<jhass>
you confuse @@class_variables with $global_variables
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<ka-el-man>
jhass: i use @@variables in my programs to be acces anywhere
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<jhass>
kumarat9pm: my python is rusty, but don't you have to access instance variables with self.foo there? I would call that special notation
<zenspider>
kumarat9pm: patently false. find me an OO language that doesn't mention instance-based state (no matter the name)
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<jhass>
ka-el-man: try accessing them in BasicObject then
<jhass>
also don't
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<zenspider>
smalltalk, self, python, C++, obj-C, java... I can go on
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<zenspider>
even perl's BS bolt-on OO
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<zenspider>
(which is a horrible mess)
<ka-el-man>
lol
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<ka-el-man>
i'm quit a beginner in ruby , as you can see :)
<ka-el-man>
funny that i almost don't use globar variables , but mainly @@
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<jhass>
you should use neither IMO
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<zenspider>
there is no "should" there... they have their place
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<zenspider>
but it is a very limited place
<ka-el-man>
i use them because i use my object throughout my program
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<jhass>
yes, the should means try to not use them until you can reason why there's no better solution left
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<jhass>
everything in ruby is an object, that's kind of a non-argument
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<jhass>
you probably meant to use a CONSTANT though
<ka-el-man>
yeah well i mean, when i have a string, i don't want to declare it everytime
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<ka-el-man>
monkey patching, as it is called right?
<jhass>
not at all
<jhass>
class Array; def what_am_i; :a_monkey; end; end;
<jhass>
that's monkey patching
<ka-el-man>
In Ruby, the term monkey patch was misunderstood to mean any dynamic modification to a class and is often used as a synonym for dynamically modifying any class at runtime.
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<graft>
misunderstood? what's the "correct" meaning of monkey patching?
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<ka-el-man>
it says people have differences in the meaning of monkey patching
<ka-el-man>
i was searching for the definition :)
<graft>
i've only ever heard it used that one way
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<ka-el-man>
at runtime
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<jhass>
to me it means modifying code you do not own
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<ka-el-man>
"and many other dynamic programming languages, the term monkey patch only refers to dynamic modifications of a class or module at runtime,|
<ka-el-man>
owww i see
<jhass>
in your code, not writing patches for upstream
<ka-el-man>
the term i would have to use, for what i was doing was spaghetti code
<jhass>
sounds very much like it ;)
<ka-el-man>
i think that describttion is more accurate
<graft>
i think spaghetti code means code where you don't write methods
<jhass>
it means code with no proper structure or vision
<ka-el-man>
funny thing is, my structure changes constantly
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<jhass>
just an assorted conglumeration of code that somehow more or less works but that no one can really follow anymore after a week
<graft>
write-only code
<jhass>
that's not a bad thing
<jhass>
as long as one can follow and reason about your code
<ka-el-man>
but i have to see, i'm a lone coder, i don't have people coding with me in a team or something
<graft>
e.g. any perl code
<ka-el-man>
*say
<jhass>
ka-el-man: if you got something like < 500 loc feel free to post it here and ask for review ;)
<baweaver>
not in chat not in chat not in chat
<graft>
yeah, i've never written code with another person before either, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't write good code... you have to read it, after all
<baweaver>
gist
<jhass>
you can post larger project too, just less likely to find somebody investing that time ;)
<baweaver>
graft: There's good perl code
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<ka-el-man>
yeah i still haven't actually a constant structure, i'm constantly optimizing
<baweaver>
No language intrinsically means good or bad code, mind.
<ka-el-man>
and never written anything officially, always testing
<baweaver>
it's what you do with it
<baweaver>
yes, even php *shudders*
<ka-el-man>
like an official program for people or something, always programs for myself
<graft>
baweaver: i disagree with that. that's why i'm in #ruby not #perl
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<jhass>
ka-el-man: doesn't matter
<graft>
baweaver: perl's OO is definitely inferior to ruby's OO
<baweaver>
graft: that's naive
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<graft>
why? i mean i can objectively construct languages with inferior syntax, so it's definitely possible
<graft>
i don't think you can say categorically that all languages are equally good
<baweaver>
Do you honestly think a language designer means for a language to be bad (aside from esoterics)
<baweaver>
good for different things
<jhass>
ka-el-man: hearing someones else's thoughts on something you already thought through still gives the best learning experience in my expierence
<graft>
whether or not they mean it is immaterial
<baweaver>
but the problem is very rarely the language. Only a crappy programmer blames their language for their own lack of experience.
<ka-el-man>
btw, graft and jhass, your color code is so similar, i have to pay attention :D
<graft>
meh. i think some languages lend themselves to better style
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<baweaver>
You can write crap code in any language
<baweaver>
even python
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<baweaver>
which prides itself on standards and one way of doing things
<graft>
undoubtedly, yes, but it's easier to do things badly in some languages than in others
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<baweaver>
programmers fault
<ka-el-man>
for me the reason why ruby is a great language, is because for me it's the closest to human english
<graft>
some languages are type-safe, others are not... this means some kinds of errors are only possible in some languages
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<ka-el-man>
of all other mainstream languages
<baweaver>
so static is objectively better than dynamic
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<baweaver>
or the converse if you prefer
<baweaver>
I'll let you in on a little secret: There is no absolute right way
<jhass>
I prefer statically typed but letting the computer find out the type for me :P
<graft>
i'm not trying to argue that one language is objectively better, but languages definitely have different features, which means we should expect them to be different in terms of things like code legibility
<baweaver>
inferred type
<jhass>
;)
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<ka-el-man>
the ultimate programming language is a language that thinks for itself
<baweaver>
legibility is a weasel word
<ka-el-man>
:P
<baweaver>
and heavily skewed based on personal bias
<ka-el-man>
but that is in itself rather dangerous
<graft>
generally speaking, i find it difficult to read perl because i can't remember what all of those $: things stand for
<graft>
sure, this is about personal bias
<baweaver>
I have people claiming Ruby is hard to read and Java is sublime
<graft>
and it probably is, for them
<baweaver>
I want to whack such people, but that's another bias
<ka-el-man>
ruby has such a nice way to compact things , and still readable
<baweaver>
for some, perl is more readable because they don't need to type more than necessary.
<ka-el-man>
like excessive code
<baweaver>
to me, single letter variables and shorthand is a crime against future programmers
<ka-el-man>
if you really want to know, what i am talking about with excessive code, take a look at hello world, in other languages
<baweaver>
depends what's meant by excessive
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<baweaver>
So much of programming is relative and based on opinion, people seem to forget that.
<ka-el-man>
of course because it is interpreted
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<baweaver>
then you could argue excessive time to run
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<ka-el-man>
too bad that many languages don't have the same speed
<baweaver>
rarely does it matter
<ka-el-man>
of course
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<ka-el-man>
don't you want the most out of your hardware?
<baweaver>
in my case, I'd have people at my throat if I used a slower language for certain things
<baweaver>
don't you want the most for your time?
<baweaver>
any argument has a counterpoint
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<baweaver>
and the answer is often 'it depends'
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<ka-el-man>
of course but mainly you wan't that your program doesn't run slow
<baweaver>
but if slow is the difference of fractions of a second for a few runs, why bother?
