delete a file? when I try to delete a file that was protected via "chattr -i" before, ruby throws me an Errno::EPERM error
<shevy>
fileutils.rb:1406:in `unlink': Operation not permitted - /Depot/jjj/version-check.sh (Errno::EPERM)
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<mikecmpbll>
shevy: would File.writable? cover it
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<gazarsgo>
joshu: use curb :)
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<chrisseaton>
Hello. Where should I submit a possible docs bug for Ruby 1.9? I'm not sure from the info on https://bugs.ruby-lang.org.
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<shevy>
mikecmpbll let me test
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<shevy>
mikecmpbll hmm it seems to work, I think I will use it
<mikecmpbll>
shevy :)
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<joshu>
gazarsgo I only have the choice of using std lib net/http or the rest_client gem.
<gazarsgo>
no you don't
<gazarsgo>
provision a new webserver in heroku or amazon if you have to :)
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<shevy>
hmm is it "writeable" or "writable"
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<joshu>
gazarsgo my specific use case I only have those two choices. Anyway doesn't matter I've used net/http but just heard about rest_client so I'll give it a try and see which I prefer.
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<mikecmpbll>
shevy: writable.
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<shevy>
mikecmpbll cool, ok, I would have picked writeable
<lectrick>
What is the canonical way to raise a custom exception? raise MyExceptionClass ... or raise MyExceptionClass.new... or raise MyExceptionClass.new("some informative detail"), or?
<apeiros>
e-dard: StandardError is an acceptable superclass. However, I hope you don't actually name your exception 'Error'
<apeiros>
lectrick: depends
<apeiros>
lectrick: if your custom exception doesn't have additional attributes, then `raise YourException, "message"`
<lectrick>
apeiros: what is the real difference between raising the class itself and an instance of it? is the instance not necessary?
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<apeiros>
if it does have additional attributes, you'll have to use `raise YourException.new(*args)`
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<lectrick>
So there is no real reason to "raise MyException.new" then...?
<apeiros>
lectrick: raise YourClass will instantiate the exception for you
<lectrick>
ok
<apeiros>
lectrick: only if you have custom attrs or initializer
<lectrick>
ok
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<lectrick>
apeiros: thanks again as always
<endash>
Anyone know if its possible to programatically add queues to sidekiq
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<endash>
well my use case and this admittedly might sound obtuse
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<endash>
my app generates a crapload of notifications, so all that busywork gets offloaded to sidekiq so the API returns quickly. I want a given user's notifications to be processed in order, so I was thinking: create a queue for each user, and use sidekiq-limit_fetch to make each queue sequential
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<endash>
i also use sidekiq for more traditional background processing e.g. pdf generation and such so I want to stay with sidekiq if possible
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<_br_>
that makes sense
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<endash>
thing is it seems like sidekiq expects to know the queues ahead of time :/
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<_br_>
notifications crammed via AMQP into Rabbit and then processed. Sequentially? Is that necessary? Also, remember that sidekiq by default requires you to program your worker to perform idempotent
<xybre>
endash: can't you just communicate with the redis server?
<Xeago>
endash: if you want it to happen synchronously make it a single worker?
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<endash>
i want a given user's queue to be sequential. individual users can still be spread over additional workers
<Xeago>
let each step, queue up the next step?
<endash>
sequential is necessary because there's some expiration going on as well
<endash>
i think i need to think about how to make this more robust
<Xeago>
having each step queue the next step, is quite robust
<Xeago>
pain to manage tho
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<endash>
well as structured it's also possible for a failed worker, retrying much later, to generate notifications that can't be cleared because the operation that clears that notification has already happened
<endash>
which is bad
<endash>
im just gonna give this more thought
<endash>
thanks guys
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<yebyen>
can anyone say how to run simplecov from within rspec in a way such that none of your spec files wind up in the coverage report?
<Xeago>
yebyen: I think they are supposed to excluded in a config file
<yebyen>
i tried using a spec_helper file but it didn't change anything... the first (alphabetically) spec file does not show in the coverage report, but the second (and presumably later) would
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<yebyen>
Xeago: that makes sense
<Xeago>
I don't know how to out of my head tho :'(
<yebyen>
there aren't any configuration files for simplecov at present :)
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<yebyen>
what is going on with my internet today
<yebyen>
maybe it's the wireless
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<apeiros>
f'ing ddosers…
<shredding>
Ah, ok. The DOS attack may be caused by my ceo who is hitting F5 to see if our sdk is already live :)
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<spike|spiegel>
oh github can't take traffic? nothing new
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<spike|spiegel>
"large DDoS" we decide what's "large" give us the numbers.
