<weeb1e>
shevy: No idea if you're still around, but why didn't you mention wxruby?
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<weeb1e>
Other than having a terrible API (which can be fixed by using a wrapper around it), wxruby seems to be the smallest GUI framework I have come across that supports windows GUI and tray UI
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<Beoran_>
Sorry to spam, but if any EU citizen in a Ruby job in Brussels, please message me. It's really a great opportunity , I think.
<Beoran_>
*in interested in* >_<
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<bnagy>
die in a fire
<Beoran_>
bnagy, sorrty to offend you :p
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<bnagy>
you knew you were being an asshole but you did it anyway
<bnagy>
which makes you asshole**2
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<Beoran_>
bnagy, I don't think a job ad is being an asshole
<bnagy>
what do you think would happen if dickhead recruiters started thinking it was OK to come into programming channels on IRC and spam?
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<Beoran_>
I just said I was sorry to offen YOU
<bnagy>
how well you think that would end
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<Beoran_>
with some people getting jobs ?
<Beoran_>
and I'm not a recruiter
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<Beoran_>
I'm looking for someone to replace myself
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<Beoran_>
but I guess it's not a good method to advertise anyway
<Beoran_>
on second thought
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<Beoran_>
so I'll leave it at that
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<platzhirsch>
I am constantly having trouble that in my float array some constants like NaN or Infinifty end up which make sort throw an exception
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<platzhirsch>
What I don't learn is what the value causing the problem is, and it's hard to debug, trying to see if it's NaN, Infinfity, or god what do I know.. any ideas?
<weeb1e>
xybre: I tried to get that thing working for so damn long, it seemed perfect for my use case, however outdated
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<Steve009>
ANyone know of a good service with a ruby API for User Account profiles? Something like a DB service but that has been set up as a service for managing user profiles with associated data?
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<volty>
weeb1e: yap, replace, what an ... - me, thx
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<weeb1e>
I don't care if the size is doubled by the GUI framework, but 10 - 20x increase in size just for a simple GUI and tray icon is a complete joke
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<weeb1e>
shevy: I thought about adding just a tray icon (and menu/balloons) with an embedded web interface for details and configuration
<weeb1e>
But back to needing an implementation for the tray stuff
<weeb1e>
No one seems top have gone near the windows tray since 1.9.1
<weeb1e>
Extremely depressing
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
xybre, "forked from lylejohnson/fxruby"
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<shevy>
that is a random desperate person who tries to not have it die down
<volty>
weeb1e: you can try interfacing with c code (or just another way, maybe batch - if there) if you need only tray icon
<weeb1e>
volty: Implementing that stuff manually with the windows API is way too much of a headache
<weeb1e>
It is really nasty
<bnagy>
jruby + swing! XD
<weeb1e>
jruby is not an option
<shevy>
I am gonna say what will happen
<shevy>
you will write to the mailing list, asking for advice how to shrink ruby-gtk to bare minimum tomorrow ;)
<shevy>
OR!
<shevy>
ruby-tk!!!
<weeb1e>
I am using ruby for this client-side application to replace a .Net application for cross platform support without requiring something bloated like .Net or Java to be installed
<RubyPanther>
but Gtk is the quickest way to get a cross-platform tray app. fxruby doesn't count because it has such a history of failing to actually compile anywhere
<shevy>
dudes with black hair black eye and no english skills!!!!!!!
<weeb1e>
bnagy: I don't mean that as an insult, only that the lack of english resources is probably why it was never worked on by anyone else
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<RubyPanther>
weeble, in my case I used Gtk and bundler and developed on linux, and when I needed to test on windows, bundler had no trouble and it didn't download a 90mb package either... it just compiled the source for a few hours
<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
"it just compiled the source for a few hours"
<shevy>
weeb1e that's a classic RubyPanther for you ;)
<RubyPanther>
I wouldn't worry about a 90MB package though, it is not like it is a web app
<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: Sure, but in my case, uses will not be compiling anything, or even installing ruby on their machines
<shevy>
weeb1e I think you have to accept the fact that at the least half the people here rather want to add salt to your wounds as opposed to want to help you right now ...:D
<RubyPanther>
yeah but if I had other windows machines to run it on, I would just make my own package
<shevy>
I have good news weeb1e ...
<weeb1e>
I really just need something with tray icon, tray menu and tray balloon support for ruby, then I can use an embedded web UI for everything else
<shevy>
those toolkits will get bigger and bigger!
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<weeb1e>
:(
<shevy>
GIANT tray icons are en vogue soon
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<shevy>
100MB per tray icon
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* weeb1e
goes back to crying
<shevy>
weeb1e, btw why did you not try another shoes?
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<weeb1e>
shevy: Huge.
<RubyPanther>
In the end it is the same as anything else, you can't just hand ruby code to somebody either as a COTS app. You will need an installer.
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<shevy>
weeb1e can you define what is "huge" again please? I am going to argue with those on #shoes
<RubyPanther>
weeb1e: the 99%+ of the time I'm running my apps on linux, I'm adding way less than 7MB to the system to run a gtk app, because I have Gtk installed anyways.
<shevy>
omg
<shevy>
weeb1e it seems you found someone using either of these!
<weeb1e>
shevy: As I said, that is with a CLI interface, it was win32console and term-ansicolor for windows
<shevy>
well ok... let's ignore CLI... what about GUI stuff and common lisp? how large would these be?
<volty>
weeb1e: if I go to implement it i'd go with c++ and a configuration file for sending only the menu number
<weeb1e>
ixti: Since you didn't read up, gtk and qt will increase my apps packaged size by 10 - 20 fold, which is just unacceptable
<shevy>
oh wait
<shevy>
misread...
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<ixti>
weeb1e: ah. yeah
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<shevy>
I think you can squeeze that down
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<shevy>
you really should start writing to mailing lists
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<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: Sure, I'm fully with you, I have written hundreds of ruby applications, mostly eventmachine based server platforms, including a few massive ones over the years. But this specific project needs to be packaged for windows
<RubyPanther>
"____ - fold" is not a very reasonable way to measure size. A small package can grow many times bigger and still be small.
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<RubyPanther>
Most people don't even _own_ floppy drives anymore
<ixti>
yeah. we rent them
<RubyPanther>
and CDs and DVDs cost the same amount per disk
<shevy>
lol
<ixti>
:D
<weeb1e>
How is 80MB for a barebone GUI interface reasonable for an application that is only 7MB including the full ruby installation and it's gems?
<weeb1e>
I cannot comprehend that logic
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<RubyPanther>
How many GUI apps do you have installed on one computer? Only a few hundred in most cases, right?
<shevy>
it is the RubyPanther logic, you'll love it eventually weeb1e
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<weeb1e>
I might as well package AutoItScript and spawn that from my ruby application, with would only add a few MB for a full GUI and tray interface
<ixti>
i believe that logic is that it's not apropriate to calculat UI toolkit as part of app
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<RubyPanther>
Is the disk space of the app in any way a useful metric, assuming it is under 1GB?
<weeb1e>
But that is even more retarded :(
<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
under 1GB, weeb1e now you can package A LOT MORE into those 1GB
<RubyPanther>
I would say it is retarded not to even ask if it is useful, and just worry about it for no reason
<lewellyn>
RubyPanther: considering how many people still buy 60GB SSD, yes.
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<ixti>
when i have no space left - i remove some old porn
<RubyPanther>
lewellyn: great point, and so we can start to approach some real world numbers
<lewellyn>
also, one assumes this is meant to be downloaded. much of the world is on metered internet connections.
<weeb1e>
I'm actually considering packaging a seperate AutoItScript application with this, building an IPC and spawning that
<lewellyn>
so 90 mb might reasonably turn people off a download.
<RubyPanther>
Something like Gtk, it really makes more sense instead of worrying about the hundreds of GUI apps you might install to worry just about the total number of different GUI toolkits those apps will want to install
<weeb1e>
That is the most sensible option I have come across so far, even though it would be a complete hack
<lewellyn>
heh. that's why i have 3 gtk installs on windows that i know of and probably more :P
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<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: I doubt a single user downloading this application will ever install another GTK application on their machine, unless it is packaged with the application and transparent to them
<RubyPanther>
if there are only 2 or 3 dozen popular GUI toolkits, and average 100MB, now we can see that even on a weird laptop with a 60GB SSD, the toolkits are not a major concern
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<riceandbeans>
I think GTK+ is dying
<shevy>
but 100MB for just one shitty app!!!!
<shevy>
sorry weeb1e, I just want to add more salt to the wound ;)
<riceandbeans>
I think because of the issues introduced in V3, QT4 will be taking over
<shevy>
man
<riceandbeans>
WxWidgets with ruby is a pain
<shevy>
qt is even larger
<weeb1e>
shevy: It's ok, I think everyone does at this point :(
<RubyPanther>
it is up to you to make the app good, if it is shitty I'm more worried about the user time installing and using it than the disk space
<shevy>
it is like MONSTER SIZE
<riceandbeans>
and Tk is very antique looking
<shevy>
only people stuck in the 1960s still use Tk
<lewellyn>
shevy: you don't have to include all of qt with your app. just the parts you use.
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<riceandbeans>
shevy: it is slightly larger yes, but the code is honestly cleaner and runs faster
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<shevy>
slighty larger...
<weeb1e>
The fact is, I know the functionality I require can be built into a binary with a few MBs, there is no sensible reason for it to require 200MB
<lewellyn>
it's possible to bundle a qt that's only like 10mb on windows, apparently.
