apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<Nilium> There's a bot for eval.in
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<thecodethinker> >> puts "a"
<eval-in> thecodethinker => a ... (https://eval.in/43677)
<thecodethinker> oh cool
<thecodethinker> I tried self.attr_accessor but it gave me an error :'(
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<Nilium> Obviously it would.
<thecodethinker> oh... I need to be able to define the variable without a method being called... can you do that with ruby
<thecodethinker> Nilium: I'm kinda new to ruby :3
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<Nilium> How did you miss the entire example I gave you? O_o
<thecodethinker> Nilium: I thought you were trying something :'(
<thecodethinker> what does class << self do exactly?
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<Nilium> Basically opens the singleton class.
<thecodethinker> so exposes the private functions of Object?
<Nilium> Probably more or less the same as self.singleton_class.class_exec { ... }
<thecodethinker> hmm... class << self is simpler
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<Nilium> >> class <<(A = Module.new) ; attr_accessor :b ; end ; A.b = 5; A.b
<eval-in> Nilium => 5 (https://eval.in/43678)
<Nilium> Also fun.
<thecodethinker> Nilium: Is there a way to define a variable withought any method being classed?
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<Nilium> Any method being classed?
<thecodethinker> called* sorry
<Nilium> For what you're asking? No.
<thecodethinker> hmm.....
<thecodethinker> alright :D thanks
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<zachrab> how do i structure a sinatra web app?
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<shevy> on #sinatra
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<Nilium> Yay, recruiter spam
<Nilium> I'd not gotten any in so long.
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<sml0820> Nilium: Trying to learn ruby. do you have any idea why when i create my bingo board, it generates the same random number for every board https://gist.github.com/sml0820/6d1f2f419a6b4a7208f2
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<Nilium> Define 'same random number'
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<Nilium> 'Cause a number being the same doesn't mean it's not random.
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<sml0820> I think it generates a random hash of numbers twice, but then only the second one gets put into the array @bingo_cards, but it gets put in twice if two users, three times if three etc.
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<Nilium> Did you try debugging it?
<sml0820> Nilium: here is the whole game if needed, not that long. https://gist.github.com/sml0820/5eedbcb0fbde524c0033
<Nilium> Even just printf debugging by throwing puts x.inspect everywher.e
<shevy> hey
<Nilium> 'Cause I'm honestly not going to bother reading your code. It's not commented and I don't know what you're doing.
<shevy> everywhe.e
<shevy> epic method call
<shevy> damn it
<Nilium> You dropped an r, shevy
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<shevy> I forgot a r
<shevy> :(
<Nilium> Might as well just go jump off a cliff now
<shevy> yeah but it's too late and I am too lazy
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<shevy> I'm just going to sit here until I compiled mozilla's javascript engine
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<sml0820> it is commented and its 20 lines
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<shevy> it wants "Netscape Portable Runtime"
<Nilium> sml0820: The one you linked above is not commented and is 52 lines. Your move.
<sml0820> and i am creating a bingo game
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<Nilium> Scratch that, Borderlands 2 time.
<shevy> sml0820 well that would be cool
<shevy> I have some bad luck with ruby games :(
<sml0820> there are two methods - one sets up the board, and the other creates numbers for it
<shevy> after a day's sleep, I usually abandon a game project
<Nilium> I have a small 3D demo thingy working where you can fly around a quad, but that's it.
<shevy> and that uses ruby?
<Nilium> Yes.
<sml0820> one is called def start_game, which creates the board. the other called pick_number picks the number for it. pick number picks the same number for each new game, for every user.
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<shevy> I once tried to create lots of games in ruby-gnome
<shevy> card games and such
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<ravster> Hey all, we are doing a capybara test with phantomjs as the driver, and my test logs show a redirect 302, but capybara doesn't seem to realise that a redirect has happened. any pointers on how to figure out whats going on?
<looped> i have a question about bundler. im setting up a host as root, but i want the app to run as a specific user. when i do sudo -u ${username} bundle install , i get a permission denied error on /root/.bundler. however if i run bundle install after sudo su - ${username} it goes through.
<pontiki> try: sudo -u ${username} -c 'bundle install'
<pontiki> not sure if that will make a diff
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<looped> you mean sudo -u ${username} sh -c 'bundle install' ?
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<zendeavor> lose the layer
<zendeavor> sudo -u user -i
<zendeavor> do things.
<Nilium> https://gist.github.com/nilium/17f5ab268af46fa16598 ← For shevy. Basically just a 3D view that you can move around a quad. Also requires stuff I haven't released, so it doesn't actually run. >_>
<popl> "Here's some code that looks pretty but doesn't work."
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<popl> basically? :)
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<looped> zendeavor: thanks. worked like a charm with a -p thrown in.
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<Nilium> popl: More or less.
<Nilium> The only issue is that I haven't put d2d.rb into gametool
<Nilium> s
<popl> Nilium: I wish you well.
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<shevy> hmm that is quite a lot of code Nilium
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<platzhirsch> Can I get the module defining the instance method inside the scope of the method?
<platzhirsch> something like self.module
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<platzhirsch> one way I found is to write self.method(:my_method).owner
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<diegoviola> i'm trying to learn about unit testing, how do you test method parameters, to make sure they will receive parameters, etc
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<diegoviola> i've noticed rspec has something like mocks receive()
<diegoviola> should i be using mocks/stubs for this?
<diegoviola> i'm kind of new on this so excuse for the ignorance
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<sam113101> guys
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<sam113101> why is back
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<pontiki> diegoviola: good question!
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<pontiki> mocks, stubs, doubles, etc, are mainly for testing things your code calls or uses.
<pontiki> you generally don't mock out the methods you are testing
<pontiki> bear in mind i can't tell you all about unit testing in irc...
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<pontiki> i suggest getting the rspec book
<diegoviola> thanks
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<ShalokShalom> the best recomended books, to learn ruby in German?
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<zendeavor> the same ones in english
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<zendeavor> if you can find a translation of programming ruby, aka the pickaxe
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<diegoviola> nice, concurrency in rbx is really nice
<diegoviola> just ran some code in different threads, it seems to use all my cpu cores nicely
<diegoviola> and all code runs in parallel, etc
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<diegoviola> wish the unicode stuff just worked too in rbx
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<diegoviola> just added # encoding: utf-8 to my file and it works fine in rbx, sweet
<diegoviola> puts "こんにちは世界"
<diegoviola> :p
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<epitron> diegoviola: holy smokes
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<diegoviola> what
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<epitron> i didn't know rbx was magic happy thread land
<epitron> that's a good reason to play with it
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<diegoviola> yeah i heard they fixed tons of concurrency stuff in master
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<diegoviola> and that they removed the GIL
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<diegoviola> etc
<diegoviola> it seems to rock
<epitron> poor gil
<diegoviola> heh
<epitron> i did hear that it has some weird issues... like the fact that the GC has to collect garbage from the VM itself, as well as user code
<epitron> so, if you have a program that has no variables, you're still going to get a lot of slow GC runs
<diegoviola> oh
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<diegoviola> interesting
<epitron> s/variables/objects/
<diegoviola> i see
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<diegoviola> but in ruby everything's an object, what do you mean a program without objects? :P
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<Mon_Ouie> puts(nil, true, false, :puts) # not creating any new object
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<heftig> epitron: so does MRI. stack frames are garbage-collected, for example
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<waxjar> rbx replaced the GIL with 40 or so smaller locks i believe
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> is that good or bad?
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<waxjar> good i suppose, you can do things in parallel with it
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<waxjar> i imagine it's harder to maintain, though
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<shevy> hmm
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<dann1> hey, anyone on?
<shevy> yeah dann1
<dann1> ah nice
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<dann1> I'm getting errors while trying to parse a file with YAML
<dann1> and the settings file is http://puu.sh/44I1f.yml
<shevy> dann1 did you try the same file via syck?
<dann1> not really
<shevy> require 'yaml'; YAML::ENGINE.yamler = 'syck'
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<dann1> I'm still sorta curious what that error is for, but I'll check if it works that way
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<shevy> as for that error you have, I never before saw it
<MrZYX> parses fine here, are you sure that's the exact file?
<shevy> but I hate psych anyway
<dann1> exact file
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<MrZYX> get main.rb to dump what it passes to YAML.load
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<dann1> syck is getting it through perfectly
<dann1> what the hell, psych
<MrZYX> hm, encoding?
<dann1> maybe, i din't check
<shevy> yeah dann1
<dann1> it was in UTF-8, I believe that's the usual encoding for yaml
<shevy> syck was sweet
<shevy> psych is nazi
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<shevy> syck was buggy too though
<shevy> it accepted yaml files that were not in UTF encoding
<MrZYX> dann1: what's Encoding.default_external ?
<shevy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaml -> "YAML streams are encoded using the set of printable Unicode characters, either in UTF-8 or UTF-16."