<baweaver>
when you save hours on writing the thing
<ka-el-man>
well as programs get bigger
<baweaver>
often they don't
<baweaver>
premature optimization is the root of all evil
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<baweaver>
and done is far better
<ka-el-man>
what about both
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<baweaver>
good luck
<ka-el-man>
hahahha
<ka-el-man>
anything is possible right
<baweaver>
there are compromises on everything
<ka-el-man>
sure but the gap can be tightened
<jhass>
use crystal! ruby but fast :P
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<ka-el-man>
like i was checking mobile gaming with ruby
<ka-el-man>
my only options were, java ( i don't like) C ( i don't know)
<baweaver>
JRuby
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<baweaver>
You forget how many languages run on the JVM
<ka-el-man>
well it would be handy if ruby has the speed of C
<baweaver>
or DALVIK or whatever new nonsense they have today
<baweaver>
I prefer to think in what is and what's practical
<baweaver>
higher abstraction will mean slower speed
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<ka-el-man>
fun theory :
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<headius>
higher abstraction *usually* means slower speed
<headius>
or at least more time to get to high speed while you analyze stuff
<ka-el-man>
There was this theory that A.I. was already invented, but it's so smart it's undetectable.
<ka-el-man>
scary thought.
<ka-el-man>
:D
<headius>
I think AI is going to arise spontaneously and there's nothing we can do about it
<headius>
AI is just the ability to take in information and make active, purposeful decisions about that information
<zenspider>
mmmm mentarbation
<headius>
I think the only thing we're missing is purpose
<ka-el-man>
it's not that simple headius
<ka-el-man>
AI is alive
<ka-el-man>
like we are
<headius>
now define alive
<headius>
zenspider: this is #ruby, not #ruby-lang, get it straight
<baweaver>
Mmmm, Lispy
<ka-el-man>
let's say a consciousness being
<headius>
well, that's the thing... are prions alive?
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<ka-el-man>
well you know what i mean, you are alive, i am alive, your cat is alive
<ka-el-man>
your dog
<ka-el-man>
a mouse
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<ka-el-man>
even a tree is alive
<headius>
perhaps we're talking about will
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<ka-el-man>
the level of consciousness is different
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<ka-el-man>
so is the intelligence
<ka-el-man>
no will is something that comes furth out of consciousness
<headius>
honestly I'm hoping for either a nanite or strange matter apocalypse
<headius>
there's no fight involved, we just become part of the new way
<ka-el-man>
the end of the world?
<headius>
ka-el-man: it sure sells tickets!
<ka-el-man>
to whom? xD
<ka-el-man>
there is nobody left
<headius>
hahah
<ka-el-man>
no i think
<headius>
I'll watch from Moon Base One as the earth is consumed by strange matter
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<ka-el-man>
1 binairy upload to your base
<ka-el-man>
and you are dead
<ka-el-man>
AI cutting all life systems
<ka-el-man>
no but, i think it's a real threat
<headius>
I can tell you one thing for sure though
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<headius>
the AI that kills us probably won't be written in Ruby
<headius>
so we've got that going for us
<ka-el-man>
well we can assume that the AI is binairy
<ka-el-man>
and any language is...
<ka-el-man>
that's right binairy
<headius>
qbits
<ka-el-man>
so it can even be in html
<ka-el-man>
xD
<headius>
if I'm killed by an AI written in HTML5 and CSS, I think I'm going to kill myself
<ka-el-man>
then you are still alive
<eam>
we'll be able to kill it during the decade-long gc pause
<ka-el-man>
global EMP
<headius>
it will probably be written in Haskell anyway
<ka-el-man>
ms batch
<ka-el-man>
dammit Microsoft!
<headius>
batch has already killed too many people
<headius>
I think I die a little death any time I have to edit a batch file
<ka-el-man>
hahahhah
<ka-el-man>
if you look at other species alive on this planet, what do they have in common?
<zenspider>
headius: yeah, no doubt
<ka-el-man>
if you restrain them, they will fight back
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<ka-el-man>
they want to survive
<ka-el-man>
that's the reason Skynet went against humans
<ka-el-man>
in the terminator series, the moment it was online
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<ka-el-man>
it didn't attack
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<ka-el-man>
but at the moment the humans wanted it shut down, it fought back
<ka-el-man>
survival
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<zenspider>
clearly we'll be killed by an AI written in C++. There's a reason why the AI needs to be pissed enough to kill us
<ka-el-man>
sooo...
<ka-el-man>
if we ever created AI
<ka-el-man>
LEAVE IT FOR GODS SAKES
<ka-el-man>
befriend it
<ka-el-man>
give it a cake
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<ka-el-man>
or soemthing
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<ka-el-man>
don't piss it off, it will be our demise
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<ka-el-man>
AI + humans = wonderful utopia, deceases being cured, space travel
<ka-el-man>
etc
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<ka-el-man>
think yarvis at a global scale
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<ka-el-man>
but it's too much of a risk
<ka-el-man>
so will we control technology in the future, or will it control us
<ka-el-man>
(The Matrix )
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<ka-el-man>
or can there be a peace between us? Peace? NO PEACE! ( ID4 - lab scene )
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<ka-el-man>
and if a robot has truelly AI, can it not dissobey the 3 laws
<headius>
zenspider: makes sense...C++ is basically a macro assembler that achieved sentience and killed its creators
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<headius>
the battle cry of our time should be "There is no Stroustrup!"
<ka-el-man>
:P
<ka-el-man>
there was an article some years ago of a graphene chip
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<ka-el-man>
that ran at 1 Thz speed
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<ka-el-man>
why is it not in my phone!
<ka-el-man>
we are getting at the Nanometer boundry here in chip size
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<ka-el-man>
headius: what do you think
<benzrf>
the 3 laws are flawed
<ka-el-man>
graphene first or quantum computers
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<benzrf>
hella flawed
<headius>
I saw some of the graphene and molybdenum work
<benzrf>
theyre way too simplistic
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<headius>
pretty cool stuff if they can get it to production
<headius>
real 3D chips with minimal heat dissipation requirements
<headius>
pretty scifi tho
<ka-el-man>
aha
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<ka-el-man>
because the cores amount doesn't really grow up
<ka-el-man>
how many people have a 8 core machine
<ka-el-man>
not many
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<ka-el-man>
so will it be a totally other type cpu ( graphene most likely) or 200 cores
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<ka-el-man>
or will nvidia and amd bring out a cpu+gpu in 1 chip for desktop
<ka-el-man>
and software be optimised to use cores inside it
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<ka-el-man>
questions, questions...
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<ka-el-man>
it's pretty amazing , that our mobile phones are catching up on desktops
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<ka-el-man>
cores, screen resolution , Sensors,
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<headius>
ka-el-man: I want you as my CTO some day
<ka-el-man>
hahah why
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<ka-el-man>
i was just thinking about becoming a computer-philosopher
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<headius>
it would be a lot better than the shriveled up raisin CTOs that stopped exploring decades ago
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<headius>
but now I must go, farewell
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<ka-el-man>
headius: great talking to you!
<ka-el-man>
headius: have a nice day
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<jhass>
ka-el-man: did you watch the ghost in the shell stuff?
<ka-el-man>
nope
<jhass>
you should, you gonna enjoy it
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<jhass>
it's basically a thought experiment on how humans and AIs can coexist, what defines a human in a world where we can synthesize everything etc.