<RubyPanther>
Tk may have a smaller binary but it takes a lot longer to code an app with it. That is true for both large and small apps.
<shevy>
qt-5.1.1.tar.xz: 176M
<lewellyn>
that's source. for everything.
<riceandbeans>
shevy: shevy core QT compared to core GTK+ isn't a gigantic difference in filesize
<riceandbeans>
I would stick with V4 for now too...
<lewellyn>
you won't even be compiling much of the source in that tarball.
<weeb1e>
lewellyn: Qt is not 10Mb... link or didn't happen
<RubyPanther>
Gtk gives you a native tray app pretty much anywhere, and it is easy to use
<BraddPitt>
>try to reach blog on Net::HTTP ``cheat sheet''
<weeb1e>
A Qt application of that size would need Qt installed seperately
<BraddPitt>
>page connection times out
<lewellyn>
weeb1e: the smallest i've gotten is 30mb myself.
<BraddPitt>
is this some sick joke?
<weeb1e>
lewellyn: How?
<weeb1e>
lewellyn: With ruby?
<shevy>
gtk+-3.10.0.tar.xz: 14M, glib: 6.4, pango: 1MB, atk: 0.6, the others like gdkpixbuf etc... barely more than 4 MB together
<lewellyn>
weeb1e: you don't include anything more than you're actually using, and you go out of your way to minimize the number of dlls you use.
<weeb1e>
shevy: You're missing the big one
<shevy>
which one
<lewellyn>
no. i have never used qt itself with ruby.
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<weeb1e>
cairo alone is 60MB uncompressed
<lewellyn>
my pet project sits on top of qt ;)
<weeb1e>
Meh
<riceandbeans>
ruby with QT4 reads cleaner than GTK and it runs better
<shevy>
ah I indeed forgot cairo
<weeb1e>
This is ridiculous
<shevy>
cairo-1.9.2.tar.xz: 6.8M
<riceandbeans>
you'll learn to love the sockets
<riceandbeans>
but anyway
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<shevy>
cairo-1.10.2.tar.xz: 20M
<volty>
you need qtbindings and qt, you can try to eliminate some libraries -- i haven't tried that
<weeb1e>
riceandbeans: Which is useless if it means a 7MB app turns into a 200MB app with Qt
<shevy>
cairo-1.12.16.tar.xz: 35M
<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
wonder what the fuck they are doing
<shevy>
packing p0rn into cairo or something
<riceandbeans>
weeb1e: it doesn't though
<weeb1e>
riceandbeans: Qt is massive.
<riceandbeans>
weeb1e: we're talking ruby, not a static binary
<weeb1e>
riceandbeans: the qtbindings gem which includes Qt and dependencies for windows is 83MB compressed
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<weeb1e>
My application with a CLI is 7MB, including ruby and all gems used
<RubyPanther>
@status = Gtk::StatusIcon.new # easy as pie! Ever do one of these native in windows?
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<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: I tested that earlier, works fine
<shevy>
he can do it
<shevy>
but it is the size that is the problem RubyPanther!!!
<weeb1e>
But gtk is too big
<riceandbeans>
weeb1e: no one is saying CLI is bigger than GTK/QT
<riceandbeans>
I'm simply saying, having USED both extensively, I prefer QT over GTK
<RubyPanther>
what is "too big" anchored to? Without a context, it is a false statement.
<volty>
never mind: try to abstract // what weeb1e wants is a system tray icon that is not necessarily bundled -- the system tray icon and his main ruby prog could be separate programs
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<shevy>
cant you somehow call this all natively on windows?
<riceandbeans>
I run Debian GNU/Linux with Openbox as a WM, I believe in minimalism, trust me
<weeb1e>
riceandbeans: My point is, the GUI functionality I require shouldn't use more than a few MBs to implement, definitely not 100, 200 or 300MB
<riceandbeans>
but I like QT better than GTK
<weeb1e>
Argh, I'm close to giving up and hacking shit
<riceandbeans>
I'm also very strongly PRO C over C++
<RubyPanther>
Too big for what, clicking install and having it download quickly on a modern low end computer?
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<riceandbeans>
weeb1e: whatever libraries you pull in are whatever libraries you pull in
<volty>
for that purpose it is enough to find a c++ code that creates a hidden windows and a system tray icon with a menu and at least a message (as an example) // change that code and make it configurable
<weeb1e>
shevy: Yes it can all be done natively, but no one has bothered to implement this stuff for ruby
<riceandbeans>
Windows users will likely not have any POSIX GUI libraries so if that's your target audience they'll have a tougher time anyway
<volty>
s/windows/window/
<riceandbeans>
Tk is smaller and more easily implemented on Windows but it looks like it's from 1990
<riceandbeans>
if you're cool with that, by all means
<weeb1e>
AutoItScript compiles to a binary which is a few MB at most and can support full GUI, tray and automation
<riceandbeans>
it's also a lot more limited than GTK+ and QT
<RubyPanther>
weeble, things like cross platform tray icons actually took a long time to come about, and because of the differences between systems, it is not realistic to think that a small package would have that functionality
<riceandbeans>
weeb1e: other than that, WxWidgets, WebUI of some sort, or make your own framework...
<volty>
do it with autoitscrpt then
<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: I really just want a windows solution, linux users can stick with my CLI
<RubyPanther>
but seriously, crunch some numbers; if you have 100 apps that each want one of these bigger packages, it isn't 100 different toolkits; it isn't really 80M except where there are few apps installed
<riceandbeans>
weeb1e: if windows is your target audience, ruby might not be the best solution for a gui that you want to be < 10MB all in all with dependencies
<weeb1e>
I'm considering wxruby, but it does not have tray balloon notification support
<RubyPanther>
so the worst case turns out to be not that bad, and the typical case is not that bad either
<riceandbeans>
wxruby has shoddy support at best and it's difficult to implement
<RubyPanther>
wxruby tends to fail
<riceandbeans>
good luck with that one
<weeb1e>
volty: I'm not going to reimplement this application in AutoIt, and I'd rather not spawn a seperate autoit application with an IPC just for a GUI and tray interface
<RubyPanther>
it fails smaller, I will give itthat
<riceandbeans>
RubyPanther: fail is fail
<weeb1e>
wxruby is tiny compared to anything else
<riceandbeans>
if you win big or you fail small, who do you choose?
<weeb1e>
and should do most of what I need
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<riceandbeans>
refactor later
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<riceandbeans>
get something that works first
<RubyPanther>
probably why it fails so much, it doesn't do everything it would need to do to actually be portable
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<weeb1e>
I literally would settle for windows tray icon, tray menu and tray balloon support for ruby
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<weeb1e>
But the only implementation of that stopped working at 1.9.1, and I need to use 1.9.3
<jrobeson>
ji really think you should not use ruby for this
<jrobeson>
and i'm sticking by that
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<jrobeson>
you'd do better by making a webapp..
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<weeb1e>
An embedded web server would work great for details and configuration options, but I need tray support for running the application in the background and showing notifications with tray balloons
<jrobeson>
at least hten you don't have to ship the ui
<jrobeson>
get a browser with web notifications
<weeb1e>
jrobeson: This is a client-side application for a reason
<RubyPanther>
It isn't that hard to code in windows, it is only a few dozens lines of gunk
<jrobeson>
run it in the backround in the webserver with sidekiq,resque
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<jrobeson>
weeb1e, then don't use ruby..
<shevy>
hahaha
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<shevy>
weeb1e look at them all go at it! :D
<weeb1e>
jrobeson: I'm not rewriting this application.
<jrobeson>
sounds like you will be later
<shevy>
weeb1e it's like a lake of piranhas here
<jrobeson>
when you spend hours and and hours and realize what you want isn't feasible
<RubyPanther>
I'd trade 80M for even 1 line of gunk, myself, as long as I only install it once per machine
<jrobeson>
when somebody stops supporitng that release
<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: The windows API is terrible and I cannot find any existing implementations of a balloon tray notification
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<RubyPanther>
weeb1e: don't look for Ruby examples, look for Perl examples and it is close to the same in Ruby
<jrobeson>
just like what you see with only 1.9.1 of that thingy being supported, .. it's gonna happen again
<volty>
if you can implement, in AutoIt, a prog that reads a 1) creates a system tray icon 2) attaches menu reading it from a file 3) monitors a dedicated file | directory for files containing messages to show 4) writes to a dedicated file |directory a chosen menu item /// it's worth, and could be worth for other projects
<RubyPanther>
I probably have an old Perl one somewhere
<jrobeson>
i bet perl has better gui toolkit support than ruby :)
<jrobeson>
i think i've only ran one perl gtk app in my life tho..
