apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Ruby 2.1.5; 2.0.0-p598; 1.9.3-p551: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || this channel is logged at http://irclog.whitequark.org, other public logging is prohibited
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<diegoviola> hello world
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<pipework> This is a planetoid.
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<elemenopy> hmmm this isn't working the way i would expect it to. i want to fire all threads at once https://gist.github.com/anonymous/edb0043b270d5afc8716 why is it not firing all threads at the same time?
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<volty> first of all, urls = [...]; urls.map { |url| Thread.new(do_it(url)) }.each(&:join)
<pipework> Why make all the threads first and then call join?
<volty> then def do_it(url); puts "started #{url}"; scrape... ; end; (to make sure)
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<gr33n7007h> volty, Doesn't Thread.new take a block?
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<volty> gr33n7007h: never mind, was just a hint
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<gr33n7007h> ah, ok
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<volty> pipework too, he wants it that way, don't know about reasons
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<volty> the only thing I feel sure, in this case, is that having t# variables in a language that offers enumerables is very very weird :)
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<gr33n7007h> electrical, def sqr(n); puts n**2; end; (1..5).map {|i| Thread.new { sqr(i) }}.each(&:join)
<pipework> t#?
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<volty> t1, t2 ...
<pipework> use words
<volty> i prefer meanings :)
<pipework> Whatever.
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<elemenopy> ok guys im confused haha so do we do the volty way?
<pipework> elemenopy: I didn't catch what you were doing.
<pipework> He doesn't seem to be too good at expressing himself for humans though, so it's definitely up to you.
<volty> ahahah
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<elemenopy> pipework, so im trying to setup a bunch of threads and then run them all at the same time using this https://gist.github.com/anonymous/edb0043b270d5afc8716
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<elemenopy> but that does not run them all at the same time tho
<pipework> elemenopy: I'd suggest investigating whether your method that you're calling is going to lock the vm.
<pipework> elemenopy: What ruby are you using?
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<elemenopy> pipework, ruby 2.0.0p594 (2014-10-27 revision 48167) [x86_64-linux]
<gr33n7007h> lock = Mutex.new; def sqr(n); puts n**2; end; (1..5).map {|i| Thread.new { lock.synchronize {sqr(i) } } }.each(&:join)
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<benzrf> <3 Fibur
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<pipework> elemenopy: Ah, so the problem is that the ruby VM has a mutex around it. You can't run more than 1 thing executing in the ruby VM at once.
<pipework> So besides your terrible method naming, we'd need to know how that method is implemented.
<pipework> benzrf: I trolled my coworkers with that recenrly.
<pipework> I was thinking of putting together a whole talk about 1.8 and 1.9 with fibers vs fiburs :d
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<pipework> Then close with, "Here's the source for Fibur"
<elemenopy> pipework, here is the code i am running now in complete form https://gist.github.com/anonymous/17f8ce0e86415c296819
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<elemenopy> i just run ruby 'GetURLS.rb' from command line
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<pipework> elemenopy: Yeah that's not going to run in parallel.
<pipework> It's quite clearly going to require the ruby VM for each of the threads.
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<elemenopy> pipework, ok so i should search something like 'ruby VM thread' or something like that in google?
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<pipework> elemenopy: Look up Ruby GVL
<elemenopy> pipework, ok will do
<volty> first of all put all those urls in lists (or, better, single list)
<pipework> elemenopy: You can also use a better ruby. I would suggest JRuby.
<pipework> volty: It won't really matter, though code cleanliness isn't very high in this script.
<volty> clean, first of all
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<volty> what I say about lists applies to many other probs, and since he is learning ...
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<volty> and do not bother me with your tribal-style polemics
<pipework> Stop wasting people's time.
<pipework> all the code cleanliness in the world won't make his code run like he wants it to on cruby.
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<volty> one aspect does not exclude the other
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<pipework> Solve problems pragmatically, not dogmatically.
<volty> the world should be collaborative, and not confrontational
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<volty> nothing's more pragmatic than putting those urls in a list --- whatever way you deal with them later
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<pipework> Anyways, elemenopy, what I would suggest besides not bothering with volty's advice, is to either use JRuby and modifying your code to work on that if you need, or you'll want to consider other methods of achieving parallelism.
<pipework> The code you wrote isn't up to the ruby community standards, but it doesn't really matter right now.
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<elemenopy> pipework, ok i will research JRuby ty again!
<pipework> elemenopy: Cheers!
<volty> a list is a kind of mental parallelism, you treat in parallel (semantically) with iterators instead of sequentially naming variables
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<pipework> No one cares
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<volty> yap, this one would be a good example to illustrate the logic & soul of small coin teaching
<pipework> That's enough of that rubbish.
<volty> shame
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<volty> >> "address"
<eval-in__> volty => "address" (https://eval.in/221104)
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<neredsenvy> I'm a bit new Ruby coming from ek (PHP) and yay (Java). I'm reading the docs and from docs I have gathered that self. (defines static method) so I assume this is also how you would access a static variable no ?
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<jhass> neredsenvy: there's no such thing as static variables, the closest thing are @@class_variables
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<neredsenvy> I have a variable declared :name if I have an instance of my object and I call object.method as in my example above it should change the value of the attribute of this instance
<neredsenvy> Hm
<neredsenvy> jhass Can you look at my link and explain to me what's happening ?
<jhass> I'm rather surprised you don't get a NoMethodError on that
<jhass> oh, ActiveRecord, are you actually learning Rails?
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<pipework> jhass: How are class variables remotely similar to the idea of static variables?
<pipework> I'd think frozen objects assigned to constants are closer.
<jhass> they live in a class, I think that's pretty close to Java static variables
<jhass> do you think about constant variables maybe?
<pipework> jhass: But if the object hierarchy is gc'd...
<jhass> neredsenvy: I can't find a string method in the Rails API either
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<jhass> so not sure why that doesn't NoMethodError in the first place for you
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<jhass> pipework: I don't quite follow what this has to do with GC
<volty> can smb try that - to make sure it doesn't depend on my buildings here ?
<neredsenvy> I'm guessing it's due to rails
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<pipework> jhass: Egh, just that it's not really there in ruby at all, I guess.
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<jhass> neredsenvy: http://api.rubyonrails.org/ can't find it there
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<jhass> neredsenvy: anyway, to answer your quesiton
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<jhass> foo = "bar" _always_ creates a local variable
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<jhass> no matter if a self has a method named foo or foo=
<neredsenvy> hm
<volty> nothing to do with gc, just exercising his pedantic quibbling :)
<neredsenvy> ill have to go re read the previous topic on classes
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<jhass> neredsenvy: if you want to learn plain ruby first, try to do it outside rails ;)
<volty> nobody with qt - to make sure that coupling with mechanize does not segfault (url above)?
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<volty> please
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<jhass> bah
<jhass> neredsenvy: Please do not crosspost without at least telling so. Experience shows that people don't bother to inform the other channels of provided solutions, therefore it is considered rude.
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<volty> ops, it's nokogiri (required by mechanize)
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<jhass> are you on 1.4? 1.3 has a nasty segfault when parsing invalid html from an IO
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<volty> jhass: don't know, how do I get version ?
<jhass> Nokogiri::VERSION should have it
<volty> "1.6.4.1"
<jhass> okay, then you might've found a new one :P
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<volty> I am thinking if it is a segfault due to wrong building (but here everything was done in a clean way) or name/method clashing (during Qt's after on-exit cleanup)
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<volty> s/thinking/wondering/
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<volty> nice thing (at least for this stage) is that everything is ok till the end/exit of the application
<elemenopy> pipework, i was googling a bit and stumbled across this for a possible solution? i know you said to use JRUBY but i came across this and was wondering if you approve of something like this in place of JRUBY https://blog.engineyard.com/2013/ruby-concurrency
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<pipework> elemenopy: I don't think it would help.
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<elemenopy> pipework, ok im glad i checked because i read teh whole thing and was about to start copy pasta
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<pipework> elemenopy: Try installing jruby (I use chruby and ruby-install) and running your ruby program with jruby.
<elemenopy> oh are you serious? that's it?
<elemenopy> i thought i had to like rewrite it, that's why i was lurking
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<elemenopy> pipework, im on it
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<pipework> elemenopy: It might be alright, you might need to do a little bit of swapping out.
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<pipework> Like if you're using activerecord (through rails or not), you might have to switch your adapter to something from jruby.
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<elemenopy> i use 'sequel' gem
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<pipework> elemenopy: You might need to see if you can use that on jruby or what you'll have to do.
<elemenopy> pipework, ok ok i c i c
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<elemenopy> pipework, first thing that broke was the gems i was using. 'nokogiri' LoadError: no such file to load
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<pipework> elemenopy: Are you using a Gemfile?
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<elemenopy> pipework, yea i am using nokogiri and other gems like 'sequel' and 'json'
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<pipework> elemenopy: Ah so you do have a Gemfile?
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<elemenopy> pipework, not really i just have two files. one file is a main file and it calls a class file
<pipework> elemenopy: Ah so since you aren't, you'll need to install those gems yourself.
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<elemenopy> pipework, ok so what can it mean if i have no issues when just running 'ruby GetURLS.rb'. do i have to like 'jruby gem install xxxxx' then under jruby?
<pipework> elemenopy: You will have to install the gems under jruby.
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<elemenopy> pipework, ah hah! ok lets try that brb
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<pipework> Depending on how you installed jruby, you'll have different ways to install the gems. I'd just suggest `jruby -S gem install $gem`
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<elemenopy> pipework, ok yea something is def happening now
<pipework> elemenopy: 'something' is definitely a thing.
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<elemenopy> pipework, i think this is the error now that you were mentioning earlier about the tweaking, we get this error now after i corrected the more obvious errors from before using the jruby -S command. Sequel::AdapterNotFound: LoadError: no such file to load -- mysql
<pipework> elemenopy: So, you'll want to configure sequel to use an odbc adapter for mysql.
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<elemenopy> pipework, ok ok ok , so i've got it running again after some tweaking and stuff.... but alas it is not running all the threads at once :(
<pipework> elemenopy: How weird. Let's see, gist your latest program.
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<elemenopy> ok
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<pipework> elemenopy: Why are you looping?
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<elemenopy> pipework, i want it to keep running forever :)
<elemenopy> pipework, i want it to cycle back around when the thread finishes
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<pipework> elemenopy: How are you running the file? I'd suggest to switch the top line to /usr/bin/env ruby
<elemenopy> right now i just run it inside of 'screen' and let it sit for a while during testing phase
<elemenopy> oops, sorry
<elemenopy> pipework, right now i just run it inside of 'screen' and let it sit for a while during testing phase
<pipework> elemenopy: Let's remove the loop and try to get it to run in parallel.
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<elemenopy> pipework, ok lets do it
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<elemenopy> pipework, ok i just commented out the loop only , testing now
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<pipework> elemenopy: Well, you'll want to print some numbers in the threads or something.
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<elemenopy> i am it's running and i can tell it's not hitting the "garena" threads
<elemenopy> pipework, the garena threads are at the bottom area and it's not printing out those threads
<elemenopy> pipework, let me try to make it do less work and see if the garena threads eventually actually fire off
<zacts> hm.. I'm wondering if you guys can help me figure out a good path to learning ruby well.
<zacts> I've seen the links on http://ruby-lang.org/
<zacts> and I'm going to do the rubymonk and ruby koan tutorials
<zacts> what should I read after that? books?
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<agent_white> zacts: POODR (Practical Object Oriented Design in Ruby
<agent_white> A great book by Sandy Metz
<agent_white> I would definitely recommend it.
<pipework> elemenopy: Look at your gist again.
<pontiki> some notes on learning ruby programming: http://blog.tamouse.org/pages/learning/
<zacts> ok, should I have read the pragmatic press programming ruby before that one, or will my online tutorials be enough to understand Metz's book?
<pipework> zacts: I think you need to read the first half of Metaprogramming Ruby
<pipework> It explains the a lot of ruby and how the object model works.
<zacts> pontiki: ah ok, thanks for the link
<pontiki> i wouldn't hand that to a newbie, pipework
<pontiki> but soon
<zacts> pipework: the first half of the metaprogramming ruby monk tutorial?
<pipework> pontiki: I would.
<pipework> The first half has nothing to do with metaprogramming.
<pontiki> before they knew the syntax?
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<elemenopy> pipework, ok let me change this 1 sec my finger is hurt :)
<pipework> It's all about object model and understanding how ruby thinks and looks things up.
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<pipework> zacts: No, the book. Have you learned any other programming languages before?
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<agent_white> zacts: You shouldbe fine with the book! It uses great, simple examples of what to and what not to do. In general it has helped my understanding of OOP as a whole.
<volty> go and digs the bits of the computer -- to "know how the computer thinks "
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<volty> programming is about abstraction on data transformations
<volty> metaprogramming is difficult, especially for beginner
<volty> s
<pontiki> i truly loved metaprogramming in ruby, v.1, have not read v.2 yet, but i expect it to be equally wonderful
<zacts> pipework: I know a bit of Perl
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<zacts> but not much no.
<pontiki> even if you never expect to do metaprogramming, pipework is *absolutely* correct, the book is fantastic at explaining the ruby object model
<zacts> I have much to learn, but I use vim
<volty> those who advice those things to beginners just want to pose «I am so smart, try get me!»
<pipework> zacts: I'd suggest reading through Learn to Program.
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<zacts> pipework: I'm almost done with it
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<pipework> zacts: Ah good. The next important book for just ruby essentials before metaprogramming ruby is called the black book. It's here: http://www.manning.com/black2/
<volty> nobody's born learned, get the clue and stop posing
<agent_white> "I have much to learn, but I use vim" -- /me pictures person with rockets attached to all ligaments
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<pipework> volty: Stop being butthurt because you gave people bullshit advice. Everyone does it when they start learning how to help people, I've moved on from it and so should you
<pontiki> and an ignore is locked
<pipework> agent_white: Haha.
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<zacts> pipework: ah ok, so after learn to program, then do: black book -> metaprogramming ruby?
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<zacts> so is the pragmatic programming ruby more of a reference book?
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<pipework> zacts: That's what I'd suggest.
<zacts> ok cool
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<pipework> zacts: Yeah the pickaxe, as it's called, is a good book to flip through but it's more of a reference book.
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<elemenopy> pipework, omg
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<volty> putting urls in an array (instead of handling them with t1, t2, t3 ... ) isn't bullshit advice. It's essential, teacher of my boots
<pontiki> i read through the first version, back in the day. what a slog.
<elemenopy> pipework, how could i not see this? the issue the order in which i am calling join
<elemenopy> moving all thread declarations above the initial join fixes the issue
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<pipework> volty: It had nothing to do with his problem. Stop solving problems that aren't related to the issue.
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<pontiki> zacts: have you got the latest version of programming ruby?
<elemenopy> pipework, moving all the thread.new to be together , and calling all the joins at the end fixes it :)
<volty> it was an advice, dumby, i didn't state that it was a solution
<pipework> elemenopy: :D
<zacts> yeah I have programming ruby 4th edition
<pontiki> awesome :)
<elemenopy> pipework, dude that is nuts
<elemenopy> pipework, but it actually makes sense
<pipework> elemenopy: Yeah, I thought it was where you were calling join.
<zacts> pipework: so which edition of metaprogramming ruby should I get?
<pipework> The work was done in the thread already, but the joins were being called one after another.
<pipework> zacts: The latest is good.
<pontiki> zacts: the black book is "The Well-Grounded Rubyist" by David Black -- quite good, if not essential, even
<zacts> ok cool
<elemenopy> pipework, ruby was doing exactly what i was asking it to, but i was asking incorrectly :)
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<pipework> elemenopy: Fun stuff, innit?
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<elemenopy> pipework, fml haha well i think i learned a very valuable lesson for the night
<elemenopy> pipework, and your each method is also better
<pipework> elemenopy: There's more nice things that can be done, but for something small and one-off like this, it's mostly mental masturbation.
<pipework> I like pretty code.
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<pontiki> i had his earlier book when i started in on ruby and rails "Ruby for Rails" -- best book ever, for the time
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<volty> @ISSUECOP <pipework> volty: It had nothing to do with his problem. Stop solving problems that aren't related to the issue.
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<volty> tell me how you determine what is an issue
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<pipework> Here's where I remind people not to feed trolls.
<sevenseacat> lol issue cop
<sevenseacat> oh shit
<volty> pimply man, stop barking at me
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<volty> i just gave an advice that imo was a good one
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<volty> it was only you that started to bark at me
<pipework> Crap, I linked him to black2, not black3.... http://www.manning.com/black3/
<Radar> !popcorn
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<pipework> Radar: Lol, someone allowed your bot in here? :D
<Radar> pipework: It seems that way
<volty> mine your business, explain what you whatever think is best, and leave the others tell theirs
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<sevenseacat> we try not to use it too much in here.
* pipework becomes a prospector to mine his business
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<pontiki> mine your own bidness
<Radar> volty: why so aggressive?
<Radar> Did pipework kill your dog?
<volty> ahah
<pipework> Radar: He told someone that the way to acheive concurrency in ruby is to use arrays.
<Radar> oh I see.