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<ka-el-man>
well i think the answer is co-exist
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<ka-el-man>
any form of life that comes into existence, has to deal with other lifeforms on this planet
<ka-el-man>
and the only way forward is for them to co-exist
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<jhass>
let's be honest, we don't even manage to do that among ourselfs
<jhass>
how should we with a new species
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<ka-el-man>
that is the test
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<ka-el-man>
wether it will be from technology or from outside earth
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<ka-el-man>
are we mature enough to co-exist as a species
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<ka-el-man>
and looking at the world today, it differs greatly
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<zenspider>
mature enough to co-exist with another species when we can't even do that with ourselves? hahaha
<ka-el-man>
i know
<ka-el-man>
rather tragic
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<ka-el-man>
but like that old lady in the matrix said, the only way to get their, is together
<ka-el-man>
like if you only have 5 people left on earth
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<ka-el-man>
if they all say f*ck it, were doomed
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<ka-el-man>
if they work together, than hey!
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<jhass>
you need 20-30 indivduals to bootstrap a new population
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<jhass>
5 is not enough, no matter how hard they try
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<ka-el-man>
you just need 2
<jhass>
no
<jhass>
google "incest"
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<ka-el-man>
i know
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<ka-el-man>
but i was talking about progression
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<ka-el-man>
if we don't solve ourselves we are doomed
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<ka-el-man>
if it were certain a comet would it us, in say like 50 years
<ka-el-man>
would the world unite?
<ka-el-man>
would that common cause be enough
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<eam>
the world effectively is united
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<ka-el-man>
then why do we have borders
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<ka-el-man>
that seperate us
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<eam>
you expect no internal organization?
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<ka-el-man>
yeah i do
<eam>
here's the thing, "we're not united" is sort of a fallacy -- surely no one expects every last person to agree on every last thing
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<ka-el-man>
i agree
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<eam>
the question is whether we can unite and co-exist sufficiently to progress as a species and the answer there is clearly "yes we do"
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<eam>
could it be better? sure. or worse? sure. But really, it's not a binary question
<eam>
and we are frankly, extremely effective at working together thus far
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<ka-el-man>
in many aspects i agree
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<ka-el-man>
but there could be me lovingness
<ka-el-man>
less war
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<ka-el-man>
don;t ya think?
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<eam>
yeah, any system could be more efficient
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<eam>
I just don't buy into the gloom and doom "we don't work together as a species" angle
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<ka-el-man>
i can understand
<ka-el-man>
but i think it's with any species in the agalxy
<ka-el-man>
galaxy
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<ka-el-man>
a maturing test
<ka-el-man>
the more technology advances
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<ka-el-man>
the more we have to be responsible
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<eam>
I think that's a projection. There's no need for a successful species to have any concept of humanitarian notions
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<eam>
there are many other sociological constructs which might result in growth, starships, etc
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<ka-el-man>
well any species that reaches a level of sophestication has to deal with themselves one way or the other
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<eam>
sophistication isn't necessarily a requirement
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<ka-el-man>
it would happen logically among many species
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<ka-el-man>
advancement is no requirement yes, but it's natural
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<eam>
here's a counterexample as a thought experiment: humans build AI which knows how to replicate and spread, but has no notion of humanity. It wipes out humans, spreads across the galaxy
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<eam>
the genesis of this artificial species is just as legitimate as our own
<eam>
and more successful!
<ka-el-man>
it it were truelly alive
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<ka-el-man>
it would have compassion
<ka-el-man>
would it not
<jhass>
and we're back to defining "alive" ;)
<eam>
no, I don't know of any meaningful definition of life that involves compassion
<jhass>
you gonna enjoy ghost in the shell ;)
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<eam>
for example, worker ants are clearly alive
<eam>
and completely dispassionate
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<ka-el-man>
does your cat not have feelings?
<ka-el-man>
i think so
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<eam>
ka-el-man: an example does not prove an absolute. A counter-example does disprove it
<ka-el-man>
ok
<ka-el-man>
my theory is
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<ka-el-man>
almost any famous animal we know has feelings
<ka-el-man>
i have seen elephants mounr their dead
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<ka-el-man>
i have seen dogs showing affection with others
<eam>
do you think a horse will ever learn to write ruby programs
<ka-el-man>
why not????
<ka-el-man>
elephants can paint
<ka-el-man>
so do apes
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<ka-el-man>
apes can work a computer right now
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<ka-el-man>
if we give a horse the right tool, maybe it can paint also
<ka-el-man>
it elephants and apes can do these things
<ka-el-man>
why not
<eam>
I'm thinking something along the lines of a Clever Hans where the horse types in response to pleasurable reactions from a product management team
<eam>
ouija style
<ka-el-man>
:)
<ka-el-man>
but we are arrogant , and history has thought us that time after time
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<eam>
yes Hans yes, more class abstractions
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<louism2wash>
Hey guys, can anyone help me in understanding exactly what's happening when I create an object in Ruby? It looks like each object a create gets it's own copy of all instance methods defined in the class. Is that the case? Thanks: https://gist.github.com/louism2/b8146055badc3af55a3e
<parabolize>
louism2wash: pretty much yes though you can create methods that work on the class itself rather than the instances.
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<bigmac>
Thread.list
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<louism2wash>
parabolize: ok, but are the methods defined in the class really being copied over to the object's singleton class or is it just a pointer? Seems really inefficient for each object to make copies of all those method :/
<bigmac>
how would you pull a list of how many threads exist
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<benzrf>
louism2wash: thats an implementation detail
<benzrf>
who cares abt operational semantics, lets talk denotationally!
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<bigmac>
if Thread.list.sizeif Thread.list.size<=10; puts "yes"; else; puts Thread.list.size; end
<JDHankle>
ewilliam_: have you tried reinstalling? I mean, it's a bundler error IIRC so perhaps when the gam was installed or some time after the Gemfile packaged with pry went missing.
<JDHankle>
gem*
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<ewilliam_>
JDHankle: yup did that
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<JDHankle>
ewilliam_: hmm... are you using rvm or rbenv or anything like that?
<ewilliam_>
im using chruby and its a really simple setup
<ewilliam_>
JDHankle: ^^^
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<ewilliam_>
on ruby 2.1.3
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<skullman>
list
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<parabolize>
Array?
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<havenwood>
ewilliam_: that's really odd, you might try #pry too
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<havenwood>
ewilliam_: just a sanity check, but what do you get for `which pry` and `gem which pry`?
<JDHankle>
ewilliam_: That error is a failed bundle install command. I have no idea why pry is showing it.
<ewilliam_>
hahaha
<ewilliam_>
havenwood: nice 1, YADR had added new alias
<ewilliam_>
alias pry='bundle exec pry -r ./config/environment'
<ewilliam_>
no fucking wonder
<ewilliam_>
thanks
<ewilliam_>
JDHankle: havenwood thanks
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<havenwood>
ewilliam_: :)
<JDHankle>
cheers.
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<JDHankle>
I wonder if someone has made a safe mode for terminals that disables loading rc files lol.
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<zenspider>
jimbow: how would we know? prolly has something to do with line 2 and with how you run the script
<JDHankle>
because the numbers 1 to 999 are all less than 1000?
<havenwood>
jimbow: you meant `<= 1000` but have `>= 1000` like JDHankle points out
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<jimbow>
oh, thank you so much!
<jimbow>
i'm so stupid
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<havenwood>
jimbow: your loop isn't currently doing anything. if it was doing something though, it'd go on forever since you're not incrementing `n`. consider using `n.upto(1000)` or `(n..1000).each`. skip the explicit `return`s, it'll implicitly return without them.