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<dann1> CP850
<dann1> that's Encoding.default_external
<apeiros_> shevy: I think you hate everything new
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<apeiros_> anything non-unicode these days is just silly :-p
<dann1> okay, this is weird
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<MrZYX> dann1: try to get that to utf-8
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<dann1> I get bad arguments when set to utf-8
<apeiros_> precise error'
<apeiros_> ?
<dann1> but set to utf-8 minus BOM it works
<apeiros_> utf-8 has no bom
<apeiros_> bom is for utf-16 and up
<MrZYX> apeiros_: btw /nick apeiros ;)
<dann1> then I fucked up
<apeiros_> apeiros_ is an awesome nick!
<MrZYX> but... but... color! :P
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<MrZYX> :)
<apeiros> your chat client sucks
<apeiros> I hope you appreciate what I did, JUST FOR YOU!
<apeiros> :-p :)
<MrZYX> I do^^
<dann1> geez guys
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<shevy> apeiros, nah, syck was great
<apeiros> shevy: syck had bugs bigger than trucks
<shevy> apeiros I did not notice any of them
<apeiros> good for you
<shevy> yes
<dann1> bugs bigger than trucks
<apeiros> not saying psych was without issues, but it's better than syck
<dann1> that has a nice ring to it
<dann1> i wonder..
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<unsmell> yess
<shevy> what game is that dann1?
<unsmell> my own game, under dev
<shevy> aaaah
<shevy> on gosu
<unsmell> still working out the core parts
<unsmell> gosu is great most of the time
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<unsmell> okay, so I switched to UTF-8 wo/ BOM and now?? http://puu.sh/44Ite.png
<unsmell> I think the data passed onto menuwindow.rb is jacked up
<shevy> hmm
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<unsmell> i'm back
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<joshu> hi I have a question about lambdas. From Ruby Monk http://rubymonk.com/learning/books/1-ruby-primer/chapters/34-lambdas-and-blocks-in-ruby/lessons/77-lambdas-in-ruby I understand that lambda { } and lambda do..end are interchangeable just that the latter is the preferred way for multiple lines.
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<joshu> However I have seen lambda { } and lambda { |event| } and I don't understand the difference. Why the |event| variable in the lambda ?
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<unsmell> oh.
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<unsmell> uhm, when you do lambda.call, you can do arguments within that method
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<unsmell> following your example, it'd be .call(event)
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<shevy> joshu the || is just a name you assign to a variable
<shevy> if you dont need it, you can omit it like in lambda { }
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<joshu> so it's like when you define a method. lambda { } is similar to def something end. lambda { |event| } is like def something(event) end ?
<unsmell> you can also do that with do |var| ... end
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<unsmell> essencially, yes
<joshu> ok I think I understand. Thanks unsmell shevy ;)
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<shevy> yeah almost, I dont think lambda would fail here whereas in:
<shevy> def some_method(i) # <-- the input would be mandatory
<shevy> def some_method(i = 'whatever') # <-- now the input is optional
<MrZYX> for lambdas parameters a mandatory, for procs they aren't
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<MrZYX> *are
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<joshu> I have the following working code: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9215e97f46857abb6592 where I essentially create an array of users depending on the day and time.
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<joshu> It works, but what I would like to do is instead of defining the "global" weekday and times and construct the array of users, I want to define these attributes per user. So look at each user when they are available and then build the array? Any tips?
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<Beoran__> joshu, why not make a User class with instance variables to store al that data i? Or even just a Struct.
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<joshu> Beoran__ ok I can do that. Just not sure if specifying a range as I've done in my gist above for each user is the right way…hmmm ok I'm going to have to experiment.
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<Beoran__> joshu, well you could use hashes, arrays, Sets, etc as well, I guess, it really depends on the comon use case
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<platzhirsch> howdy
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<shevy> die
<shevy> sorry, wrong idiom... I meant hi
* platzhirsch gasps
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<platzhirsch> ^^
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Companion is now known as companion
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<rovar> hello all, I have a question about ERB. Is this a good place to ask?
<rovar> or is there somewhere better..
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<shevy> there is no #erb channel
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<platzhirsch> rovar: go ahead :)
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<shevy> best thing is to try and ask, or perhaps ask on #rubyonrails, more people should use erb there
<rovar> I am rendering a partial inside another template
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<rovar> and in doing so, I'm also creating a hash table of data which references a field in another hash table
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<rovar> e.g. for the partial.. I have data like : src_ip => node[:cluster][:management][:ip]
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<rovar> but I don't want it to resolve right away, because node is not defined yet
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<rovar> so if I do src_ip => "node[:cluster][:management][:ip]"
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<rovar> and then in my partial I can "#{eval(src_ip)}" or something?
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<rovar> I'm not sure which is the best way to go
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<rovar> maniacal's client is spazzing all over the place
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<platzhirsch> rovar: not sure, but why don't you resolve the hash inside the partial? To keep it general?
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<rovar> platzhirsch, what do you mean by resolve?
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<rovar> my problem is that I don't know which value to resolve inside the partial, so I need to resolve the value that points to the value that I need to resolve..
<platzhirsch> by resolve I mean accessing the inner values through []
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<platzhirsch> rovar: what I do sometimes in these situations is to use a function inside the partial which does perform that step
<_br_> rovar: You should try to keep your view templates (e.g. erb) as logic-less as possible. Also, view tables should only handle local variables passed into them and effectively display them. Everything else should as much as possbile be handled in the controller that effectively calls the view with variables.
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<rovar> so I can't just put #{node:[:cluster][:management][:ip]} in my partial, because it is general
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<rovar> I don't know if that's actually the value I need to resolve.
<rovar> A function would work
<rovar> but that gets kind of heavyweight..
<rovar> I'm not sure if I get lambda notation in my operating environmetn..
<rovar> environment
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<platzhirsch> rovar: yes, but _br_ is right. The question to my mind is, why is node not set yet when you render the partial
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<rovar> node is set when I render the partial
<rovar> node is not set when I'm defining the hash table which says which IP I want to use
<rovar> so I need late binding
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<rovar> I guess I'll just plan on using lambdas in my configs for now
<rovar> :)
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<_br_> I can't help but feel that what you construct there will be difficult to maintain.
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<_br_> rovar: Btw. you are inviting a world of pain and danger by using eval.
<rovar> I'm not going to use evals
<rovar> I'll use lambdas
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<rovar> the thing is I don't see any other option for deferencing a pointer to a pointer in rubpy
<rovar> ruby
<shevy> pointer
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<shevy> what is that in ruby
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<_br_> Seems like you are trying to program C or C++ in Ruby without understanding how to properly use Ruby.
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<platzhirsch> rovar: Ruby doesn't have pointers
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<rovar> platzhirsch, I know, that's why I have to use lambdas
<rovar> everything else in ruby is early-binding
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<shevy> lambda pointers!
<platzhirsch> rovar: you could do obj.send(:method_name) if you want to decide later which method to execute on which object
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<shevy> a lambda sender
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<rovar> hrm..
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<rovar> so what would send look like if I want to tell my template to reference node[:cluster][:management][:ip]
<rovar> is that 3 sends?
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<shevy> ack
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<shevy> well you send a method call
<rovar> can someone please kickban maniacal temporarily?
<shevy> node in your example looks like a hash
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<rovar> it's actually a hash that contains a hash that contains a hash that contains a hash, correct?
<shevy> I doubt it
<shevy> well
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<shevy> a hash can include hashes and arrays and objects, so yeah
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<rovar> everything's an object.. so :)
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<shevy> class Foo; def initialize; @node = {}; end; def node(i); @node[:foo] = i.to_s; end; end; Foo.new.send :node, 5 # => "5"
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<spike|spiegel> rovar: everything isn't an object, just behaves like one
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<platzhirsch> You could also provide an array with keys that map to the path of the inner hash and then execute arguments.inject(node) { |result, arg| result = result[arg] }
<shevy> rovar some objects are not quite 100% real objects in ruby
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<shevy> x = 5; def x.hi; puts "hi"; end
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<shevy> TypeError: can't define singleton method "hi" for Fixnum
<shevy> x = 5.5; def x.hi; puts "hi"; end
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<shevy> TypeError: cant define singleton method "hi" for Float
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<shevy> :(
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<platzhirsch> locked up
<shevy> oh man... I have to learn python for a course ... I already hate it...
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<spike|spiegel> you shouldn't need them, singletons are scary.
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<spike|spiegel> on regular objects too
<rovar> python is a great language
<rovar> it's just different than ruby
<platzhirsch> and I need to drift back to statically typed languages soon or else I am starting to become a bad person
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<rovar> platzhirsch, give Rust a try :)
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<platzhirsch> I was more thinking about Scalar
<rovar> Scala?
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<platzhirsch> Scala
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<shevy> ah well
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<shevy> I'll get over it and do something useful... like try to use django while they want of the class to write basic python scripts instead...
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<platzhirsch> shevy: what class is it?
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<shevy> I'll get over it and do something useful... like try to use django while they want of the class to write basic python scripts instead...
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<shevy> my silent hope is that I'll have a set of ruby scripts able to solve all requirements :P
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<shevy> I wish I could get rubygnome to work again
<shevy> is there a simpler GUI toolkit available for ruby that works easily?