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<YaNakilon>
ddosers are the same people as githubers
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<YaNakilon>
useless individuals, wasting time for fame, lulz, not profit
<Banistergalaxy>
Spike yeah yeah yeah
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<shredding>
Isn't DDOS always the reason?
<shredding>
Noone will ever say "Ups, we totally f****ed up"
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<xybre>
Well, Github is typically pretty honest about what they've fucked up.
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<graft>
can anyone explain this psych encode_with stuff to me?
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<graft>
like wth this coder object is
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<shevy>
why is it so hard to recover from DOS attacks?
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<yebyen>
well i changed to a .rspec config with --color --require=rspec_helper and that at least shows the spec files in the coverage analysis consistently, not omitting the first one. So, I am happy
<xybre>
shevy: give me your ip and I'll show you
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<shevy>
hmm
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<_br_>
shevy: Depends on your infrastructure. DDOS attacks normally take days. Also, you don't know who is doing a "bad" and a "good" request since they orginate from a large Botnet. Given proper Traffic Shaping, Rate limiting and sprinkeled in 5xx errors and multiple data centers with round robin dns, you can keep running even though being hammered massively. Quite a loss of money though. Fun starts when you have enough ressources to actuall
<shevy>
aha
<shevy>
so it is also hard to realize that a DDOS happens in the first place
<shevy>
ok but why are DDOS done actually?
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<_br_>
well, not really. If you do some monitoring you will notice a constant increase of many thousand percent which is obvious.
<shevy>
yeah, well, I did not think of botnets
<_br_>
Many reasons, black hats do that for fun but also for profit.
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<aedorn>
DDoS sometimes will expose vulnerabilities, or can be used as a distraction to exploit something else.
<_br_>
e.g. if you are a stock exchange traded company a blackout of your service can cause the stock to plummet on which you can bet making effectively money.
<_br_>
exactly
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<aedorn>
Most times it's just "we're taking your service down" kind of deal, but every now and again there's a deeper meaning. Take for instance when PlayStation Network was hacked a few years ago. That was a DDoS distraction to exploit a vulnerability.
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<_br_>
in the case of github, maybe they want to get access to a particular repo to taint it somehow causing a malicious patched version of some git tree being deployed.
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<_br_>
the sony people were asking for it, their security procedures were beyond a joke.
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<_br_>
and sony trys to keep this stuff secret wallering in their "security by obscurity"
<aedorn>
Right, just using it as an example of when it wasn't just to take the service down.
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<_br_>
jap
<_br_>
Botnets are facinating though. Particular C&C structure and the nitty gritty details
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<xybre>
_br_++
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<lectrick>
github back... what are the github alternatives? Hosting our own secure git repo I guess
<aedorn>
Though I'm still questioning why anyone is attacking GitHub. Large banks I get, GitHub ... not so much.
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<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
they should hit banks and not github
<lectrick>
Nobody understands. It's proof that whoever is in charge of the ddos botnet out there is an asshole
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<pontiki>
as if proof of that were needed...
<lectrick>
It's also a call to arms for anyone who wants to create the "decentralized github"
<xybre>
lectrick: gitlab
<aedorn>
We use GitLab here, but yeah, hosting your own git service is your only real alternative if you want to avoid things like this.
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<lectrick>
xybre: nice.
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<lectrick>
xybre: do they have the pull request functionality that github has? That's probably the feature we use most :/
<aedorn>
Decentralized GitHub is a pipe dream =p
<jokke>
hello
<_br_>
aedorn: Most black hats try to compromise secondary ressources to gain access to their primary target. Github maybe hosts a peace of software which is likely being used by some target they want to compromise. Could be many things though. Occrams razor might point to pure idiotism and "for fun" angle.
<lectrick>
aedorn: Decentralization is a hard problem which also solves some very real-world problems
<xybre>
There's also Atlassian Stash, but they also make Jira so I won't have anything to do with them.
<jokke>
i tried to google this, but i get only results for the other way around. I want to run capistrano tasks from rake
<jokke>
is this possible?
<lectrick>
GitHub took a decentralized VCS and effectively centralized it.
<jokke>
i could just use backticks of course but that'd be ugly
<lectrick>
xybre: what's wrong with jira? (we use it here)
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<_br_>
lectrick: True, one reason why Linus finds it a joke.