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<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: The amount of time I will waste messing with the windows api will not be worth it :(
<jrobeson>
but thats 1 more than the ruby gtk programs
<volty>
ruby does not have a decent sound library either
<weeb1e>
volty: I'd use stdin/stdout for the IPC between AutoIt and ruby, which I have actually done once before
<weeb1e>
But since this is a deployed client-side application, I'd rather not resort to such a hack
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<weeb1e>
Also, there is one other issue with that plan
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<weeb1e>
One reason I need a tray icon for the ruby application is so that it can be minimized to the tray
<shevy>
I always wondered
<bnagy>
bet the tray stuff is all COM anyway, which is a huge pain to use from ruby
<weeb1e>
If a seperate process is creating the tray icon, it will not work
<volty>
i do not see it as a hack, i would see it as a generic utility, like kdialog (and other linux cli utilities with which you can create menus, windows etc)
<bnagy>
so using pure win32api probably isn't even 'possible'
<weeb1e>
bnagy: I'm sure it's possible, it is just not worth the effort
<volty>
the winapi is a nightmare
<RubyPanther>
weeb1e: it seems to me that 80M is a small price to pay for portability and platform independence
<weeb1e>
^
<shevy>
yeah we heard that before
<shevy>
and next iteration
<shevy>
its 90M
<shevy>
then it's 100
<shevy>
then 120
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<volty>
i've never done something with win api, i've done, many years ago, with the nice borland's delphi - that simplified the interface
<RubyPanther>
I just checked my old Perl app, and it is true, I have probably 100 lines of code just dealing with the windows API for the tray icon, not even counting useful code
<bnagy>
nah COM is a nightmare, native API is luxury
<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: I doubt I'll find a linux user who would have a problem with my CLI, and at the same time, there is not one windows user who doesn't have a problem with any CLI
<weeb1e>
So far my best option is probably wxruby
<weeb1e>
But the one thing it is missing, which I really need, is balloon notifications
<weeb1e>
I suppose I could spawn an AutoIt binary to create each notification
<shevy>
hehe
<weeb1e>
I've searched the web from beginning to end for a balloon notification implemented in ruby
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<shevy>
so much pain...
<weeb1e>
Other than that outdated 1.9 code, there is nothing
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<weeb1e>
Maybe someone here can get VRuby compiling against 1.9.3
<RubyPanther>
weeb1e: you might want to consider using bundler to try to simplify the install for your windows users
<RubyPanther>
In Gtk that is easy
<RubyPanther>
What is worth more, your time, or 80M of somebody else
<RubyPanther>
's disk?
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<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: I'm not going to install bundler or ruby on the users machine, I have everything packaged which is extracted to my applications directory
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<weeb1e>
That 80MB increase for a 7MB application is ridiculous
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<volty>
you can remove it after if you need it only for installation
<xybre>
weeb1e: there's some packaging tools that gather together Ruby for windows
<weeb1e>
volty: The point is I don't want my tiny 7MB application to be 100MB just for a barebone GUI interface
<weeb1e>
I thought I made that clear already :/
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<shevy>
hehe
<shevy>
this is a loop here
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<xybre>
weeb1e: Native GUIs are a problem. It should be possible to directly communicate with the Windows API though and build your interface that way. It will likely be only a couple k, but it'll take more research.
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<weeb1e>
xybre: Exactly, no one has implemented that in directly in ruby, other than the link I just pasted above which broke post 1.9.1
<RubyPanther>
still though, I don't see where you are choosing a metric and measuring and finding 100M to be too big for some use.
<xybre>
weeb1e: You can use FFI for that though.
<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: The alternative implementation of my client application that is written in C# is under 10MB
<volty>
it cannot be implemented directly in ruby
<xybre>
RubyPanther: its ridiculous.
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<weeb1e>
I don't need my application to be that small, but making it huge just for a basic GUI is a complete joke, sigh
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<weeb1e>
xybre: The time it'll take to implement all that with the winapi will not be worth it
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<xybre>
weeb1e: I agree. Unfortunately most Ruby applications use web frontends or CLI. So there's been very little development on the GUI front lately.
<weeb1e>
Indeed :(
<xybre>
If you can get away with a web interface, I'd really suggest it.
<RubyPanther>
I used to run my OS off of one floppy, and telemate off another. It was a big improvement over booting and then removing the DOS disk to run telemate, because then if I downloaded any files I'd have to swap disks like 10 times and if I was too slow my modem would time out. So I do understand the pain that oversized software can cause
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<xybre>
You could even package it up with a tiny web viewer app that would make it look native.
<RubyPanther>
but if it just sounds big, I'm not sure that is hurting your users
<weeb1e>
xybre: If I could get a tray icon and balloon notifications working with ruby (so it can be minimized to tray and have visible notifications), I would settle with an embedded web server and web UI for details and configuration
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<weeb1e>
But the tray stuff is required, and so is the application running client-side
<weeb1e>
This application is a syncing client
<weeb1e>
It does content distribution, so it requires access to the file system
<RubyPanther>
it obviously isn't an app you think the users find important
<xybre>
weeb1e: You could use Ruby as the backend and use one of the web/native wrappers to do the rest.
<RubyPanther>
you obviously believe your users to value your app less than, say, minesweeper
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<shevy>
lol
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<shevy>
the comments are slowly becoming epic
<weeb1e>
xybre: Not an option, and not really worth going into all the different reasons why
<jrobeson>
why are we spending time talking about this anymore
<RubyPanther>
if somebody installed a 3rd party "minesweeper" and it was 100M, would they get sticker shock? Or not?
<shevy>
hahaha
<jrobeson>
we could talk about ruby panthers
<jrobeson>
or what a shevy is
<shevy>
I want to know now...
<shevy>
weeb1e, is your app more useful than minesweeper?
<xybre>
weeb1e: Then you're kinda stuck unless you go for Jruby, but then thats a whole new ball of wax. FFI is the only way to do it right I think.
<weeb1e>
I would not install an alternative minesweeper implementation if it is 100MB when I can install a 10MB implementation that does almost exactly the same thing.
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<jrobeson>
ruby panthers are more fun
<shevy>
RubyPanther man, if I download an app with 100M, then I expect a PERFECT 3D flashing minesweeper with full story, sexy voice narrating what is happening and why I must play minesweeper to save the world
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<weeb1e>
+1
<weeb1e>
It better do stress testing on my GPU while it is at it
<shevy>
oh
<lewellyn>
speaking of... off to find sultry background music.
<shevy>
the only thing I read anew now is using FFI
<jrobeson>
FFI FTW?
<RubyPanther>
shevy: assuming you have 60 minutes of audio, and it at least uses CD quality FLAC, you're already over 300Ms and we haven't even created a single sprite yet
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<shevy>
die FLAC, die!
<jrobeson>
uhmm.. just die flac for game music.. i'll take the flac on the soundtrack
<weeb1e>
Ok, I'm gonna settle with wxruby for GUI and tray + compiled AutoIt binary for balloon notifications. It will mean the balloon notifications will use a second tray icon, which is not ideal, but it is the best solution there is.
<xybre>
I found some ruby code from 2005 thats supposed to create a system tray icon
<jrobeson>
hehe
<RubyPanther>
If I was stuck on windows and I had to install a 3rd party minesweeper, I'd be happy if it didn't force me to install 700Ms of .NET packages
<xybre>
Its... some of the uglist ruby code I've ever seen
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<weeb1e>
xybre: vruby/swin?
<sweeper>
there's always rubytk!
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<jrobeson>
it's always tk to you people
<xybre>
weeb1e: no, straight API
<weeb1e>
xybre: And you think it works?
<RubyPanther>
rubytk has no tray access, you still get stuck with Win32
<weeb1e>
I doubt it is complete
<shevy>
ruby code can indeed be very ugly
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<xybre>
weeb1e: From 2005 when 1.8.x(?) was current? Probably needs some changes but it might be worth a look.
<weeb1e>
No one has implemented tray balloon notifications in pure ruby, or if they have, they have not released that code
<volty>
weeb1e: what GUI? didn't you say you only need a context menu on the tray icon?
<weeb1e>
xybre: I already tested that earlier, it does not include balloon notifications and is broken in several ways
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<shevy>
omg
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<shevy>
we are still talking about this jrobeson
<weeb1e>
volty: Yes, but if I'm going to have to use wxruby, I might as well use it for GUI as well, instead of a seperate embedded web server
<xybre>
Then learn the win32 API and add the notifications, I can probably google it, I bet with that as a starting point it wouldn't be too bad.
<weeb1e>
xybre: Back to it not being worth the effort :/
<weeb1e>
I have wasted too much time just on this conversation
<jrobeson>
shevy, it looks like when the problem is interesting.. people will continue to talk about it, even when building a crazy monster
<shevy>
lol
<xybre>
Then write it in VisualC, there's not really another option.
<weeb1e>
If I was less sleep deprived, I would not still be here
<shevy>
nooo weeb1e dont stop now :(
<shevy>
nooooooooo
<volty>
weeb1e: i would stick to the web server // good luck anyway :)
<shevy>
we *must* find a solution
<RubyPanther>
What is "interesting" is believing a size is too big/small without even having a metric
<jrobeson>
RubyPanther, so why do you continue to contribute to the discussion?
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<weeb1e>
volty: No point in embedding a web server if the framework I'm gonna use for the tray icon supports GUI...
<RubyPanther>
because I am "interested," I just said so
<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: I actually did give you a solid reason
<weeb1e>
My client is an implementation of an already existing C# GUI application
<volty>
if it supports it well, if you know it well, if you can deal with it, well ...
<xybre>
I wouldn't want to use a library that is 10x the size of my application unless I knew it was going to be preinstalled on every system.
<jrobeson>
why not just fix the C# GUI..
<RubyPanther>
weeb1e: no, you did not identify any metric at all!
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<weeb1e>
While I don't care if my application is 2x or even 3x the size of the C# application, I do care if it is 10 or 20x the size
<weeb1e>
And so will users
<RubyPanther>
why 2x and not 20x?
<lewellyn>
what this conversation has proven is that my personal bar for my little skunkworks project is set to high and that people will be happier if i only manage half of my 1.0 todo list by 1.0 ;)
<weeb1e>
I think I am being trolled by a Panther :|
<lewellyn>
too high even.
<RubyPanther>
if it is the digits, use base 32 and problem is solved. And no, I'm being 100% serious.