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<unsmell> uhh
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<unsmell> i'm pretty sure maniacal has been join-spamming us for about half an hour now
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<_br_> shevy: Green shoes?
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<fuzzy> Is there anyone around that's familiar with celluloid? https://gist.github.com/FuzzySunshine/6261919 my question is do I have 5 bots running or 10? My array tells me 5 and when I terminate i'm seeing 11
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<platzhirsch> If I want to define an alias_method for a class method, wouldn't I do that like so: class << Metric; alias_method :name, :to_sym; end?
<platzhirsch> Because I get a stack level too deep exception
<pothibo> how does ruby check for hash equality? it doesn't seem to go through hash or eql?
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<apeiros> platzhirsch: that's how you'd do it
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<apeiros> pothibo: if #hash is equal, it tests #eql? after
<platzhirsch> apeiros: ah I get Stack level too deep because I use self.name inside the to_sym method
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<spike|spiegel> pothibo: you mean {} == {}? or buckets/collision?
<pothibo> apeiros: I,m talking about hash == hash
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<pothibo> spike|spiegel: {} == {} :)
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<spike|spiegel> > {:a => ''} == {:a => []}
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<unsmell> didn't we have an eval bot in this room
<spike|spiegel> >> true
<eval-in> spike|spiegel => true (https://eval.in/43685)
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<spike|spiegel> tyo
<unsmell> oo
<pothibo> spike|spiegel: I mean, what it looks for when doing the equality, doesn't seem to use the hash value
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<unsmell> >> [].class; {}.class
<eval-in> unsmell => Hash (https://eval.in/43686)
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<unsmell> that didn't come out as expected
<unsmell> >> {}.class
<eval-in> unsmell => Hash (https://eval.in/43687)
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<spike|spiegel> pothibo: it's a bit complicated, keys and values are checked, custom Objects by reference equality and some builtins by value equality
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<pothibo> spike|spiegel: ok, I'm trying to have my custom object keys match a string key
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<pothibo> I guess I'm asking for trouble
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<spike|spiegel> #hash and #eql? are for hash contract
<spike|spiegel> there's also, #equal ;)
<spike|spiegel> == and === :)
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<pothibo> well I'll just stick to another solution ;)
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<shevy> wow I was lucky, rubygnome works again
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<Mon_Ouie> Hash#== is roughly (it works for recursive hashes too, and uses to_hash at the beginning): def ==(h); all? { |k, v| h[k] == v }
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<apeiros> you forgot .length == other.length
<apeiros> otherwise if self is a subset of other…
<Mon_Ouie> Oh, yes
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<unsmell> hey, uhm, I decided to revert the changes I had in my project back to the working state so I could work out that YAML bug from the start
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<unsmell> and apparently it will still give me mapping errors (?)
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<unsmell> I know this works like a charm using syck, but I'm still curious as to what this error means
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<MrZYX> I'm still tipping on wild unexpected characters because if I copy paste your example into a pry session it passes YAML.load just fine
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<MrZYX> that is unexpected characters caused by encoding hell
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<pontiki> what is at that position in your file?
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<pontiki> MrZYX: it's an encoding issue, then?
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<MrZYX> It's my bet, I've no prove
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<pontiki> nod
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<MrZYX> I mean that this is windows is another indicator for that :P
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<pontiki> sure
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<unsmell> windows is dev hell
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<momomomomo> MrZYX: I missed your issue - but you might try installing a linux VM
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<MrZYX> momomomomo: maybe it's better to not answer to an answer in a conversation if you didn't read the conversation ;)
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<momomomomo> MrZYX: I didn't answer your question, just suggesting an option for windows users
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<MrZYX> I'm not even a Windows users, which would be very clear if you would have payed attention to the context
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<MrZYX> *user
<unsmell> yeah i am
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<momomomomo> MrZYX: drop your attitude, I just connected in the last ~5 min - and saw this "MrZYX: I mean that this is windows is another indicator for that "
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<MrZYX> My attitude is to not answer to a single statement without any context
<MrZYX> I should drop that?
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<apeiros> I suggest you drop your hat
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<havenwood> i suggest brunch!
<momomomomo> Context for me (at the time of connection) was that you're complaining about Windows
<apeiros> but I had brunch!
<unsmell> i agree w/ apeiros
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<unsmell> Hat Simulator 2013 for everyone
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<havenwood> mmm, mimosas
<apeiros> those are beautiful flowers
<shevy> lol
<shevy> mmm, lemmings
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<havenwood> that was a fun game
<unsmell> also has anyone but me noticed maniacal has been join-leaving this channel for about 1 hour now?
<shevy> :D
<momomomomo> unsmell: Connection issues maybe
<shevy> unsmell, no idea, I never see who leaves or joins, for me IRC is like a permanent, perpetual pub where noone is watching the entrance/exit door
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<unsmell> ugh
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<havenwood> i think if i watched leave/join i'd be annoyed with my self
<unsmell> screaaaming
<unsmell> ugh
<shevy> I am happy, as of today my old ruby-gtk apps can work again (but they were written in 1.8.x days, so I must do lots of changes to have them work on 1.9.x)
<zendeavor> good thing i hide those
<unsmell> unninstalling thunderbird
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<shevy> unsmell what client do you use?
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<unsmell> read: last message
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<unsmell> do you recommend any irc clients?
<havenwood> I use LimeChat, happens to be written in Ruby.
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<unsmell> does it have support for custom fonts?
<havenwood> Okay, not really Ruby now, I swear it used to be written in a pre-cursor to RubyMotion or something along those lines: https://github.com/psychs/limechat#readme
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<unsmell> or atleast changing it
<havenwood> Its OS X though, dunno your platform?
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<unsmell> M$
<unsmell> win8
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<unsmell> multiplatform irc clients, anyone?
<apeiros> havenwood: it used to be written in ruby
<havenwood> Looks like XChat or mIRC.
<apeiros> but he switched to objC
<havenwood> apeiros: Whew, not losing my mind.. :)
<unsmell> mIRC has always been really annoying for me
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<momomomomo> depending on what servers you have at your disposal, you could run a web based IRC client
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<pontiki> irssi
<havenwood> unsmell: Might just want to virtualize Fedora or Mint or something, at least vagrant for a nice command line.
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<havenwood> <3 vagrant: http://www.vagrantup.com/
<unsmell> what are the rest of you using for irc?
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<pontiki> irssi
<pontiki> on a remote server
<momomomomo> colloquy (mac)
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<pontiki> with tmux
<pontiki> so ssh+tmux+irssi
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<momomomomo> happy with irssi pontiki ?
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<pontiki> fabulously
<momomomomo> overhead?
* pontiki looks up
<momomomomo> suppose it doesn't matter, I have a bunch of boxes just sitting haha
<pontiki> no, just ceiling
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<pontiki> are asking how much of a load it places on my server?
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<momomomomo> yeah, but no worries I'll just look up on the docs later
<pontiki> it never registers on top
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<unsmell> okay i think i have had enough of thunderbird now http://puu.sh/44OSD.png
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<shevy> dumdedum
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<chihhsin> irssi ftw!
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<shevy> xchat 4ever!
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<ayonix> quassel rocks!
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<_br_> let the flamewar begin -.-
<shevy> eh _br_ you must announce which IRC client is your only true love
<_br_> lol irssi of course ^^
<apeiros> _br_: my flamewar is bigger than your puny flamewar!
<_br_> hehe
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<shevy> hmm now if ruby had only an IRC client
<apeiros> shevy: go write one
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<Morrolan> shevy: I take it you'll try to get it into Ruby's stdlib? :)
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<shevy> Morrolan too much effort to get anything into stdlib honestly
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<shevy> apeiros it's on my todo list, my current one can connect to a channel and I can use it ... but it's more a minimal one, it misses a gazillion of features
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<epitron> heftig: rbx is worse than MRI for garbage beacuse rbx is implemented in ruby. try counthing the things in ObjectSpace on both platforms
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<epitron> *counting
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<Morrolan> shevy: Hah, I can imagine that getting something like an IRC client in there might prove difficult indeed. :P
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<shevy> yeah
<shevy> it's ok now with gems, one can just release it as gem and that's it
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<Morrolan> Yea. It's a very nice packaging system indeed. :)
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<sml0820> i have a basic ruby question. I have hash called row, a1 => 2. I want to print "2"
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<sml0820> so like row.2nditem - what would it be?
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<waxjar> row[a1] ?
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<sml0820> okay but there is alot of different ones like c3, b6 etc
<epitron> Morrolan: putting an irc client in the STDLIB will hinder its evolution
<starfox21> So I was just in irb and I wanted to get some quick info about rand. What is the fastest way to get the rand documentation from irb?
<sml0820> @waxjar so i pass the whole hash in a block. @cards.each_with_index |row, i| row.2nditem
<epitron> Morrolan: it would be nice to put an evented network framework in the stdlib though..
<epitron> something that makes it easier to write irc clients
<epitron> that would be simple enough that you wouldn't have to change it much after it gets added
<waxjar> shevy, is your irc client online somewhere?