<sevenseacat> o.O
<pipework> The code looked like this though: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9cec1c959a7454905a18
<gr33n7007h> ./admin.rb:85: syntax error, unexpected keyword_end, expecting end-of-input I can't find no frikken end #=> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/41bc19c70c2f6abb6d53
<volty> that one in real life can only hide his pimples
<pipework> The problem was that they weren't calling join in the right place and that they weren't using a ruby that can take advantage of concurrency, but volty thought the issue had to do with code cleanliness.
<volty> do not lie
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<Radar> pipework: stop feeding the trolls plzkthx
<sevenseacat> :D
<pipework> Radar: You're late.
<volty> i just said that it is better to put those urls in an array
<pipework> [18:52:27] <pipework> Here's where I remind people not to feed trolls.
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<Radar> oops
<pipework> Anyways the chum was helped and enlightened for it.
<Radar> Grand.
<pipework> innit
<gr33n7007h> Radar, A frikken do, you know how long i've been looking at that, nice one
<volty> do not go round, fakeman, the mine was only about better putting those urls in an array -- a good advice for a beginner, imo
<Radar> gr33n7007h: my paypal is radarlistener@gmail.com just FYI
<pontiki> :D
<pontiki> tip jar
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<gr33n7007h> sweet, transfering money now :)
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<Radar> thanks :D
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<pontiki> anyone use airpair?
<Radar> pontiki: yes
<Radar> I like it
<pipework> pontiki: nope, but I've looked at it.
<pipework> I pair with people for free on open source projects if scheduling allows.
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<pontiki> as a mentor?
<pipework> Not sure I'd want to put that out just onto the general internet for any random though.
<sevenseacat> i dont pair with people because they would make fun of me D:
<pipework> pontiki: As a pair. I learn as often as I impart knowledge.
<pipework> sevenseacat: funny accent!
<pontiki> ah, cool
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<Radar> pontiki: yes, as a mentor
<volty> he's looking after meta-retarded, ahah
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<volty> to teach
<pontiki> hum
<pipework> I don't actually approach pairing as a mentor mentee thing, even if I'm the more knowledgable one about the subject.
<sevenseacat> pipework: too right, mate.
<Radar> STRUTH
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<sevenseacat> i was going to say 'too right cobber' but thought that was a bit *too* ocker.
<pontiki> i've never paired officially with anyone
<agent_white> I wish there was more mentoring pairing stuff for noobs. I joined one from reddit, but we were both beginners... blind leading the blind.
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<pontiki> if shoulder surfed and kibitzed
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<pontiki> s/if/i've/
<sevenseacat> i will forever associate the word 'struth' with alf stewart.
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<pontiki> i have coded in public... which is weird as
<volty> enough :) bye to all, and advice to pipework to not break eggs (or bark) the next time somebody's trying to express his opinions
<pontiki> blah blah volty blah blah
<pipework> pontiki: You're a voyeur developer!
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<pipework> Exciting.
<volty> do not behave like small coins
<Radar> Oh we all don't have volty on ignore yet?
<pontiki> sorta
<volty> do not go like a tribe
<pontiki> i was missing the fun
<volty> we are all humans, aren't we ? :)
<volty> bye
<pipework> Radar: I figure that if everyone ignores him, the poor new people won't have anyone to let them know his advice is rubbish when it sucks.
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<pontiki> pipework: voyeur and exhibitioning, if you must know
<pipework> pontiki: Ah, that's quite the hobby.
<Radar> pipework: sounds fiar
<pontiki> exhibitionist*
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<pipework> Radar: is fiar another one of your narnian words?
<pontiki> damn fingers have minds of their own
<Radar> fair*
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<pipework> Damn, was hoping to learn more Narnian so that I could try to talk down a hoopsnake or a dropbear if necessary.
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<Radar> heh
<pontiki> you still have to watch for the bunyips, regardless
<sevenseacat> come visit narnia then :P
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<pipework> That is frightening, pontiki.
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<sevenseacat> come to rubyconf au in february!
<pontiki> i want to
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<pontiki> *really* want to
<pipework> sevenseacat: I wonder if my company wouldn't mind that...
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<pontiki> frikken february in minnesnowdia :(((
<sevenseacat> hear many australian accents and some kiwi ones
<pipework> I get like $5000/year to educate meself
<agent_white> pontiki: I feel you. It was -10 out today while I was tending to the farm amninals :(
<pontiki> :''(
<pipework> sevenseacat: You'd have to help me with my accent so I can come home and speak like a Narnian.
<sevenseacat> february in aus is hot :(
<sevenseacat> too hot
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<pontiki> pipework: 5 grand makes a hecka stake for a good trip to oz
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<pipework> pontiki: I mean, I don't have to spend it in one trip, but I can.
<pontiki> ever been?
<pontiki> i <3 melbourne
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<pipework> never even once
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<pipework> I'd need to get my passport.
<pontiki> get it now
<pontiki> even if you don't go
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<pontiki> the lead time on them is huge
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<pipework> I've been thinking about trying to convince ireland to give me citizenship.
<sevenseacat> i have a passport, ive never used it :(
<pipework> dual citizenship would be great between the US and Ireland. I could enter places as an Irishman that I might not be able to as an American.
<pontiki> you'd have to work on that accent, too
<sevenseacat> irish accents can be hot, but then again so can american ones
<pipework> pontiki: I live next to an irishman who has dual citizenship between the US and Ireland.
<pontiki> that's cool
<pipework> sevenseacat: Which American accents?
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<sevenseacat> lots of them. like avdi grimm's accent.
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<pipework> sevenseacat: Oh, that's like a combination of an accent and a really deep voice.
<pipework> Unless you don't really care either way for the deepness.
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<sevenseacat> the deepness is good :)
<pontiki> avdi's is the classic american radio voice
<pipework> Not what I expected when I first heard him. But I like hearing it.
<pontiki> sexy as hell
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<pipework> "Talk weather to me, baby."
<pipework> I want to hear him imitate NPR.
<sevenseacat> i wasnt going to say it pontiki, but yeah :P
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<pontiki> i get all buttery when he signs off with "happy hacking!"
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<porfa> d
* pipework sends logs to avdigrimm
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<zacts> pipework: ok, I got the books
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<pipework> zacts: Sweet, now read. I really suggest typing out everything code-wise. Not because you won't get it when you read it, but typing it makes it easier for me to really 'get' it.
<zacts> ok, sure
<pipework> It becomes easier to recall and use when I've typed it.
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<pontiki> and take notes!
<pipework> And drink heavily!
<pipework> (wait, no, that's just me)
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<pontiki> coders with drinks
<zacts> I drink tea and coffee
<pontiki> need to start a group like that
<zacts> and water
<pontiki> everyone around here is into beer
<pipework> My manager said I should always be sober while working. L-oh-fucking-L.
<pipework> pontiki: I mostly drink liquor and ciders.
<pontiki> i thought you were your own boss
<pontiki> yeah, i drink cider
<pontiki> i used to drink a lot more wine, but lately it just runs straight to my head
<pipework> Though admittedly, Radar turned me onto cider. I'd had them before, but hadn't really thought to like them.
<pontiki> i never liked beer
<pipework> pontiki: It goes to my head and my bladder, and I'm sure you know where it goes after that.
<pontiki> but i found cider first time i went to france
<pontiki> and wine of course
<pipework> No, I'm a company ginger now. Have been for a year.
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<pontiki> oh, well - i was gonna say your manager is an ass
<agent_white> pontiki/pipework: You should try Smith & Forge. Had it for the first time recently, damned good cider.
<agent_white> Also Johnny Appleseed... but woodchuck is my go-to :)
<pontiki> oh dear
<pontiki> do not like woodchuck
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<pontiki> scottish strongbow is my go-to when i can find it
<pontiki> the stuff we have lately is not that
<pipework> I mostly drink stuff from the pacific northwest. I'm trying to track down the one I like the most though.
<pipework> Strongbow cider is pretty good.
<agent_white> pontiki: Ooo... I'll have to try it!
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<pontiki> ace peary from sebastopol is awesome
<pipework> Portland Cider Company isn't terrible, but most of it is super acidic candy cider.
<pontiki> also hard to find
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<pontiki> like angry orchard :P
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<pontiki> crispin is a good local cider
<gr33n7007h> old rosie or black dragon
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<Radar> love me some angry orchard
<Radar> gr33n7007h: still waiting on that paypal money btw
<pipework> Radar: What kind?
<pontiki> i do not like angry orchard
<Radar> pipework: the cider
<pipework> Radar: There's like a bunch
<agent_white> Out here in the boonies, if you don't drink Coors then you're some fancy city-slicker.
<pipework> I've been trying all the special kinds lately.
<Radar> pipework: I like all cider
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<pipework> Radar: Even the elderflower?
<Radar> oh god no
<pipework> That was terrible.
<Radar> agree
<pipework> Radar: Two towns has one of the worst ciders I've ever had. Looking it up.
<Radar> I had a hoppy cider in Bend. The damn reason I don't drink beer is because of the hops
<pontiki> if you can find the ace, give it a go
<pontiki> too right
<pipework> pontiki: "Ace" or "The Ace"? Picture?
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<pontiki> the brand is ace, and there's a picture of a ace of spades playing card on the bottle, usually
<pontiki> let me see if i have one
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<pipework> Atlas Blackberry/Elderberry Cider was horrible
<pipework> pontiki: Ah.
<pipework> that's obviously a flavor, but the whole ace card bottle thing
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<pontiki> yeah, that's it
<pontiki> sorry, i think i remember an old logo. but that's definitely it
<pontiki> when we used to go up to sebastopol for the celtic music festival, we'd spend a fair bit of time at their pub
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<Radar> RuntimeError: can't add a new key into hash during iteration
<Radar> Well that's a new one.
<pipework> Radar: is it?
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<Radar> I've never seen that error before.
<pipework> Oh it's a fun one, but you clearly know what caused it.
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<pipework> I've hit it and went 'duh! stupid pipework'
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<Radar> I do?
<Radar> :P
<sevenseacat> trying to modify a hash that you're iterating over? >_>
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<pipework> Radar: You're doing a map or something like an enumerable method and you're adding keys into the hash you're iterating on
<Radar> Not iterating over a hash
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<Radar> this is chendo's code so it's a bit crazy (in a good way)
<pipework> Oh.
<sevenseacat> hah
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<pipework> Is it opensauced?
<Radar> no
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<sevenseacat> sekrit lifx code.
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<pipework> Oh you work with the chendo?
<Radar> yes
<pipework> I thought he was still working on his own thing, doing shortcat and other apps.
<pipework> I still use the shit out of shortcat.
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<Radar> naw, he's working at lifx being my manager and stuff
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<sevenseacat> being a boss man? interesting
<Radar> he doesn't like being the boss man
<pipework> Radar: Oh.
<pipework> Didn't figure him for a manager.
<pipework> Some day when I get fed up with developers that aren't me (and those that are me), I'll get into management so I can have a fancy chair and a bigger salary.
<pipework> That may or may not coincide with my early demise shortly following that transition though.
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<Radar> Yeah, he's really reluctant to be the manager. But he's the most senior (in programming terms... in actual terms he's the youngest) and so he's the manager
<Radar> He also knows the stack the best
<pipework> Radar: Maybe I'll just troll him about documenting the binary protocol instead of you.
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<pipework> You've not responded too hilariously lately.
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<Radar> brb
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<pontiki> better and more technical experience and knowledge often does not translate into effective management
<pontiki> frequently, it goes the other way
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<Radar> back
<ukfagsmoker> what is the point of working with rspec? i don't quite get it although i am taking a course from codeschool
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<Radar> ukfagsmoker: RSpec or testing in general?
<ukfagsmoker> well testing in general
<ukfagsmoker> is rspec a "language
<ukfagsmoker> "language"
<Radar> It's a behaviour driven development framework built on Ruby
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<Radar> It allows you to write code to test code you haven't written yet
<Radar> The point of testing is to make sure your code does what you expect it to... and then if it changes in the future, to have that framework in place
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<pipework> ukfagsmoker: Testing is great because it lets you know when something you made an assertion on no longer passes that assertion.
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<ukfagsmoker> but aren't you writing that code twice in a way? wouldn't it be better to just run it?
<pipework> Imagine, if you would, if we didn't have smoke detectors and your only hope of not dying in your sleep was that you woke up before you died.
<pipework> ukfagsmoker: Run it and then test all the possible permutations that matter manually?
<pipework> What happens after you add another feature that's related? Do you test permutations of feature A times permutations of feature B manually?
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<pipework> What if I told you could automate these tests to make sure the code you wrote actually works when you add new code and complexity?
<ukfagsmoker> i don't know mate, this whole thing to me is rather confusing
<pipework> ukfagsmoker: It can be.
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<pipework> It really depends on how eager you are to push potentially completely horrendously broken things out because you relied on testing manually instead of letting a computer do it for you.
<ukfagsmoker> but aren't you letting the computer test the things for you when you're running your code?
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<pipework> ukfagsmoker: Why do you think just running the code will suss out problems with input and timing?
<josephndenton> ukfagsmoker: Code that runs is not always code that is error free.
<pipework> It being valid ruby doesn't mean the code actually does what you want it to.
<godd2> ukfagsmoker no. testing and running are two different kinds of things. It's like a power supply. You aren't testing your computer's power supply, but you are using it. power supply testing would be taking it out and checking the voltages on each wire
<pipework> You'd think if that were true, software would always just work and there'd be no hilarious reddits like talesfromtechsupport
<pipework> subreddits that is
<godd2> pipework cant live without my chrome ultra though
<josephndenton> ukfagsmoker: The real beauty of testing comes as complexity grows. If your test suite still passes after a new feature, you can rest assured that you didn't break anything.
<josephndenton> godd2: Ultron* :p
<pipework> And if you're concerned about writing twice the code, you're also wrong. It's not unreasonable for the tests to be larger or more numerous than your implementation.
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<godd2> ukfagsmoker It's true that there are other ways to get the benefits that testing provides you, but running your code is not one of them.
<pipework> You could hire a bunch of QA's, who'll either constantly repeat the same exploratory-style tests, or they'll just write tests for you.
<Radar> ukfagsmoker: Would you rather run your code manually 100 times or write a test that can be ran 100 times?
<lampd1> mmm selenium
<pipework> Complexity is the biggest thing to consider.
<pipework> lampd1: ugh slow selenium
<lampd1> :P
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<lampd1> what you use?
<lampd1> i actually don't use it much :P
<pipework> I push my tests down as low into the stack as I can while maintaining a healthy and minimal set of functional tests.
<pipework> But for functional testing web applications, I tend to use phantomjs
<lampd1> nice, i'll have to check it out
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<lampd1> i do a lot of ecom, sometimes have to make some annoying functional tests :P
<pipework> I usually work on backends these days though, so I test my clients with integration tests and the app itself with request specs.
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<lampd1> yeah
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<josephndenton> Capybara no longer good for higher level tests?
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<pipework> Why wouldn't it be?
<pipework> I use capybara to drive phantomjs
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<pipework> Most people who use ruby and selenium use capybara with the selenium driver.
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<hephaestus_rg> hi there, does anyone know of something like string.parameterize in python?
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<pipework> hephaestus_rg: What does that do?
<pipework> Do you mean, "Can I use parameterized strings in Ruby?"
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<Radar> hephaestus_rg: !explain
<helpa> hephaestus_rg: Please explain your problem better as we are having trouble understanding what you mean. A Gist (http://gist.github.com) is always helpful!
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<hephaestus_rg> i mean, i'm writing a python program. and ruby/rails has a nice function called parameterize
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<hephaestus_rg> which removes all nasty characters from a string to make it look like a pretty url
<hephaestus_rg> does such a thing exist in tornado/python or do i need to write it from scratch
<pipework> hephaestus_rg: Ask pythonists then.
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<hephaestus_rg> i did :)
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<godd2> hephaestus_rg keep in mind that rails adds a bunch of it's own classes and methods, so you probably have to write it from scratch just like it was for rails
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<hephaestus_rg> thanks godd2
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<ukfagsmoker> thanks guys for explaining the power of tests
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<ukfagsmoker> i now understand how they're used and why but i won't have an appreciation for them until i really will start working with them
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<mark06> anyone wants to help fixing the issues? https://github.com/renatosilva/easyoptions :)
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<Radar> ukfagsmoker: I have a blog post that's based on a true story about tests: http://ryanbigg.com/2010/02/congratulations/
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<godd2> mark06 if you want to output to $stderr, just use warn instead of $stderr.puts
<agent_white> ukfagsmoker: Radar also has a good video on TDD with Conway's Game of Life. vimeo.com/31403388
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<mark06> godd2: what's the benefits
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<godd2> mark06 functionally it's the same, but it's not idiomatic to use global vars
<mark06> godd2: I'm more interested in eliminating $options and $arguments (not use global vaiables)
<mark06> godd2: four spaces and some other stuff are not idiomatic either :)
<mark06> but I don't feel like giving up four spaces, two are so odd
<mark06> most important things are the globa vars issue, and the listed bugs
<godd2> >> 2.odd?
<eval-in__> godd2 => false (https://eval.in/221136)
<godd2> mark06 why did you make them global variables to begin with?
<mark06> godd2: ah I see now, yeah warn and puts, better to read
<mark06> godd2: because it was the easiest way to make them fully available... I know now that I can put the vars within a class/module instead
<mark06> I just need time to write the code...