<jrobeson>
haha :)
* lewellyn
rubs the grease off his o key. stupid roasted chicken.
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<shevy>
weeb1e this is how he got banned from #ruby-lang
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<weeb1e>
lol
<weeb1e>
jrobeson: My application is cross platform (at least it's CLI interface is)
<lewellyn>
robbyoconnor: run for your life. abandon hope all ye who enter here right now
<RubyPanther>
I'm right though, just as a basic matter of engineering, you have to have a metric before you can decide if something is "too" big or "too" small
<weeb1e>
And doesn't require .Net
<RubyPanther>
otherwise it is handwaving
<jrobeson>
well much of the mono stuff runs on linux
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<weeb1e>
jrobeson: I'd far rather write anything in ruby and avoid .Net for the rest of my life
<jrobeson>
err .net stuff.. via mono
<shevy>
his metric are users who will say: "THIS SHITTY APP IS 1 GIG LARGE!!!"
<weeb1e>
Which is why I started this in the first place
<lewellyn>
RubyPanther: he has a metric. the alternative implementation is 10MB.
<jrobeson>
the cli stuff is well implemented..
<weeb1e>
I stopped using .Net many many years ago, and do not plan on going back, ever.
<RubyPanther>
my experience with mono on linux is that real world stuff doesn't work
<volty>
«The current wxRuby version is [2.0.1], released on 9 Sep 2009»
<lewellyn>
weeb1e: i'm still scarred from C++.net
<weeb1e>
I refuse to install mono on my servers.
<jrobeson>
RubyPanther, that's why i said just for the CLI.. that part should work fine
<weeb1e>
I would rather (and just did) rewrite the entire .Net application in ruby
<jrobeson>
it's the gui part that is mssed up
<jrobeson>
that sounds like a mistake to choose ruby
<jrobeson>
not sure how you got htis far without considering the gui situation
<RubyPanther>
lewellyn: right but there is no reason given why the size of a C# implementation matters at all
<jrobeson>
where ti's such a big concern to rewrite it now
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<jrobeson>
choosing ruby if you planned on a gui with crossplatform toolkits was a bad idea.
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<lewellyn>
RubyPanther: sure there is. it's the smaller alternative. and i don't think he said it was c#. if he did, i missed it in all the pointless noise.
<weeb1e>
jrobeson: My application was origionally primarily for linux, I only decided to add a GUI after the whole application was built because there was a huge demand for it from windows users
<jrobeson>
and i love ruby.. it's just that not enough people care about doign that kinda thing
<RubyPanther>
"why is this one bigger than the C# one?" "It is a trade-off because this one takes less programmer time to maintain" "Oh, great, you're more expensive than my HDs!"
<volty>
now that every f. gadget, even sold in the third world, has gigabytes of capacity, somebody is concerning by 80 mb :)
<volty>
concerned
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<volty>
i'm joking
<lewellyn>
and the lack of concern is precisely why our disks have software that takes orders of magnitude more space than 20 years ago while not necessarily being any more functional.
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<weeb1e>
wxruby would do everything I need if only it supported tray balloons, sigh
<RubyPanther>
What is lacking is a use case where you're saying, "it has to run on this plug computer running windows 3.11 with Win32s extensions and a 120M disk"
<jrobeson>
code them? :)
<RubyPanther>
it sounds like it actually runs on a regular desktop computer
<weeb1e>
jrobeson: You first
<jrobeson>
weeb1e, sounds like you should go ahead and implmeent them
<jrobeson>
why should i..
<jrobeson>
i don't care about doin regular guis
<jrobeson>
ever
<weeb1e>
Because I hate the winapi far too much
<jrobeson>
but you in fact do
<jrobeson>
pay somebody?
<weeb1e>
There is a reason every person who has attempted to do just that in ruby has failed
<jrobeson>
you're selling this app right?
<jrobeson>
pay somebody to do it
<weeb1e>
No.
<weeb1e>
It is freeware
<jrobeson>
these those people who care about downloading all that stuff
<RubyPanther>
"if only" and yet, Gtk does all the stuff you need. It does all the stuff, and it is bigger. And other ones are smaller... but don't do all the stuff.
<jrobeson>
have them donate to make it happen
<RubyPanther>
Sounds to me like you are in desperate need of 80M or so of GUI features.
<shevy>
lol
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<shevy>
he does not want to stop weeb1e
<weeb1e>
Somebody please feed this panther, I don't like the way it is looking at me
<shevy>
he feeds on your misery
<weeb1e>
Then he'll never need to eat again
<jrobeson>
this is ridiculous
<shevy>
:D
<weeb1e>
jrobeson: I couldn't agree more
<shevy>
now we understand why matz created mruby
<shevy>
everything will become minimal
<RubyPanther>
I just want to pick a metric, and actually calculate if it is too big, or not too big, based on a real reason. You sound like my dad complaining that the restaurant that sold pancakes for $2.50 in 1980 now charges $6 (if you make minimum wage it is actually cheaper now)
<weeb1e>
I'm counting down the minutes until mruby is optimized to the level of LuaJIT
<jrobeson>
i downloaded pidgin on windows
<jrobeson>
and had no problem with the gtk depedency
<jrobeson>
even thoug hi had no other program that used it
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<jrobeson>
it as worth it because the program provided enough value
<volty>
maybe this way: you write a configurable systray app in qt c++ under windows, compile it statically (that way it copies only the basic libs) and you check the size
<volty>
s//static/
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<weeb1e>
I wonder if wxruby can make a borderless GUI window with a mostly transparent background
<weeb1e>
That could probably work instead of a tray balloon
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<volty>
why not a normal window, then?
<weeb1e>
Because it'll look ugly and could get in the way of something important
<volty>
who knows if wxruby can make a window with a shape of a naked woman
<volty>
i got it
<volty>
enough of it
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<RubyPanther>
if you're hacking together your own balloon window, it is safe to assume it will have bugs and get in the way of something important
<weeb1e>
Should be possible, if I can make it look sort of ok, that would be better than spawning something to create a new icon and balloon
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<weeb1e>
RubyPanther: Well it's the best option I have
<RubyPanther>
it might look a little... home brew... but at least it won't look like a bloated, professional feature-rich app
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<weeb1e>
And will be 15MB instead of 150MB
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<volty>
going this way you risk to fill the chan with 150MB of talking about 15 vs 150
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<RubyPanther>
Yeah, at whatever your regular billing rate is, how many megabytes of HD could you buy for the time spent trying to shrink this thing? For your sake, I hope you'll billing somebody for this adventure.
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<weeb1e>
Not billing anyone :(
<weeb1e>
But it will probably be my first and last GUI ruby application ever
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<volty>
guis with qtruby are wonderful, the prob. is the maintenance (though for now it works quite well)
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<volty>
$systray.menu.addAction('back timer') { s = guiGetText("bell after (mm:ss)"); tt = to_sec(s); shot_after(tt * 1000) { $systray.message("Timer (#{s}!!!" } }
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<volty>
(abstract - though not so much)
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<weeb1e>
volty: What is $systray? qt?
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<seaworthy>
yo how the heck do i import a local library
<seaworthy>
via require
<weeb1e>
seaworthy: What kind of "local library"?
<seaworthy>
like another .rb file in the same folder
<volty>
weeb1e: Qt::SystemTray derived class, i set it globally because i need it often
<seaworthy>
i want to user it as a library
<seaworthy>
use*
<weeb1e>
seaworthy: require "./whatever.rb"
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<weeb1e>
volty: Yeah, while qt would be perfect (and I love all Qt based applications), it is just too massive for such a tiny application
<seaworthy>
okey doke thanks works
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<weeb1e>
volty: It looks like someone added balloon support to Wx but since it is not in the wxruby API docs, it obviously is not included in the ruby bindings :(
<weeb1e>
Well, seeing as the patch is on that wiki page, it probably isn't even in the official wx library
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<volty>
probably
<volty>
you can see if there's an automatic builder for wxruby
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<weeb1e>
Then again, wxpython includes ShowBalloon()
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<volty>
you can, then, bundle with python -- instead of bundling with wxruby or whatever else :)
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<weeb1e>
lol
<vpretzel>
Anyone know of a workaround for when installing ruby-1.9.3-p125 even when forcing --which-gcc=gcc? I'm running in zsh but all recommendations I can find online have been fruitless
<vpretzel>
Including directly setting CC=gcc and clearing CFLAGS
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<volty>
vpretzel: i can't realize what is your problem
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<vpretzel>
I cannot install ruby-1.9.3-p125 through rvm - would you like the specific error? i can provide a gist
<volty>
vpretzel: switch to bash if you think your zsh could cause prob.
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<vpretzel>
volty: i just tried that without any luck
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<volty>
cannot find a gcc ? // could you post just the relevant line?
<vpretzel>
Sure - give me just a minute
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<vpretzel>
regparse.c:582:15: error: implicit conversion loses integer precision: 'st_index_t' (aka 'unsigned long') to 'int' [-Werror,-Wshorten-64-to-32]
<vpretzel>
18 return t->num_entries;
<vpretzel>
Error running '__rvm_make -j 1',
<vpretzel>
I know i have GCC installed properly - I've homebrew'd uninstall and installed
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<vpretzel>
I also have readline installed and that doesn't work.
<vpretzel>
It's an incredible issue that I cannot figure out.
<volty>
are you on os x ?