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<waxjar> sml0820, i don't understand what you want to do, tbh
<epitron> starfox21: use pry :)
<epitron> starfox21: you just type "? rand" for documentation... or "ri rand" if you don't like pry's documentation system
<starfox21> epitron: thanks. Gonna give pry a shot
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<epitron> "gem install pry-plus" to get all the goodies
<Banistergalaxy> Starfox21 there is a little bit of epitron in there too
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<starfox21> Banistergalaxy: i see, well I have been using pry in rails for debugging I just did not know that people also used it as a replacement for irb
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<havenwood> +1 alias irb="pry"
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<starfox21> epitron: this is great! the documentation is very readable. Can't wait to see what else comes with pry
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<havenwood> starfox21: The `help` command is super helpful. :P
<starfox21> havenwood: thanks, this looks very promising
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<epitron> starfox21: there's a talk from railsconf if you like that kind of thing
<epitron> or you can type "help"
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<starfox21> epitron: I am watching railsconf talk by conrad irwin
<epitron> good choice
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<shevy> waxjar well yeah but it is awful and buggy :(
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<shevy> waxjar here is the current code http://pastie.org/pastes/8247989/text I stopped after having been unable to figure out how to use openssl + ruby in IRC
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<epitron> ooo, nice comments :)
<Morrolan> epitron: I am aware, my first 'suggestion' of him trying to get it into the stdlib was a (failed) attempt at a joke. :P
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<epitron> asciidoc
<epitron> Morrolan: oic
<waxjar> cool, i'll have a look. i've been working on a simple irc library for a while now.
<shevy> I need to figure out OpenSSL::SSL::SSLContext.new
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<shevy> waxjar, do you have openssl support working?
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<shevy> I know that there are irc libs that have it
<waxjar> yes, but not the verifying of certificates :(
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<epitron> haha
<epitron> the certificate system is totally fubar anyways
<epitron> just accept everything
<shevy> hehe
<epitron> you'll get basically the same level of security
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<waxjar> yea, that's what i figured. maybe some day i'll try to figure it out
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<MrZYX> just implement DANE right away and accept nothing else :P
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<epitron> what's DANE
<epitron> ?
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<shevy> sounds like someone from denmark
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<BrianJ> Question about how to pass a paramters hash around: http://pastie.org/8248011
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<epitron> MrZYX: so this depends on your DNSSEC response being valid...
<MrZYX> yup
<epitron> can you spoof that? :)
<epitron> does DNSSEC have MITM attacks?
<MrZYX> nothing serious yet afaik
<MrZYX> the point of dnssec is to make dns MITM secure, basically
<spike|spiegel> DNSSEC on the other hand is a quite useful DOS tool.
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<epitron> haha
<epitron> you mean, those attacks where you spoof the sender?
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<epitron> and then DNSSEC responds to another server on some specific port
<spike|spiegel> DNS amplification, yes
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<epitron> alas
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<Swizzy> in rails 4, is it possible to pass a hidden field in the link_to function?
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<SmoothPorcupine> "Bad file descriptor - /usr/lib/ruby/1.9.1/socket.rb (Errno::EBADF)"
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<SmoothPorcupine> Explain it like I'm competent.
<momomomomo> SmoothPorcupine: Paste your entire trace to http://gist.github.com/
<SmoothPorcupine> I wish.
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<momomomomo> ?
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<SmoothPorcupine> No, that's coming /usr/lib/ruby/1.9.1/rubygems/custom_require.rb:36.
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<SmoothPorcupine> /Directly./
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<shevy> cool
<epitron> SmoothPorcupine: you're trying to require something over a socket?
<epitron> did you do "require 'open-uri'; require 'http://...'"? :)
<SmoothPorcupine> That line reads: gem_original_require path
<shevy> at least you have a cool error
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<SmoothPorcupine> epitron my friend, no.
<epitron> haha
<momomomomo> SmoothPorcupine: Can't help you without code. Paste up your gemfile and trace
<epitron> that is a pretty cool error
<epitron> you don't see EBADF very often
<SmoothPorcupine> require "socket" #=> Bad file descriptor - /usr/lib/ruby/1.9.1/socket.rb (Errno::EBADF)
<shevy> in python this is errno.EBADF Bad file number
<shevy> are you on some debian ruby?
<momomomomo> SmoothPorcupine: is that in your gemfile? "require" ?
<SmoothPorcupine> shevy my friend, doubtful.
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<SmoothPorcupine> I'm kind of assuming this is Ruby monopolizing FDs 3 and 4 and making a bad assumption in the core #require.
<shevy> and noone can reproduce this magic behaviour
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<SmoothPorcupine> If I knew the exact semantics I wouldn't have bothered coming here for any purpose or person.
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<SmoothPorcupine> I've got a script that opens/maintains a socket connection.
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<Swizzy> in rails 4, is it possible to pass a hidden field in the link_to function?
<momomomomo> SmoothPorcupine: You still haven't pasted the trace and your code. http://gist.github.com
<MrZYX> Swizzy: #rubyonrails
<Swizzy> MrZYX: thanks
<SmoothPorcupine> momomomomo my friend, if you can't understand that Ruby's internal #require function is causing the error, code won't help.
<SmoothPorcupine> The code is `require "socket"`
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<shevy> so in other words you still have nothing to show to others for your mystery problems
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<SmoothPorcupine> There's nothing to show.
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<shevy> a classical heisenbug
<SmoothPorcupine> Imagine I got it down to: `ruby -rsocket` and raised that error.
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<shevy> unlikely. that command alone just stalls.
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<SmoothPorcupine> It's waiting for the script from /def/fd/0.
<shevy> lol
<shevy> mystery /def
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<SmoothPorcupine> /dev*
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<SmoothPorcupine> Anyone know offhand where the require function is defined in the source?
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<_br_> Are you executing your code from inside a vm? (e.g. vserver, lxc, etc.) ?
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<SmoothPorcupine> No.
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<_br_> So you're telling me that ruby -r socket "" basically segfaults?
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<SmoothPorcupine> No, EBADF.
<_br_> Try a different ruby version, e.g. 1.9.2 or 2.0
<_br_> if the problem persists we are a step closer to a solution
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<shevy> SmoothPorcupine, http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-2.0/Kernel.html#method-i-require respectively for your version, click on toggle source to view the C source delegates towards return rb_require_safe(fname, rb_safe_level());
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<SmoothPorcupine> Oh right I forgot about that aspect of the docs.
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<pontiki> This came up on ruby-talk, wondering if anyone has any insights about Date.parse, strftime and strptime and NA-ordered dates (MM/DD/YYYY) : https://gist.github.com/tamouse/6263292
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<pontiki> i don't have different versions of ruby to check this out on (and behind a way-slow connection)
<pontiki> anyone else run into something like this?
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<shevy> on ruby "1.9.3" it also fails
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<pontiki> interesting
<pontiki> the OP was working on upgrading a Rails app from 2-ish to 4-ish, so I'm assuming they were also back in the 1.8.7 time frame when it worked.
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> let's see if I can test on 1.8.x
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<shevy> sorry
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<shevy> cant even compile it anymore it seems :(
<shevy> In file included from dl.c:104:0:
<shevy> callback.func:78:33: error: expected ')' before '(' token
<shevy> callback.func:79:3: warning: data definition has no type or storage class [enabled by default]
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<pontiki> seems to work in 1.8.7: https://eval.in/43702
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<platzhirsch> You know, if you have implemented a progress bar that can grow backwards that you have done a shitty job
<_br_> pontiki: Since you are already supplying a format using #parse makes no sense. Parse will use heuristics to find out what type of format you provided. Why not use #strptime instead then?
<popl> platzhirsch: or defied physics
<_br_> platzhirsch: Nice, it goes back in time to delete itself maybe ^^
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<popl> I thought Microsoft already had those…
<popl> :)
<platzhirsch> No, I think that was only for the estimated time of completion
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<unsmell> hey guys
<unsmell> does anyone here know what YAML is trying to tell me here http://puu.sh/450M2.jpg
<unsmell> WAIT NO
<popl> heh
<popl> unsmell: troll harder
<xybre> lol
<unsmell> i swear
<SmoothPorcupine> unsmell my friend, no and no.
<shevy> lol unsmell
<shevy> Banana Joe
<unsmell> this is it.
<shevy> I dont know what are mapping values, psych means a hash?
<unsmell> this is what everyone in this channel will rememebr me for now
<shevy> perhaps you have a wrongful indent
<xybre> unsmell: Its telling you that theres a syntax error in your yaml and that you should Gist the file.
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<popl> unsmell: you should really pastebin stuff rather than take a screenshot
<unsmell> >gist
<shevy> no
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<shevy> Banana Joe makes screenshots
<xybre> lol
<sam113101> it tells you the screenshot is blurry
<popl> unsmell: the gist URL is in the topic
<shevy> wat... it's blurry?
* shevy looks again
<unsmell> I screened it right before it closed
<popl> this is the reason we can't have nice things.