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<lectrick>
_br_: Which is fine, and yet github seems to be doing quite well
<shevy>
hmm but linus uses github too
<xybre>
lectrick: looks like gitlab supports merge requests
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<shevy>
I love issue reporting in github
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<lectrick>
github needs to figure out how to decentralize itself. somehow. they're smart enough.
<xybre>
lectrick: jira has been nothing but a waste of time at every company I've used, HR loves it for some reason, but the devs never find a use for it
<aedorn>
lectrick: I can only imagine the future git system will be like Skype, and everybody with a faster than 5Mbps upstream will become a supernode VCS server for partial pieces.
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<lectrick>
xybre: it's being used rather effectively here (or as effectively as a bug/feature tracker/PM app can seem to get, which is "not super effective"). Maybe it's the direction? :)
<ashp>
haha, I'm still trying to improve my ruby, I'm permanently stuck in the sort of intermediate zone where I "sort of get procs and blocks and lambdas and classes, but struggle to use any of it effectively"
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
ashp I still try to find a usecase for lambdas myself
<shevy>
blocks however are available to every method so they are always useful
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<ashp>
shevy: only thing that's helped me so far is I went through codeschool.com's "Ruby bits"
<ashp>
shevy: and those were incredibly helpful
<ashp>
i wish they had more pure ruby things as they really helped, they skipped all the beginner stuff of "here are variables, here are functions!" and dived right into the hard confusing bits
<shevy>
aha
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<shevy>
that would have only confused me if I would have started that way
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<blufsh>
what is the benefit here of putting factor in an array ?
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<blufsh>
I was missing something :S
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<wuest>
Listing ancestors up front might be a reasonable change to documentation, to avoid such issues.
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<apeiros>
it does list superclass and included modules
<Dysruption>
when utilizing cucumber and rspec, what is does a normal development cycle look like? cucumber main features first, then rspec the system edge cases?
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<amacleod>
Dysruption, last time I used it, the wheel-within-a-wheel diagram was pretty accurate.
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<Dysruption>
amacleod: never heard of that, you have a link?
<wuest>
apeiros: indeed; I meant finding a way of displaying them more prominently/clearly. "Where does $method come from" is a frequent enough question, and it's most often answerable by checking ancestors.
<apeiros>
wuest: hard. you'll never please everybody.
<apeiros>
when you move X up, people will come and complain that Y isn't placed more prominently.
<amacleod>
Dysruption, 1. Write cucumber scenario (RED), 2. Write RSpec cases to support scenario (all RED), 3. Write code until all RSpec cases are GREEN, 4. Add the RSpec cases you forgot, 5. Once scenario is GREEN, lather rinse repeat.
<wuest>
apeiros: very true. :)
<Dysruption>
amacleod: awesome, thank you.
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<Dysruption>
don't know how I ever coded before without TDD
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<amacleod>
Dysruption, hopefully by the time you get a few scenarios hammered out, you'll be at the point where you can re-use half or more of your supporting RSpec cases.
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<amacleod>
Also, in real life, I found I actually wrote 3 or 4 scenarios at once, and then revised whichever scenarios I worked on later in reaction to stuff I discovered while working on the first.
<Dysruption>
amacleod: what do you mean by writing rspec cases to support scenario? isn't that the equiv of cucmber steps
<Dysruption>
ah okay, I'm reading that now. just started
<amacleod>
But yeah, having a more-or-less one-to-one mapping between Cucumber steps and RSpec cases worked pretty well for me.
<amacleod>
Exceptions being Cuke steps that were actually defined in terms of other Cucumber steps.
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<Dysruption>
cool. amacleod is the Cucumber Book any good?
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<amacleod>
Or RSpec cases that I thought of while working on other stuff that didn't necessarily pertain to any Cucumber step that I was currently working on.
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<amacleod>
Dysruption, I haven't looked at the Cucumber book. I would imagine it builds on the RSpec book and goes more in-depth about BDD and how it differs from and/or augments TDD. Generally I've been well-impressed by Pragmatic books.
<amacleod>
They're not universally perfect, by any means, but they're generally good quality and get right to the meat of things.
<Dysruption>
Okay very cool, I'll work through the Rspec book and if I find myself wanting more I'll probably check it out
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<Olipro>
I hear Spinach is the new fad
<Olipro>
people need to stop naming their f*cking gems after vegetables
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<Olipro>
Dysruption: but seriously, before you get too into Cucumber, check out Spinach
<amacleod>
I can't find a reference to the diagram I'm thinking about, but I think it's in the RSpec book about 2/3 of the way through.