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<JDHankle>
I hope I didn't sound rude when I answered I just got had no idea what they code was supposed to do.
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<havenwood>
jimbow: gets.to_i.upto(1_000).map { |n| if n.odd?; n * 3; else; n / 2; end }
<jimbow>
i haven't seen someone for 6 years and i remember the last time i saw them, where they were and what they were wearing
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<jimbow>
i even remember how their hair was done
<jimbow>
thanks for explaining me the examples
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<jimbow>
i want to make a course online that will help people learn programming, it will be half practical and half applied... i wish codecademy went in more depth
<jimbow>
then it would be perfect
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<cajone>
jimbow: I have not been following this conversation, but if it has not already been mentioned you should kick up either irb or pry and just mess around with simple stuff till you get a hang of it then with the ruby docs see what you can start method chain together, the beauty of this is you get to see the output quickly without trying to debug to much code, just my 1 cents worth
<cajone>
but if it has not* ^^
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<jimbow>
thanks cajone
<jimbow>
i love you guys!
<jimbow>
i really want to give back one day
<jimbow>
i wish i could give you guys something
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<louism2wash>
Hey guys, is there a way to list all classes that have been loaded into memory?
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<dTSCode>
you mean flush the ram?
<dTSCode>
louism2wash,
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<louism2wash>
dTSCode: I am trying to get a better understand of Ruby as a namespace so I am trying to just get a list of all constants(modules and classes I guess) that are in the global namespace
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<DTSCode>
oops i thought this was ##c++-*. idk how to program in ruby so i actually cant answer your question
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<louism2wash>
parabolize: awesome
<louism2wash>
parabolize: just what I'm looking for
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<jimbow>
hey guys what are the :: in ruby
<louism2wash>
parabolize: this might be a stupid question but how do those constants get defined inside of object? Is there something happening when a class is loaded into memory that also creates a constant in that object namespace?
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<parabolize>
I like perusing with the html docs: ri --server
<jimbow>
stuff::stuff::stuff
<jimbow>
my syntax might be wrong
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<jimbow>
but there are two colons
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<louism2wash>
jimbow: constant lookup operator
<sevenseacat>
namespace separator
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<parabolize>
louism2wash: I don't know
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<jimbow>
louism2wash: thank you
<jimbow>
the course i'm taking doesn't talk about constants
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<jimbow>
are they necessary?
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<louism2wash>
sevenseacat: this might be a stupid question but how do those constants get defined inside of object? Is there something happening when a class is loaded into memory that also creates a constant in that object namespace?
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<louism2wash>
jimbow: classes and modules are actually constants in ruby
<jimbow>
wait...
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<jimbow>
so you use a class to put methods inside it right?
<jimbow>
what is a constant used for then?
<parabolize>
which is silly because you can alter classes
<louism2wash>
jimbow: I am actually trying to get to the root of this right now
<jimbow>
i guess it's answering every question i have
<jimbow>
i love you guys <3
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<louism2wash>
jimbow: you could
<jimbow>
so why would you use one over the other?
<louism2wash>
jimbow: I think you would have some issues with how ruby loads up your .rb files and puts things into the global namespace but I'm not sure
<jimbow>
oh OKAY
<jimbow>
whoops
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<louism2wash>
jimbow: using def instead of class is really throwing me for a loop. You can even include modules inside of method definitions... crazy
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<parabolize>
jimbow modules and classes create new namespaces for your methods they don't replace them. Its just a way to prevent two methods named the same thing from overwiting the other one.
<jimbow>
oh thank you!
<jimbow>
you explained it so well :)
<parabolize>
s/overwiting/overwriting
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<louism2wash>
parabolize: is that the monkey patch concept? you can reopen a class but you would just overwrite a method?
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<parabolize>
I'm not sure I've ever got a definitive definition of monkey patching.
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<sevenseacat>
reopening classes you dont own, and either modifying or adding new functionality.
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<sevenseacat>
eg. people patching extra methods onto Array or String for the fun of it (they seem to be the most common)
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<parabolize>
ah. Thanks
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<jimbow>
why can't we do this?
<jimbow>
if program.rb == program.rb
<jimbow>
instead of
<jimbow>
if __FILE__ == $0
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<jimbow>
s/can't/should
<sevenseacat>
whats program.rb
<jimbow>
just a program
<sevenseacat>
also, if you compare two identical things, it will always be true
<jimbow>
oh
<jimbow>
so if program.rb == true
<sevenseacat>
also, you dont just have 'just a program' when you're talking about ruby code -_-
<jimbow>
to me that makes more sense in my head
<sevenseacat>
that makes no sense
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<jimbow>
if __FILE__ == $0 that means if it's this current file right?
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<sevenseacat>
yes.
<jimbow>
to me that is a bit esoteric
<sevenseacat>
to people who know how to program, it isnt
<jimbow>
why can't we write if program.rb == true
<sevenseacat>
because you havent defined program.rb
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<jimbow>
and __FILE__ is defined?
<sevenseacat>
yes.
<jimbow>
hmm... this is a bit confusing
<sevenseacat>
its a special global variable in ruby.
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<sevenseacat>
also, if you rename the file, it would really suck to have to modify the code
<jimbow>
oh...
<jimbow>
how smart do you have to be to create a programming language?
<ddv>
it's pretty easy
<sevenseacat>
i would say fairly.
<sevenseacat>
i would also say that the vast majority of people have no need to do it.
<ddv>
everyone can write a lexer
<sevenseacat>
oh, not everyone
<ddv>
if you can progam you can make al exer
<ddv>
lexer *
<rpag_>
jimbow, there's a book called, "Create your own programming language" that goes through the steps if youre curious
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<ddv>
maybe you can't program sevenseacat?
<sevenseacat>
didnt say i couldnt
<sevenseacat>
but jimbow here couldnt
<sevenseacat>
therefore, not everyone.
<ddv>
jimbow can progarm
<sevenseacat>
uh huh
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<sevenseacat>
i can see that
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<ddv>
he will learn
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<ddv>
but first he needs to get a better internet connection
<sevenseacat>
well if he learns, then maybe he will be able to in the future
<jimbow>
if you guys are new to programming like i am :)
<jimbow>
thanks for the help guys!
<parabolize>
I like the '__main__' in python more than the $0 in ruby and I like the __FILE__ in ruby more than __name__ in python. __FILE__ == __MAIN__ would be great.
<jimbow>
i think __FILE__ == __CURRENT_FILE___ would be better!
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<parabolize>
indeed it would
<sevenseacat>
i think there are bigger things to worry about
<jimbow>
like?
<jimbow>
well i think you're right... i should learn more about the language
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<sevenseacat>
like actually writing readable and maintainable code
<sevenseacat>
and not quibbling over a single constant name
<jimbow>
i think good code means that you're indenting stuff where it needs to be indented so it's legible and you're giving your variable names nice and descriptive names
<sevenseacat>
thats a small part of it
<jimbow>
really?
<sevenseacat>
yes
<jimbow>
what's the "bigger" part of it
<nrsk>
Hi, all! I have job_parameters['calendar']['timezone_id'] and if I start application it returns correct value, but in tests I have nil and can access to timezone_id only this way: ob_parameters['calendar'][:timezone_id] What could be the problem?