<shevy> hmm true... the lower area seems a bit blurred
<SmoothPorcupine> Lol.
<popl> why did it close?
<popl> what is "it"?
<popl> :)
<shevy> do you run ruby in window mode?
<unsmell> because it found an error and I had nothing on rescue?
<SmoothPorcupine> unsmell my friend, Start > Run > cmd
<SmoothPorcupine> Run your programs from there.
<unsmell> ugh
<shevy> then the window will remain opened ... or just log all output into files anyway
<unsmell> i'm not gonan argue how i do this right now okay
<popl> nobody is arguing
<shevy> ok the indent looks wrong
<unsmell> gonan
<xybre> Screenshot, print it out, scan it, post on imgur, take picture with phone, picture message it to oneself, copy it from phone onto desktop, embed in word doc, upload to google docs, download as PDF, convert PDF to png, then upload to puu.sh.
<popl> unsmell: are you on your phone?
<unsmell> eww word
<unsmell> yes popl.
<unsmell> i am running windows cmd on my phone
<unsmell> + ruby
<popl> are you being sarcastic?
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<unsmell> yes
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<shevy> I am not sure what is wrong with that yaml file
<shevy> they only thing I would do differently is move the - values one space to the left
<shevy> but strangely enough, both syck and psych seem to have zero problem with either of that... so I am at a loss
<unsmell> odd
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<unsmell> I'm running 1.9.3 also
<xybre> unsmell: that yaml works here, maybe its a newline problem, since you're on windows
<unsmell> ooh
<unsmell> I figured it out
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<unsmell> I had it on UTF-16 ?
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<shevy> what was it
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<xybre> O_o
<shevy> UTF-16 is valid for yaml
<unsmell> switched back to UTF-8 lol
<unsmell> it is?
<shevy> yes
<popl> it's probably documented somewhere
<unsmell> then why is it working with UTF-8 and not UTF-16
<xybre> Yeah but I think the file wasnt properly encoded for utf16
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<shevy> "YAML streams are encoded using the set of printable Unicode characters, either in UTF-8 or UTF-16."
<shevy> dunno unsmell
<SmoothPorcupine> unsmell my friend, because "I had it on UTF-16" is the least sane thing said in the past half hour in this channel by a wide margin.
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<unsmell> i know lol
<shevy> but I know that these two encodings are valid because I was told that once when I used some ISO-* encoding, and was told I may not use that for yaml, but syck had no problem with it... whereas psych has :(
<popl> even counting the banana stuff
<shevy> hey
<unsmell> I was playing around with encodings yesterday, must've left that on UTF-16
<shevy> Banana Joe uses ruby
<unsmell> banana joe is the worst thing i have ever done to this channel
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<popl> unsmell: you're still young
<MrZYX> didn't I say encoding like 12 hours ago?
<popl> unsmell: don't count yourself out yet
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<shevy> lol
<popl> MrZYX: Is this an old problem?
<shevy> unsmell we want more pics
<unsmell> lol thanks guys
<MrZYX> popl: pretty much
<unsmell> shevy: n o
<popl> MrZYX: story of IRC
<popl> :)
<shevy> I dont remember what happened more than one hour ago here
<unsmell> i dont remember what i had for lunch
<shevy> hmm...
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<shevy> I ate some funghi thing...
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<shevy> "yellow boletus"
<unsmell> cool
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<unsmell> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=!gi+yellow+boletos
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<shevy> "boletus"
<unsmell> what the heck does boletos mean though
<shevy> though it is more brown and less yellow...
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<shevy> I think it just comes from latin
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<platzhirsch> if I use multiple and states in on the left side of an assignment operator, like: success = (cond1 and cond2 and cond3), why do I have to set parentheses? does the assignment operator (=) bind strong than and?
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<fryguy> platzhirsch: TIAS
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<platzhirsch> nvm, seems to be the case
<apeiros> platzhirsch: use || instead of and
<apeiros> err, &&
<shevy> what is TIAS?
<platzhirsch> fryguy: yeah *headdesk*
<platzhirsch> try it and see
<MrZYX> guess why everybody uses && and ||
<shevy> yeah
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<shevy> though and reads nicer
<unsmell> ewww verbose conditionals
<shevy> if/else/elsif
<unsmell> damnit
<platzhirsch> Vim highlights and so niecly, && is ugly white
<unsmell> ugly white
<shevy> I stepped beyond the phase of vim
<apeiros> platzhirsch: modify the highlighting?
<platzhirsch> apeiros: not a real problem
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<unsmell> i'm in my scene phase of programming
<shevy> scene phase?
<platzhirsch> shevy: that sounds like I was standing on the brink and took the step beyond
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<Kelet> People use && || instead of and or because order of operations is different and && || present the more common order of operations IIRC
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<unsmell> I'm laughing so hard
<unsmell> it has its own wikia
<platzhirsch> and don't forget about & and | if you want execute questionable operations with side effects :P
<popl> How much does Ruby take from Perl?
<xybre> unsmell: "scene" is a type of music?
<popl> wrt the boolean operators
<shevy> I think perl does not have "and"
<popl> perl has and
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<shevy> hmm
<unsmell> Ruby takes from C#, lua, java, and more
<popl> shevy: I was curious because the precedence thing for those operators sound familiar
<shevy> damn...
<shevy> it's been almost a decade since I last used perl, I swear I forgot everything
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<platzhirsch> there's still hypnosis
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<popl> I try not to mention it here because everyone hates on Perl like they hate on fat girls or blonde girls
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<shevy> oh man now you want to compare perl with blonde girls ...
<unsmell> let's not go that way
<popl> shevy: I meant people joke about Perl like they joke about blondes.
<platzhirsch> You shouldn't hate any language, if you read every day rants about Ruby you want to vomit
<Nilium> We hating on Perl? Can I help?
<unsmell> coughcoughBATCHcoughcough
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<popl> I don't hate on most languages
<Nilium> I only hate on PHP < 5
<popl> it's not productive
<popl> Nilium: MY NIGGA
<unsmell> coughcoughCOBOLcoughcough
<Nilium> And since PHP5 is out, I don't have to bother hating on PHP.
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<shevy> platzhirsch well ruby is not perfect either
<popl> COBOL is awesome
<popl> you can make *bank* writing COBOL
<shevy> platzhirsch the hateness is just smaller with ruby
<shevy> except for encoding
<popl> not really shevy
<popl> :P
<platzhirsch> shevy: and it shouldn't be, but neither do I want to read rants about languages
<Nilium> Cobol gets a bad rep for being old, but the mainframes running it are usually the most robust things still running.
<popl> I have seen a lot of Ruby hate
<popl> mostly towards the community though
<shevy> I have not
<platzhirsch> especially due to the arranged marriage with Rails
<unsmell> me either
<Nilium> It's just the crap people stack on top of the old Cobol systems that makes it look bad
<shevy> I see it only through people who say rails community == ruby community
<popl> Nilium: yep
<unsmell> most of what is see is "ruby? wtf is that"
<shevy> and I dont know the rails community at all
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<unsmell> shevy: same
<shevy> yeah unsmell :(
<platzhirsch> there is still the blame of 'monkey patcher'
<sam113101> it's shit
<shevy> php is the king of scripting languages today
<popl> Yep. It's the same way people equate Perl now with Perl from last century.
<popl> It's a stigma that can't be gotten rid of.
<shevy> you promised us perl 6!!!
<sam113101> I used to go on #rubyonrails but I left the channel
<unsmell> i'm working on a videogame w/ ruby 1.9.3 + gosu
<Nilium> I still need to try the newest Perl.
<unsmell> and
<popl> perl 6 is a different language shevy
<sam113101> it's shit, don't go there
<platzhirsch> sam113101: why? I am there, it's pretty decent
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<shevy> lol sam113101
<unsmell> i was talking to some programmer friends on ruby and they said I should do it on C#/C++
<shevy> good unsmell
<shevy> Nilium is also working on games
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<popl> Nilium: which?
<shevy> shawn is working on his toolkit on #gamebox, also with gosu
<popl> Nilium: newest Perl 5 you mean?
<unsmell> oh i know shawn
<shevy> and jacius used to drive #rubygames but he left 3 years ago about :(
<sam113101> for how long have you been there?
<shevy> sorry, #rubygame
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<Nilium> popl: No, Perl 6.
<sam113101> I've been there for 8 months or so
<shevy> Nilium is still a new cat on the block
<platzhirsch> 3-4 months
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<Nilium> I'm not sure if there's any usable implementation of it yet, though, since I've not kept track of it
<shevy> Nilium you need a working installation of perl 5 in order to bootstrap the parrot vm!
<unsmell> i talked to shawn before, i think
<Nilium> unsmell: In all honesty, you probably _should_ use C++ for games.
<shevy> I can see the picture parrot sends to us... "If you want to see the shiny future of perl 6 ... you need to first have perl 5 working!!!"
<unsmell> i hoenstly agree, Nillium
<Nilium> Sane C++, anyway.
<Nilium> That said, I'm trying to do game stuff in Ruby just because I can.