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<Dysruption>
Olipro: can you tell me the benefits?
<Olipro>
it's like Cucumber, powered by Gherkin, but more natural, none of the nasty regexing
<Olipro>
here's a good article on it: blog.codegram.com/2011/10/how-to-achieve-more-clean-encapsulated-modular-step-definitions-with-spinach
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<Olipro>
"Spinach is powered by Gherkin and nicer than Cucumber" - sounds like the ravings of a lunatic
<Dysruption>
I'll definitely check it out, thanks Olipro
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<amacleod>
Pickle-powered development. Full of antioxidants. But yeah, Spinach sounds neat... the Gherkin parser is really the nicest thing about Cucumber.
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<Dysruption>
I like that feature steps are in a class
<Olipro>
gherkin, cucumber, spinach... maybe throw some Carrot and Cabbage in there
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<amacleod>
chard, kale, arugula
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<Dysruption>
well dammit now I'm just reading this RSpec book just thinking about how I should use Spinach instead
<amacleod>
Hopefully Spinach is enough like Cucumber that you can adapt the examples without too much sweat.
<Dysruption>
it seems like it
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<lewellyn>
amacleod: that's a quote of the day.
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<lewellyn>
i didn't pay attention to which channel i was in and it read quite amusingly.
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<amacleod>
Olipro's statement about the sanity of talking about veggie-themed gems is so very, very, very true.
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<Olipro>
lewellyn: ohai
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<lewellyn>
Olipro: mu
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<Olipro>
so, you're a Rubyist too eh?
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<lewellyn>
amacleod: i still find it a wonder that ruby has any enterprise presence with the names of some of the gems.
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<lewellyn>
Olipro: i'm $everywhere
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<Olipro>
ahaha, I know that feel
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<lewellyn>
but i've been around long enough that i preordered the pickaxe book ;)
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<MasterAsia>
I've been around since DHH released rails 3.2
<MasterAsia>
that was..pretty recent.
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<Olipro>
heh
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<Olipro>
Ruby's so wonderful, you don't need a book to learn it!
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<amacleod>
Its online documentation has gotten much better since 1.8 (which is about when I started using Ruby).
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<amacleod>
Not that it was awful back then, just a little confusing when trying to figure out where methods came from.
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<reactormonk>
What's a fast way to find a string inside a directory of files? We're talking about 250GB of data here and I want to know in which file it is.
<amacleod>
In Ruby specifically?
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<reactormonk>
Well, I'm running jruby. You could shell out too.
<amacleod>
If not, there are utility programs to do that. On Linux, I'd recommend 'ack-grep'. On Windows, GrepWin.
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<Olipro>
shunt: mentioning a perl program in #ruby is heresy!
<reactormonk>
shunt, I think that's too slow :-/
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<MasterAsia>
reactormonk: these are textfiles?
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<Neener54>
would the silver searcher be useful?
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<shunt>
i thought that's what amacleod was referring to; seems no more heretical than mentioning windows :)
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<reactormonk>
MasterAsia, yup
* amacleod
started all the heresy this time, he will freely admit.
<reactormonk>
MasterAsia, well, XML and some more.
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<amacleod>
Neener54, thanks for mentioning silver searcher... I might switch to that from ack. :)
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<banisterfiend>
Neener54: what language is the silver search written in?
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<banisterfiend>
ah, C
<Neener54>
banisterfiend he he, you beat me to it
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<epitron>
ag is pretty great
<epitron>
it's got a troublesome name though
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<banisterfiend>
epitron: oh hello epitron.
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<banisterfiend>
epitron: I just wonder if it has the same level of integration
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<banisterfiend>
i normally use ack through emacs
<banisterfiend>
i guess if it's similar enough to ack i can just opint emacs at the ag executable instead
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<amacleod>
Seems like the author took pains to make ag's interface enough like ack's that it slots into most tools without pain.
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<epitron>
yeah, ack supports some more advanced stuff
<epitron>
and it's usually fast enough
<epitron>
ag is a great powertool
<epitron>
and it saves you typing an extra letter
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<epitron>
and all letters are on the left side of the keyboard
<epitron>
:D
<brisbin>
git grep (aliased as gg) is good enough for me
<epitron>
so i use ag more than ack
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<epitron>
2 letter commands ftw
<amacleod>
epitron, actually, each letter is on an opposite side of my Dvorak keyboard, making it a nice comfortable two-hand two-stroke gesture. :-P
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<epitron>
whatever, weirdo!