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<godd2> mark06 one big issue with globals is that if I require your code, it might interfere with another required file that defines $options
<godd2> so the solution here is to create a namespace for you code with a module that encapsulates the functionality of $options
<ukfagsmoker> thanks guys!
<godd2> so like EasyOpts::OPTIONS or something
<ukfagsmoker> are there any sites you'd recommend to watch code alongs?
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<godd2> ukfagsmoker there are a few more great talks about unit testing examples. lemme grab one by sandy metz
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<ukfagsmoker> thank you godd2 :)
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<ukfagsmoker> i heard that there were live coding videos, but they are now acquired by pluralsight
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<mark06> godd2: indeed, that's why I want to remove them
<mark06> godd2: it will be longer to be repeated everywhere in the client's code but EasyOptions::options[:name] is just better
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<Oog> i want a +? in a regex if that makes sense.... so "<http://www.msn.com>".match(/<(.*)>+?/)[1] - i want it to eat the > if present but if not i still want it to match
<godd2> (>+)?
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<Oog> not eating the > "<http://www.msn.com>".match(/<(.*)(>+)?/)[1] -> "http://www.msn.com>"
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<Oog> got it
<Oog> "<http://www.msn.com>".match(/<(.+)(>)+?/)[1]
<godd2> >> "<http://www.msn.com>".match(/<([^>]*)(>+)?/)[1]
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<Hanmac> godd2 & Oog i think that might be nicer:
<Hanmac> >> "<http://www.msn.com>"[/<([^>]*)(>+)?/,1]
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<Oog> that gets rid of > in the middle but i wan to keep them if there
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<Oog> did you index with a regex?! cna you do that?
<godd2> Oog Are you trying to parse htlm with regex?
<Oog> godd2: no im parsing the list-unsubscribe header of a mime email header
<Oog> wow you can index with a regex that is crazy
<Oog> i had no idea
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<Oog> i split on , then use the mail library to parse what is possibly an email address but if it fails it means it is possibly a link if it starts with < so format is <link> so that is what imparsing - better way?
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<Oog> i spoke too soon my "<http://www.msn.com".match(/<(.+)(>)+?/)[1] actually fails
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<Oog> maybe what i want isnt possible...
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<shortCircuit__> marnig everyone
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<zacts> hi
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<gr33n7007h> johnny five is alive
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<agent_white> herro
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<zacts> ok I'm @ the last ch of the pragmatic 'Learn to Program' book that uses ruby. next is the black ruby book 2nd edition
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<zacts> the orange tree exercise was fun
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<chris__> lk;lk
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<shevy> wtf;wtf
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<EasyCo> Hey guys, I'm trying to sort an array of objects by the label property. ie. myarrayofobj.sort(&:label)
<EasyCo> But the problem is it's possible that not every item in the array is an object, it's possible that it's just nil
<EasyCo> Therefore throwing an undefined method error
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<godd2> EasyCo there are a couple solutions. One is to pass a block instead of just &:label and do a nil check inside
<godd2> another other ("better") solution is to use a Null Object Pattern
<godd2> so that everything in your aray is either an instance of a class that accepts label as a method, or the "null" version of the same class
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<godd2> yet another solution is to use an Optional monad, but that's a different design direction than idiomatic Ruby tends to go
<zenspider> EasyCo: sort_by(&:label)
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<zenspider> EasyCo: sorted = myarrayofobj.compact.sort_by(&:label)
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<EasyCo> Thanks godd2, that's what I thought. Unfortunately I can't modify the array to fit a null object pattern
<EasyCo> zenspider: those don't solve the undefined method issue
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<zenspider> EasyCo: garbage in garbage out
<zenspider> [1, "woot", {}].sort
<zenspider> doesn't make sense, does it?
<godd2> EasyCo just filter out nils before a sort?
<EasyCo> godd2: Yah that's what I'll do, thanks.
<EasyCo> zenspider: Unfortuantely I can't control the garbage in, I got to filter it and take out the recyclables
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<godd2> zenspider that's easy. Hashes are more important than numbers, so it's [{}, 1, "woot"]
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<zenspider> DUH
<zenspider> EasyCo: sorted = myarrayofobj.find_all {|x| x.respond_to? :label }.sort_by(&:label)
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<siwica> anyone developing ruby in emacs? what modes are you using?
<zenspider> I use enh-ruby-mode, but ruby-mode works well enough for most code
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<godd2> woot, just got a personal high score on 10fastfingers.
<godd2> I swear, being better at touch typing makes programming way more fun
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<shevy> yeah
<shevy> it's the daily mantra of java coders to keep going on
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<zenspider> 10fastfingers?
<zenspider> is that a gamified typing tutor?
<zacts> ok, on to 'the well grounded rubyist'
<godd2> That's a fairly accurate discription
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<godd2> zenspider there are a couple gamification elements like achievements, but they don't go all out
<zenspider> so your high score isn't your wpm?
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<zenspider> what was your high score?
<godd2> no, it is, I was just pointing out other gamey things
<godd2> I just hit 106 for the first time
<godd2> but its only the 200 most common English words. I can't actually type that fast
<shevy> hehe
<shevy> what was the link again?
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<zenspider> heh. I'll have to check it out. I have no idea how fast I type
<zenspider> @tenderlove just switched from qwerty to norman and he currently sucks at typing
<godd2> 2 years ago I couldn't type faster than 30 without looking.
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<zenspider> I have no idea how I compare
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<zacts> I don't like dvorak for my taste
<zenspider> I love it
<zacts> it's too repetitive, my wrists became tired faster when I tried it
<zacts> plus I'm a vimmer
<shevy> damn
<shevy> I am at 114
<shevy> VijjuPraveen is at 142
<zenspider> too repetitive? I disagree. it is much more even per hand / finger than qwerty
<shevy> indian superhero
<shevy> godd2 that scrolling thing is annoying; I lost track of the next sentence 3 times...
<godd2> I've gotten used to it. Also, if you click the timer, it will be hidden
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<godd2> the timer always distracts me
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<shevy> and there was one word that took me about 3 times as long as the others... perhaps it was business... is there a way to find out what the text was? I wanna find out why my brain took so much longer than for the other words there
<shevy> I mean the word "business" ... or it was nearby to that word
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<godd2> no, 10ff doesn't give a list of missed words, but this one does: http://typing-speed-test.aoeu.eu/?lang=en
<zenspider> hah
<godd2> and it's a different word list. its good for variation
<shevy> whoa how do people reach +140 ...
<shevy> I think without that weird word... and losing track... I might have been at 120 or 125 at max
<shevy> wtf dogsquirrel2 124
<zenspider> sweet jesus
<zenspider> my ceo at omni typed ~200 iirc
<zenspider> it was absurd
<zenspider> and he could code about as fast as he could type too
<shevy> wow
<shevy> superhuman speed
<agent_white> My old-boss was at 120-140 as a coder.
<agent_white> I'm at 90.
<agent_white> Some day... my fingers will catch on fire.
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<godd2> agent_white jsut practice 10 minutes a day or so
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<shevy> agent_white 90 is already quite good, should not take you long at all to go above 100
<agent_white> godd2: My practice is hopping on IRC. The rest will come with time.
<shevy> haha
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<godd2> lol
<zenspider> I got a whopping 72. I find those tests to be fairly invalid, since they have no semantic meaning and I can have my brain stream over the words very well
<zenspider> 1 typo
<zenspider> I also peter out half way. if there was a 30 second test it would be better :)
<godd2> zenspider I agree on the issue of syntax. I would love to see at least a rudimentary grammar behind the wordlist.
<zenspider> 74 on the other one. typo'd more too.
<zenspider> 3 mistakes all 3 letter words
<zenspider> cpm of 370! that sounds impressive! woo
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<godd2> haha
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<godd2> Having a mechanical keyboard made a difference too
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<kumarat9pm> We can achieve each loop with a for loop, why there is a special each loop in Ruby?
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<zenspider> because there is
<sevenseacat> because they have different scopes
<zenspider> godd2: oh? better or worse?
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<godd2> zenspider better. I have cherry mx brown switches. no clicky, but you can feel the actuation
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<godd2> mightve been a little placebo + practice though.
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<zenspider> haha
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<zenspider> cherry mx brown... mmmmm... 2004. *sniiiiff* goooood year
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<godd2> haha, well if you don't have a mechanical keyboard, you should definitely try one. Youll never want to go back to membrane
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<zenspider> I prefer the keyboard attached to my laptop, which follows me everywhere.
<zenspider> I couldn't handle lugging a keyboard with me
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<godd2> well yea, not a *normal* keyboard
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<zacts> I need a more powerful bluetooth keyboard for my tablet
<zacts> one that let's me remap caps -> ctrl
<zenspider> it's a pretty good book. between this and what?
<zacts> I'm following piperwork's earlier suggestion to read eloquent rubiest 2nd edition -> Metaprogramming Ruby. Should I read poodr after or before metaprogramming ruby?
<zenspider> oh... before I think
<zacts> ah ok
<zenspider> metaprogramming should be close to last
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<godd2> I havent read poodr but I have read meta, and I would just say that it's not as scary as the title makes it out to be :P
<zacts> ok
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<godd2> and the presentation is very straightforward and easy to understand.
<zenspider> it isn't... but it sure makes everything look like a nail
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<godd2> that's true, but I will say that it helped me understand Ruby's inheritance model at a deep level
<godd2> i.e. the method lookup chain, shadow classes, etc.
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<gaussblurinc1> hi
<gaussblurinc1> does anybody use ruby-git?
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<everettForth> using rake, how do I uninstall rake 10.1.0 and install rake 10.3.2?
<Hanmac> everettForth: why not "gem update" ?
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<godd2> gaussblurinc1 I have not. I just use git. Did you have a question about ruby-git?
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<everettForth> gem update installs both versions. when I try to do gem uninstall rake -v 10.1.0, I get: gem "rake" cannot be uninstalled because it is a default gem
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<sevenseacat> then you dont uninstall it
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<sevenseacat> what problem are you trying to solve?
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<godd2> everettForth when requiring gems in code, it will grab the latest version unless otherwise specified
<everettForth> i don't want to have to type "bundle exec rails" instead of "rails"
<Pupeno> Does anybody know if it would be possible to trigger RubyMine's debugger whenever an assertion fails?
<sevenseacat> use binstubs.
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<zacts> for those who may be familiar with perl, is there a ruby equivalent to perlbrew?
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<zacts> perlbrew is like a perl installation manager, and lets you have multiple local perls installed easily
<godd2> zacts rvm is one
<sevenseacat> you want something like rvm, rbenv or chruby
<zacts> I have ruby-2.0 on slackware, but I need 2.1 I guess for this book
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<zacts> ah ok
<zacts> which one is the most flexible in the long run?
<godd2> and rbenv too? Im not sure on that one
<zacts> well actually
<zacts> which is the most newbie friendly?
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<zacts> so I can get up and running right now
<godd2> I have found rvm newb friendly
<zacts> ok
<zacts> cool
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<Hanmac> everettForth: its a rails problem, ask #rubyonrails
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<zacts> so is 2.1.4 the latest stable, or is 2.1.5 in /topic the latest stable?
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<zacts> rvm list known, is showing 2.1.4 as the latest apart from -head
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<zacts> for mruby I guess
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<shevy> 2.1.5 zacts
<zacts> ok, thanks
<shevy> 2.1.5 is like 2.1.4 with a patch against one XML vulnerability
<shevy> stupid XML!
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<zacts> ok
<zacts> so far I like rvm better than perlbrew
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<zacts> I'm also enjoying ruby more than Perl, which I never thought would happen.
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<zacts> but perl is still nice for many things..
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<PierreRambaud> zacts, every languages have their benefits ;)
<zacts> ok, I just got the OOP ruby book. so it's going to be black book -> poodr -> metaprogramming ruby
<zacts> PierreRambaud: indeed
<zacts> but some are more *fun* than others
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<shevy> zacts what is perlbrew?
<zacts> shevy: it's the perl equivalent to rvm
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<zacts> shevy: http://perlbrew.pl/
<zacts> I'm hoping I can get perlbrew and rvm to play together nicely too, we'll see how it goes
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<txdv> perlbrew is like rvm?
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<shevy> hmmm
<shevy> perlbrew homepage looks like a copy paste from homebrew
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<zacts> ok, does rvm play well with zsh. mksh isn't working with it..
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<shevy> dunno
<shevy> I use bash and compile ruby from source \o/
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<zacts> ok I think zsh will work
<shevy> \o/
<shevy> the ruby is getting stronger in you
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<shevy> PierreRambaud can I call you Pierre Rambo?
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<PierreRambaud> shevy, As you wish ;) I'm planning to call my son John :)
<shevy> lol
<txdv> Long Johnson
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<shevy> txdv it's been a while since your last shevy cheer
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<txdv> i usually do them when you are afk
<gregf__> perlbrew eq rvm and rbenv eq plenv
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<gregf__> theres nothing like chperl tho' for chruby
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<gregf__> but yeah rails seems to be less confusing with rvm :/
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<gregf__> >> Array.new(10){ "shevy" }.join("! ")
<eval-in__> gregf__ => "shevy! shevy! shevy! shevy! shevy! shevy! shevy! shevy! shevy! shevy" (https://eval.in/221305)
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<shevy> \o/
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<brushdemon> t
<brushdemon> f
<brushdemon> w
<maasha> can someone who knows the Ruby API please have a look at this and tell me what the hell is going on with the values in the returned array? https://gist.github.com/maasha/511a59f2cd8231f8ede2
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<maasha> The printf statement outputs correctly, but the values are mutated when returned on the ruby array :o(
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<maasha> line 85-6
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<Hanmac> maasha: you might need to test the Testcase itself ... for some reason the output is sorted
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<txdv> call paasha
<txdv> he will help you
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<maasha> Hanmac: ah, I was indeed looking the wrong place for the bug. The C code is fine. I didnt notice the sorting - well spotted.
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<banister> Hanmac i think i found your picture onoline
<banister> Hanmac this is u, right? http://cl.ly/image/2Y0z363u2n1G
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<DefV> never think I'd do this, but is anyone from Belgium and looking for a ruby job?
<Hanmac> not that i know but maybe in 30-40years ;P
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<maasha> s/ruby/blow/
<shevy> lol
<txdv> i live 5km away from belgium
<shevy> the more irritating thing is that you have to be from Belgium
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<shevy> can't it be some big country
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<DefV> well, you can be from anywhere you like
<DefV> you just have to come work in belgium :-)
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<txdv> so racist
<shevy> txdv now that's a call - you can bridge the 5km
<txdv> do i need to eat belgian waffles too while im working?
<shevy> belgium is famous for chocolate mice txdv
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<txdv> chocolate mice?
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<maasha> Belgium have beer, waffles, chocolate, and comic books
<txdv> o the beer is good
<shevy> it's a cool place for sure
<shevy> but you have to speak french
<txdv> yeah
<txdv> brussels fosdems
<txdv> is the place where i learned that miguel de icaza speaks french
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<shevy> cool
<shevy> he sounds so spanish
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<DefV> well
<DefV> you have to speach dutch
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<DefV> speak*
<txdv> shevy: he is mexican
<DefV> for the position I'm trying to fill :-)
<txdv> i guess
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<txdv> shitty wizard
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<zacts> wow, I'm a total OOP newbie. so in ruby, you can define a method for an object after the object is created.
<zacts> so the concept of a class in ruby isn't nearly as important as the concept of an object
<shevy> zacts well, that method will be unique of that object in question
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<godd2> unless he monkey patches the class
<shevy> ruby is like 80% OOP and 20% prototypic
<shevy> yeah but he wrote "define a method for an object", he did not write for all objects
<shevy> we gotta train up the newcomers godd2
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<shevy> to show them where the hammer is hanging
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<zacts> ok, well let me really finish reading this ch, let it digest in my mind, and then I'll return for questions. I don't want to get ahead of myself, I'm just excited with ruby so far I guess.
<godd2> faaaiir enough
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<zacts> my ideas about OOP were primitive / almost stereotypical I think, with ruby you really get more power than I thought you could with objects, I guess.
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<zacts> I'm assuming that some, or a lot, of this is inherited from smalltalk..
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<zacts> (please pardon my newbieness) =)
<godd2> zacts as far as I understand, the message passing is the biggest concept taken from small talk, along with the overall look (no semicolons, optional parens)
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<shevy> what are you reading zacts ?
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<shevy> well zacts
<shevy> there is not one OOP definition out there
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<godd2> I think he's reading POODR
<shevy> my favourite one is how Alan Kay defined OOP
<shevy> winnie the pooh?
<zacts> poodr
<zacts> oh no
<zacts> I'm reading ch 2 of http://www.manning.com/black3/
<shevy> zacts some is derived from smalltalk but other parts are derived from perl - ruby was more of a melting pot, how matz saw something useful and tried to include it into ruby
<zacts> just the beginning, and already I'm seeing how my view of objects is being turned upside down
<shevy> small talk does not have optional parens or? lemme lookup
<agent_white> Mine will be once I look more into metaprogramming.