<sevenseacat>
making your code easy to understand
<sevenseacat>
not overcomplicating it
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<ddv>
jimbow: just read code complete or clean code
<jimbow>
will do!
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<rpag_>
jimbow, it comes with practice normally
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<jimbow>
rpag_: i'm going to a dev bootcamp and i hope i'm ready and won't fall behind
<jimbow>
i'm super worried about that
<jimbow>
i'm here asking questions like a moron
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<GreatSUN>
hi all
<GreatSUN>
need your help urgently
<GreatSUN>
trying to install rubysl-pty on rh6 with ruby 1.9.3
<GreatSUN>
getting error 'config.h: no such file or directory'
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<gaussblurinc1>
hi
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<gaussblurinc1>
which things are stored in ~/.gem directory?
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<Phlogistique>
Is there an shorthand for "$_.gsub!" ?
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<Hanmac>
Phlogistique: hm whats inside of $_ ?
<Hanmac>
or can you show us more of your code?
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<Phlogistique>
Hanmac: it's a general question
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<Hanmac>
Question why should there be a shorthand? and what are your parameters for gsub! ?
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<Phlogistique>
The Ruby equivalent of "perl -pe 's/foo/bar/'" is "ruby -pe '$_.gsub!(/foo/, 'bar')"
<Phlogistique>
I'm just surprised that there is no shorthand for this
<Phlogistique>
As there is a shorthand for "$_ =~" (that is "~")
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<rpag_>
Phlogistique, yeah, ruby doesn't have a shorthand for gsub
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<banister>
rpag_ u're up early
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<shevy>
Phlogistique you could ask matz
<shevy>
perhaps he forgot it
<apeiros>
Phlogistique: check Kernel. there are a couple of methods which operate on $_
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<apeiros>
Phlogistique: and if there are none you need, write a gem, call it "perlisms", then run ruby -rperlisms -pe 'have all the fun with perlisms'
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<ddv>
lol
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<ddv>
also I think it's better to be more explicit
<shevy>
well that is no gain for him
<gregf__>
well the $_ is available only with -p and not with -a
<ddv>
no pain no gain
<shevy>
because if he has to add -rNAME then this is as long as his .gsub notation; in this context perl is really shorter
<ddv>
shorter is not always better
<gregf__>
i dont ever intend on using $_ in ruby. *never*
<shevy>
ddv is this about your sex stories again
<ddv>
lol
<shevy>
gregf__ yeah
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<shevy>
but I give that to perl
<shevy>
shame on ruby
<shevy>
:D
<ddv>
perl necklace ^
<ddv>
give ruby a perl necklace
<shevy>
Phlogistique is it enough for you to abandon ruby and stick to perl?
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<Phlogistique>
shevy: no
<Phlogistique>
though sometimes if my program is short enough that figuring out perlisms is shorter than typing 5 more characters, I do write one-liners in perl
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<godd2>
The shortness I'm generally concerned with is the amount of time it takes to read and understand some code.
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<Phlogistique>
gregf__: so you do not intend to ever write a script that does sth like "ruby -ne 'print $1 ~/b(la)h/'"
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<workmad3>
Phlogistique: personally, I'd be against it... that being invalid ruby and all :P
<Phlogistique>
(I meant "ruby -ne 'print $1 if ~/b(la)h/'")
<gregf__>
Phlogistique: i hope not to. if thats needed write it in perl, cuz ruby is a pure OO language ;)
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<shevy>
Phlogistique I myself would not because I can not remember that notation
<shevy>
Phlogistique the way I tend to solve things is by using lots of aliases and methods that I invoke via those aliases
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<shevy>
and | pipes too sometimes
<shevy>
we still don't have a pipe for objects!
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<workmad3>
shevy: you could always go back to Windows for that... MS Powershell lets you pipe around .net objects ;)
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<shevy>
well
<shevy>
windows is annoying me to no ends
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<shevy>
linux and the linux ecosystem isn't that great either but you can adapt a lot in it
<workmad3>
shevy: sometimes I worry that you will never be happy :(
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<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
ruby is not perfect either
<shevy>
it's just a very good language
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<workmad3>
shevy: going by the discussion last night, it's not a good language, it's just not able to write 'correct' programs! ;)
<workmad3>
shevy: too much low level looping and mutable state!
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<shevy>
huh
<shevy>
haskell?
<shevy>
I can't be bothered to download 100MB just to run something!!!
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<workmad3>
heh
<shevy>
oh man
<shevy>
I accidentally soaked one eye with hydrogen peroxide
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<shevy>
that shit burns like hell
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<workmad3>
shevy: well, now you can be happy as a pirate...
<shevy>
hahaha
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<shevy>
need a parrot
<gregf__>
H2O2? is it teargas?
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<workmad3>
gregf__: no, it's a highly-ionizing water-like liquid
<gregf__>
ok
<workmad3>
2 chemists walk into a bar, the first says "I'll have a H2O please", the second says "I'll have a water too please. Why did you say H20? Were you trying to kill me by getting me to drink hydrogen peroxide? I thought we were friends!"
<workmad3>
*H2O
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<godd2>
I prefer the one where the bartender replies "what the hell are you two talking about?"
* disperso
doesn't get the joke
<brushdemon>
t
<brushdemon>
f
<brushdemon>
w
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<shevy>
gregf__ you know, a disinfectant for contact lenses
<workmad3>
disperso: drinking H2O2 is known to be bad for your health... and a chemist saying "I'll have an H2O too please" could be misconstrued as saying "I'll have an H2O2 please"
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<disperso>
workmad3: ah, ok. Didn't get the phonetic thing
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<workmad3>
disperso: it's ok, it wasn't a particularly funny joke in the first place :P
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<workmad3>
disperso: in any of its forms
<pontiki>
ugh, amazon apps
<gregf__>
yeah, is'nt H2o2 used for removing nailpolish :)
<shevy>
don't make fun of my reddish eye gregf__ :(
<gregf__>
heh
<workmad3>
gregf__: Nail polish remover is normally acetone rather than Peroxide
<workmad3>
gregf__: peroxide is more commonly used to bleach hair (i.e. peroxide blonde)
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<shevy>
damn
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<shevy>
you'd never know that workmad3 is a chemi
<pontiki>
nah, we work in a salon
<shevy>
with a big bushy beard
<shevy>
lol pontiki
<gregf__>
ah - man, yeah. acetone
<gregf__>
the swet smelling one ;)
<gregf__>
*sweet
<workmad3>
pontiki: ssh, stop ruining my man-cred! :P
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<pontiki>
WHAA-aaat?? It's FAAABulous!!
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<unshadow>
Hi guys, I just finished a Ruby Script for Sacnning SSL protocols and ciphers (for Linux), it has colored output for weak and vulnerable ciphers and also should detect POODLE CVE, tell me what you guys think: https://github.com/bararchy/ruby-SSLscanner
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<apeiros>
unshadow: you violate some conventions
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<apeiros>
top level Scanner constant is IMO a bad choice. too generic.
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<apeiros>
Scanner -> scanner.rb, and SSLScanner -> sslscanner.rb. ssl_scanner.rb implies you use rails convention, which would be SslScanner
<toretore>
which sucks
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<unshadow>
Ok, I can rename that
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<apeiros>
toretore: the rails convention? (tbh, IMO rails & ruby convention are both bad)
<apeiros>
workmad3: yes. but I hope you know the history behind that.