<epitron>
;)
<amacleod>
(correct response detected)
<epitron>
haha
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<MasterAsia>
amacleod: makes me wonder if there is a science to keyboard key placement
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<amacleod>
MasterAsia, there is a religion to keyboard key placement.
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<MasterAsia>
orly
<amacleod>
Kind of. There's a long and possibly sordid history of keyboard design.
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<amacleod>
Weirdoes like me prefer Dvorak because all the vowels are left-hand home keys and the most common consonants are right-hand home keys. A couple of the axioms behind Dvorak are that less motion is better for typists and alternating between left and right hands is also better.
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<amacleod>
I'm forgetting to cite sources, but various studies have shown that the difference isn't all that big after all. That said, the world record for typing speed was set using a Dvorak layout.
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<Morrolan>
How long did it take you to get used to it? :)
<amacleod>
The niftiest smear anecdote we Dvorakers have against QWERTY is that the QWERTY layout arose because typewriter manufacturers had to make typing harder to slow typists down to prevent jamming.
<amacleod>
Morrolan, a couple of months, but I was pretty young at the time. I'd expect an adult to take maybe 2 months of intensive training or 4 months of casual use to become comfortable.
<matled>
that sounds about right
<matled>
the worst moment is when you are equally bad with both keyboard layouts
<Morrolan>
Hmm, might have to get a labeled keyboard, and start practicing. :)
<Morrolan>
With my current keyboard that would lead to a giant mess. *snrk*
<matled>
I felt so helpless sitting in front of the keyboard and not being able to type with a decent speed, neither with qwerty nor dvorak
<matled>
I think you should be fine then. I bet there are good online courses out there that show you the keyboard while giving you training sessions that focus on the home row first and progress gradually to use more keys
<Morrolan>
amacleod: I'm using one of those, actually.
* amacleod
apologizes for derailing #ruby from talking about Ruby. The moment an actual Ruby question comes along, I will totally shut up.
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<Morrolan>
Oh, the new models include an USB hub? That would have been a nice thing to have.
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<matled>
oh. one of the hardest part of learning dvorak are all those key bindings in programs, as I noticed that I remember most of them by which key to press, not which letter to press.
<matled>
vim was really strange for a while
<amacleod>
I know for a a fact that there are editions of Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing that support Dvorak.
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<Morrolan>
matled: I can imagine. :)
<amacleod>
Haha. It took me a long while to realize that the movement keys in Nethack were positionally arranged, and not just random gibberish.
<Morrolan>
Especially since there's some key combos where I shift my hands away from the typing position.
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<matled>
hjkl isn't too bad, jk are on the left hand and hl on the right hand, and the ordering is right, too.
<amacleod>
The most annoying part for me is playing first-person shooters that use WASD for movement. First thing I have to do when playing a new game is go to the keyboard settings.
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<Morrolan>
Heh.
<matled>
yeah, but I'd do that anyway and use sdfe, so you have more keys to use with your pinky :)
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<matled>
no idea why someone thought moving the hand one place to the left would be a good idea
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<mml>
has anyone heard of reports of Marshal dump/load issues in ruby2.0p247?
<mml>
"null byte in string" specifically
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<MasterAsia>
amacleod: I'd say just screw it
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<MasterAsia>
Fck Dvorak if it causes that much trouble
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<amacleod>
MasterAsia, which part?
<MasterAsia>
I'd take a 10% hit to typing speed for convenience
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<MasterAsia>
(having to change controls for every fps game?)
<amacleod>
MasterAsia, you'd pretty much be right. I still like it because I learned so young and it's therefore comfortable to me.
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<MasterAsia>
convert convert!
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<matled>
one point for dvorak may be if you have problems with your hands/wrists
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<Morrolan>
I could imagine that it's healthier, yea. But if you've got problems, then one of those ergonomic keyboards might be a better help than a different keyboard layout.
<matled>
a friend of mine had problems when using qwerty with his wrists until he switched to dvorak
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<matled>
well, you can do both :)
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<shevy>
cannot load such file -- rake/extensiontask
<shevy>
hmm anyone knows this error?