<vpretzel>
Yes
<vpretzel>
just tried rvm install 1.9.3-p125 --with-gcc=clang --with-readline-dir=$rvm_path/usr with the same error
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<volty>
then install macports and after apple-gcc42
<volty>
(with macports)
<vpretzel>
Not sure how that's any different than installing apple-gcc42 with homebrew
<vpretzel>
:-/
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<volty>
make sure you have the right cc (e.g. /opt/local/bin/gcc-apple-4.2)
<pontiki>
having messed up my old mac mini with several different package managers, i would like to say "don't do that"
<pontiki>
but i don't have a fix for you either
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<vpretzel>
I did a cc --version, and got:
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<vpretzel>
$ cc --version
<vpretzel>
Apple LLVM version 5.0 (clang-500.2.76) (based on LLVM 3.3svn)
<vpretzel>
Target: x86_64-apple-darwin13.0.0
<vpretzel>
Thread model: posix
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<vpretzel>
pontiki: that's exactly what i want to avoid. not a huge fan of multiple package managers. I know 1.9.3-p125 is just flawed to hell and later support for clang is what I should be after but unfortunately I'm stuck with it.
<volty>
find where is located your apple-gcc42 and prefix CC=<that one - fullpath>
<pontiki>
macports, like other bsd ports, cruelly but inevitably would break on me
<pontiki>
i just seemed to have bad luck with it
<vpretzel>
configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
<pontiki>
so i did fink
<pontiki>
cos debian
<pontiki>
but now homebrew has tasty deliciousness
<dorei>
vpretzel: i think that this cannot create executables error is also reported when the configure script can't find/execute the C compiler
<vpretzel>
home-brew has been reliable for me. Unfortunately, i don't think this is an issue with home-brew because i can install just about every other freaking ruby
<vpretzel>
i can install 2.0 no problem, i'm pretty sure i could install 1.9.2 no problem will try now
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<volty>
vpretzel: i don't know for sure, but could be: i install with no problem in the morning, some problems during the afternoons, and many many problems in the late evening
<vpretzel>
Too bad I've been trying all day....
<pontiki>
vpretzel: sorry, wasn't trying to say it's a panacea; just addressing volty's question
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<vpretzel>
successful install of 1.9.2
<vpretzel>
arg.
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<volty>
pontiki: i'll remove fink and ports from the mac and try homebrow, thanks
<vpretzel>
1.9.3-p125 is the clients choice right now, and it's giving me a good run for my money.
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<vpretzel>
Any other suggestions out there?
<volty>
what gives: sudo rvm install ruby-1.9.3-p374 --with-gcc=gcc-apple-4.2
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<volty>
?
<dorei>
have u tried compiling it outside rvm?
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<volty>
ops p125
<volty>
dorei: same prob. since the code isn't clang compatible
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<volty>
brew tap homebrew/dupes \n brew-install apple-gcc42
<volty>
this one too, without requiring apple-gcc42, just with regular gcc: CFLAGS="-Wno-error=shorten-64-to-32"
<vpretzel>
I have not tried outside of rvm to be honest
<volty>
vpretzel: try this last with, prefix with those CFLAGS that prevent that error just CFLAGS = ... rvm install ...
<vpretzel>
The irony of that CFLAGS i learned today is that RVM already attempts to apply that
<vpretzel>
I'm this close to doing a full wipe of my system, sadly.
<vpretzel>
Same issue CFLAGS, same with sudo gcc
<vpretzel>
but it wasn't gcc-apple-4.2 it was apple-gcc42
<volty>
maybe the different package managers name it differently
<vpretzel>
regparse.c:582:15: error: implicit conversion loses integer precision: 'st_index_t' (aka 'unsign ed long') to 'int' [-Werror,-Wshorten-64-to-32]
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<volty>
CCFLAGS
<volty>
not CFLAGS
<volty>
sorry
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<vpretzel>
ARGH the irony volty !!! I tried compiling from source and i get the SAME error
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<volty>
not possible, CCFLAGS (two 'C') should prevent that error // try to export the variable (EXPORT CCFLAGS = ... ) try to see the configuration file of your cc
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<volty>
don't know, one c, two c's ...
<vpretzel>
Trying it with 2 c's right now
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<vpretzel>
But i believe it's only C
<vpretzel>
for c-language
<vpretzel>
yeah same error
<volty>
yes but the compiler is cc // who knows ...
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<volty>
try to force that apple-gcc
<volty>
somebody removed xcode
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<vpretzel>
I have Xcode on my machine
<vpretzel>
i'm an iOS dev too ha
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<vpretzel>
Maybe ruby is trying to tell me something.
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<pontiki>
software is a communication to the developer
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<volty>
the last resort is going to edit that file directly, casting explicitly
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<vpretzel>
urgh well i give up
<vpretzel>
tomorrow i do a wipe :(
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<Nogbit>
has anyone worked with Glade for creating GUI's and programming in Ruby? Whats your thoughts or other recommendations?
<coderhs>
I have seen tutorials with it. Looks good, though the only implementation i have seen is a calculator
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<Nogbit>
hmm, I'm also looking into wxRuby/wxWidgets, I know thats apples to oranges comparing that to Glade
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<DrIDK2>
I found in many ruby code, some keyword like that directly inside the class
<DrIDK2>
And I wonder how it works
<DrIDK2>
class Car property: test end
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<platzhirsch>
Okay, let's scrape some websites, nokogiri seems nice
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<TwinkleHood>
Hey, I'm having some problems with sockets, if I run a TCPServer in irb, and a client I can connect them fine. But when I do session.gets on the client, and server.puts on the server, it gives me Errno:EPIPE: Broken pipe
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<Dwarf>
Anyone got any experience with with DataMapper? I'm creating a record but it fails sporadicly
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<jarr0dsz>
hi everyone im getting a issue with ruby 2.1.0 preview 1
<jarr0dsz>
digest/sha2 cannot be load im using ruby 2.1.0dev (2013-09-22 trunk 43011) [i686-linux]
<jarr0dsz>
is that a known issue? lookedup core docs the functionality is not merged out according to docs
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<sniffingcats>
Is anyone aware of a gem/library allowing to easy generating of "heatmaps" of the world? Like "number of people all over the world", etc.
<AntelopeSalad>
is it better to always include "self." when using instance method variables for clarity or is it more ruby-like to just leave it off?
<apeiros>
I prefer leaving `self.` off
<banisterfiend>
AntelopeSalad the only time we need self. is when we're using setters
<AntelopeSalad>
banisterfiend: so you leave it off too?
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<banisterfiend>
AntelopeSalad Yeah
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<AntelopeSalad>
i'm looking at a few open source rails projects and it seems both styles are used frequently
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<banisterfiend>
AntelopeSalad can you show an example of it being used? maybe there's a reason for it unrelated to just stylistic
<shevy>
AntelopeSalad after you type a few hundred times self.foo when you could instead use foo, you'll start to omit self.
<AntelopeSalad>
ok fair enough, i was just confused because i saw this line: self.errors.add(:foo, "does not exist.")
<AntelopeSalad>
(in a rails model class)
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<banisterfiend>
AntelopeSalad it could also be disambiguating from a local of the same name
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<AntelopeSalad>
with the knowledge that self. is optional then it's correct to say that the errors method gets added to your model instance by default?
<banisterfiend>
AntelopeSalad yeah
<AntelopeSalad>
ok cool, now it makes sense -- thanks
<banisterfiend>
AntelopeSalad but these are rails questions :) and we don't really like them here, there's tonnes of rails-specific questions on free node :)
<banisterfiend>
rails-specific channels*
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<AntelopeSalad>
banisterfiend: the self. thing was general ruby!
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<banisterfiend>
AntelopeSalad yes, that part was :)
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<apeiros>
krz: what have you tried?
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<krz>
apeiros: its fine. onto something. think i need to turn it into an array first
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<D4T>
hi all, I have a string of "0.00000400" that I want to increase the value of by 10% but struggling as floats don't seem to play nice. anyone have any suggestions?
<platzhirsch>
Trying to spell check arbitrary text with just Aspell and some additional rules is a horrible idea..
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<apeiros>
D4T: require 'bigdecimal', that has arbitrary precision
<D4T>
apeiros: ok thanks! :)
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<D4T>
apeiros: I'm struggling even with bigdecimal :( i think because of the value I end up with notation like "4.0e-06"
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<D4T>
I'm struggling them to turn that into anything useful
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<apeiros>
D4T: BigDecimal#to_s with 'f' as argument
<apeiros>
also, shouldn't you have like 4.4e-06 if you increase the value by 10%?
<D4T>
no its just the base value for now
<D4T>
just playing in irb
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<D4T>
thanks for that, i should of figured it really :/
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<shevy>
you are deep in it weeb1e
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<AntelopeSalad>
has anyone gotten nokogiri to install properly with ruby 2.0?
<shevy>
I am still on 1.9.3
<AntelopeSalad>
i installed the libxslt-dev and libxml2-dev deps and it's still failing to install (unknown error, it just hangs)
* sevenseacat
tries
<sevenseacat>
it does take a while, i know that much
<AntelopeSalad>
i waited a full 15 minutes
<apeiros>
AntelopeSalad: works fine here
<workmad3>
weeb1e: you're trying to compile it with mingw or another gcc toolchain for windows?
<sevenseacat>
well mine is installing, ill let you know :P
<AntelopeSalad>
thanks
<sevenseacat>
fans have spun up... something is compiling
<AntelopeSalad>
i'm trying to install it with bundle btw, but not directly -- i'm using a different gem that uses nokogiri 1.60
<workmad3>
AntelopeSalad: installed it fine just yesterday
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<AntelopeSalad>
the bundle just hangs at installing nokogiri (1.6.0)
<shevy>
aha I fail too
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<shevy>
Fetching: nokogiri-1.6.0.gem (100%)
<shevy>
Building native extensions. This could take a while...