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<shevy> hehe
<shevy> improve your typing speed first
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<zacts> shevy: I had a crude understanding of objects from Perl, but I never got deep into Moose. I was told to learn ruby to learn about OOPish ideas.
<godd2> OOPish; gotta use that one more often
<zacts> Perl doesn't have resources like ruby does on this stuff, it seems.
<shevy> I want this: http://goo.gl/ZTM3OM
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<zacts> and ruby is more fun for me anyway, I can see myself getting addicted
<gregf__> zacts: Moose is very similar to ruby, you can add methods to an instance on the fly
<shevy> well, perl did not have objects in mind when it was designed
<shevy> perl was just a better text manipulator than awk + sed back then
<shevy> matz had the advantage of being able to look at perl
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<shevy> so Larry became his hero
<zacts> gregf__: ah interesting, yeah I just created and blessed objects from scratch mainly
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<shevy> and matz the hero for other people who found ruby to be better than perl
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<agent_white> shevy: But Larry loves types.
<siaw> How do I use SecureRandom to print some random number?
<zacts> I didn't really read or learn much about Moose yet.
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<agent_white> He isn't _too_ fond of Ruby.
<gregf__> nah, in moose you dont do no blessing, cuz you can do many unholy things there :/
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<shevy> agent_white that with the types confuses me too ... scalar + different syntax meaning different types...
<agent_white> shevy: /me shrugs
<gregf__> zacts: if you;ve done a bit of java and a bit of Perl, ruby is easier :/
<olivier_bK> i try to add ruby script in crontab but i dont know why the script top before the (puts "before array") ?
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<godd2> siaw require 'securerandom'; SecureRandom.random_number(100)
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<shevy> olivier_bK it won't output anything right?
<shevy> because it runs as a daemon-like process through cron
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<godd2> siaw that will, of course, in a cryptographicall secure manner, generate a random number between 0 and 100 (including 0, excluding 100)
<siaw> godd2: thanks
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<olivier_bK> when i execute the script manualy it's good
<olivier_bK> but with crontab he stop
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<jhass> olivier_bK: your tests must be flawed. this is just a method that's never called
<jhass> also make sure you test with sudo -u$crontab_user env -i $crontab invocation
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<jhass> even if you would run the method, there's so much wrong with it....
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<P-NuT> Does anyone know where I can get performance metrics on rails / sinatra? I want to use ruby to write a webapp for raspberry pi, but due to its limited resources I'm not 100% sure that rails would be a good fit. Any siggestions?
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<atmosx> P-NuT: I've deployed rails app on RPi
<atmosx> P-NuT: less than 100 MB for the entire stack IIRC ~ 70...
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<unshadow> I'm trying to look at a string and match only DES but not 3DES I thought match(/[^3]DES/i) will do it but apperently i'm wrong XD
<atmosx> P-NuT: just don't use memory-driven DB's like Redis and you'll be fine.
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<atmosx> unshadow: try rubular.com
<unshadow> I did , cant find the right regexp
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<_1_crime> hey
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<jhass> hi
<Mateon1> unshadow: /(?<!3)DES/i
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<P-NuT> atmosx: any suggestions on what to use? I was using MYSQL
<jhass> postgres performs better in my experience
<unshadow> Nice , thanks Mateon1
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<atmosx> P-NuT: sure MySQL is great ~ 40 MB of memory
<atmosx> P-NuT: hm jhass is right, but I'm using MySQL and runs fine too.
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<jhass> you can pretty precisely control postgres memory usage, not sure about mariadb/mysql there
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<atmosx> I'm off cya later.
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<mwlang> Got an odd one for y’all: I inherited a project that has a few Perl scripts along with Ruby on Rails project. The perl scripts load externally supplied data, but there’s no testing framework around them. Has anyone ever slapped Unit::Test or Rspec around scripts/logic written in another language? (which is what I’m thinking to do here since I know Ruby best and don’t know anything about any Perl test frameworks)
<mwlang> its going to be more along the vein of characterization tests than anything since I don’t have original specs on the script, but I figured some basic verification tests is better than nothing at all as we do need to tweak some of these perl scripts slightly.
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<linduxed> mwlang: so i think you're only gonna be able to write acceptance tests
<shevy> ack
<linduxed> checking the behaviour of the thing
<jhass> mwlang: no personal experience with it, but https://github.com/cucumber/aruba might be of interest
<mwlang> linduxed: yes, basically.
<linduxed> "if i run the script with this command then what do i get back on STDOUT"
<mwlang> linduxed: more like, if I run the script with this command, then what do I have in my database?"
<linduxed> if you need some inspiration for how to write a testing framework for something totally external
<linduxed> which you still need to interface with
<linduxed> then this library might be some inspiration https://github.com/TV4/Urushiol
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<linduxed> not sure if it will help you a lot
<linduxed> a very simple start would be to write some tests which run `perl the_script.pl` (with the backticks) and see what you get back
<linduxed> or you could use something like popen3
<linduxed> that's also good
<linduxed> and then analyze the STDOUT stream
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<mwlang> linduxed: both aruba and urushiol give me some ideas.
<linduxed> you could then probably write some methods/helpers/wrappers for the analysis of the output data
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<mwlang> I can wrap some helper methods around this to make the test calls easier
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<shevy> or rewrite it in ruby!
<mwlang> shevy: that’s the end-game goal.
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<mwlang> The main thing I needed was a strategy for putting some tests around the whole shebang.
<ernestonavarro> hello guys
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<ernestonavarro> I have a very stupid question
<ernestonavarro> from /System/Library/Frameworks/Ruby.framework/Versions/2.0/usr/lib/ruby/2.0.0/rubygems/core_ext/kernel_require.rb:55:in `require'
<ernestonavarro> from language_file_generator.rb:1:in `<main>'
<ernestonavarro> the gem is installed
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<sevenseacat> what gem?
<jhass> luckily only two lines came through
<jhass> use a paste service please
<shevy> ernestonavarro that error does not tell us much
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<ernestonavarro> .../2.0.0/rubygems/core_ext/kernel_require.rb:55:in `require': cannot load such file -- cvs (LoadError)
<shevy> hmm
<jhass> interesting, sounds like a broken ruby installation
<rpag_> csv
<shevy> no
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<shevy> ernestonavarro are you sure about this error
<ernestonavarro> cvs gem is installed
<shevy> no
<shevy> where did you get it?
<jhass> cvs is in stdlib
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<ernestonavarro> I'm trying to use cvs
<ernestonavarro> my own script
<shevy> you wrote cvs gem is installed - there is no gem called cvs on rubygems
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<jhass> darn, I'm not to full capacity yet and totally read that as csv m(
<shevy> ok c s v
<sevenseacat> csv != cvs
<shevy> :-)
<ernestonavarro> sorry
<ernestonavarro> really sorry
<ernestonavarro> :)
<shevy> jhass yeah you were not the only one, ernestonavarro too
<shevy> require 'csv' should suffice
<ernestonavarro> require 'cvs'
<ernestonavarro> CSV.foreach('resources/languages.cvs') do |row|
<ernestonavarro> puts row
<ernestonavarro> end
<shevy> hehehehehe
<shevy> :-)
<sevenseacat> heh
<ernestonavarro> dammm\
<ernestonavarro> hahahahahaha
<shevy> ernestonavarro you need to have good eyesight in ruby
<jhass> s/in ruby//
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<ernestonavarro> so stupid name
<ernestonavarro> sorry gus
<mwlang> cvs sells over the counter eyeglasses. :-)
<ernestonavarro> guys*
<jhass> comma separated values
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<jhass> memorize that, not the acronym
<ernestonavarro> yes I know, very stupid from me
<ernestonavarro> maybe is because i have cvs :)
<jhass> my condolences
<mwlang> fastercsv became de facto in Ruby 2.x, right?
<ernestonavarro> hate*
<shevy> yeah I mix it up with csv all the time
<shevy> comma separated value no?
<jhass> mwlang: fastercsv replaced csv in 2.0, yes
<shevy> comma... value ... separated
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<shevy> concurrent ... version ... system ...
<jhass> ernestonavarro: did you try git-cvs yet? ;P
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<ernestonavarro> no, no necesary, I didn't use CVS in more than 8 yeas, I wrote wrong, have by hate
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<ernestonavarro> I should get some sleep today :)
<shevy> lol
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<jheg__> o/
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<jheg__> I was in a chat room last night telling some folk about my immenint 3 month sabatical to learn ruby in as much depth as I can in 3 months when someone questioned my choice of language to learn ( basically stating that there are better languages to learn C++, JAVA, PHP, Python )
<txdv> there is always a better language
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<jheg__> I have reasons why I chose ruby due to its rel easy learnign curve compared to other languages plus the online resources and the community
<txdv> Smalltalk, erlang, lisp, ocaml
<txdv> everyone one of those language is better than the other
<jheg__> they then linked me to some wiki page showing what the top sites are developed in and that its a better career choice to go with those listed above but you have to start somewhere right?
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<jhass> there's basically a site of that kind for every language showing it on the top
<jheg__> thanks txdv
<jhass> they're highly biased
<jhass> for example #systemd had a nice troll yesterday with a bunch of these sites for C#, claiming that it's popular and systemd should be rewritten in it
<jheg__> yeah tis what I thought and in any case as long as I can actually learn the language and it has the capabilities to do what I need it to then its no biggy right?
<jhass> master the language you like, in the process you'll learn programming and can get good enough to quite good in any language in a short time
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<jhass> languages are tools, you need to choose the right one for the problem at hand
<jhass> while you can use a screwdriver or a rock to hammer in a nail, a hammer works better
<jheg__> thats exactly what I thought and it seems that ruby does a good job of removing bloat from the code so you can very quickly learn the fundamentals of programming without getting caught up with syntax intracies
<jhass> yes, I agree. But then I'm in #ruby so that's biased ;)
<jheg__> *intricacies
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<jheg__> yeah good place to discuss this if I want to feel good about my decision :)
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<txdv> jheg__: i was just kidding, I wanted to say that there will be always someone who says "Dude, my favourite language is the best one!"
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<jheg__> no I totally agree it’s the way of the world
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<txdv> for a dynamic scripting language ruby is nice to learn
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<txdv> especially since ruby monkey patching mechanisms are superior compared to other dynamic scripting language
<txdv> languages*
<apeiros> jheg__: I hope you asked them why they were using $LANG instead of malbolge, since that's undeniable TEH BESTEST lang
<jhass> well, I only do machinecode for my serious stuff!
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<apeiros> jhass: you crazy guy. everybody knows malbolge is 10x better than machine code!!!1!
<jhass> if you want to scale in the cloud, you need direct access to the bare metal
<apeiros> malbolge gives you access to the stuff beneath the metal!1!1elf
<txdv> (=<`#9]~6ZY32Vx/4Rs+0No-&Jk)"Fh}|Bcy?`=*z]Kw%oG4UUS0/@-ejc(:'8dc
<jhass> apeiros: I just need to rely on industry proven standards there, sorry
<apeiros> jhass: malbolge has you covered with ISO, DIN and YourMom standards!
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<jhass> no, the others ones. You know. NDA and stuff
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<wm3|away> apeiros: I assume malbolge covers those because no one can understand the code well enough to say it definitiely doesn't fulfil whatever standard you choose to say it implements?
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<apeiros> malbolge comes with all TLAs that exist! DNA, NSA, CIA, FBI, PSA, ETC
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<workmad3> apeiros: UTC
<workmad3> apeiros: how about FLAs?
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<jhass> but then, after hungrary we need to redevelop, I'll propose it I guess, see what the others say
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<jhass> the inbuilt source code recovery protection should come in handy
<apeiros> workmad3: of course!!!
<pontiki> morning o/
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<workmad3> pontiki: welcome to #malbolge
<apeiros> evening!
<apeiros> it's FRIDAY!
* apeiros friday-hugs the channel
<workmad3> !isitfriday?
<helpa> yes!
<workmad3> !friday !!!
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<toretore> gotta get down on friday
<pontiki> malbolge?
<workmad3> toretore: looking forward to the weekend, weekend
<pontiki> should i look that up?
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<workmad3> pontiki: that depends... are you fond of your sanity?
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<pontiki> i used to be, but it's been gone so long we're like perfect strangers
* apeiros arrests workmad3 for annoying the public
<toretore> workmad3: which seat shoud i take?
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<workmad3> toretore: the seat I just tied to the back of the car...
<pontiki> ah, 8th circle. i see
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<workmad3> apeiros: hater :P
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<pontiki> this is telling: "Weaknesses in the design have been found that make it possible (though still very difficult) to write useful Malbolge programs."
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<agent_white> Hour 21. My eyeballs melt from the LCD lavawaves... but the mirage of ruby code entices me with its promises of beauty.
<pontiki> *weaknesses* yielding *useful* programs
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<txdv> what a shitty programming language
<txdv> being useful and such
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<workmad3> pontiki: I believe the design aim was to create a programming language with syntax that was so complicated it would be effectively impossible for human-level intelligence to write code in it
<agent_white> workmad3: Oh you're talking about haskell!
<txdv> its like a wife who isn't a complete resource and nerve drain
* agent_white butts into conversations
<workmad3> agent_white: nah, haskell doesn't suffer from that weakness ;) </haskell_troll>
<pontiki> a collection of malbolge programs, in portuguese; couldn't possibly make it more difficult to understand
<agent_white> hehehe ;)
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<txdv> workmad3: don't understimate humans, the level of procrastrination they are capable to do is fascinating
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<pontiki> we're all here, aren't we?
<apeiros> workmad3: not hater. pubic.
<workmad3> ^^
<apeiros> gah
<txdv> just challenge the right human and he will write a melborge compiler in melborge
<apeiros> +l
<workmad3> apeiros: lol
<apeiros> horrible typo
<agent_white> Terry Davis
<workmad3> apeiros: freudian slip, much? :)
<apeiros> friday slip
* IceDragon walks and wonders what's going on in #ruby today...
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<workmad3> IceDragon: welcome to #malbolge-friday
<IceDragon> Wat
<IceDragon> Oh yeah, its friday
<IceDragon> carry on
<apeiros> I think we're carried off, tho
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<pontiki> carted off, i believe the expression is
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<agent_white> I hope someplace nice.
<pontiki> it's a farm
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<pontiki> a rather funny farm
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<shevy> where are the pigs
<pontiki> you're thinking of animal farm
<jhass> shevy: we are the pigs
<shevy> pontiki is the lead dolphin
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<shevy> I volunteer for the clown fish
<workmad3> shevy: stuck in finding nemo again?
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<shevy> hah
<jhass> again? doubt he ever left
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<shevy> I loved the sharks
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* pontiki ponders a lead dolphin
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<pontiki> heavy role, that
<hydra1> lol at topic
<shevy> wow
<shevy> perl 8 is out
<hydra1> ok, flame begins now
<benzrf> shevy: old news m8
<hydra1> perl sucks hard, use python
<pontiki> perl... *8*??
<shevy> hydra1 if I cut something from you, will you regrow it?
<benzrf> pontiki: yep!
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<benzrf> pontiki: havent you seen http://www.perl8.org
<hydra1> shevy: honestly ? no
<shevy> the legendary hydra
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<shevy> there is even a reallife animal called a hydra
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<pontiki> i had not
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<pontiki> but i get it
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<hydra1> yeah there is also a THC tool with that name
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<pontiki> oooo, new floyd album on spotify
<shevy> aren't they cute? so peaceful in sessile form on the surface ... -> goo.gl/EacO52
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<shevy> pontiki remembers the old stuff
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<pontiki> they look like little groots
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<shevy> pontiki hehe, a bit like fungi growing on plants
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<agent_white> shevy: Underwater palm trees!
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<hydra1> sorry guys
<hydra1> may I spam a bit from a friend
<hydra1> ?
<sevenseacat> no.
<hydra1> sad
<workmad3> hydra1: why doesn't your friend come on? :P
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<hydra1> it is about a network monitor thingy
<hydra1> you may be interested
<workmad3> apeiros: do you have your banstick ready? :)
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<hydra1> he founded the company recently, and I think its actually quite good
<hydra1> (spam alert: https://polygraph.io/)
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<GeorgesLeYeti> Hi
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<GeorgesLeYeti> I wanna make something like if File.atime(myfile) < 1.days.from_now
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<GeorgesLeYeti> but it returns ArgumentError: invalid date
<hydra1> oh shit
<hydra1> sorry guys xDDD lol, I thought I was on the security channel
<workmad3> hydra1: heh
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<Pip> Hi how to make irb interact have colors?
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<GeorgesLeYeti> just to avoid ab probleme, I just wanna delete a folder if all its files has a last access time superior to 1 day
<jhass> Pip: if you want a better irb you might be interested in pry, pryrepl.org
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<GeorgesLeYeti> ok found my problem sry
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<amooreniemi> hello all
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<atmosx> aloha
<shevy> the yeti
<shevy> atmosx, we have a yeti here
<matti> ;]
<shevy> and his father
<shevy> matti
<matti> We have sa shevy
<shevy> no
<matti> ;D
<atmosx> you do?
<shevy> GeorgesLeYeti
<matti> shevy: LTNS
<shevy> we also have Rambo here -> PierreRambaud
<shevy> <PierreRambaud> shevy, As you wish ;) I'm planning to call my son John :)
<GeorgesLeYeti> Hi shevy
<shevy> we have rich an interesting characters here
<atmosx> cool
<shevy> lol
* atmosx migrating ruby to 2.1.5
<shevy> atmosx when is your pharmaconos..is something exam?