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<amacleod>
Sounds like it might be part of rake-compiler? (which is a thing I do not know about)
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<reactormonk>
how do I include a module to toplevel? I did some class << self; <code> ; end magic in the module, but include Module doesn't
<reactormonk>
make the methods accessable.
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<amacleod>
reactormonk, I don't think you can.
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<amacleod>
reactormonk, there are some contexts where you can include things in what _seems_ like the "top level". For instance Rake has some fancy stuff where you can include modules... What it's actually doing is including them on whatever class its environment is stored in.
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<maasdesigner>
hi
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<Nilium>
One time there was a squirrel and it was my friend and I gave it some bread and it looked pretty happy the end.
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<maasdesigner>
is this :hide_sections ruby command in that code or rails command <%= render '/refinery/content_page', :hide_sections => :body_content_title %> ?
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<amacleod>
It looks like one association of a hash, which Rails probably interprets as a directive of some sort.
<amacleod>
Well, when I say "one association of a hash" I probably mean "a Hash with one association".
<amacleod>
It also looks like the second argument to the 'render' function.
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<amacleod>
So the documentation for 'render' might tell you more about what it means to put a :hide_sections key there.
<Nilium>
maasdesigner: If you have to ask, it's almost always rails. Plus you should ask the rails channel, not the ruby channel.
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<Nilium>
Anyway, chances are render has a definition something like def render(something, **args) and just takes a hash of stuff.
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<maasdesigner>
Nilium: i wasnt sure its about ruby or rails and i first asked here and thank you for comments also amacleod
<Nilium>
Well, if you knew Ruby, you'd have known already.
<Nilium>
And if you're using Rails without knowing Ruby, holy hell are you in for a world of pain
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<maasdesigner>
Nilium: yes you are right and i am suffering now.
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<Nilium>
So if I just dump a bucket of spiders on you, would that be more suffering or less suffering? Trying to get an idea of the current level of suffering.
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<Nilium>
How about ladybugs?
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<Nilium>
A bucket of ladybugs would probably be an improvement if I were using PHP right now.
* amacleod
is not sure how spiders in a bucket are relevant to Ruby programming, but it's a delightful mental image.
<bsdbandit>
hello wall
<bsdbandit>
all
<Nilium>
A bucket of spiders is relevant to Ruby in discerning how much one's suffering increases by using Rails without knowing Ruby.
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Companion is now known as companion
<Nilium>
If the bucket of spiders makes things better, then we have a way to begin approximating the suffering induced by rails
<Nilium>
It's kind of like a binary search.
<amacleod>
Test and correct... makes sense.
<maasdesigner>
Nilium: im graphic designer and last 3 months almost i look ruby and ruby on rails
<aedorn>
Wasn't there a console recording app that was like super easy to use? Something .io ....
<Nilium>
Should I take that to mean that spiders improve rails?
<aedorn>
Times like these are what bookmarks are for. Maybe one day I'll start using those.
<Nilium>
Looks like that one's a little iffy though
<maasdesigner>
Nilium: so you suggest me to go back first learn ruby ? with some test examples ? like koans? i've finished ruby lessons in code school and codecademy then i passed to rails directly maybe its my fault i jump to rails early
<Nilium>
Also, if you aren't actually coding in Ruby, koans, lessons, etc. are all wasted.
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<Nilium>
Oh, right, forgot to mention aedorn's name so I'd ping him.
<Nilium>
Look up.
<aedorn>
no, I saw, sorry.. just yeah.
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<Nilium>
Anyway, maas, if you're not invested in coding, you're going to be a shite coder. You don't want to be a shite coder, so try to come up with some personal non-rails/webdev projects first and build them in Ruby.
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<Nilium>
That is, build things that aren't related to web development, 'cause everything I've seen of webdev in Ruby results in heavily obfuscating logic.
<maasdesigner>
Nilium: ok i highly getting this as advice to my brain thank u
<Nilium>
O_o
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* Nilium
thinks he'll go get a cup of coffee.
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<zendeavor>
you may need it
<aedorn>
oh, didn't see ascii.io.. yes.. that's what I think I was looking at.
<aedorn>
I think I need coffee, too.
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<platzhirsch>
What's up in the Ruby mine
<Nilium>
Buckets of spiders/ladybugs.
<zendeavor>
oh the horror
<Nilium>
Fun-fact: you can actually buy a bucket of ladybugs.
<zendeavor>
oh the suffers
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<maasdesigner>
Nilium: if i post my blog here does it going as spam ?