<shevy>
ERROR: Failed to build gem native extension.
<shevy>
ERROR: Error installing nokogiri:
<AntelopeSalad>
i never get that error output :<
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<workmad3>
not sure I tried with 1.6
<AntelopeSalad>
workmad3: i'm installing sunspot
<AntelopeSalad>
or trying to at least
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<sevenseacat>
installed successfully
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<shevy>
Could not create Makefile due to some reason, probably lack of
<shevy>
necessary libraries and/or headers. Check the mkmf.log file for more
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<shevy>
but there is no such file
<shevy>
:\
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<shevy>
someone should really work through the ruby stack and clean up that mess... to report that one should check mkmf.log when this file does not exist, is annoying
<AntelopeSalad>
the installation wiki for nokogiri says you need some ruby C extensions or whatever
<AntelopeSalad>
but it's all for ruby 1.8
<sevenseacat>
nokogiri 1.6.0 installed under ruby 2.0.0-p247
<AntelopeSalad>
i tried putting in 2.0 and they all were not found
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<shevy>
ok found one error
<shevy>
cannot load such file -- mini_portile
<AntelopeSalad>
sevenseacat: did you ever install a ton of ruby/C extensions?
<workmad3>
shevy: I normally just have issues finding it, rather than it not existing
<workmad3>
shevy: as it ends up in the ext/ directory of the partially installed gem
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<shevy>
hmm
<AntelopeSalad>
workmad3: can you do me a huge favor and try to bundle install sunspot_rails?
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<AntelopeSalad>
that is the exact lib i'm using with the same ver as ruby as you
<workmad3>
AntelopeSalad: I don't have it in any bundles :P
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<sevenseacat>
only the basics afaik
<shevy>
it continues now after having installed mini_portile
<sevenseacat>
i have latest version of sunspot_rails already installed under ree, if that counts
<workmad3>
shevy: do you have '--ignore-dependencies' in your .gemrc?
<shevy>
nope workmad3, this is a vanilla system, no default .gemrc anywhere
<shevy>
and annoyingly enough it just tried to do this:
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<AntelopeSalad>
sevenseacat: do you remember having to install anything extra to get it to install properly?
<shevy>
Extracting libxml2-2.8.0.tar.gz into tmp/i486-slackware-linux/ports/libxml2/2.8.0... OK
<shevy>
Running 'configure' for libxml2 2.8.0... OK
<workmad3>
shevy: just a bit odd that gem didn't fetch the dependencies
<sevenseacat>
not that i can remember
<shevy>
I never did tell it to do any of that, and I already have libxml compiled from source into /usr prefix without error
<shevy>
does nokogiri not work with libxml 2.9.1?
<AntelopeSalad>
hmm maybe it's working, htop says my cpus are close to pegged
<AntelopeSalad>
how the heck did it not finish in 15min though
<shevy>
AntelopeSalad hehe could be anything else too ;P
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<AntelopeSalad>
shevy: i'm in a vm, there's close to nothing taking cpu time atm
<AntelopeSalad>
but if the cpu is working hard it's probably doing something heh?
<shevy>
or working through an endless loop
<AntelopeSalad>
maybe but it seems to be a problem isolated to my machine, if sevenseacat has it up and working
<shevy>
the sevenseacat is our last hope
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<shevy>
let's hope that it won't become sixseacat any time soon
* sevenseacat
installs sunspot_rails for the fun of it
<AntelopeSalad>
i'm so jealous
<workmad3>
shevy: just checked the gh repo for nokogiri... 1.6 bundles libxml2 and libxstl, and needs libxml < 2.9.0 if you want to use a system one
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<workmad3>
there, it just finished installing for me
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<kke>
has anyone made something that switches grape or roar into camelCaseMode when there's some header like 'X-JSON-CamelCase' present?
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<kke>
i wonder what's the deal with having roar and representable as different gems, looks like mostly roar is just doing "include Representable::Something"
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<gcds_>
hmm hello
<gcds_>
how fastly rebuilt gem and test it?
<gcds_>
without going removing from system and installing again?
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<havenwood>
gcds_: if you edit the gem's files the gem changes - if you want to clone the gem and build it yourself you can do that too
<gcds_>
havenwood: I know.. But everytime gem uninstall gem; rake install; run gem... it's kind lame
<havenwood>
gcds_: i mean just go change the gem and it is changed
<havenwood>
gcds_: (the installed gem)
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<havenwood>
gcds_: building it yourself is only if you actually want to build the gem - if you just want to change it, do so where it got installed and it is changed with need to build anything
<wm3|away>
^^ although that's only really good if you're trying to debug the gem in a particular context
<havenwood>
s/with/without
<wm3|away>
you'd also need to rebuild extensions if you were trying to change the native extensions in a gem
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<havenwood>
sure, if native ext ignore my suggestion :P
<Morrolan>
Without native extensions I'd wonder why it "takes that long to rebuild the gem". :P
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<havenwood>
compiling, yuck
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<Morrolan>
Maybe the after_install hook calls wait(10**5) ;D
<wm3|away>
Morrolan: well, if you're doing things 'properly' then it's probably about 10s to build the gem, then maybe 30s to gem install it (dependency checks and IO operations)
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<Morrolan>
That must be quite a big gem, then.
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<wm3|away>
Morrolan: I'm assuming there's no scripting so commands are typed in ;)
<Morrolan>
Oh. ;)
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<Morrolan>
What do you mean by building it 'properly', by the way?
<felipec>
can somebody explain to me why this doesn't work? p { :foo => "bar" }
<wm3|away>
Morrolan: running the rake task to package it as a .gem file, then doing a 'gem install <gem>' to install it
<wm3|away>
felipec: because 'p' is a method, and ruby will therefore treat the {} as a block, not as a hash
<havenwood>
felipec: syntax issue, the `{` is ambiguous (interpreter thinks it is signifying beginning of a block there, not a Hash as you intend).
<wm3|away>
felipec: you need explicit parens there
<Phobos>
Morrolan, you're right but I had some troubles with that, it's seems like I am forced to use hash because I want to access keys with their symbol name
<Morrolan>
Define the hash with the desired key, use an array as value. Then just append to that array.
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<Phobos>
Morrolan, I see.. That's the only possible method to do that ?
<Morrolan>
Err, yes.
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<Morrolan>
A hash is an association of keys with values. If you want to store 'multiple' values for one key, you'll need something which can contain multiple values.
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<Morrolan>
I'm probably explaining it way more complex than required. :P
<Phobos>
Morrolan, I must say.. That I find ruby great.. But coming from PHP world I can say that PHP is much ahead in Array/hash area
<Morrolan>
Eh?
<Phobos>
much much ahead
<Morrolan>
So tell me how PHP handles it.
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<Morrolan>
(Code example works too, I can probably read it)
<Phobos>
Morrolan, all the problem is that I am trying to port some PHP scripts to ruby
<Phobos>
ok
<Morrolan>
Unless it's using some obscure PHP magic. ;D
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<Phobos>
Morrolan, this is exactly what I am trying to port
<havenwood>
Phobos: Couldn't be much further from the truth that PHP data structures are ahead of anything. Not being easy to port is no sign of superiority...
<Morrolan>
That is PHP's way of appending to an array.
<Phobos>
Morrolan, my problem is then when I do sorting based an priority which works brilliantly : the problem is that sort return an array to me instead of a hash
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<Phobos>
Morrolan, and that gave me too much troubles
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<Phobos>
Morrolan, here : @sorted[event_name] = @listeners[event_name].sort
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<Phobos>
it works and it really sort the things as I want.. But it returns an array
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<Buuyo>
shevy: just taking the processor out and stuff vs soldered in ones?
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<Buuyo>
or are you talking about reprogramming the processor because it happens to be an fpga
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<pontiki>
how do i pass an array argument to a rake task?
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<weeb1e>
I guess I'm gonna have to post to the ruby-ffi mailing list, chances are no one here is going to know of a solution :/
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<pontiki>
forex: rake new_post['My Aardvark is Cool',critters,aardvarks,cool] or sommat
<pontiki>
so i can gather up the last 3 as categories
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<mneorr>
Buuyo: yeah, my primary editor is sublime 3
<mneorr>
but for some things, experimenting with test runners etc, vim is really a good learning exercise
<mneorr>
and can be really powerful
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<SteveBenner9>
rake needs a better argument handling system
<SteveBenner9>
or a remake in general
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<waxjar>
what do people use rake for?
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<Kelet>
I mainly use it to run tests
<havenwood>
waxjar: Rails mostly :P Or whatever you'd have used make for, but yeah i use for running tests and usually only have one or two tasks
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<waxjar>
i did use it for tests as well, but i noticed most testing libraries come with their own executable anyway
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<havenwood>
waxjar: i think nice to have a `rake` from top level dir run the test suite, so you can quickly run tests without figuring out testing framework oddities
<havenwood>
convenient convention
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<waxjar>
hmm, seems sensible yea
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<mneorr>
havenwood: waxjar using rake to run tests is probably the slowest possible solution
<havenwood>
a `bundle` and `rake` resulting in green tests on a project that's new to you is a lovely surprise
<Morrolan>
Running utility scripts in general. E.g. something which fetches a required resource from the web.
<Morrolan>
Removing and recompiling PEG grammars.