<atmosx> Wednesday
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<shevy> have you finished learning the shikimate pathway yet :-)
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<atmosx> shevy: kinda
* matti executes shevy.i_miss_you_too('matti')
<shevy> atmosx how many OH groups does shikimic acid have
<atmosx> I can draw it, if requested, draw a couple of structures know where most things come from and I can talk about it... kinda
<atmosx> shevy: that's easy, 4
<shevy> hehe you did indeed learn it
<shevy> that reminds me
<atmosx> shevy: what's the diff between shikimate structure and gallic acid
<atmosx> that's a tricky one
<shevy> atmosx have you played with these molecules in the chimeira viewer?
<shevy> hey I don't even know how gallic acid looks like
<atmosx> shevy: nope, don't knwo what this is
<atmosx> shevy: gallotannin
<shevy> for those 3D molecules, to view them
<shevy> of a compound
<matti> ;/
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<atmosx> it's exactly like shikimic acid, but the phenyl is trivalent
<shevy> aha
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<atmosx> shit, I can't believe I'm talking like that
<atmosx> anyway
<shevy> hahaha
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<shevy> ok back to computers
<atmosx> I'm waiting for rvm to finish the migration and going get some sleep, get my head straight
<shevy> I am on 2.1.5 already
* atmosx loves computers
<atmosx> shevy: heh, how gems ?
<atmosx> gem list|wc -l ?
<atmosx> the actual number would be a -1 iirc
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<shevy> 296
<mikecmpbll> how would i channel the output from a process called with Kernel#system to a Logger instance?
<shevy> but 80% of these are tiny
<shevy> mikecmpbll can you use `` instead?
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<lupine> hmm, I'm trying to flock() a directory, but I'm getting Errno::EISDIR out of File.open(dir) and Dir.open(dir) lacks a #flock call
<mikecmpbll> shevy: yeah, i probably can. good point.
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<mikecmpbll> so how would I do that with ``?
<DylanJ> if you need more than ``
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<shevy> hmm
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<atmosx> mikecmpbll: open3
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<mikecmpbll> okidokes, checking it out
<shevy> require 'open3'
<shevy> cmd = 'git push heroku master'
<shevy> Open3.popen3(cmd) do |stdin, stdout, stderr, wait_thr|
<shevy> !
<shevy> I hate the 3 there
<mikecmpbll> never heard of this open3 in my life. nice
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<atmosx> mikecmpbll: just an idea from an old project of mine https://gist.github.com/atmosx/14acbe869e6ca00f61d2#file-monmypi-client-rb-L77
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<atmosx> shevy: there are 2 previous versions IIRC :-P
<atmosx> or maybe 3 (ruby starts counting from 0)!
<atmosx> that said migration is over, bb
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<mikecmpbll> atmosx: ty.
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<rpag_> there's popen4 too
<rpag_> as a gem
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<workmad3> hmm... I always thought Open3 and popen3 referred to the number of pipes it gave you access to
<workmad3> which makes me wonder what popen4 does :)
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<pontiki> so did i...
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<pontiki> stdin, stdout, stderr, and stdwtf
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<workmad3> oh wow... popen4 was written for compatibility with 1.8.2 and 1.8.4, by the looks of things
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<workmad3> and seems to be 'fork and provide you with stdin, stdout, stderr and pid'
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<pipework> I would think that the fourth thing would be an IO object, but meh
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<workmad3> pipework: I'd have thought/expected that too... meh indeed :)
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<rpag_> workmad3, i think its thing was being cross platform
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<shevy> lol
<shevy> stdwtf
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<shevy> I should ask on stackoverflow what that is
<ddv> Weekend. <3
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<shevy> no
<shevy> continue work
<scrogson> Hey folks...anyone ever used `|=` ?
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<tzero> nobody, ever. :P
<scrogson> ha
<shevy> scrogson not in production code
<shevy> my code is so simple that it does not need |=
<deepy> My code is so logical that I don't need operators
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<shevy> haha deepy
<shevy> if only
<scrogson> actually that's in C#
<scrogson> but I think it's equiv
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<ddv> yeah I used it some api calls for caching, or to set a default value somewhere
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<ddv> scrogson, u meant ||= ?
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<scrogson> and no, |=
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<ddv> elastic search is a mess btw
<workmad3> heh :) never seen someone do array unions like that before
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<workmad3> >> ["a", "b", "c"] | ["a", "d", "e"]
<eval-in__> workmad3 => ["a", "b", "c", "d", "e"] (https://eval.in/221479)
<scrogson> workmad3: ah, is that what it's doing?
<workmad3> scrogson: 'a |= b' is 'a = a | b'
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<workmad3> scrogson: on integers, | is a binary or... on arrays, | is overloaded as a set union operation
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<workmad3> scrogson: so that's essentially saying 'add this filter to the array of filters as long as it doesn't already exist in there'
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<scrogson> ah
<workmad3> scrogson: it would probably have made more sense if they'd just used a Set there though :)
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<jlebrech> does httparty have an option to have default params to send everytime?
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<shevy> hmm
<shevy> I have lots of files that are structured in like this way:
<shevy> require 'foo/bar.rb'
<shevy> now if I rename or move bar.rb away, I have to modify all those files
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<shevy> I guess I could create dummy .rb files that will have the proper path to those .rb files
<shevy> but that is so inelegant
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<centrx> shevy, Use ActiveSupport::Autoload
<centrx> I think you will like it a lot
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<hesco1> `rake test` seems to be complaining about 'Could not find rspec (>= 2.0.0)', but the only rspec I find is 2.14.7. What am I to make of that? https://gist.github.com/hesco/2d7dd757804cc73c1290
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<shevy> ACK
<shevy> def method_missing(i)
<shevy> return false
<shevy> is this enough to simulate LPC?
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<shevy> centrx that actually looks almost like an advanced way to require sub-files and sub-modules
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<shevy> I am in the middle of rewriting an ancient project... picking through the individual .rb files kinda stinks, adapting new paths also sucks... I guess I have about 200 more .rb files to go through ...
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<_riz_> googling syntax is hard - what does "->" mean, in the context of a Gemfile?
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<_riz_> ie, like this:
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<_riz_> gem 'my_gem', '->0.1.23'
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<centrx> _riz_, you mean ~> ?
<_riz_> no
<_riz_> I don't
<centrx> _riz_, then in the context of a Gemfile, it's a typo
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<_riz_> sonofabitch, the stupid font the browser chose made ~ and - look EXACTLY the same
<_riz_> sorry for the noise, and thanks
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<wald0> Vim users: how do you "browse" the code of for example a class when you need to read it?
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<wald0> a class that is from a generic lib/gem for example, not speciflcally your code
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<centrx> wald0, What do you mean by browse?
<centrx> wald0, Searching for something, use /
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<atmosx> hello
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<shevy> I thought you are sleeping atmosx!
<shevy> go back to bed!
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<atmosx> shevy: I tried wasn't possible
<atmosx> I'm starting now, ordered a pizza
<shevy> lol
<shevy> you sleep better after a pizza? :-)
<shevy> what kind of pizza anyway
<tzero> can someone explain this bundle/gem nonsense? -> https://bpaste.net/show/2f85319da075
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<atmosx> shevy: fungi with mozzarella
<wald0> centrx: let's say that im editing a code that contains "self.class_eval", and i say "wtf is class_eval?" so i want to "enter" on it to check what/how it is made
<atmosx> shit I can't see a Greek comedy show, because of the IP
<atmosx> blah assholes
<atmosx> brb
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<shevy> lol
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<tzero> bundle update and bundle install both report using version 0.16.1 of that gem, grabbed from github, but list shows 0.16
<tzero> 0.16 is installed to a later location in GEM_PATH, so wtf?
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<centrx> wald0, oh yeah there are tools for that, but I generally just use grep and the "Internet"
<wald0> for C with ctags i use ctrl + ] to go to the header declarations file, and ctrl + t to come back to my code
<jhass> tzero: gem list doesn't know about git sources
<jhass> that's entirely bundler magic
<wald0> centrx: yeah but im not very familiarized with ruby right now and so i need a fast way to "view" everything :)
<wald0> well, in normal using too but specially now :)
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<wald0> i found very un-productive to go out of your actual window/line/cursor/keyboard/anything to do anything
* wald0 is an optimizations sick
<hesco1> I'm thinking my failed depency issue relates to my rspec being in my path at /usr/bin/rspec, but that rake is looking at: /var/lib/gems/1.9.1/gems, where the gems it does not (yet?) complain are missing seem to be located.
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<wald0> so just a key == see the contents
<shevy> hey wald0
<shevy> I think I read your nick before
<tzero> jhass: hmm, I thought bundle:gem::yum:rpm
<hesco1> how would I ask gem to install somethere there?
<centrx> wald0, Use multiple windows with Conque to get a bash terminal within vim :)
<jhass> tzero: ?!
<wald0> shevy: yeah, i was there from time to time :) still learning and practicing a bit of ruby :)
<centrx> wald0, but that doesn't help with Ruby/Rails docs
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<shevy> hesco1 sounds like mixed up debian base system
<shevy> wald0 yeah! I just can not remember what you said back then hehe
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<shevy> you were not the KDE konsole guy or?
<shevy> or were you the french debian user ... hmm
<tzero> jhass: i.e. bundle just "wraps" gem, but apparently it does its own BS?
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<wald0> centrx: hum... there's not something like "ctrl + ]" that simply jumps to the .rb code that contains the definition of an external-to-my-code class ? just like i do it with ctags in c
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<wald0> shevy: i was talking mostly about making GUI applications with ruby and enlightenment toolkit :)
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<shevy> aaaaah YES
<shevy> now I remember!
<wald0> :)
<shevy> you got things to run too
<shevy> I did not
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<centrx> wald0, There must be, I just don't know about it
<jhass> tzero: yes and no. Bundler does use Rubygems as much as possible. But making git clones available in the $LOAD_PATH is nothing that's available in Rubygems (yet), so Bundler does it on its own
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<wald0> actually im in fact trying to use that to make a small application that shows to the user a list of tasks to do each day
<shevy> \o/
<shevy> as long as you keep on coming by to say hi on #ruby
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<wald0> centrx: sometimes i wonder how you* guys code... :), not talking about you of course, i just see that there's ton of devs that uses very unneficient ways to do things
<shevy> even though I think you are literally the only person here to use enlightenment
<wald0> actually i want a brain-interface that does just what i think
<wald0> but my mother wanted to compile me too soon
<shevy> lol
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<shevy> then the bootstrap process
<tzero> what I'd give for a reliable virtualenv-like environment in rubyland :(
<wald0> shevy: you were interested on making GUI applications too, from what i remember?
<shevy> tzero YOU CAN WRITE IT COME ON MAN
<shevy> wald0 well yes and no...
<jhass> tzero: bundler pretty much does that
<tzero> no, what the ruby ecosystem needs is definitely not more crap
<jhass> --path vendor/
<shevy> I think GUIs are awesome in general... but it is too much work to make them right now, e. g. in ruby-gnome
<jhass> won't touch any system paths
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<shevy> and then there is the www ... which ass-kicked the traditional GUIs
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<volty> go with qtruby
<shevy> today is the day of the short nicks here
<shevy> jhass, volty, shevy, wald0, tzero ... centrx is also ok even though he is +1
<agent_white> NO MOH
<shevy> omg what a huge nick
<agent_white> Thats what nickserv said
<atmosx> go with god
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<shevy> wald0 I think enlightenment is visually nice and interesting because it does things so differently; but when I look at those things I often wonder whether I can be productive
<shevy> like unity
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<shevy> how people can use this eludes me
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<volty> why don't you tell us something more, about unity -- what makes it productive, e.g.
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<wald0> shevy: alright, im trying to use that E toolkit and since it is very native theres a ton of work to do... by other side we just created a mywin.new("foo", "bar", "wombat") way to create a new window showing a list of 3 elements with these names
<tzero> not to troll, but after having been tossed into the chef/ruby pool headfirst over the last few months, it's been one yak shaving frustration after another. I must be missing something crucial, or doing something terribly wrong to not see the appeal of such a popular and powerful language
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<volty> (I use kde and know nothing about unity)
<wald0> so, im pretty convinced that doing a bit of work should be extremely (ruby)-easy to do middle-powerful interfaces in one-lines
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<volty> wald0: yes, you are right
<wald0> shevy: i personally have some hate to www... yeah it solves tons of today problems but is a f**** bloated unneficient dependency for do everything
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<volty> you can go also with meta or haml style (though it could be hard to think it out well)
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<hesco1> so shevy: any idea how I unmess it? Most things I did install from debian packages, but rspec I used the gem provider for.
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<wald0> volty, shevy: unfortunately there's not much ppl in #ruby that wants to make GUI applications, they only do WWW bloatstuff (not the ruby part, but the entire WWW topic)
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<centrx> SHOES!
<volty> anyway I find that showing whatever things could be better done using just a TreeWidget with two (or more) columns
<wald0> so c'mon guys and help there doing a f*ckin "i want a button, and i want an icon on it" singlelines GUI gem :) \o/
<godd2> The fewer lines of code your GUI app is, the more assumptions you're making
<volty> I feel that pythonists are more active with gui's. But I can't stand python
<wald0> alright, python has more gui-friends
<volty> godd2: of course, more defaults
<wald0> ruby is better than python? well, thats a trolling topic but in any case ruby has no gui friends lol
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<godd2> volty can't be "defaults" if there arent alternatives. cant be alternatives if there's too few lines of code
<tzero> should I be using only `gem` XOR only `bundle`?
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<volty> i was praying the last night for somebody to test a piece of code (6 lines) but it seems nobody has qt here
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<wald0> godd2: most of the times you dont want to have a 200-lines gui to just show a button, ppl normally want simple interfaces, and if they needs complex ones they should maybe do its own methods of specific-purposed-widgets
<wald0> volty: you need to move to EFL then :)
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<pontiki> tzero: it can be confusing; i do all my development using vagrant VMs, and so use bundle during development
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<jhass> tzero: unlikely
<pontiki> tzero: for my host system, i install gems directly
<jhass> tzero: inside a project with a Gemfile you typically only use bundler, else you use gem
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<wald0> volty: this is just a window (real gui desktop window) with a background and a button with a text, when you click on it it exits the app, small demo code
<wald0> shevy: ^
<pontiki> jhass: would you basically agree: bundle is for development mainly? of course with some applications you need it for deployment as well
<jhass> no
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<pontiki> do you use bundle in day to day operation?
<jhass> bundlers main intent is to ensure a consistent dependency environment across everything
<jhass> that does include development as well as all production machines
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<volty> wald0: i have qapp_main { qb = Qt::PushButton.new('Quit'); qb.connect('clicked()') { $qApp quit }; qb }
<pontiki> right, so i build a command line tool as a gem, using bundle, but then when i install it into my system, i am using gem install
<jhass> therefore it even does ship additional features that allow its usage in pretty much all deployment scenarios
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<jhass> I'd say that's distribution though, not deployment
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<pontiki> right, which is why i said it's used in deployment as well
<wald0> volty: shevy: and so about this lib of widgets you can have all (and more) of these ones: http://docs.enlightenment.org/stable/elementary/widgetslist.html
<wald0> volty: this sounds like in fact a very friendly code (what you pasted)
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<wald0> volty: i heard that QT is powerful and simple to code (by other side much more slow/bloated)
<volty> wald0: yes, qapp_main is a (very) small method of mine -- just to avoid rewriting Qt::Application.new(ARGV) ... $qApp.exec() -- for small apps
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<volty> what I need, and imo has to be done out-of-need, is layout out things programmatically (i hate predefined dialogs) in an easy way, let's say something like haml. In qt you can layout everything but i feel the code is bloated with all these Qt::...Layout.new etc etc
<wald0> volty: looking at google qt ruby, the intro page shows that is very similar to the code example that i gave you, which makes me think that could be possible to do it even more simple (for not complex interfaces of course)
<jhass> pontiki: so I guess it makes sense to differentiate between library and application development here, for the former it's just a development tool, for the later it's used always with the application
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<volty> qt is fast, but I'll give a look at urls you posted
<jhass> with the tools focus being on applicaton development
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<pontiki> jhass: better way to put it,yeah
<wald0> volty: which OS you are in?
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<volty> wald0: yes, starting with small methods, and going ahead till you (and if :) ) develop a new dsl for guis :)
<volty> kubuntu 14.04
<wald0> volty: so these EFL libs can be installed in windows, mac, linux, or even embedded devices, which is extremely good to make gui applications that "damnly works everywhere"
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<wald0> volty: just installed today in my co-worker laptop (ubuntu) the EFL packages from bodhi repository, and after to install "ffi-efl" gem the demo files on that gem worked directly :)
<volty> yes, but I need my already written qt code, should be nice if one day smb develops an odbc-like standard for guids
<volty> guis
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<wald0> what you mean by odbc-like?
<volty> a standard
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<suy> volty: you need this, I think: http://seanchas116.github.io/ruby-qml/
<volty> let's say tcl/tk-like pushbutton.new for all libs
<suy> volty: qml is a DSL for GUIs, and pretty nicely integrated with qt
<volty> suy: you use it ?