<unsmell> thing is, these days the best way to code games is to not code at all
<shevy> awwww
<shevy> that's the reason why games in ruby will never work
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<unsmell> now that
<unsmell> that is just unhopeful
<shevy> RUBY IS TOO SLOW
<unsmell> BAHAHAHHA
<unsmell> you're comparing ruby to C# runtime?
<shevy> perhaps you can do some cardgames
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<Nilium> Rubinius is actually pretty good at the whole performance thing.
<shevy> and we bundle all ruby gems into a meta-gem ... "The Ruby Game Collection"
<Nilium> Plus there's also RubyMotion, so it's obviously possible to statically compile Ruby
<unsmell> a huge clusterfuck of hard-coded unuseful shit
<shevy> lol
<shevy> I like that... can I quote you on this unsmell ?
<unsmell> go ahead
<unsmell> just source me as @kernelwizard please
<shevy> "Banana Joe said there is a huge clusterfuck of hard-coded unuseful shit out there"
<Nilium> Sourced as colonelwizard, got it
<platzhirsch> Ruby has only one problem and that is the GIL
<shevy> wow
<shevy> we narrowed it down to just one now ...
<unsmell> GIL?
<platzhirsch> GIL is a facist
<unsmell> one problem?
<platzhirsch> Global Interpreter Lock
<unsmell> I'm so confused right now
<Nilium> Ruby has one problem, and it's Matz >_>
<unsmell> what does GIL do
<shevy> ruby would not be ruby without matz
<shevy> it would be like perl 6 ... total anarchy ...
<unsmell> matz has one problem, the ruby community
<shevy> matz can ignore the community
<Nilium> Well, Matz doesn't like threads, so he's currently kind of a problem
<shevy> though the rails lobby is powerful... they got the hash syntax in
<unsmell> threaded programming.. *shudder*
<Nilium> I don't mind the hash syntax too much. It improved arbitrary named arguments
<unsmell> btw shevy what are you gonna do with that quote?
<Nilium> The only downside is when you want to do something like `name: :sym` and it just looks weird as hell
<Nilium> Does not pass the smell test for me.
<platzhirsch> Nilium: without the space?
<Nilium> Without the space is an error
<Nilium> Well, an error unless name is a class
<Nilium> Or module
<platzhirsch> `name: :sym` you mean?
<platzhirsch> oh
<unsmell> i am the smelliest of smelly smells that smell smelly
<Nilium> It already has a space >_>
<platzhirsch> now I see the space
<platzhirsch> There some nice code smell names, like shotgun surgery, how cool is that?
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<Nilium> I've only heard of shotgun rhinoplasty.
<Nilium> I'm probably heavily guilty of shotgun surgery, going by the wiki
<Nilium> Although really it's more that I'm guilty of not committing often enough
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<chrisseaton> Hi everyone. I need some clarification about class variables. In this code http://pastebin.com/dj2bnGQy - what is the difference between lines 9 and 16 - they look the same, but have different semantics - anyone know why?
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<shevy> unsmell dunno... perhaps store it in my IRC collection
<unsmell> put it in bash.org
<platzhirsch> The only thing I miss with Ruby is interfaces as in design by contract, heavy refactoring and better code completion
<Nilium> chrisseaton: Could you clarify what about it's confusing you?
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<unsmell> @@variables are the same from class to class exactly.
<chrisseaton> Nilium: both methods have the same form - but in one, assigning a class variable puts it in the class of self, and in the other it puts it in self
<unsmell> @variables are different, depending on which instance of the class
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<Nilium> Pretty much. They're both accessing the same class variable. The only difference is really that x.foo is defined specifically on only one instance of Foo and self.foo is defined for Foo, which is an instance of Class.
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<Nilium> Actually, scratch that, I guess x.foo can't access it? O_o
<chrisseaton> Nilium: but how does Ruby know where to put the instance variable? In one version it goes in one place, in the other it goes somewhere else, and I can't figure out what the rule is.
<unsmell> uhm
<unsmell> you don't need to reference self
<Nilium> Where to put it?
<chrisseaton> Nilium: sorry, where to read it from. Both methods and lines look the same, but one line reads it the variable from self, and the other from the class of self. How does Ruby know which to do?
<Nilium> See class_variable_get/set vs. instance_variable_get/set
<Nilium> Also, in general, you probably don't want to use class variables. It seems to be mostly a no-no.
<chrisseaton> Nilium: yeah, this isn't for new code, I'm trying to understand existing code
<unsmell> class variables are usually used to save space
<unsmell> and avoid making multiple copies of one thing
<chrisseaton> Nilium: I'm not mad am I though - there is some subtlety here isn't there?
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<unsmell> especially if the variable isn't set by #initialise
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<Nilium> Less subtlety and more that Ruby is sort of doing syntactic magic all over the place.
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<shevy> magic is not bad
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<unsmell> ruby is an almost perfect mashup of the most critisized languages that somehow manages to work out just fine
<unsmell> magic is what's behind the curtain, the cloth, and the wizard
<shevy> this is what magic did to harry potter http://bash.org/?111338
<Nilium> Syntactic magic is fine. Lua has it out the wazoo and it's awesome for it.
<unsmell> and oh im realyl sorry shevy
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<unsmell> now you won't be productive for a while now that you're entranced in bash.org
<shevy> man
<chrisseaton> here's my question boiled down; if I do def x.y; @@z = 14; end is the class variable going to go into the object x, or the class of object x? because in that pastebin it happens both ways?
<shevy> only famous people manage to make it there unsmell ... you were close but still not quite there
<unsmell> class of object x
<shevy> class variables are always part of a class
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<shevy> it's like a global variable, but restricted to a particular class
<unsmell> if it were instance it would be in the object, not the class
<chrisseaton> unsmell: but in line 16, it reads it from the object self, not the class of self
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<unsmell> ewww
<shevy> what is line 16
<unsmell> the object self IS class self
<chrisseaton> shevy: http://pastebin.com/dj2bnGQy
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<chrisseaton> unsmell: but how does it know to read it from self, or self.class... line 9 reads it from self.class, and line 16 reads it from self
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<unsmell> i'm really not the person to ask
<Nilium> Without looking at the MRI source code -- which I should actually do -- my guess is that it does something like `if responds_to?(:class_variable_get) ; ... ; else self.class... end`
<Nilium> *respond_to
<unsmell> i got into ruby this easily and understand what i do with mere luck
<unsmell> i've been studying the language for about 10 months
<chrisseaton> Nilium: hmm... I'll take a look at that idea thanks
<shevy> unsmell that is the intuitive way of understanding
<shevy> the learning without having to learn
<unsmell> yes
<Nilium> Basically, I'd have to look at how it's actually implemented to say, but that would be a rudimentary way of doing it.
<unsmell> i love that
<Nilium> I like that I got to use the word "rudimentary"
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<Nilium> Do you know how hard it is to find a use for it?
<unsmell> i absolutely despise lesson-based learning
<popl> There are some rudimentary uses.
<shevy> it reminds me of rudi
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<shevy> rudi rudi gib Acht
<unsmell> wot
<popl> Nilium: Now find a use for floccinaucinihilipilification.
<Nilium> I learned Ruby because a friend of mine, who I unfortunately haven't heard from in years, showed it to me and said "hey you can learn GL by using GLUT in Ruby and it's awesome" and I was like "yeah this is awesome"
<shevy> hehehe
<shevy> Dein Schatten schleicht durch die Nacht
<Nilium> popl: That's easy, use it on any critic of Perl.
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<popl> Perl::Critic
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<popl> Damn you, computer!
<Nilium> That'd be a good name for a linter.
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<popl> Linter?
<Nilium> Or a simulation of The Critic TV show
<unsmell> linter
<unsmell> it's a thing
<unsmell> that goes over your code
<shevy> unsmell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir8Evm75hlI the refrain has "rudi"
<unsmell> and tells you it's wrong
<unsmell> always
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<Nilium> "It stinks!"
<Nilium> Just ends with that every time.
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<popl> oh, you mean Lint
<popl> :P
<Nilium> Well, linters got their name from lint.
<unsmell> wait
<unsmell> oh nvm
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<popl> I couldn't find the term in foldoc but maybe it's in urban dictionary
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<popl> totally unimportant :P
<popl> Perl::Critic is one.
<Nilium> I'm not sure if 'linter' is even an accepted term, since I just use it to refer to thingies like lint.
<popl> I'd probably say lint-like but I'm a wee bit obsessive.
<Nilium> Well, wikipedia likes lint-like, but that's obtuse to use
<Nilium> .. I don't think I can use obtuse like that.
<popl> I like the repeataing l sound.
<popl> *repeating
<sqd> to clone an integer, do I use #dup or #clone? i noticed that @var = @@var doesn't create a clone of @@var automatically
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<Nilium> I should go back to university and get a second degree in linguistics. That'd be fun.
<popl> Nilium: unwieldy?
<Nilium> sqd: Is the integer a fixnum or a bignum?
<popl> Nilium: I haven't even gotten my first degree and I still owe on student loans.