<Morrolan>
I don't really like it for testing. It raises an exception when encountering a non-zero exit code.
<Morrolan>
(This can probably be turned off, I never really dove into it.)
<havenwood>
mneorr: i'd rather rake take a couple milliseconds than whatever time it'd take me to figure out how to run all specs/tests manually
<mneorr>
`rspec spec` ?
<mneorr>
or `bundle exec rspec spec`
<havenwood>
mneorr: nope, this pretend project doesn't use rspec
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* waxjar
doesn't use rspec
<havenwood>
mneorr: now you gotta look, what does it use?
<havenwood>
mneorr: rake wins
<havenwood>
mneorr: unless you just happen upon the correct testing setup at least, those milliseconds seem worth it :P
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<havenwood>
sure if you know it is rspec, or its your own project, but i still think nice to take the effort to create a light Rakefile for others' sake
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<havenwood>
maybe `rake` running tests/specs is a more common convention for gems more than for apps? dunno, i like it
<mneorr>
for running the whole suite, yeah - you can use rake
<mneorr>
but if you want to run frequently, a single file, you'll wait 5x more to boot up rails 2x than for running your test
<havenwood>
Rails...
<mneorr>
doesn't matter, sinatra :)
<mneorr>
since booting up rake will boot up the whole app
<waxjar>
i like to use cutest :D
<waxjar>
only thing i hate about it is that it always exits with statuscode 0 :/
<apeiros>
if anybody has ideas/recommendations, please tell!
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<shevy>
what is the default encoding of cvs files?
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<apeiros>
shevy: none
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<apeiros>
there aren't any real defaults in csv. neither are there any options to annotate your csv. so either the author of the csv tells you, or you have to guess.
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<r0bgl33s0n>
is the raise of StopIteration the only way to know an enumerator has gone out of bounds? is the internal index available?
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<r0bgl33s0n>
shevy: CSV doesn't have metadata, you could fake it.
<r0bgl33s0n>
shevy: by inserting a row of meta information that wouldn't be read past until it could get encoding information from it.
<shevy>
r0bgl33s0n hehe I would not know, I did not use CSV a lot. I actually dont have a lot of table format data... usually I use yaml
<r0bgl33s0n>
i really want to figure out this enumerator problem im having
<r0bgl33s0n>
finding it hard to believe StopIteration is the only way
<apeiros>
r0bgl33s0n: an enumerator doesn't necessarily have an index, neither does it necessarily have a size
<shevy>
that is out of my league, I don't think I have ever seen a StopIteration error myself
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<r0bgl33s0n>
apeiros: it has a current position, though, right
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<apeiros>
r0bgl33s0n: depends on your definition
<apeiros>
you can count how often you called .next
<r0bgl33s0n>
apeiros: let me show you the code i have
<r0bgl33s0n>
one sec
<r0bgl33s0n>
true i could :)
<r0bgl33s0n>
is that the way then?
<apeiros>
shevy: just do `enum = [].each; enum.next`
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<apeiros>
r0bgl33s0n: why? what are you trying to do?
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<apeiros>
usually you should just be able to do .each on an enum
<apeiros>
also, loop do/end rescues StopIteration and breaks
<r0bgl33s0n>
apeiros: i want to resume the iteration raised on
<shevy>
cool
<apeiros>
r0bgl33s0n: that's out of context. can't tell much by that :-/
<shevy>
my first StopIteration error
<r0bgl33s0n>
apeiros: yeah, that example doesn't reproduce the case very well. i want to iterate an array of libraries, recover from a LoadError, and resume at the next iteration.
<apeiros>
r0bgl33s0n: but in that code alone, yes, StopIteration is the way to go
<shevy>
is there the opposite of .next ?
<r0bgl33s0n>
prev
<apeiros>
r0bgl33s0n: uh, just rescue within the each?
<r0bgl33s0n>
apeiros: its more complicated than that :)
<apeiros>
ok
<r0bgl33s0n>
i will wrap the raise
<r0bgl33s0n>
i was just curious
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<shevy>
r0bgl33s0n hmm .prev does not seem to work
<shevy>
NoMethodError: undefined method `prev' for #<Enumerator:0xaa19ec4>
<r0bgl33s0n>
apeiros: i'll paste some code in a bit, its not finished yet, if youre still around
<r0bgl33s0n>
shevy: ah sorry
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<r0bgl33s0n>
shevy: doesn't seem to exist
<shevy>
rewind is ok
<shevy>
I mostly just wanted to loop around
<weeb1e>
Oh well, I'll move on to another project for another 5 hours or so and repeat my question. Hopefully with a little luck, timezones will match up at some point and someone smart may be able to help me with FFI :|
<shevy>
I dont think I had a need to use .each so far myself
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<orangerobot>
after reading the manual page for Array, i think that << and push are the same. Is that correct?
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<apeiros>
orangerobot: almost
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<apeiros>
push can handle multiple arguments, << can't
<apeiros>
other than that, same, yes
<orangerobot>
apeiros: thanks
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<shevy>
I think the pickaxe said that << is faster
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<Freeaqingme>
Hi folks. I've got an array {key1 => value1, key2 => value2} How can I join tese so that I get a string like "--key1 value1 --key2 value2" ?
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<apeiros>
Freeaqingme: map them to '--key value' then join with ' '
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<Freeaqingme>
nice
<Freeaqingme>
soon I'll even start to like Ruby, tnx apeiros :)
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<shevy>
huh
<shevy>
what is the solution
<DEA7TH_>
I'm trying to pick a GUI toolkit for my Ruby project, I only need simple interface and readable code for a large-ish project
<mib_mib>
has anyone used capybara?
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<DEA7TH_>
wondering if I should use Shoes or maybe Qt
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<Freeaqingme>
wm3|away, thanks! Was just looking to see how I could use .map with keys
<shevy>
didn't know one could .map over a hash
<shevy>
or perhaps I forgot
<IceDragon>
#map is a Enumerable method
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<banisterfiend>
an*
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<DEA7TH_>
IceDragon: why, is Shoes bad?
<IceDragon>
I never said it was bad
<DEA7TH_>
it looked like it's not exactly meant for big projects
<IceDragon>
exactomo
<wm3|away>
^^ although I guess you could create a larger project using it with green_shoes
<IceDragon>
I never said it was bad, and I knew shoes wasn't meant for heavy duty work, thats why I just recommended GTK
<DEA7TH_>
it's not exactly large, tho: 5.5 months of solo work as a university project
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<MrZYX>
IceDragon: did you work with GTK and ruby yet? If yes, GTK2 or GTK3? what binding did you use?
<DEA7TH_>
also I need it to do simple things and will probably need simple interface
<IceDragon>
GTK2
<IceDragon>
My 3 bindings are broken
<wm3|away>
green_shoes packages shoes up as a gem (around gtk, iirc), so it becomes just a normal dependency rather than the original shoes implementation :)
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<IceDragon>
To be exact, almost every single gui toolkit on my ruby installation is broken
<MrZYX>
yeah, that's my issue. I'm a gnome person DE wise but couldn't find a gtk/gobject ruby binding that seemed fun to use
<IceDragon>
TK, QT, GTK3..
<IceDragon>
;_;
<MrZYX>
a friend of mine seems quite happy with the qt bindings (not sure if 4 or 5)
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<shevy>
IceDragon ruby-gtk2 works still?
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<IceDragon>
>-> not sure
<shevy>
I finally got it to work again after switching to 1.9.x
<IceDragon>
O really don't remember which binding it was
<shevy>
tk
<IceDragon>
TK HATES ME
<shevy>
everyone hates tk
<IceDragon>
>_> It segfaults everytime I try to require it
<shevy>
they said that tk no longer looks ugly
<MrZYX>
I think I saw a working gobject binding somewhere, so there's something out there that you can work with but I guess it won't be memory leak free nor very abstracted
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<havenwood>
^ tl;dr: require 'era'; time { 'this is still returned but elapsed time is printed' }
<orangerobot>
is it possible to add a new attribute to an object at runtime? (note that i don't want to set the value of an already define attribute, I want to temporarily have my object have an attribute which wasn't define in the class definition)
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<shevy>
orangerobot mostly only if your class allowed that
<shevy>
like to call a method on the object that does this for you
<MrZYX>
orangerobot: in general yes. But it doesn't sound useful
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<MrZYX>
also attribute isn't the most clear terminology
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<orangerobot>
MyZYX instance variable
<orangerobot>
i want to define a new instance variable for an object at runtime
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<MrZYX>
so why do you think you need that?
<shevy>
this is only possible if you have had defined on your class to do that before orangerobot
<MrZYX>
shevy: there's instance_variable_set
<shevy>
MrZYX how does it work on something like: class Cat; end; cat = Cat.new ?
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<r0bgl33s0n>
apeiros: nvm, ended up solving the problem totally differnet
<apeiros>
^^
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<MrZYX>
shevy: don't remember if it's public or private but you can always combine it with send
<shevy>
ah yes
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<MrZYX>
but for me it's only a metaprogramming or debugging tool, so what is your usecase orangerobot
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<shevy>
there you go orangerobot class Cat; end; cat = Cat.new;cat.send :instance_variable_set, '@x', 5
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<shevy>
this often makes me wonder why ruby has private and public at all when you can pretty much do everything you want to anyway...
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<MrZYX>
to declare the intended use
<orangerobot>
MrZYX: I have a Node class. I have lots of methods that take a Node as parameter. Say I havea method M where for example I want to sort Nodes into groups. I would like to be able to define a new variable called group_name for my Nodes, but I only want this new instance variable to be present in method M.