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<suy> (well, can be used without GUI, but...)
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<wald0> yeah, a standard is what i need: add-button, add-checkbox, add-tooltip, bang!
<suy> volty: trying it. Looks promising. Seems to work fine for a boring use case, not enterprise ready I guess. It's at 0.0.6 IIRC. :)
<wald0> volty: in fact, these EFL are so much complete that i could really do a fullset of standard like this (well, im not so experienced in ruby but should try/need it)
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<suy> That's the look of the language. Declarative, but you can hook with imperative easily. https://github.com/seanchas116/ruby-qml/blob/master/examples/fizzbuzz/main.qml
<volty> suy: i was about to start, but something discouraged me, can't remember now but think it was the lack of all the standard qt signals
<wald0> i may should start by brainstorming that kind of "standard behaviour"... like starting with buttons, what i expect when adding a button and what controls from it i need
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<volty> and I need ruby behind, otherwise i could go back. but i'm going to give it a deeper look anyway.
<wald0> volty: any idea of how/where i could write the concept before to start trying it?
<shevy> volty you'll be going back to haskell?
<volty> ahahah
<shevy> :-)
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<volty> never, they are not linked niether to qt
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<volty> wald0: i wouldn't advice that unless you are very proficiente with guis (in general), enlightment, and ruby
<wald0> buttons: it should change text, add a callback of method to run when clicked, mmh...
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<volty> i beleive in bottom-up design in these cases -- do it standard way (enlightment-bound) then refactor
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<wald0> volty: im very familiarized with the enlightnement libs (so i know pretty well what they can do) but not coded them much, and my ruby is level is novice :P
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<wald0> volty: i wouldnt advice me too but i damn-really need them
<wald0> another option is to write the gui apps in C / E-libs, but sigh... c...
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<volty> go & code, then stop & think, ... alternate
<shevy> lol
<wald0> i need now to do a very simple app, to show a list of daily tasks based on "every month do foo and bar, every week do wombat, and be able to print the list in PDF", ok... not hard to do in ruby im pretty convinced
<shevy> code & piss, eat & sex
<wald0> but how to do that on C ???
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<centrx> tweet about it in C with printf
<volty> as in any other language -- list of to-do things & methods for stroring & retrieving & filtering & showing
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<shevy> you love the & character
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<F__i__L> hey guyzz do you know any good resource about APIs security ??
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<F__i__L> book or .. ?
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<volty> & and shevy :)
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<atmosx> F__i__L: there's a blog post, that was featured on HN some time ago... wait I think I have it on pinboard
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<drizz> heh, rails in Scorpion: http://upl.io/rqcgw6
<atmosx> nah can't find it
<atmosx> I didn't save it
<atmosx> hehe
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<tzero> they misspelled Drive C: haha
<tzero> Local Dive
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<wald0> volty: im brainstorming the idea of the gui toolkit... but is confusing when you think "what could be the easiest way to declare its code?", im searching for the biggest simplicity and clarity-of-code
<wald0> volty: do you know any example or is there any doc "standard" about these things?
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<wald0> volty: shevy: what do you think about this way to define a gui? im pretty sure that can be more "clear" than this... hum.... http://paste.debian.net/131820/
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<wald0> i dont even know if this is correct-ruby syntax... damn
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<shevy> wald0 you mean agnostic of the underlying GUI?
<shevy> wald0 well in ruby there is often more than one way
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<shevy> For instance:
<shevy> win.text.set "Do you want to continue?"
<shevy> win.text = "Do you want to continue?"
<shevy> because we have aliases you can have both ways
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<shevy> you can also make use of <<
<shevy> button_ok.tooltip.add "You should continue, really"
<shevy> button_ok.tooltip << "You should continue, really"
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<wald0> yeah, agnostic, i want to brainstorm first a "standard gui usage" and then i want to try to write a small "lib" (gem?) to interface with the real gui gem/lib
<shevy> yeah
<shevy> I wanted to do this like 5 years ago as well
<shevy> I still have not caught up to my old knowledge of ruby-gnome :(
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<shevy> oh btw wald0
<shevy> also consider an additional syntax:
<zacts> hi rubyists
<godd2> wald0 if you want to write code which wraps Win32 API calls, look into FFI
<shevy> win = Window.new
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<shevy> win.text.set "Do you want to continue?"
<shevy> to become
<shevy> win = Window.new {
<shevy> text 'Do you want to continue'
<shevy> }
<shevy> this style is how _why originally wrote shoes
<wald0> godd2: im using ffi-efl :)
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<suy> You want to abstract a GUI API that is already an abstraction of other GUI APIs?
<wald0> godd2: well, wanting/trying to use it
<shevy> where is an abstraction?
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<godd2> also, wouldn't hurt to pass the new window to the block. Window.new { |win| win.title = "new window"; #other config... }
<suy> GTK or Qt abstract win32/xcb/whatever for example.
<wald0> suy: yes, because those FFI syntax is so DAMN confusing about pointers and references and stuff...
<wald0> i want to have the nightmare one time, but then reciclate objects that simply works
<wald0> "add me a button, call me something when i click to it"
<wald0> why computers dont speak human?
<godd2> well it's not for lack of trying
<godd2> natural language synthesis and interpretation is a "hard" problem in computing
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<suy> wald0: that's pretty much done in python with pyotherside and Qt. Is new, but somewhat mature. The converse in ruby is less mature, but is in that direction. See https://github.com/thp/qmlruby and https://github.com/seanchas116/ruby-qml.
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<wald0> suy: godd2: in short, i want to remove the max possible the complexity of use the gui (and still having the full control only-if-needed about the specific functions like changing a color, etc)
<godd2> wald0 if you want to make video games, you can check out the gosu gem. It abstracts away all that window creation stuff
<wald0> godd2: nah, just simple gui applications
<ruber> I use rbenv with GEM_HOME and just upgraded 2.1.2 to 2.1.5. Now my gems seem to require 2.1.2 even though they're outside any version directory.
<wald0> not complex "this is a full-featured photoshop" stuff, more like small gui apps
<ruber> Eg. /Users/me/.gem/bin/nokogiri: /Users/me/.rbenv/versions/2.1.2/bin/ruby: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
<godd2> wald0 what OS are you on?
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<suy> ruber: the gems might be in GEM_HOME, the binaries are?
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<havenwood> ruber: There should be a bot that just responds `rehash` if rbenv is mentioned.
<havenwood> ruber: Try chruby when you tire of shims: https://github.com/postmodern/chruby#readme
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<wald0> godd2: linux/debian
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<jaequery> hi guys, im new to ruby
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<rockdon> welcome
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<jaequery> is everyone using rackup?
<jaequery> is that required?
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<jhass> no
<pipework> jaequery: required for what
<jhass> bah
<shevy> I dont use rackup
<jhass> he needs to fix his client first
<shevy> oh he is gone
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<pipework> cool kids rackup their crappy rails apps
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<pontiki> crapup
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<wald0> damn, i want to know 110% of ruby syntax/possibilities so i can know perfectly how i can structure a good gui lib :/
<pipework> crackup
<pipework> wald0: Read sourcecode then?
<wald0> =_=
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<uptownhr> in ruby, how does gems like Mongoid handle multiple instances of it being loaded?
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<pipework> I mean, knowing how to perfectly structure code is pretty hard to do and the only thing I can think of that you can do in short order is know absolutely every detail about the implementation of the language you're using as well as the language specification itself.
<pipework> uptownhr: It doesn't.
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<jhass> uptownhr: what do you mean by "multiple instances"?
<pontiki> who has time for that?
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<uptownhr> jhass: like if i'm creating Site.rb, Page.rb
<pipework> Even if you do manage to require two versions, chances are that you'll have a bad time.
<uptownhr> both of the files require in Mongoid
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<rpag_> require only requires a file once
<pipework> uptownhr: Are you talking about `require` with two versions of Mongoid or requiring mongoid in two files?
<uptownhr> requireing mongoid in two files
<wald0> i have a class that creates a window, which has a @button declaration that creates a button, if i do "win = MyWin.new", how i access to the @button element from "win"?
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<pipework> uptownhr: That works fine. Require keeps a list of all required files.
<jhass> uptownhr: try prepending p to the require calls
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<pipework> uptownhr: require the same thing to your heart's content.
<jhass> you'll notice that it returns first true then false
<pipework> In fact, require your dependencies everywhere they're needed.
<uptownhr> jhass: how about the Mongoid.load!("./mongoid.yml")
<pipework> Be a good chum.
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<godd2> wald0 you need to make an attr_reader inside the Window class.
<uptownhr> should that be somewhere else?
<wald0> pipework: yeah but actually im not even familiarized with ruby :/ that's what i meant, i learned it but not practiced
<pipework> uptownhr: That's venturing into implementation.
<uptownhr> pipework: yea. what is the best way to implement?
<pontiki> pipework: i filed two defects on that this week and sent PRs to fix them
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<pontiki> two different gems
<jhass> uptownhr: I don't know mongoid, I'd imagine it just reopens the connection and discards the old one
<godd2> wald0 or at least a getter method. def button; @button; end
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<towski_> I need a fast way to get a unique hash for an array of ints
<towski_> [1,2,3] vs [1,2,3,4]
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<pipework> uptownhr: If you're calling a method in Mongoid already, you aren't implementing it. Look at how it works.
<jhass> towski_: what hash properties do you need?
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<godd2> wald0 by default, all instance variables are private to an object. you have to explicitly make them readable or writable
<pipework> uptownhr: You might want to memoize the result in an object that you can safely share between the pages.
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<uptownhr> what is memoize?
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<towski_> doesn't matter how long
<godd2> uptownhr memoization is caching the result of an expensive calculation so you only have to do it once
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<wald0> godd2: good! the getter worked! i think that ruby is pretty able to allow me to do a wrapper of that gui lib to make things much more easy :)
<pipework> uptownhr: Look up what memoization is.
<jhass> towski_: length is only one property, not the most significant even
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<pipework> Helpful thing to read and fully understand.
<wald0> "ruby has the powa"
<towski_> right I don't really have any
<towski_> it's for caching
<jhass> towski_: elaborate
<uptownhr> so fyi: Mongoid.load!("./mongoid.yml"), initializes the mongodb connection
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<towski_> i am caching [1,2,3] versus [1,2,3,4]
<towski_> so they key just needs to be unique
<towski_> for the array
<jhass> towski_: does it need to be consistent across multiple ruby processes for example
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<towski_> yes
<pipework> uptownhr: Doesn't really matter to us. You'll want to see if you need to handle memoizing the connection stuff yourself, or if mongoid handles it so you dont' need to worry about it and can use the connections from both classes.
<towski_> good point
<shevy> wald0 well what I showed you above, that in total should cover 90% of the possibilities
<pipework> You may or may not want to separate initializing the connections into a separate piece of code.
<unholycrab> im using Logger and it is extremely slow to output data to logs... it seems to have hte output backed up and spits it all out periodically
<unholycrab> but i want to be able to monitor the logs in real time
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<jhass> towski_: how collision free does it need to be (how many different cache keys do you need)
<uptownhr> pipework: got it
<pipework> unholycrab: use a better loging solution.
<pipework> logging too
<uptownhr> pipework: does active record handle memoizing it for you?
<pipework> uptownhr: It handles setting up a connection pool after you give it credentials, yeah.
<towski_> well there will be at most like 100 keys right now
<towski_> i guess up to 1000
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<godd2> >> def memoized; $stored_value ||= rand; end; [memoized, memoized]
<eval-in__> godd2 => [0.7384058544898499, 0.7384058544898499] (https://eval.in/221532)
<pipework> towski_: Don't optimize prematurely.
<pipework> There are fantastic profiling and benchmarking tools that help you find out what's important to optimize.
<jhass> godd2: don't use a global there
<godd2> jhass don't use them in general or dont use them on the bot?
<pipework> Or generally ever.
<pipework> godd2: In your code.
<towski_> actually I could just join it into a string and get a hash of that
<jhass> godd2: not in general, especially not for memoization
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<godd2> I was only showing an example of memoization
<agent_white> memorization, you fergaht the r
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<jhass> towski_: with that you mean String#hash? that's as stable as Array#hash, it's only guranteed inside a ruby process
<pipework> It was an example of using a global with memoization. Just as long as you don't actually think using globals is a smart idea to do unless it's the only choice at all.
<unholycrab> pipework: any suggestion?
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<wald0> shevy: the {} thing? yeah but hum, im thinking about the possibility to set things in "any moment", like win.button.text_set "foo"
<jhass> godd2: you're teaching, good examples matter
<towski_> well use like sha
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<jhass> oh, you said fast :P
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<shevy> wald0 yeah, all you need is the original setter method, and then the aliases towards it
<towski_> :)
<jhass> towski_: you probably should read through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function
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<pipework> unholycrab: I'm familiar with logstash not sucking.
<unholycrab> pipework: i just want to output to a flat file for now
<unholycrab> so i can debug my scripts
<unholycrab> but i like how Logger puts everything in a standard format with log levels and a date stamp, etc
<towski_> well on a scale of 1 to suck, how bad is sha1 hashing the string
<towski_> the string at least will be unique
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<jhass> #inspect and #to_s are representations, I don't think there are any gurantees for them to be stable
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<jhass> avoid working on representations
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<jhass> if you have the real data at hand
<pipework> I have used #to_s for rendering objects in different representations though.
<pipework> dat erb
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<jhass> if you have to convert, try to find a serialization
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<pipework> I've even had some fun with using #to_s(format)
<pipework> But then it requires a default to use in Erb as cleanly as I'd like. :(
<wald0> will continue brainstorming in house, office closed!
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<wald0> see ya! shevy, godd2, etc*
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<godd2> lol good luck :)
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<livinded> I'm making HTTPS requests to our API and 3 out of the 79 requsts are failing with this stack trace but I haven't been able to track down any useful information. Not sure if it's a bug in ruby or what's going on. https://gist.github.com/jrozner/2080a2bd6ea35637e51c
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<pipework> livinded: I think, but only glanced, that something closed the connection before sending what you expect.
<DTSCode> is there a particular reason why almost every ruby tutorial i find says ruby is the best for any task?
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<pipework> DTSCode: Because it's a general purpose scripting and programming language.
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<DTSCode> pipework, i get that, but its not neccesarily better. im just venting about how people parrot it as the best language ever. not saying its not good, but its not a one size fits all
<livinded> pipework: alright. I'll take a look at the API code
<pipework> DTSCode: People like langauges they are excited about.
<DTSCode> meh... good point
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<pipework> I think the language itself is fantastic if you don't mind class-based OO and the whole no type checking at compile or runtime.
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<zacts> pipework: I'm at ch 3 of the black book 2nd edition
<livinded> pipework: I don't see anything on the API side that would close the connection before sending back the data
<pipework> zacts: Good sir!
<pipework> livinded: I don't either, sorry. :(
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<pipework> I've got to get some lunch, but if I have time I'll keep looking and try to help.
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<zacts> so is rubinius ok to use for production code? or should I still use mruby?
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<pipework> zacts: lol
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<pipework> you're learning ruby using mruby?
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<pipework> zacts: The rbx team probably thinks rubinius is production-ready. If you trust them, then sure. I like jruby.
<pipework> zacts: ruby and mruby aren't the same thing.
<zacts> oh ok!
<pipework> MRI is the ruby written in C and maintained by the ruby core team.
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<pipework> Some of us call it cruby, knowing that other rubies are written in c-ish languages.
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<zacts> ok
<havenwood> zacts: mri is the same thing as cruby, or just ruby. it's the reference implementation. the author of cruby is now working on mruby, but it's its own thing.
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<zacts> I think I confused the 'm' in both of those, sorry
<pipework> We used to call cruby yarv when 1.9 happened because mri was the always interpreted vm for 1.8
<pipework> But now we no longer call it yarv at all.
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<sandelius> is it useful to freeze a regexp object?
<pipework> sandelius: Does it have any possibility of being modified?
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<pipework> Do you want to prevent that?
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<sandelius> pipework no It's actually a constant already
<pipework> sandelius: So?
<pipework> Objects that constants point to can be modified.
<pipework> Warnings are only raised if a new object is assigned to a constant. You can still mutate the object in place.
<sandelius> pipework keep it down, someone might here you that we can modify constants ;)
<sandelius> hear
<sandelius> pipework does it gain any performance?
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<pipework> sandelius: 'gain'?
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<sandelius> pipework do we "save" anything by freezing objects like that? performance wise
<b3itz> i need to count from 0 to [nums]...how do i loop nums times?
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<pipework> sandelius: I don't know if the use of the object is faster, honestly. You could benchmark it.
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<jhass> b3itz: nums.times do |i|
<sandelius> pipework that a'll do. get back in a few
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<b3itz> jhass: cool.. whats the |i| do?
<jhass> b3itz: read up on blocks and Fixnum#times
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<b3itz> oh, do i times
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<b3itz> how can i now implement what number im on, into the variable.. ex: i have 2 sides, loop through twice making side1 side2
<b3itz> something like side[i] = nums[0]
<jhass> b3itz: ? provide more context
<pipework> b3itz: !explain
<helpa> b3itz: Please explain your problem better as we are having trouble understanding what you mean. A Gist (http://gist.github.com) is always helpful!