<workmad3>
apeiros: a bit :)
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<apeiros>
also remember that "ssl_scanner".camlize does not return "SSLScanner" ;-)
<apeiros>
*camelize
<unshadow>
Ok, changed the name ;)
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<MrDoctor>
Does a non-negative complex number make any sense?
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<MrDoctor>
If yes, what is a non-negative complex number?
<apeiros>
MrDoctor: you know that a complex number has two parts?
<apeiros>
and both parts can be positive
<apeiros>
2+3i # both parts are positive, it's a complex number
<MrDoctor>
Yes, that I do, but the complex field is not ordered. That is why I have this doubt.
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<apeiros>
o0
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<apeiros>
the imaginary part is an axis
<apeiros>
so of course it has order
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<MrDoctor>
Any integral domain do be ordered has to satisfy that if x > 0, and y > 0, then xy > 0.
<MrDoctor>
C does not satisfy that.
<apeiros>
correct, the complex number *as a whole* has no sign
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<apeiros>
so saying it's positive or negative both is not a correct statement
<apeiros>
only its individual parts have a sign
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<MrDoctor>
But I am now reading this paper for my own research work, and it mentions classes of polynomials over the complex plane which has all coefficients as non-negative.
<MrDoctor>
And it does not mention if the coefficients are from C or R.
<apeiros>
MrDoctor: I think you're in the wrong channel
<apeiros>
exadeci: re "calls an undefined method" - how do you figure it is undefined?
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<apeiros>
`rescue Exception => e` is poor code, though. never rescue Exception.
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<exadeci>
apeiros: the granule.send("#{value}=", line_value) seems to be looking for a setter but the setter doesn't exist and there is no method_missing
<canton7>
(unless you're at the very top level of your application, and want to log it then exit)
<servidorv>
Has anyone use the 'pushmeup' gem to send apns push notifications??
<apeiros>
exadeci: that's not answering my question
<apeiros>
I asked how you figure that the method is not defined
<apeiros>
your answer seems to be "I visually inspected the code and didn't see the method definition"
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<apeiros>
if that's it, then your question is ill-phrased. it's not "it calls an undefined method", but "it calls a method for which I can't find the definition"
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<apeiros>
and you can find the definition of the method by using granule.method("#{value}=").source_location
<exadeci>
apeiros: When I choose the correct xlsx and I try to upload it I get "undefined method "handbook_id=" for Granule...."
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<apeiros>
exadeci: then I'm curious about your phrasing of "how could it work" - because obviously it doesn't work?
<servidorv>
anyone ??
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<apeiros>
servidorv: seems anyone isn't in the channel.
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<canton7>
exadeci, well, I can see a method definition for handbook_id= ...
<gaussblurinc1>
if method doesn't have parameters and I send him a parameter by .send(name, object), will it fall?
<canton7>
gaussblurinc1, try it and see
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<servidorv>
@apeiros
<canton7>
or wait, that might only work if the backing table has that field
<servidorv>
thanks
<apeiros>
exadeci: also, AR::Base models absolutely do have method_missing defined.
<exadeci>
apeiros: a default behaviour ?
<gaussblurinc1>
canton7: so, will it work or not?
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<apeiros>
exadeci: I'm sorry. I think I'm not in the mood to guess what you mean to say and what's going on.
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<exadeci>
apeiros: Sorry if I'm unclear english is not my first language, I upload a xlsx and it should parse every line and add it to a table in the database. But when I test it I get undefined method "name of the colum=" for Granule.
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<exadeci>
this line: granule.send("#{value}=", line_value) calls setters defined in the model, but what does it do if the setter is not explicitly defied ?
<exadeci>
defined*
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<apeiros>
exadeci: AR models provide accessors to all columns of the table they represent
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<apeiros>
this is AR basics. you should familiarize yourself with those.
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<exadeci>
apeiros: so this send should work even without a method explicitly defined in the model ?
<exadeci>
but it shows undefined method `hanbook_id=' for #<Granule:0x007ff794facb28> -_-
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<apeiros>
hanbook?
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<apeiros>
you sure this shouldn't be handbook?
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<apeiros>
and that's why we copy & paste errors. we don't make up our own messages…
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<wasamasa>
lol
<wasamasa>
you don't invent your own memory addresses?
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<exadeci>
apeiros: Thank you can't believe it ... he makes the xlsx for a year now and he had to make a mistake on this one, well sure didn't see that small typo, thanks again
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<solars>
hey, does anyone know a fix for the extremely slow vim syntax hilighting for ruby? I found some threads but nothing was working really
<Cat_1>
Are you doing it over a ssh shell or locally?
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<Cat_1>
are you using :syntax on or are you using a different plugin/application?
<solars>
locally
<solars>
syntax on
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<solars>
rails.vim and the usual plugins
<Cat_1>
I got nothing :)
<Cat_1>
Try verifying your terminal type(tty1, etc)
<solars>
its not about the terminal, it's ruby hilighting
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<solars>
there are many threads about this problem..
<Cat_1>
I've never had a problem with that using vim
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<sevenseacat>
ooh 2.1.5
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<rpag_>
releases are flying out
<jhass>
mmh, I wonder if we can claim now that 1.8.7 has known vulnerabilities
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<shevy>
well
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<shevy>
it has right?
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<sevenseacat>
when will 2.2 be outtttt
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<kesroesweyth>
I just installed ruby 1.9.3p484 and the sass 3.4.7 gem and when I run it, it throws an error about an undefined method. I installed this same thing on another server with the same OS and updates and am not having an issue. Here is the error: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=b5xH4y78
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<dyu>
I'm using paypal-sdk-rest v0.7.2. i've got a BigDecimal that i want to pass as a string. i've tried using .to_s. printing out the hash gives me '50.0'. comparing it with a literal '50.0' evaluates to true. but if i pass the converted variable to paypal, it fails. if i pass a literal '50.0' it accepts it
<asdlkdsajsda>
It's like it run tests wether or not it specified
<asdlkdsajsda>
sort of like a dependency on server
<pontiki>
that makes no sense to me...
<jhass>
--trace output might still be of interest
<asdlkdsajsda>
that's why I'm here... I run out of thinks to think about
<asdlkdsajsda>
jhass: I did it and updated the gist
<pontiki>
jhass: it's in the gist
<jhass>
(oh I didn't scroll far enough, sorry)
<jhass>
maybe server is already defined and you just augment it?
<asdlkdsajsda>
rofl
<asdlkdsajsda>
got it
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<asdlkdsajsda>
In my app configuration I had a require 'rails/test_help' and it must do something with Rake::TestTask or something
<asdlkdsajsda>
rails sometimes...
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<pontiki>
an aside, in the server task, why do you invoke Rack::Server instead of Rails::Server?
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<asdlkdsajsda>
pontiki: because Rails::Server forces the creation of log/ folder and I don't want it. And besides the tmp directory(which I don't need for this), it's an empty wrapper
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<asdlkdsajsda>
It's just a test environment, don't need a full fledged rails application.
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<pontiki>
gotcha
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<asdlkdsajsda>
Finally! Well thanks for your helps folks!
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<unshadow>
What is more "ruby" and why, ".each" or "for a in b" ?