<linduxed>
amacleod: so an Item could have the name of "Matrix" would have the category of "Movie" and would have the secondary_attr of whatever-the-year-was-it-was-released
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<amacleod>
linduxed, and you just know what the secondary_attr means by looking at its category and having rules defined for each category?
<linduxed>
another item might have the name "The Trial", the category of "Book" and the secondary_attr of "Franz Kafka"
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<linduxed>
now it might be that i have an actual Book, Movie and Whathaveyou class
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<linduxed>
and they could actually house it in more sensible names, like @author and stuff like that
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<amacleod>
linduxed, if I were designing something like this, I would have a hash called "attributes", and put in {year: 1999}, {author: "Franz Kafka"} and such.
<linduxed>
but all of them need to respond to something like secondary_attr, and i'm not sure about that name
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<amacleod>
Since you already have arbitrary rules for the semantics of secondary_attr, those rules could also embed the symbol needed to look the thing up in attributes.
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<ganeshran>
Has anyone written a custom strategy for ominauth based on omniauth-oauth2?
<amacleod>
Actually, since the secondary attribute seems always to be a single value, you could use "datum". It's enough different from "data" to not totally fall into the "this is a horribly generic term" trap, while still remaining generic enough to never be incorrect.
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<linduxed>
amacleod: never heard "datum" ever, but i do like it
<amacleod>
It's the singular of "data". (data being the Latin for, roughly "pieces of information")
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<amacleod>
I mean, if you want to make it deliberately offensive so that people are inclined to go to the class's accessor instead of using the underlying "secondary_attr" message, you could choose something weird and ungainly and not really related to its meaning like "barnacle".
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<amacleod>
Or "carbuncle"... that evokes the notion that the attribute is an extraneous egregious thing that sticks out and should be filed off and covered with a band-aid. :-P
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<linduxed>
i'm not a big fan of names which make you scratch your head and force you to have a look at the implementation :-P
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<shevy>
hmm I would have thought of datum as the german name for date
<linduxed>
well it is date in swedish
<amacleod>
Well, you've got a continuum then. "data" is so generic that people will just gloss over it with a shrug. "spidwhicket" is weird enough that people will _have_ to look at the implementation to get it.
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<linduxed>
amacleod: i think secondary_attr is the best one so far then :-/
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<amacleod>
I suppose if your audience is European, using "datum" would have a nonzero chance of causing confusion when a Swede or a German wonders why it isn't always a date.
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<amacleod>
ooh, ooh. What about "addendum"?
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<amacleod>
Just means "thing added on".
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<babykosh>
is there a sublime text channel out here?
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<Nilium>
babykosh: Yes, #sublimetext.
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<babykosh>
Thank you
<zendeavor>
babykosh: /msg alis help
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<zendeavor>
coming to ruby for webdev is a silly idea
<rajath>
well, not exactly
<rajath>
I was gonna use RoR for web dev
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<rajath>
so thought of learning Ruby first
<zendeavor>
blegh
<zendeavor>
it's good to learn ruby first, of course
<rajath>
but RoR is not really a good idea, you say?
<zendeavor>
it can be a fine idea
<zendeavor>
it's just monolithic frameworks are usually rather unnecessary
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<zendeavor>
great for big corporate app servers and stuff (maybe)
<zendeavor>
personal projects are better served by rolling your own, or sticking with a smaller thing that fits just your needs
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<rajath>
okay
<zendeavor>
if you're expecting to need to scale up to a billion hits a day or something, sure, go RoR
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<zendeavor>
in either case, learn ruby because you're interested in ruby. not because you're interested in webdev.
<zendeavor>
python can do webdev just the same.
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<rajath>
hmm
<rajath>
then I can probably use Python
<rajath>
since I know Python already
<zendeavor>
i don't want to discourage you from ruby, mind
<rajath>
:)
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<zendeavor>
but just...don't pick it because RoR
<rajath>
ohh.. Okay
<rajath>
yeah.. Makes sense
<workmad3>
plenty of people do pick ruby because of RoR
<zendeavor>
they do, and it's utterly silly.
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<Nilium>
And I hate them for it >:|
<workmad3>
and RoR used to be a nice framework for easing your way into web-dev without having to know everything before you start (less so now, IMO)
<Nilium>
Ruby is too awesome to just be known for Rails
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<zendeavor>
ruby and python are essentially equivalent languages
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<amacleod>
zendeavor, that's like saying Java and C# are essentially equivalent languages.