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<b3itz> so basically what im doing is reading in a line like r 2 4 - determining that its a rectangle with sides 2 and 4
<b3itz> so i need to see how many sides they gave me
<b3itz> nums = line.scan(/\d+/).map(&:to_i) data_points = nums.count
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<b3itz> then store each side
<b3itz> like side1 and side 2
<b3itz> lines 84-94ish
<shevy> b3itz
<shevy> remember to save with .rb ending on the gist
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<jhass> please, 1) gist with syntax highlighting 2) use two spaces soft tabs 3) use underscore_names
<b3itz> sorry shevy i never remember
<havenwood> b3itz: get rid of all those `return`s
<jhass> ^ and that
<b3itz> i know i know i know
<b3itz> thats the least of my worries right now
<shevy> b3itz also you can simplify a lot there
<shevy> take this line:
<shevy> if line.include?("S") || line.include?("s")
<shevy> you check whether it has S or s right?
<jhass> b3itz: if you want help you should make it easy to understand your programs. All of those things help that tremendously
<shevy> in that case you could simply downcase the line and check for "s" only
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<havenwood> b3itz: snake_case method names, not headlessCamelCase
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<sandelius> pipework seems like freeze is faster when iterating 10000 times with gsub but slower with less iterations
<havenwood> b3itz: get rid of excessive parens
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<shevy> hehe
<b3itz> i understand all these things as you guys have been hounding me, his is in an early stage and due tomorrow so im not worried about all that for my sake right now
<b3itz> ill go back and fix those if i have time
<shevy> we worry for our sake!
<b3itz> i need to get it to work first
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<b3itz> >.<
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<shevy> the clarity is diluted by obscurity
<jhass> b3itz: no
<shevy> less code achieving the desired result is a good thing
<havenwood> b3itz: use #start_with? instead of #include? if you want to know if it starts with
<jhass> using a proper style is a requirement for getting it to work
<jhass> make it a habit as early as possible
<shevy> btw b3itz the puts " " seem not necessary or?
<shevy> you can replace them with a simple puts
<b3itz> havenwood: doesn't matter if its at the beginning or not
<shevy> or you do the shevy style; alias e puts
<pipework> sandelius: Oh neat. About how much faster?
<b3itz> thanks shevy
<havenwood> b3itz: so it might be?: 3 4 S
<shevy> as you can see b3itz, we are totally distracted by all other things
<b3itz> havenwood: could be.. but probably not
<b3itz> lol i can tell shevy
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<b3itz> tearing my shit apart
<havenwood> b3itz: just fix it real quick
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<shevy> nums.times do |i|
<b3itz> so i have an array called nums with 0-3 data points.. i need to loop through and store them
<shevy> line 89 b3itz
<shevy> is confusing
<shevy> can you explain it
<b3itz> the nums.times?
<shevy> yes that is line 89
<b3itz> <jhass> b3itz: nums.times do |i|
<sandelius> pipework with less iterations it's almost the same, no-freeze is ms faster. and more iterations freeze is ms faster. not by much
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<shevy> b3itz ok where is the "end"?
<b3itz> thats the part im trying to figure out
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<jhass> b3itz: that was provided without knowing what you need, you described the solution you think you need, not your problem
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<shevy> b3itz you can use {} rather than do/end if "do" confuses you
<b3itz> <b3itz> so i have an array called nums with 0-3 data points.. i need to loop through and store them
<b3itz> i just typed it
<shevy> ok you need to wake up your brain again
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<havenwood> b3itz: use two spaces to indent. you can set most text editors to two-space soft tabs, so the tab key does two spaces.
<b3itz> undefined method times
<shevy> nonono
<shevy> you got a wrong thing then
<b3itz> thanks havenwood
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<shevy> >> "5".times
<eval-in__> shevy => undefined method `times' for "5":String (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/221535)
<shevy> >> 5.times
<eval-in__> shevy => #<Enumerator: 5:times> (https://eval.in/221536)
<shevy> there b3itz
<b3itz> i need to count the numbers in the array.. then create side1 side2 etc
<shevy> b3itz a big advantage in reducing the characters and amount of code is that it is also much easier to spot errors
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<b3itz> i dont understand your point shevy
<b3itz> oh
<b3itz> ints vs string
<shevy> so how does your Array look like?
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<shevy> yeah
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<pipework> sandelius: Oh cool. I often use freeze before it's necessary. But I use it like this: SOME_CONSTANT=%w|some array of strings that should not be changed|.map(&:freeze).freeze
<shevy> String does not by default have the .times() method
<b3itz> shevy: [4 4]
<pipework> That way not only are they not changeable, developers know that's some serious shit and not to modify it.
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<shevy> you could add it but please default to standard ruby and either convert your string into an integer or use something else
<shevy> b3itz you must have forgotten a , ?
<jhass> b3itz: what should happen if the input is r 1 2 3
<shevy> [4,4]
<sandelius> pipework paranoid :D
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<shevy> b3itz can you update https://gist.github.com/anonymous/96426bd35c8a5663ce2b and also save it with a .rb end?
<pipework> sandelius: Or just aware of coworkers and the terrible things they do.
<b3itz> shevy: yes i did
<pipework> :p
<b3itz> jhass: it needs to explode
<sandelius> pipework touché
<shevy> well at that link it is still a .txt
<b3itz> yes hold on
<zacts> pipework: so would you say I should read poodr before or after metaprogramming ruby, and why? :-)
<jhass> b3itz: so you know how many items there are depending on the type
<zacts> just so I can plan the book I read after this one I'm reading now
<shevy> excellent we got colours now, havenwood will be all excited \o/
<pipework> zacts: After because you can poodr better when you know how ruby's object model works.
<b3itz> jhass: no, i know how many times it SHOULD be.. but it wont always be correct
<shevy> ok where is the error now?
* pipework likes the poodr, though it's not a nomicon, just a great read that contains a lot of awesome things to think about.
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<zacts> pipework: poodr after metaprogramming? or poodr after black book?
<jhass> b3itz: that's enough to abort if that's not the case and safely extract them afterwards
<pipework> zacts: black > meta > poodr
<zacts> cool
<zacts> thanks
<havenwood> shevy: headlessCamelWhitespaceUnnecessaryParensExplicitReturnsSTDERR.putsWithEmptyStringGaaaaaaaah
<shevy> lol
<shevy> btw b3itz I noticed something
<zacts> so metaprogramming is writing code that writes code?
<zacts> basically?
<shevy> your indent is not consistent on line 125 to 136
<b3itz> jhass: i dont know what youre getting at
<b3itz> thanks shevy
<jhass> b3itz: read the first item, the type
<jhass> branch of that
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<jhass> then you can count how many more items you have and you know how many you should have
<jhass> if that matches you can safely extract
<pipework> zacts: Generally it's that. It's something that dynamically causes something to do or become or exist as something.
<jhass> if it doesn't you want to abort
<shevy> I think havenwood really does not like camelCasedMethods
<shevy> lol pipework
<b3itz> jhass: exactly
<shevy> that was the most philosophical statement you ever wrote here
<zacts> ok, and what is the main advantage of that? how does it simplify your code?
<b3itz> but... im not sure how to loop through x amount of times where x is the number of arguments in the array
<jhass> b3itz: so all you need is Array#size and Array#[]
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<zacts> and then, I'm back to reading some more.
<jhass> b3itz: there's no sane solution using a loop here
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<b3itz> jhass: ok gimme a second to comprehen
<b3itz> d
<b3itz> or lack there of
<jhass> b3itz: btw. don't use single letter variable names
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<shevy> oh we get into personal preferences now
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<b3itz> jhass: ok so i have nums.size returning the amount of data points
<pipework> Actually, it's not just a preference.
<apeiros> "don't use single letter variables" is hardly "personal" preference anymore :-)
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<shevy> most definitely it is
<b3itz> yeah the single letters were temporary
<pipework> Some tools already use single-letter variables, which is annoying, but egh.
<a13x212> is there an easy way to check if variable is set, not nil and not empty?
<pipework> Which means you might have some conflicting code.
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<pipework> Temporal need aside, use descriptive variables. Your editor probably has some support for completion.
<shevy> a13x212 all 3? what means not empty precisely, you mean on a string?
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<b3itz> jhass: now say i have a size of 2.. i need to make 2 variables.. should i hard code it?
<jhass> yes
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<a13x212> shevy, var = ""
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<shevy> ok a String
<jhass> a13x212: if you need to do that there's something very wrong with your code
<shevy> where was .blank? again?
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<jhass> a13x212: if you're not certain that a local variable exists that is
<zacts> cool, bbl
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<apeiros> the escalation is probably: personal preference -> community convention -> best practice
<graft> .blank? is in rails only i think
<shevy> apeiros and how do you determine best practice?
<apeiros> best practice is a consensus
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<apeiros> it's not you or me who define it. it's something which grows from conventions.
<graft> (said in his best batman voice)
<shevy> lol graft
<shevy> I pictured it more in a Darth Vader voice
<shevy> (with the heavy breathing)
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<graft> maybe more like... "You don't know the POWER of best practices. it is useless to resist them."
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<apeiros> resistance is futile
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<eam> and of course remember that half of all best practices aren't actually best practices
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<pipework> And the other half aren't often even practiced.
<shevy> I thought we had established a consensus just now!
<gsd> i'm hiring rails devs in los angeles - would it be ok if share a link to our careers page?
<shevy> would be better for the rails channel
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<gsd> well, i should say i'm hiring sr. software engineers - rails is a nice to have
<gsd> but ruby is a must
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<gsd> i also welcome feedback on the job postings that i wrote too
<eam> like 65 and older?
<pipework> gsd: Sure.
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<pipework> Just probably don't repeat the link too often. People dont' like being badgered.
<shevy> eam at that age you'll go to COBOl
<gsd> of course
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<havenwood> Señor developer
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<gsd> it's on github and stackoverflow too - though, surprisingly, not many are biting
<gsd> i'd have expected more from stackoverflow
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<eam> try craigslist
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<b3itz> how do i do a file.write(array) and have it come out like [12, 45, 67]?
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<apeiros> b3itz: array.inspect
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<b3itz> thanks
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<Cat_1> Probably an aside, I have multiple tables labeled *_RECORDS, there's like 30 of them. I want to do a query across all those tables. Does anyone know how to execute such a thing in an Oracle database?
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<Cat_1> besides writing a massive JOIN
<jhass> Cat_1: #sql ?
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<havenwood> gsd: I think it'd be better to have a more concise about us: Asset Avenue is a crowdfunded real estate investment site. We're a start up in Los Angeles and we're growing!
<havenwood> gsd: "What we need" and "What we're looking for" seem redundant.
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<havenwood> gsd: I don't like the emphasis on 3-years, 5-years, of doing stuff.
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<gsd> why?
<gsd> just curious
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<pipework> Which job description are we looking at on the page?
<josephndenton> gsd: Still recruiting for those positions, yeah? Had any luck?
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<havenwood> gsd: In these polyglot days asking for years in a particular framework is kinda silly.
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<gsd> josephndenton: yup - still recruiting. takes time to find folks. there's more demand than supply.
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<Cat_1> What are you looking for?
<pipework> Cat_1: People to employ.
<pipework> And cookies.
<havenwood> gsd: You mention Cucumber in one of them. Are you using it?
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<Cat_1> I like how people say they want 5 years of a framework that's only been out for 3 years really, and they want production use.
<havenwood> gsd: If you're not, I'd suggest dropping it from the ad. Many of us aren't fond of it.
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<gsd> Cat_1: honestly, we're just looking for culture fit first and then all-around good engineers.
<Cat_1> @havenwood you aren't fond of your tests taking forever? :)
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<havenwood> The degree or equivalent experience is redundant with five+ years in particular languages.
<havenwood> How could you possibly not have equivalent?
<Cat_1> What's the website?
<Cat_1> Might be interested
<pipework> I don't know if I agree about the equivalency.
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<pipework> You probably just want to filter by one or the other, but don't think of degrees as something you can compare years of experience to.
<gsd> Cat_1: if you're in the los angeles area, i'd be happy to give you a ring today. shoot me over your resume: joshua@assetavenue.com
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<Cat_1> Not in LA, currently in DC :)
<gsd> we would prefer a degree - but i also don't want to rule out someone who doesn't have a degree - many great engineers just don't have them
<graft> i don't think degrees and experience are equivalent
<Cat_1> Degree in physics! It's actually come in pretty handy
<graft> <- degree in biology
<havenwood> <- philosophy and law
<gsd> one of my best engineers has a law degree!
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<graft> anyone in here actually have a cs degree, heh
<benzrf> <- degree in sitting on my butt whilst reading about math
<graft> i guess all those people are in #lisp
<cajone> graft: not all of them ;)
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<gsd> Cat_1: why don't you move to los angeles? :p
<havenwood> Cat_1: LA is great.
<pipework> LA isn't as terrible as some places.
<gsd> way to really sell it
<gsd> haha
<havenwood> pipework: Now you're just being reasonable!
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<giuseppesolinas> hello
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<havenwood> giuseppesolinas: hi
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<yourrulessuck> hi
<giuseppesolinas> I'm trying to get sass to include bourbon, I'm using sass as a node package but I'd like to ask if it is necessary to tell to sass where bourbon is
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<graft> ok, so here's an architecture question: I have a model which I'd like to be able to receive data either from a text file or from a database... seems like the best way to do this would be to parse the text-file into some sort of in-memory throwaway database so i can have a unified interface for my model to consume
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<giuseppesolinas> is there any config file I need to edit?
<havenwood> graft: humans are editing the text file?
<graft> havenwood: err, let's say no. it's basically a flat file representing the same information as might exist in the db
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<graft> i.e., assume for convenience it's well-formed, if that's your worry
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<havenwood> graft: Ruby has all sorts of interesting things built in, like YAML::DBM, YAML::Store, PStore, etc.
<graft> yeah! this is what i'm talking about
<graft> i dunno any of those :|
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<havenwood> graft: there are a variety of different ways to serialize and saving to disk transactionally, or not
<havenwood> s/saving/save
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<yourrulessuck> sorry to bother you
<yourrulessuck> but what do you recommend to a noob learning ror
<havenwood> graft: Daybreak is a fun one that doesn't ship with Ruby: http://propublica.github.io/daybreak/
<yourrulessuck> im currently trying codeschool
<havenwood> yourrulessuck: I'd suggest focusing on Ruby and not Rails. :)
<havenwood> yourrulessuck: But for Rails, try #rubyonrails
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<yourrulessuck> ok
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<n_blownapart> hello why is it that in a proc, how is the scope different so that you cannot use pipe variable |n| on line 11 ? thanks: http://pastie.org/9719902
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<jhass> pretty sure you can
<jhass> note most people use Kernel#proc to construct procs
<pipework> >> Proc.new {|t| puts t}.call('hi')
<eval-in__> pipework => hi ... (https://eval.in/221564)
<pipework> works for me
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<n_blownapart> jhass: thanks one second
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<n_blownapart> thanks pipework ...
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<graft> havenwood: if i'm not interested in persistence, do you think this is all just overkill and i should just stick with Enumerable and a bunch of hashes? i think what i really want is the relational capacity, which i'm not sure these options favor
<havenwood> graft: why are you doing it? speed? something else?
<n_blownapart> when I add |n| to line 11 I get : `block in proc_incrementer': undefined method `+' for nil:NilClass (NoMethodError)
<pipework> n_blownapart: You know why, right? Did you pass anything into call?
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<havenwood> graft: have you considered memcached?
<graft> havenwood: i'm not clear on what my motives are... basically, the problem is: data usually comes in text files, and it would be faster and easy to interact with it in a DB usually, but it's not always possible. so i'd like to use models that CAN query from a db if available, but can also query from the text file if necessary
<n_blownapart> no pipework .. a bit confused
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<pipework> n_blownapart: What do you think happens when you call a proc that takes an argument without an argument?
<pipework> >> Proc.new{|arg|}.arity
<eval-in__> pipework => 1 (https://eval.in/221565)
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<bricker`work> pipework: Depends
<pipework> >> Proc.new{|arg| puts arg}.call
<eval-in__> pipework => ... (https://eval.in/221567)
<pipework> bricker`work: For a Proc?
<josiah14> I know about Array#partition -> how do I get the same behavior but stop searching on the first match?
<jhass> pipework: technically a lambda is a proc
<bricker`work> pipework: >> -> { }.is_a?(Proc)
<josiah14> All I'm really looking for is something that will allow me to grab the matched value and delete it out of the array without needing to do another lookp
<bricker`work> >> -> { }.is_a?(Proc)
<eval-in__> bricker`work => true (https://eval.in/221568)
<josiah14> lookup*
<pipework> jhass: I guess...
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<bricker`work> huehuehuehuee
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<pipework> It's a Proc in that it's a subclass of the Proc class.
<jhass> mmh, no, actually it isn't
<pipework> In the same way a Class is a souped up subclass of Class and Module
<jhass> >> -> {}.class == Proc
<eval-in__> jhass => true (https://eval.in/221570)
<pipework> jhass: ancestors says so.