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<apeiros>
.each has been established as more idiomatic ruby
<apeiros>
why: because blocks
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<havenwood>
hellooo 2.1.5
<apeiros>
just yesterday I installed 2.1.4
<apeiros>
щ(ﾟдﾟщ)
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<havenwood>
kinda glad they released it cause it landed the removal of apple-gcc4.2 from cc candidates
<unshadow>
apeiros: thanks :)
<havenwood>
which was causing bugs with folk who had that installed
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<j2p2>
scenario: you have to initialize multiple blank arrays - which do you pick?
<j2p2>
a, b = [], []
<j2p2>
or a = b = []
<godd2>
Welp, time to move to .Net now that it's open source. So long sucaks!
<apeiros>
j2p2: also, I don't use either. I write 2 lines.
<j2p2>
oooh gotcha
<j2p2>
so they get tied to the same object
<havenwood>
godd2: reviving IronRuby? ;P
<apeiros>
j2p2: yes, you assign the same object to both
<j2p2>
thanks
<havenwood>
godd2: i'm curious if this'll bring any life to the .net clojure
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<apeiros>
havenwood: or revive iron-ruby
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<havenwood>
apeiros: indeed
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<apeiros>
it certainly seems like microsoft understood that it can't sustain living/acting isolated
<apeiros>
but I'm wary. companies ain't people.
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<txdv>
c# is open source now, nenenenene
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<adac>
In a README.rdoc, how can include an image with a local path?
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<EminenceHC>
I have a block that iterates through multiple records and displays results. I want to do something like a "while" clause to only do a calculation if a certain record's date changes. For instance I am adding i + 1 but I only want to run i + 1 if the date changes. Any suggestions? https://gist.github.com/EminenceHC/310ccc8c2d96596a4035
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<jhass>
.group_by(&:date) in your controller
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<godd2>
EminenceHC You'll have better luck asking your question in #rubyonrails
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<jhass>
oh
<jhass>
EminenceHC: Please do not crosspost without at least telling so. Experience shows that people don't bother to inform the other channels of provided solutions, therefore it is considered rude.
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<EminenceHC>
^^ This was cross posted.
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<DaniG2k>
guys how do I remove old gems for ruby 2.1.4 ?
<DaniG2k>
I just installed 2.1.5
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<DaniG2k>
i always forget how to do this so i just end up removeing the .rvm/gems/2.1.4 directory
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<havenwood>
DaniG2k: rvm migrate 2.1.4 2.1.5
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<havenwood>
DaniG2k: that'd ^ copy the gems over then remove them
<unshadow>
How do I implamnet the "loading bar" slash while stuff runs in thhe background, I want it to move with the text like "working |/-\|-
<havenwood>
DaniG2k: #rvm is helpful for RVM questions
<havenwood>
unshadow: loading bar?
<DaniG2k>
thanks
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<unshadow>
havenwood: more like circling slash... it looks like an animation, RVM has it while loading stuff
<unshadow>
on the console
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<havenwood>
unshadow: Try this in irb/pry: '-\|/'.each_char.cycle { |char| print char; sleep 0.5; print "\r" }
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<havenwood>
unshadow: If you're curious about RVM's shell implementation just ask in
<havenwood>
#rvm
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<unshadow>
nice ! this is want I wanted, thanks !
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<olivier_bK>
there is something i dont understand
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<olivier_bK>
i added this in my crontab * * * * * bash -lc /root/script/stream/DownTorrent.rb
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<olivier_bK>
in my log i can see CROND[28030]: (root) CMD (bash -lc /root/script/stream/DownTorrent.rb)
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<olivier_bK>
but he do nothing
<olivier_bK>
oh and i use rvm setup cron for export variable
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<havenwood>
olivier_bK: i'm on a call but #rvm might be a good place to also ask
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<shevy>
they should have done this a long time ago
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<wasamasa>
they were forced to now
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<shevy>
yeah wasamasa
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<shevy>
history always punishes the late arrivers
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<toretore>
unless you're late to auschwitz
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<otherj>
toretore, too soon
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<toretore>
that would be more of a problem, yes
<shevy>
in the market environment toretore
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<toretore>
oh, the *market environment* !
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<shevy>
yeah
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<shevy>
microsoft's model is to try and sell software
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<shevy>
many components which are freely available
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<shevy>
like google docs
<shevy>
even though I don't like it
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<shevy>
though when it is available online, that is kinda cool. libreoffice I have only available locally
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<ddv>
nice stroy br0
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<ddv>
story*
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<shevy>
yeah
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<louism2wash>
Hey guys, can I think of the object class as a global namespace since that is where all the class references reside and virtually everything in ruby inherits from object?
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<toretore>
louism2wash: yes
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<louism2wash>
toretore: cool, thanks
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<eam>
but wasn't sure how to create 1 out of the remainder (and $-W is the key)
<eam>
yeah
<eam>
I didn't know about the $- vars
<eam>
then the rest, just use the ternary operators to hide the rest of the characters
<apeiros>
I don't think you missed anything - unless you use -enp much
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<slide>
Do ruby apps have a compiled cache? I'm trying to modify a single file but it doesn't seem to be doing anything and I have 0 experience in ruby
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<apeiros>
slide: no
<eam>
slide: no, but if it's a continually running process you may need to restart it
<slide>
hrm yea I did restart it
<slide>
i even put some random text in there to try to throw an error heh
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<slide>
hrm it is using rails I think, would it have a cache?
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<apeiros>
the code does not, no
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<yeukhon>
hi. quick question about rbenv, coming from python, does creating a new "env" using rbenv requires a separate build of ruby, unlike python virtualenv which you can lnk against an existing binary? tutorials im reading seem to suggest building a ruby all the time. thanks
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<shevy>
oh man
<shevy>
havenwood knows way too much
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<havenwood>
shevy: nuh uh, i know just right
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<omosoj>
havenwood, did you start with ruby or migrate to it?
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<omosoj>
that q^ is directed at anyone really
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<havenwood>
omosoj: i started with batch
<havenwood>
and bash
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<havenwood>
omosoj: what did you start with?
<omosoj>
havenwood, i guess ruby. (i'm relatively new) i knew some other things like html/css, some pascal from a long time ago, and basic programming, but ruby was the first lang i used to make scripts and actually do things
<powersurge>
PHP -> javascript -> python -> and now ruby. hoping to be able to do all ruby/python in the future
<havenwood>
<3 Ruby
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<powersurge>
I've only been doing ruby for a couple of weeks professionally
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<powersurge>
it seems to be going well though
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<omosoj>
i'm getting to the skill level where i'm actually able to branch out and experiment with other languages. trying to figure out my fit
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<powersurge>
good call
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<omosoj>
havenwood, osrc.dfm.io is cool :)
<powersurge>
ruby/php/python/etc are all about the same in capability, it mostly boils down to what fits your head
<agent_white>
Just try 'em all out? Thankfully majority of languages are free.
<havenwood>
nice open source languages, like... F# :O
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<omosoj>
for whatever reason this channel is 1000x friendlier than other language channels. it's remarkable.
<omosoj>
going to other channels is like entering enemy territory
<shevy>
omosoj well we have havenwood
<havenwood>
omosoj: MINASWAN as they say.
<agent_white>
omosoj: "Matz is nice so we are nice." :)
<agent_white>
^^
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<soahccc>
I guess ruby just makes you happy... I get angry when looking at PHP or something curly-brace-semicolon-alike
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<omosoj>
i wanted to play around with treat, so i was thinking of creating an irc bot to accompany me to other channels and act as a friendliness police officer. lol
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<omosoj>
but i have this rails api internship and am dedicating all my time to learning it.