<Nilium> I'm alright on loans thanks to getting lots of grants by virtue of being poor and my family being poor
<Nilium> Well, poor in terms of income, anyway. Obviously we're not poor if we have computers and all that.
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<unsmell> programming on an old screen-less computer
<sqd> Nilium: a fixnum
<Nilium> So yeah, if you plan to game the American student financial aid system and can be considered a dependent, make sure your parents have a very bad income and you'll get grants.
<unsmell> I'm pretty sure you can use =
<Nilium> sqd: Fixnums don't need to be dup'd
<unsmell> yeah
<Nilium> At least for the first 63 bits.
<Nilium> Or 31 bits.
<unsmell> oh?
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<Nilium> Ruby uses the first bit of a fixnum to mark it as a fixnum, basically.
<unsmell> ooh
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<popl> Nilium: I got tons of grants.
<Nilium> So you get N-1 bits to play with. It's typically not an issue, and if you need more it'll automagically switch to bignum.
<sqd> Nilium: ah right thanks, i was looking at another bug in my code. thought it had to do with the pass by value/reference thing
<popl> Nilium: not enough to cover tuition at a four year though
<Nilium> Both fixnum and bignum are immutable as well, so you don't need to copy them anyway.
<popl> Nilium: I had to work up through junior college
<Nilium> That's what I did, popl.
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<popl> Nilium: CS?
<Nilium> Basically got a bunch of stuff out of the way at a community college -- which was awesome, community colleges are highly underrated -- and then transferred.
<Nilium> I was CS, switched to English though.
<Nilium> CS would've required more time and money than I had.
<popl> I did CS. :P
<Nilium> I had a poor-ish academic background in maths, so I would've basically had to add two years to do a CS degree.
<popl> I actually had to get a waiver from the financial aid office because the amount of units I had was excessive.
<popl> Nilium: I had to work from pre-algebra up
<Nilium> Same. Hence why I switched to English.
<popl> ah, I stuck with it
<popl> somewhat :P
<popl> but it helped me realize that math is pretty fucking awesome
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<Nilium> It is, though I still suck at it.
<Nilium> I basically learn what I need to as I need it.
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<popl> Nilium: I took a CS cryptography course and we got to learn a bunch of number theory in the class.
<popl> I liked it so I took an intro to number theory course the next quarter
<Nilium> I was homeschooled 'til I went to community college, so I'm at least alright at teaching myself stuff.
<popl> Nilium: I sucked hard at math when I started.
<Nilium> I'd have actually majored in linguistics, but I didn't realize it was awesome 'til half-way through my English degree
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<popl> yeah
<popl> hindsight, etc
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<popl> C'est la vie!
<Nilium> So if I ever get a second degree, it'll probably be either linguistics or maths or both.
<popl> Nilium: There are free courses online.
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<Nilium> Yeah, I've done some of the Khan stuff and I've got books for learning various topics. It's not really hard to do.
<popl> and if you're a computational linguist then you get the added bonus of mainstream CS drones hating on you just because Randall Munroe hates on computational linguists.
<Nilium> I don't like the math class environment though -- failing for trying is hard as hell on people.
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<popl> yeah, I had to get real Zen about it because I've failed *a lot*.
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<Nilium> Wasn't aware mr. xkcd hates computational linguists. Can't imagine why.
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<popl> No idea.
<popl> it's in a few comics
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<popl> also in one of his talk someone in the audience claims to be one and he curses
<popl> *talks
<Nilium> Maybe he got dumped by one?
<popl> haha maybe :)
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<popl> I know a computational linguist that I've talked to in #perl who was over in Papua, New Guinea taking notes on four new languages.
<popl> He lived over there and did Perl in a mud hut. :P
<popl> I think that's pretty slick.
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<shevy> man
<shevy> I feel safe only in a big town
<Nilium> Was his name John Fry by any chance? O_o
<Nilium> I suppose Perl is probably just popular in linguistics though -- it's not the first I've heard of a linguist using it
<popl> Nilium: No, David Kamholz.
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<unsmell> man
<unsmell> what the heck do computational linguists do
<Nilium> One of my instructors was a computational linguist and liked to talk about perl.
<popl> David Kamholz helped design the database interface for Perl
<popl> unsmell: mostly catalog languages, study them with computers
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<shevy> unsmell I think they study a language and its structure in itself
<unsmell> for what purpose?
<popl> Nilium: I know Perl is popular with biologists and computational linguists.
<Nilium> Would not have figured biologists
<Nilium> I'd have expected matlab or something for them.
<popl> It's a horrible subset of Perl :P
<Nilium> Huh
<popl> most of them have icky regexps
<unsmell> regexp is icky already
<unsmell> i can only imagine
<popl> (them == people coming into #perl with problems)
<Nilium> I'm mostly of the opinion that regular expressions should be limited to editing code where possible
<Nilium> Not that you can't use them in code, but that most of the time, it's overkill
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<popl> I don't like using regexp more than I have to or when something else would suffice.
<Nilium> Plus I personally enjoy writing lexers, so I'm just masochistic
<MrZYX> It's always funny to see if people do stuff like .split /,/
<Nilium> O_o
<SmoothPorcupine> I don't think any of you do any real post-processing.
<Nilium> I don't, nor have I claimed to.
<popl> SmoothPorcupine: What do you mean?
<unsmell> masochistic programming
<unsmell> next up on: I Didn't Know It Was Perl
<Nilium> Perl wormed its way into a lot of things.
<SmoothPorcupine> popl my friend, ruby -p
<Nilium> Mostly because it was the go-to scripting language for a long time.
<popl> ah
<Nilium> Still is for a lot of people, too.
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<popl> Perl gets a bad rap.
<SmoothPorcupine> Incidentally, if you've ever use -n or -p, you understand what BEGIN/END{} actually do.
<popl> BEGIN and END are from Perl
<SmoothPorcupine> It's funny to see blog posts at the top of Google searches advocating removal without mentioning -n or -p.
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<Nilium> I've never used either argument, so eh
<unsmell> same
<unsmell> what's the purpose of it?
<SmoothPorcupine> `man ruby`
<unsmell> BEGIN/END, that is
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<SmoothPorcupine> It's to run something only once.
<popl> BEGIN isn't in ruby
<unsmell> but begin is
<popl> or were you referring to the n and p switches?
<unsmell> begin/end, popl
<SmoothPorcupine> They're the same thing.
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<popl> -n and -p?
<SmoothPorcupine> -n/-p/BEGIN/END
<popl> you are confusing me. what are we talking about?
<popl> no it isn't
<unsmell> i'm unsure too
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<SmoothPorcupine> `man 1 ruby`
<unsmell> >> begin;"this?";end
<eval-in> unsmell => "this?" (https://eval.in/43718)
<popl> I'm looking at it right now.
<popl> It's just like the perl -n and -p switchese
<popl> *switches
<SmoothPorcupine> Yes.
<shevy> unsmell you can put code blocks into BEGIN {} and END {}
<popl> all it does is assume an input loop
<unsmell> wait
<popl> -n doesn't print out $_, -p does
<unsmell> >> END{ "whaaat"}
<eval-in> unsmell => nil (https://eval.in/43719)
<popl> nothing to do with BEGIN/END
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<SmoothPorcupine> Everything to do with BEGIN/END.
<unsmell> BEGIN{ "???"}
<Nilium> Okay, so I just realized that an Enumerator returned by Array#each will reflect changes to the array.
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<unsmell> >> BEGIN{ "???"}
<eval-in> unsmell => /tmp/execpad-be105f39d2c2/source-be105f39d2c2:2: BEGIN is permitted only at toplevel ... (https://eval.in/43720)
<shevy> unsmell you could put a whole script in it
<unsmell> i know
<unsmell> I've used it before
<SmoothPorcupine> Consider this: ruby -pe 'STDOUT.sync = true;$_[0,0] = "Hello: "'
<shevy> I stopped using it
<unsmell> probably wrongly, but I have
<skyjumper> which debugger is recommended for ruby 2.0?
<unsmell> valgrind
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<unsmell> *crowd laughing.mp3*
<Nilium> /sound deeznuts.wav
<popl> SmoothPorcupine: Ok.
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<unsmell> well damn i should be getting ahead on getting settigns implemented on y game but instead i'm here being sarcastic and making shitty jokes
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<skyjumper> seriously, are any debuggers known to work well?
<popl> SmoothPorcupine: Sorry, I don't understand the point you are trying to make.
<SmoothPorcupine> STDOUT.sync gets set every time a line is read.
<unsmell> well, if the debugger doesn't work well, it's really just a bigass circlejerk of bad code
<SmoothPorcupine> If you put it in BEGIN{}, it only happens when that script starts.
<skyjumper> well, there have been some broken debuggers...
<SmoothPorcupine> Debugging? Kernel#p
<Nilium> Oh god I was just working on some code and now the use of 'config' is screwing with my head
<popl> SmoothPorcupine: ok
<skyjumper> or i'll get right to the point: if i want to step through my own code, line by line, interactively, in ruby 2.0, what do i use?