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<MrZYX>
shevy: so you know when you leave the path the author thought of
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<orangerobot>
otherwise I would need to define in class Node every possible variable every client might want to use
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<MrZYX>
wrap it or use a datastructure that can save the group name, maybe something simple as a hash
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<MrZYX>
maybe even subclass from your node
<orangerobot>
MrZYX: what if I define a new instance method for class Node at runtime. And, within this method, I set a random @foo variable that wasn't defined in the class definition?
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<MrZYX>
your Node sounds like an augmented Hash then
<MrZYX>
or maybe an OpenStruct
<DEA7TH_>
if I write a Ruby GUI program, would I be able to compile it or something, so that the user will be able to run it without installing a Ruby interpreter?
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<shevy>
weeb1e, look! DEA7TH_ is almost following your path ;)
<shevy>
DEA7TH_ ruby will work only if you have some way to interprete the .rb files
<shevy>
so a user will need to have ruby installed and most likely the toolkit used as well
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<DEA7TH_>
uh. Is there no way to make it executable?
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<orangerobot>
MrZYX: but at least adding instance methods dynamically to an object is possible, though?
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<MrZYX>
sure, ruby doesn't prevent your from doing stupid things for the very rare cases where it isn't stupid
<orangerobot>
something like my_object.class.add_method(new_method)
<MrZYX>
I don't think we have one of these here
<shevy>
DEA7TH_ not that I know of. if you need real executables, you need a C or C++ program
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<MrZYX>
orangerobot: also note that adding instance methods to your objects very often during runtime will have an impact on performance
<orangerobot>
i just want to decouple my Node class from the clients that use it
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<MrZYX>
whether you couple it at runtime or not doesn't make much of a difference to me
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<MrZYX>
if you randomly add methods and/or instance variables you still need to pay attention to have no conflicts among the "clients" doing that and the class definition itself
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<MrZYX>
so all your clients and your node class are coupled
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<orangerobot>
MrZYX: ok thanks for explaining
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<MrZYX>
so for your grouping case, I'd just store them in hash like {"group1" => [node, node,....], "group2" => [node, node,...]}
<MrZYX>
if a lot of complex stuff needs to happen on that datastructure I'd wrap that into a class
<MrZYX>
this way your node doesn't need to know anything about your client and your client doesn't need to know anything about the inner structure of your node nor about the behavior of other clients
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<orangerobot>
MrZYX: i see. thanks for helping
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<gyzmodo>
hey guys
<gyzmodo>
how can i test yourself do i know programming basics or not?
<gyzmodo>
is there any recommended sites?
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<Xeago>
gyzmodo: you can do some recruitment questions
<Xeago>
but most are too technical/academical
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<gyzmodo>
where i can find this questions? :)
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<Xeago>
google
<Xeago>
I can give you one of the tests I usually try
<DEA7TH_>
Xeago: I considered this actually, but I don't want to force the user to install Ruby
<Xeago>
yea might be it too, think you specifically mentioned an improved csv
<Xeago>
DEA7TH_: then host it somewhere for them?
<DEA7TH_>
hmmm I think I get some advantage from having everything locally available for them
<MrZYX>
list the advantages
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<Xeago>
hell, distribute it as a vm/docker/lxc/similar image ;)
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<Stalkr^>
Do you guys think it's worth learning vim/emacs in 2013?
<MrZYX>
hm, didn't we tell you to ask no editor questions please? :P
<Stalkr^>
I don't remember that, sorry
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<DEA7TH_>
MrZYX: if the server dies, the business won't be able to run until it gets back up
<DEA7TH_>
the application *needs* to be used once daily, on most days
<DEA7TH_>
also, some people have really slow web connections - using a website could slow their operation
<DEA7TH_>
(although I intend to make the website minimalistic, I don't even need to include pictures)
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<weeb1e>
DEA7TH_: You can package your ruby application with a exe for windows
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<weeb1e>
But the source will still be in rb files, it'll just be packaged together with ruby and your apps dependencies
<weeb1e>
DEA7TH_: The main issue with packaging a GUI ruby app is the size of the GUI framework
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<weeb1e>
I have that exact issue myself, I'm not willing to turn a 7MB packaged CLI application into a 90MB package just for a simple GUI
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<weeb1e>
I'm working on implementing a basic GUI and system tray UI from scratch using FFI and the windows API
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<weeb1e>
Unfortunately getting the tray part working is a little tough, there is a function which FFI does not want to attach to. Unless someone comes up with a workaround to make it work with FFI, my plan is to wrap that function in a DLL, since using it requires a manifest
<shevy>
noooo
<shevy>
please
<shevy>
don't say you are STILL at it!
<shevy>
this is going to take weeks weeb1e
<weeb1e>
shevy: I am not known to give up
<weeb1e>
I can't work on it full time, but I will be giving it my best shot in hope of coming up with a working solution before next week
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<shevy>
what language does one have to know in order to use FFI on windows? C++?
<weeb1e>
shevy: FFI is a ruby gem...
<DEA7TH_>
weeb1e: my customer (father) really insists he should have an offline interface :P
<weeb1e>
You don't need to write native code
<weeb1e>
DEA7TH_: If size of the package is not an issue, it should be pretty easy for you to use GTK or Qt
<DEA7TH_>
he claims that some people have a very slow connection, so they should be able to do it offline
<shevy>
weeb1e well
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<shevy>
weeb1e I am sure people who dont know C or C++ will barely be able to do much useful stuff with FFI alone
<weeb1e>
DEA7TH_: If their connection is very slow, I don't think they will be able to easily download a 100MB package, in which case you're in the same boat as I am
<weeb1e>
shevy: Well, I guess, but I'm mostly working from the windows API docs
<DEA7TH_>
I'm not worried about that because my customers are companies, so there will be a few of them
<weeb1e>
shevy: The thing is, this issue has nothing to do with the API directly, or native code. The dll file exposes its interfaces in some weird way which requires a custom manifest specifying the version in order to load it. That is done with a manifest or the equivalent pragma comment in Visual Studio, but with FFI I have no idea how to accomplish it
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<weeb1e>
I can attach to all the other functions I need just fine, but FFI thinks LoadIconMetric() is "missing" from the DLL
<DEA7TH_>
also would I be able to get Gems working on GUI Ruby? (Rails is only for web, right?)
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<DEA7TH_>
ah, apparently gems are separate from Rails
<weeb1e>
DEA7TH_: Look at the "releasy" gem, it is a wrapper around the Ocra gem which packages stuff for windows, including gems
<DEA7TH_>
would all that run on Windows?
<DEA7TH_>
nice!
<weeb1e>
It'll take some trial and error to get everything packaged correctly, but it is doable
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<apeiros>
sadly doesn't work in github's rendering :(
<Xeago>
ok
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<zastern>
Why is it that I can call an instance or global variable that hasn't been defined, and it returns nil, but local or class variables return errors?
<zastern>
I'm not saying the behavior isn't clearly defined.
<zastern>
I'm wondering "why"
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<momomomomo>
zastern: Well, if we delve in to the definition of the behavior, we see that "When an uninitialized local variable is referenced, it is interpreted as a call to a method that has no arguments.
<momomomomo>
Assignment to uninitialized local variables also serves as variable declaration. The variables start to exist until the end of the current scope is reached. The lifetime of local variables is determined when Ruby parses the program."
<momomomomo>
That is the 'why' for local variables
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<zastern>
hmm ok
<zastern>
thanks!
* apeiros
still thinks auto-vivification of globals and ivars is harmful
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<momomomomo>
apeiros: I'll auto vivifi you
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<apeiros>
I already got wifi, thanks
<momomomomo>
~_~ I didn't know about autovivification, thanks for the heads up
<momomomomo>
would have been neat to know a while ago when I was doing crazy/stupid things with Hstore
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<AntelopeSalad>
i can't guarantee there will be no integer past the first -
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<apeiros>
then split and map
<AntelopeSalad>
i would say 90% of the time there won't be but then 10% of the time it would break heh
<apeiros>
as the others already said
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<AntelopeSalad>
yep thanks
<platzhirsch>
Are there other ways to get the module name inside a module instance method than: self.method(__method__).owner ?
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<banisterfiend>
platzhirsch if you want to find the owner of the current method that looks like a reasonable way to do it
<apeiros>
platzhirsch: I wonder why you'd do that
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<platzhirsch>
apeiros: not sure anymore, let's see...
<platzhirsch>
apeiros: ah right, in this module I look for classes that are part of the module. I select them generically based on a parameter and in order to use constantize, I need the model
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<apeiros>
o0
<apeiros>
ok, I decided I don't want to know the details :)
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<platzhirsch>
yeah, I am thinking through the whole model right now :P
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<shevy>
human are curious people
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<dcunit3d>
anyone know if you can use Rails Engines with Rails-Api?
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<dcunit3d>
specifically, the doorkeeper oauth2 provider engine
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<shevy>
is this good API design:
<shevy>
def parse!(args)
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<Morrolan>
Ruby stdlib devs would say: Only if there's a parse method, too. Third-party devs would say: Yes, if it might do something destructive or somehow 'dangerous'.
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<shevy>
hmmm
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<withnale>
has anyone seen this error before when trying to install a gem in 1.9.1 ?
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<withnale>
/opt/vagrant/embedded/include/ruby-1.9.1/ruby/ruby.h:105:14: error: size of array ‘ruby_check_sizeof_long’ is negative