<workmad3>
zendeavor: I dislike python... I find it annoyingly verbose and rigid in its approaches compared to ruby
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<zendeavor>
amacleod: do you know why?
<zendeavor>
because it's true
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<workmad3>
zendeavor: you've not done much java or C#, have you? :)
<zendeavor>
makes me sick
<Nilium>
Java and C# are essentially equivalent aside from C# basically being a better Java with more features.
<Nilium>
Which is like saying one form of herpes is better than another, but that's neither here nor there.
<amacleod>
zendeavor, well, I suppose you can say that every Turing-complete language is equivalent to every other Turing-complete language.
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<zendeavor>
now you're really reaching
<Nilium>
In terms of general structure, C# and Java code is usually pretty similar.
<zendeavor>
let's not devolve into a semantic debate, okay?
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<Nilium>
I think that's fair to say.
<workmad3>
well, any program written in one turing-complete language can be translated into another turing-complete language
<zendeavor>
the abstractions available are rather similar
<amacleod>
I'll grant that Ruby and Python are very similar in many regards. Still, they're different enough that I disagree with your statement that they are essentially equivalent.
<workmad3>
(if you take 'program' to include all supporting code down to the bare metal)
<Nilium>
I disagree mostly with Python and Ruby being similar just because Python comes across as stricter and less.. friendly to object-oriented code.
<amacleod>
They have different visual aesthetics, for one thing. Which matters.
<workmad3>
python and ruby are superficially similar
<Nilium>
The impression I get is that they're similar because both use 'def'
* zendeavor
boggle
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<Nilium>
Anyway, zendeavor's like the resident troll so it's fine
<zendeavor>
that's prevailing wisdom
<zendeavor>
wrong, but prevailing.
<workmad3>
however, they have different philosophies driving development, different communities, different ecosystems (python's easy-install is, IMO, one of the worst atrocities around), different idioms, different views of design elegance...
<amacleod>
Well I, for one, just got trolled.
<Nilium>
Let's talk about how perl is dying
<Nilium>
Who wants to defend perl?
<zendeavor>
someone tried that crap already
<Nilium>
I know, I kicked it off last time :D
<Nilium>
Or recently.
<Nilium>
Maybe it happens more often than I thought.
<workmad3>
Nilium: perl 6 is awesome, I installed it today with 'ruby-build 2.0.0-p448'
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<Nilium>
Well played.
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<rajath>
guys, coming back to my question.. Should I use a specific Python framework for web dev or just plain web programming in Python?
<Nilium>
Also, Do you mean 1.9.3-p448?
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<Nilium>
rajath: Wrong room.
<workmad3>
Nilium: no, I mean 2.0.0-p247
<amacleod>
rajath, you might be better off asking the Python community.
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<pontiki>
not necessarily
<pontiki>
Open3 has a bunch of methods
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<pontiki>
Open3#popen3 gives you control over stdin, stdout, and stderr, but it has some caveats you have to watch out for
<pontiki>
such as possible blocking on the stdout and stderr
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<jeremyb>
working on installing https://github.com/calagator/calagator ; i have the specified versions of gem and ruby. (1.3.7 / 1.8.7); i keep getting an error about the format of a gemspec file. (i very recently blew away ~/.gem and ~/.gems and started from scratch)
<jeremyb>
> WARNING: Invalid .gemspec format in "$HOME/.gems/specifications/themes_for_rails-0.5.1.gemspec"
<jeremyb>
any ideas?
* jeremyb
is not a ruby person
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<jeremyb>
also, Could not find factory_girl_rails-1.7.0 in any of the sources
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<Neener54>
jeremyb I'm assuming you reinstalled the gems right?
<Neener54>
jeremyb are you using bundler?
<jeremyb>
Neener54: the instructions say to run `bundle`. that's what i did
<jeremyb>
Neener54: the guy sitting next to me found something that mentioned `bundle install` so that's running now. but the docs just say `bundle`
<Neener54>
jeremyb Well the invalid gem spec probably isn't a huge concern, I've seen gems with that issue before that worked just fine.
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<Neener54>
jeremyb running 'bundle' will do a bundle install if nothing is passed to it
<jeremyb>
k
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<jeremyb>
Neener54: it's preceeded by a significant amount of output (i guess stderr, but maybe stdout)
<jeremyb>
seems like raw, uninterpreted ruby
<Neener54>
Could you create a gist of it and link it?