* Nilium refactors all 'config's to 'configuration'
<popl> SmoothPorcupine: How does that show that -p is equivalent to -n and BEGIN and END?
<unsmell> ruby has it's debugger built directly onto the kernel?
<SmoothPorcupine> They're all part of the same feature.
<unsmell> is that normal
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<skyjumper> tried 'debugger' and 'byebug' and both are doing the same weird thing
<SmoothPorcupine> Without those looping mechanisms, all code would be lexical.
<SmoothPorcupine> There'd be no need for BEGIN/END because you could just put it at the beginning or end.
<skyjumper> the 'next' command steps into the function call
<skyjumper> instead of breaking on the next line
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<skyjumper> or am i missing something
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<popl> SmoothPorcupine: I still don't see it.
<skyjumper> yeah, step and next are doing the same thing
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<SmoothPorcupine> You can see how -p is just -n + `print`, yes?
<popl> yes
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<SmoothPorcupine> You can see how /any/ code in the script is going to be run for *every* line of input, yes?
<popl> yes
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<SmoothPorcupine> You can see the need for discrete initialization/exit code within that script, yes?
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<popl> What do you mean?
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<SmoothPorcupine> Okay how about a simple script that reads in a series of numbers and outputs the average?
<SmoothPorcupine> You'll want -n not -p because you're not planning to output 1:1 lines.
<popl> I think we might be confused about what point we're actually discussing.
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<popl> You are asserting that -n and -p are equivalent to both BEGIN and END somehow, right?
<SmoothPorcupine> Yes, they're the same feature.
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<popl> You mean in the sense that -p is like adding an END block saying puts $_ or something?
<SmoothPorcupine> That's not what END does.
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<popl> END executes after everything else.
<SmoothPorcupine> Yes, after /everything/ else.
<popl> right, so -p does puts $_ after every loop
<SmoothPorcupine> In other words, when the input is finished.
<popl> so how can they be equivalent?
<SmoothPorcupine> Any given feature is made of multiple lines of code, yes?
<popl> no, because program execution can continue well after input is finished.
<popl> (to the otherwords comment)
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<popl> unless you're suggesting each iteration of a -p loop is something like BEGIN { ... } ... END { puts $_ }
<SmoothPorcupine> No it just doesn't the middle ellipsis for each input line.
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<popl> is this documented anywhere?
<popl> it's not in the manpage
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<popl> Pragmatic Programmer's guide just gives a brief blurb about BEGIN and END blocks
<SmoothPorcupine> Not that i know of.
<popl> Is it in the source somewhere? I'd like to take a look at it.
<popl> I don't know where all the ruby resources are yet. I'm new.
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<SmoothPorcupine> `ruby -pe'BEGIN{b()};m();END{e()}'` == `ruby -ne'BEGIN{b()};m();print;END{e()}'`
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<popl> I'm sorry but your assertion doesn't prove anything. It is possible to create code that produces the same output but is different.
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<popl> I'll have to dig around to see.
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<SmoothPorcupine> == `ruby -e'b();while gets;m();print;end;e()'`
<popl> still doesn't prove anything
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<popl> SmoothPorcupine: At least you managed to waste about half an hour of your time. I hope the rest of the day provides enough distraction for you. :P
<popl> s/your/our/
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<SmoothPorcupine> I've coding in the other window.
<SmoothPorcupine> This is just an aside.
<popl> awesome
<popl> happy I could provide some amusement :P
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<shevy> popl did he steal your time ;P
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<popl> well it's annoying because I thought he was going to teach me something about Ruby, not just make some baseless assertions.
<popl> but whatever
<popl> It's IRC. I'm over it.
<shevy> he is an IRC thief
<SmoothPorcupine> I'm not sure what's not to get about BEGIN/END. :V
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<shevy> lol
<shevy> do you even use it?
<SmoothPorcupine> Yes.
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<shevy> no you don't
<SmoothPorcupine> I do.
<shevy> people who have used ruby for a longer while simply do not use either
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<unsmell> can i use && in bool ? true : false
<SmoothPorcupine> So... How long have I been using ruby, exactly?
<Xeago> unsmell: yes
<unsmell> yessssssssssssss
<unsmell> thanks
<Xeago> shevy: I use begin/end?
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<SmoothPorcupine> Case is important here.
<shevy> Xeago I can not believe you!
<shevy> SmoothPorcupine I don't think you have ever used ruby
<SmoothPorcupine> Then you've got nothing to say.
<shevy> SmoothPorcupine logic has always been your weakest point
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<unsmell> wait did you nignogs start fighting
<SmoothPorcupine> How long have you known me?
<unsmell> dont do that
<shevy> SmoothPorcupine since years man
<unsmell> this chat is for Very Serious stuff
<shevy> Xeago can you give an example why you needed BEGIN / END?
<Xeago> catching raises mid body
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<SmoothPorcupine> Case is important here.
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<SmoothPorcupine> shevy my friend, http://marketqube.com/tmp/in.http
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<shevy> SmoothPorcupine sorry I can not click on it
<SmoothPorcupine> Takes a bit to load for some reason.
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<popl> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 500 RTFM
<popl> heh
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<SmoothPorcupine> ...That's odd.
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<pontiki> susanbecky: i've never linked my blogs to technorati -- what's the procedure and what are you having problems with?
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<susanbecky> the procedure: receive a token from Technorati
<susanbecky> include the token in the blog feed
<susanbecky> tell technorati to skim for it
<susanbecky> problem is technorati is not finding the token despite my looking for it
<pontiki> can you show me the page it expects the token on?
<pontiki> is it supposed to be wrapped in a link tag, or comments, or??
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<unsmell> hey, i'm havign an issue here
<unsmell> HAVING*
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<unsmell> i'm making a class that checks a variable for a string
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<unsmell> and saves it as an instance variable
<unsmell> and can update on method call
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<unsmell> how do i do this whithout just passing the variable [data]
<pontiki> need code
<unsmell> because with #new(arg) it just passes arg's data
<unsmell> i have no code
<pontiki> then....
<unsmell> i have no idea how to do it
<unsmell> i need to point to the variable somehow??
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<pontiki> ok, start at the top
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<pontiki> "check variable for a string" -- what does that actually mean if you aren't looking at the contents of some variable for some string?
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<unsmell> yes, but i need to be able to update the string
<unsmell> ie. #update
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<unsmell> which would check the variable again
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<pontiki> but you don't want to actually have a variable to check?
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<unsmell> noo
<unsmell> let me explain again
<unsmell> I have class Foo
<unsmell> it takes in one argument, which is bar
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<pontiki> classes don't take argumenets
<unsmell> #initialize, #new
<unsmell> yadda yadda
<pontiki> ok
<pontiki> please use real names, not Foo and bar
<unsmell> this is incredibily hard to describe
<unsmell> I'm going to try to gist what I'm going for, okay?
<pontiki> good
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<unsmell> gist isn't working for me (?????????)
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<pontiki> ok, in initialize(variable) -- that variable only lasts for the scope of the initialize method
<pontiki> if you want to change the instance var @variable, you need a setter, or some other means of changing it
<pontiki> how will it be changed usually?
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<unsmell> wait, can't i save the variable name and use eval?
<pontiki> meaning more what sorts of things would happen to cause it to change?
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<pontiki> so: "variable" in initialize is the local variable name
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<unsmell> yeah
<pontiki> "@variable" is the instance variable name
<pontiki> this is why never use crap names like that
<pontiki> nouns should be descriptive
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<pontiki> i don't know where you think you need to eval anything
<pontiki> generally, if you think that's the answer, you are wrong
<unsmell> i've learned that the hard way
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<unsmell> eval sucks in ruby most of the time
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<unsmell> well, not that it sucks, it's just hard to know HOW to use it
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<pontiki> is this what you're after: https://gist.github.com/tamouse/7e563ad17f6845ac2f7d
<pontiki> i'm really guessing
<unsmell> sort of
<unsmell> i'll just try and work around this
<unsmell> thanks
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<yaymukund> hi, I'm an experienced rails dev. I have a (bright) friend who is dabbling in ruby and js. what's a quick way to setup a site in ruby that's about as easy as wordpress, but not, y'know, awful
<yaymukund> ?
<unsmell> idk
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<unsmell> #rubyonrails might be of help
<unsmell> they should know of alternatives
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<yaymukund> it doesn't have to be rails-based, but sure. I'll ask them
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<xybre> yaymukund: Rails is probably the easiest to get started with. Sinatra is pretty easy too though, and less complexity overall.
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<yaymukund> yeah, but wordpress is dead simple. I was thinking closer to github pages or something. even rails is a bit too low level for a total beginner, imo
<yaymukund> anyway, don't want to bicker. was not trying to troll :)
<yaymukund> thank you
<diegoviola> Ramaze is great as well
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<unsmell> find a good markdown-to-website gem and you should be fine
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<yaymukund> diegoviola: ramaze looks cool
<diegoviola> yeah it is
<xybre> yaymukund: Github pages uses Jekyll