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<omosoj>
was thinking about learning js and objectivec though. objc might be interesting at least b/c it's similar to c and i guess it's good to know that
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<zenspider>
no unnecessary parens/punctuation/syntax
<mostlybadfly>
oh i see
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<mostlybadfly>
is that preferable or just some people like to do it?
<ecstaticpessimst>
havenwood, the problem is I'm sending these values over serial to a device and if I use .to_s(16) it sends a string instead of the value
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<mostlybadfly>
i think the hexadecimal value is always a string
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<mostlybadfly>
do you mean you need 0x7e ?
<ecstaticpessimst>
mostlybadfly, yes
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<apeiros__>
ecstaticpessimst: you're confusing representation and value
<shevy>
how can you tell him that it is already over :)
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<atmosx>
havenwood: is this Steve Klabnik guy any good!?
<atmosx>
the name rings a bell but can't tell where from
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<shevy>
We're building "Hypermedia APIs" now. Such is life.
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<shevy>
wtf is an hypermedia API
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<Eiam>
probably somethign related to hypertext right? =0
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<Eiam>
HMTP
<Eiam>
HyperMedia Transfer Protocol
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<shevy>
man
<havenwood>
atmosx: I like what he has to say. APIs and philosophy and stuff are interesting. He's been doing Rust docs for Rubyists lately I think.
<shevy>
for a moment I again confused you with eam Eiam
<powersurge>
SOAP is an RPC protocol atmosx
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<atmosx>
stateless protocol?
<Eiam>
shevy: hes the smarter one
<powersurge>
so there's a couple of rpc protocols, of varying complexity
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<atmosx>
http is stateless I missed that
<powersurge>
xml-rpc split off of soap-rpc because the people doing xml-rpc thought soap was becoming too complex
<powersurge>
you're basically sending along function arguments which then get called on the server and the results get sent back in xml form which is then deserialized and made into native types
<atmosx>
havenwood: I see
<shevy>
Eiam but he uses perl!
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<Eiam>
shevy: we all have our faults.
<powersurge>
xml does it in xml, soap does it in xml, json-rpc does it in json
<havenwood>
atmosx: like me, in LA
<powersurge>
REST isn't truly an RPC, imo, because unlike the other stuff, it doesn't really map 1:1 with a function on the server
<ecstaticpessimst>
Alright I think I figured out the problem, I need to convert an ascii number to the character
<atmosx>
powersurge: like dRB?
<powersurge>
I'm actually not familiar with dRB
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<Eiam>
powersurge: that seems.. odd..
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<atmosx>
powersurge: the oo-concept seems similar to dRB: hat is, the programmer writes essentially the same code whether the subroutine is local to the executing program, or remote. When the software in question uses object-oriented principles, RPC is called remote invocation or remote method invocation.
<Eiam>
powersurge: it takes ruby and runs it remotely ;p
<powersurge>
yea, so in most RPC protocols the remote server is just exposing some functions to be run over the network
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<powersurge>
but most RPC protocols are a huge pain in the butt to work with
<atmosx>
powersurge: dRuby allows methods to be called in one Ruby process upon a Ruby object located in another Ruby process, even on another machine. References to objects can be passed between processes. Method arguments and return values are dumped and loaded in marshalled format. All of this is done transparently to both the caller of the remote method and the object that it is called upon.
<powersurge>
soap especially because of its wsdl file, which defines everything a particular soap api can do
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<powersurge>
but yea, so REST is kind of an alternative to that
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<powersurge>
rather than calling functions and getting results, you're mostly dealing with just data dumps
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<zenspider>
a horribly cludgy alternative to that
<powersurge>
when you visit an html website you are *already* using rest, really
<atmosx>
powersurge: dRB is not a pain actually. I wrote a small application using it, it was a pain (for me) to figure it out... But eventually, after I did was the easiest way to communicate back and forth, the only thing that bothered me was that I needed 2 TCP open ports IIRC.
<zenspider>
drb is soo elegant in comparison
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<atmosx>
zenspider: really?
<powersurge>
I can't really comment on drb, I'm afraid
<powersurge>
but to answer the question for rest
<atmosx>
So Rails is RESTfull becuase it has this CRUD thing implemented right?
<zenspider>
really what?
<atmosx>
zenspider: drb is more elegant slution that REST
<powersurge>
rest revolves around the concept of resources, which you can mostly think of as nouns, and http methods, which you can mostly think of verbs
<mostlybadfly>
ecstaticpessimst: was that suggestion above any good?
<atmosx>
powersurge: this nouns/verbs thing doesn't make sense to me.
<mostlybadfly>
it did both 126 and 255
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<powersurge>
so you can GET a resource, POST to the resource's root to create a new resource, PATCH to make updates, PUT to totally replace a resource, and DELETE to, well, delete the resource
<gr33n7007h>
>> puts 255.chr
<powersurge>
so imagine you have a /books resource atmosx
<zenspider>
yes, but you only get ~5 verbs. that _sucks_
<atmosx>
powersurge: I see.. okay but the thing that I only know THIS WAY of creating apps :-/
<powersurge>
if you GET /books it likely will give you all of the books, and you can specify if you want it in various formats
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<atmosx>
powersurge: so what's the alternative then?!
<powersurge>
oh, I was just explaining what rest *is*
<powersurge>
which I thought was the question
<powersurge>
so what are you curious about? alternate ways to build web apps?
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<atmosx>
powersurge: I got, unknowingly I write my Sinatra apps using the same concept... I got it now. But what people were using before restull then?
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<powersurge>
well in a way web sites have always used rest, it's built directly into http
<powersurge>
a browser uses GET to retrieve html pages, for example
<atmosx>
powersurge: yes, RPC is not for web apps if I get this right, it's like dRB mostly for any apps (could be used for web-apps too come to think of it).
<powersurge>
and it will also use "post" to submit forms
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<powersurge>
it really depends
<atmosx>
powersurge: true..
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<powersurge>
RPC and REST are ways to provide APIs
<graft>
hey, what's the difference between Array#index and Enumerable#find_index?
<powersurge>
and neither are really in the context of web apps, although a web app may consume them
<powersurge>
REST is nice because it's very simple to work with, with very little overhead
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<powersurge>
if you have a lib that speaks http, you also ahve one that can consume restful resources
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<powersurge>
SOAP requires a dedicated lib, as does XML-RPC, JSON-RPC, etc, etc
<ecstaticpessimst>
mostlybadfly, works well I just needed to alter it to sprintf("%#c", 126)
<gr33n7007h>
32 to 126 are ascii prinable characters 128 to 255 extended ascii characters
<powersurge>
of course, you get more structure with the other types of APIs, and it feels more like you're executing a command locally
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<lilsheep>
anyoen know how to poll for keyboard input OR generate some sort of itnerrupt from one that calls a method [ specifically when one presses enter ]
<Guest46041>
Hello. I have the following problems, I pipe a script to bash which in turn executes an interactive ruby script. However bash does not wait for the user input for the ruby script. If I execute the ruby script directly it works absolutely fine. How can I tell bash to wait for input in the ruby script?
<atmosx>
powersurge: spork uses dRuby to run tests faster
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<powersurge>
mmm
<powersurge>
I getcha
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<ecstaticpessimst>
Guest46041 what does the command with the pipe in it look like?
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