<pipework> >> -> {}.class.ancestors
<eval-in__> pipework => [Proc, Object, Kernel, BasicObject] (https://eval.in/221571)
<jhass> >> -> {}.lambda?
<eval-in__> jhass => true (https://eval.in/221572)
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<jhass> >> proc {}.lambda?
<eval-in__> jhass => false (https://eval.in/221573)
<n_blownapart> pipework: sorry I don't understand it in terms of the rescue method and #arity
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<jhass> it actually is a instance of Proc itself with a flag set
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<pipework> >> ->{}.instance_of? Proc
<eval-in__> pipework => true (https://eval.in/221574)
<n_blownapart> pipework: ok another one of those cryptic explanations of procs.. har thanks pipework
<pipework> well that's interesting, but not very nice because ambiguous
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<pipework> n_blownapart: It's intentionally not cryptic.
<n_blownapart> pipework: thanks looking forward to it.
<giuseppesolinas> how do I install a gem in order to be able to use it globally in the command line?
<pipework> giuseppesolinas: gem install
<jhass> giuseppesolinas: that depends on your ruby setup
<giuseppesolinas> pipework, no, that doesn't work is there any option like --add-to-path or something?
<havenwood> giuseppesolinas: if it doesn't already work we can probably help you set up your path
<havenwood> giuseppesolinas: what is your os/distro? how'd you install ruby or did it come with?
<pipework> giuseppesolinas: It's all about the kind of PATH.
<giuseppesolinas> mac osx, ruby was already here in the first place
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<giuseppesolinas> ruby 2.0.0p481 (2014-05-08 revision 45883) [universal.x86_64-darwin14]
<ddv> giuseppesolinas, install homebrew and then install something like rbenv
<pipework> Or better yet, don't install rbenv. Install chruby and ruby-install
<pipework> no one likes shims.
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<ddv> works fine for me
<havenwood> brew install ruby chruby
<havenwood> ddv: but chruby is better :)
<pipework> ruby-install and chruby work better for everyone.
<josiah14> did my question go unnoticed?
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<ddv> josiah14, yes
<pipework> It was noticed, but I didn't have the answer.
<jhass> ^
<josiah14> I want to do something similar to partition on an array, but I want the search to stop on the first match
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<pipework> Probably find the index of the item and then just do array[0..that_index]
<josiah14> is there an easy way to do this or am I just going to have to grap the index of the first match and the delete manually from the array?
<pipework> well, why not just get a subset of the array? Why deletE?
<graft> josiah14: you want something like #reject?
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<pipework> graft: No, that doesn't stop on the first match
<josiah14> reject doesn't give me back the matched value
<josiah14> what I have is 2 mathematical sets of data (that meaning, every item in the set is uniq)
<pipework> josiah14: Array#index is what you want.
<josiah14> I need to check to see if there are any items in set a common to set b
<giuseppesolinas> so, I don't know what chruby is about apart from installing different versions, I just need to get bourbon running
<pipework> The rest is just getting a subset of the array.
<jhass> #delete_at(#index) if I got that right but in a single operation, I don#t think it exists
<josiah14> but I need a custom matcher because the format of the data is different between sets
<pipework> giuseppesolinas: The problem is that your OSX ruby isn't as good as a recent ruby.
<havenwood> giuseppesolinas: chruby just properly sets up your environment variables to point at the Ruby you want to use
<graft> josiah14: ary2.map(&:convert_to_ary1) & ary1?
<pipework> giuseppesolinas: So go install homebrew then brew install chruby ruby-install, then use ruby-install to installyour preferred ruby.
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<volty> i would stay with pre-installed ruby on an os x
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<pipework> I would ignore that advice.
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<pipework> You definitely want the latest ruby security patches.
<volty> not all people have time to exercise hackering. Btw I do not usually ignore other's experience
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<pipework> And people should probably just ignore advice that suggests they don't use updated software that contains security fixes for major vulnerabilities.
<josiah14> well, if I wrote a select to pull out things that matched, it would look like set1.select {|x| findNextIdInHugeXML(xmlReader) == x.strip!.delete("\"").split("|").first} if that gives you any idea of what I'm up against
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<n_blownapart> http://pastie.org/9719902 pipework would you explain the scope of 'n = 0' on lines 2 and 10 -- how they differ?
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<josiah14> graft: ^^^^
<volty> It's not about updated software but about plain new version. You fail to catch the difference.
<pipework> n_blownapart: Like what do you mean? They're using the benefits of being a closure.
<volty> It's stability vs supposed security
<pipework> volty: You don't know what you're talking about. Feel free to prattle on.
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<pipework> But, I, for one, will upgrade my rubies that I use to the latest security patchlevels as soon as they're released.
<jhass> n_blownapart: the one on line 2 ceases to exist after incrementor returns, since there's no reference to the closure that captured it anymore
<volty> pipework: I find you quite hysteric. Get an easy. Give your advice and lets stop here.
<jhass> n_blownapart: the one on line 10 lives on as long as x lives on
<pipework> volty: My advice is for people to not listen to people who give bad advice. :)
<volty> some people have time, but some do not.
<havenwood> giuseppesolinas: here's an example of setting up the latest stable ruby with chruby: https://gist.github.com/havenwood/ba31f67c1d89ac236400
<n_blownapart> jhass interesting thanks. pondering that. thanks pipework
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<pipework> My bet is that the other people here who help others have this guy on ignore.
<pipework> havenwood: So, should we leave it to fate to arrange our meeting at rubyconfs?
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<cypheon> hey
<volty> you are more sticky than a crab :)
<havenwood> pipework: ooh, reminds me i need to get a train ticket!
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<pipework> havenwood: Do that, it would be a shame if I spent all of rubyconf looking for you to either say hello or hide.
<cypheon> How to manually put the files of the bootstrap on a rails app?
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<jhass> cypheon: Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ help
<cypheon> okay
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<pipework> jhass: Added that as a helpa factoid. :D
<pipework> !identify
<graft> josiah14: is xmlReader your set2?
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<helpa> Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ help
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<jhass> !identify
<jhass> it still ignores me :(
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<pipework> Radar: You should add jhass. He's a really good helper and a smart guy.
<tzero> +1
<pipework> Radar: He contributed or contributes(?) to diaspora and other stuff.
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<josiah14> graft: xmlReader streams data in from set two, which is a set larger than what my ram can hold
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<jhass> pipework: still doing maintenance stuff
<josiah14> if that gives you any idea about the size
<jhass> what's the reasoning for having a whitelist on those? did you see abuse in the past? I find it rather ridicouslus tbh
<pipework> jhass: neato. I wish they'd make as simple an api for their distributed network as possible.
<graft> josiah14: can you load it into a DB and index it?
<pipework> jhass: I haven't looked in a long while though.
<jhass> pipework: too old and too much undergradute college students code still. You'll like tent.io
<josiah14> I would still have to parse it out, but actually, that's not a bad idea
<graft> josiah14: basically it seems like you're trying to run queries on your raw data, and you need to transform it to something less ugly first before you do
<josiah14> yep
<toretore> ah, thank you logging. not only can i see exactly what happened, but i can link to each point in time to those questioning whether or not my code works to prove it's their fault :P
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<toretore> in ur face!!!
<pipework> jhass: Yeah, I saw that one. I'll have to look further, but I'm not sure it supports the kind of distributed network features I like.
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<pipework> I don't care about it making HTTP requests all over the place, really.
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<josiah14> I think I know what I need to do.
<pipework> Then do not try, do.
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<giuseppesolinas> pipework, so I've instelled ruby's lastest version via chruby do I need to tell my system to use that version?
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<pipework> giuseppesolinas: You mean via ruby-install?
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<pipework> giuseppesolinas: now you need to open a new terminal, you can close the old one, and then use `chruby <version>`
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<pipework> Then if you just gem install <gem>, it'll be usable.
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<giuseppesolinas> pipework, ruby -v stil returns the pre-installed version
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<pipework> giuseppesolinas: After using `chruby <version>`?
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<giuseppesolinas> chruby command not found
<giuseppesolinas> I've used ruby install
<giuseppesolinas> *ruby-install
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<pipework> giuseppesolinas: You may need to read the chruby readme for some stuff to stick in your shell profile files. https://github.com/postmodern/chruby#configuration
<giuseppesolinas> pipework, I've added source /usr/local/opt/chruby/share/chruby/chruby.sh
<pipework> giuseppesolinas: Run that in your current shell.
<pipework> And add it to your bashrc, profile, or whatever you use for shell config
<pipework> giuseppesolinas: Now try `chruby <version>` where you replace <version> with the version of the ruby you installed.
<giuseppesolinas> /usr/local/opt/chruby/share/chruby/chruby.sh: command not found
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<havenwood> giuseppesolinas: did you?: brew install chruby
<pipework> giuseppesolinas: 'source' is an important part of the command.
<havenwood> pipework: oh, hah
<pipework> havenwood: They did, they just didn't setup the config
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<giuseppesolinas> pipework, 200
<giuseppesolinas> ^^
<pipework> giuseppesolinas: 200 what?
<pipework> Oh 2.0.0
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<giuseppesolinas> pipework, it worked
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<pipework> giuseppesolinas: now run `chruby 2` and then if you use `which ruby` you'll see it's not /usr/bin/ruby
<giuseppesolinas> pipework, but doesn't the new version use a new set of gems?
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<zenspider> rawr
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<pipework> giuseppesolinas: Yeah.
<pipework> zenspider: Spiders rawr?
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<havenwood> What does the spider say?
<Radar> jhass: done
<shevy> fly
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<jhass> Radar: thanks!
<zenspider> sometimes, apparently
<giuseppesolinas> pipework, all green, thank you very much ^^
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<havenwood> multiple dispatch in rubinius 3.0, interesting stuff!: http://rubini.us/blog/
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<jhass> oh, new buzzword for method overloading?
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<pipework> Those are the same thing?
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<jhass> looks like it from the usage in the blog
<jhass> well, okay, it's a mixture of overloading and pattern matching
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<jhass> not sure yet if I want to call pattern matching a special kind of method overloading
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<jhass> anyway, multiple dispatch kind of sounds like a paralleization technique to me, not sure I like the term
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<pipework> How do you set a default value and set the type?
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<atmosx> hello
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<havenwood> pipework: good question
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<pipework> havenwood: Rude of them to coopt the way you set default value.
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<pipework> Would it depend on the type method, like Fixnum and every other type to be able to take at least one argument?
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<pipework> def something(Integer(3))
<zacts> so I guess the difficult task is to represent real world problems in terms of ruby objects
<diegoviola> lol wtf
<pipework> zacts: I'm pretty sure you can represent 99 problems as ruby objects, but a bitch won't be one. :p
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<zacts> lol
<jhass> Crystal does def something(foo : Bar, baz = 3 : Baz)
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<pipework> diegoviola: ignorance isn't always funny, as depicted by your link.
<havenwood> pipework: ah, so you can do default arg with a type
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<diegoviola> pipework: what?
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<pipework> havenwood: You can? I don't know, I was guessing for what I wrote.
<diegoviola> pipework: oh, you're talking about yourself
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<pipework> diegoviola: No, your link. The poor guy thinks windows doesn't have a shell.
<diegoviola> pipework: oh lol
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<diegoviola> pipework: yeah sorry about that
<zacts> just FYI mksh has been ported to windows
<wasamasa> ignorance can be bliss
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<zenspider> hey wasamasa, how goes?
<wasamasa> zenspider: procrastination
<diegoviola> he was talking about bash though
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<zenspider> wasamasa: yay! me too!
<diegoviola> hrm, bash runs on windows right?
<diegoviola> cygwin?
<pipework> not so sure
<havenwood> pipework: def something number = Fixnum(42), string = String('sekret')
<wasamasa> diegoviola: for the record, <random git who attempted recruiting me for a company trying to connect people> stated that if microsoft were to opensource the nt kernel, it would be overall comparable to linux
<diegoviola> meh... people just like to hate on windows
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<diegoviola> there are good reasons for that though
<wasamasa> diegoviola: some things worse, some better
<havenwood> i kinda like it
<wasamasa> diegoviola: and the better ones could be potentially startling
<pipework> havenwood: Ah so can I just define any method and pass that method in with an object?
<pipework> Or are there special methods?
<havenwood> pipework: i'm guessing they defined those on Kernel, and you can define your own? dunno..
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<pipework> havenwood: I'm curious about rbx for the first time in ages. This probably doesn't bode well.
<havenwood> pipework: haha
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<maestrojed> I have vagrant questions. Vagrant was written with Ruby I think and I believe my questions have to do with syntax. So I am going to try here. Run me out on a rail if this is inappropriate.
<maestrojed> Like my RoR pun?
<maestrojed> in my vagrant file I load a yaml file that has a collection. I think pass this collection to a shell script.
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<maestrojed> In the shell script I don't get one variable that is a collection/array. Instead I get each collection item as its own variable. Like it was exploded for me or something. I was not expecting this.
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<maestrojed> Any ideas?
<maestrojed> I'd like to have an array in my shell script so that I can count it and loop over it.
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<pipework> Seems pretty reasonable.
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<jhass> maestrojed: if you ask in #ruby assume nobody knows vagrant. so, how is the YAML file read?
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<maestrojed> jhass YAML::load_file("vagrant_config.yml")
<jhass> and how does it look like?
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<maestrojed> jhass not sure what you mean. This is an example of the yaml file. https://gist.github.com/maestrojed/6227d8c7ee28f9b769c7
<maestrojed> jhass the collection of databases is what I am messing with
<jhass> that should return you a hash
<jhass> config = YAML.load_file('vagrant_config.yml'); config["databases"] should give you an array
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<maestrojed> It does. In that ruby file.
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<maestrojed> The next part is probably vagrant specific and is probably the issue.
<jhass> then the 400 people in #vagrant should be able to help you out ;)
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<maestrojed> But the vagrant provission allows you to pass arguments, Including arrays. But when I pass config["databases"] I gets items.
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<maestrojed> jhass I have been trying that channel is very quiet
<jhass> how long? :)
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<maestrojed> jhass Well today on this issue. I have been in #vagrant for many months. Maybe a year. Its always quiet
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<maestrojed> This is the vagrant commit that implied I could pass an array https://github.com/mitchellh/vagrant/pull/1949
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<maestrojed> This is the syntax of that array I use when I pass it. #{vconfig['databases']}
<__aiguu__> Which is the common practice for creating record, ex 1: User.create(params[:user]) or, ex 2: User.create({ foo: params[:foo], bar: params[:bar] })
<__aiguu__> I'd ask in rails but their channel is foobar'd
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<jhass> so I guess you know that response times of 4 hours and more are nothing uncommon for a quiet IRC channel ;)
<jhass> __aiguu__: Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ help
<maestrojed> jhass yeah dude, just trying here. I am a IRC vet. :)
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<maestrojed> I wish I knew someone that knows more about vagrant than me :)
<__aiguu__> thanks!
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<Alayde> Has anyone come up with an easy solution to using sudo with the net/ssh library, whilst using public/private key authentication? The whole 'sudo: no tty present and no askpas, etc' problem only seems to have online solutions (stack overflow, etc) for folks using password authentication.
<jhass> maestrojed: so #{vconfig['databases']} is a comment. I assume that's somewhere inside "" which means your array will be converted to a string (Array#to_s) and interpolated into the string, it's no longer an array
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<maestrojed> jhass awesome that is probably the key
<maestrojed> Thanks I will investigate that.
<jhass> maestrojed: you probably just want to get rid of all the "" and #{}
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<jhass> config.vm.provision :shell, path: "foo", args: vconfig['databases']
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<jhass> Alayde: why do you need to sudo to ssh?
<Alayde> Because we don't give our automation user full root access
<Alayde> er rather, we're not sshing as root in automated scripts
<jhass> your error sounds like you want ssh sudo and do sudo ssh
<jhass> but I'm not sure I follow you tbh
<atmosx> jhass: me either
<atmosx> which is weird
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<atmosx> Alayde: you sure you know what you want to do?
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<Alayde> Fairly sure.
<czhang> Okay I have a question about um, the inheritance of constants defined in modules that are included by a parent class
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<atmosx> czhang: should work
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<atmosx> czhang: they should be accessible from child class
<czhang> I want to overwrite it :(
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<jhass> should work
<czhang> without using const_set or something terrible
<jhass> :P
<atmosx> czhang: awesome, just do it ! (by nike)
<czhang> it um
<czhang> didn't work
<czhang> i'm making a gist right now
<atmosx> czhang: there's this thing call mixin, you sure you need to overwrite it?
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<czhang> um, not sure
<czhang> what do you mean
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<czhang> https://gist.github.com/cjzhang/e2946a31f6cb9614d4aa is my scenario, basically
<atmosx> czhang: why do you need to overwrite a method?
<Alayde> atmosx, jhass: Do people often not try to use sudo with the net-ssh gem?
<czhang> a constant
<jhass> >> module Foo; BAR = :foo; end; class Baz; include Foo; BAR = :baz; end; [Foo::BAR, Baz::BAR] # czhang
<eval-in__> jhass => [:foo, :baz] (https://eval.in/221581)
<atmosx> Alayde: people don't use sudo with ssh yes.
<Alayde> atmosx: I see. What would be the more preferred solution?
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<jhass> Alayde: ssh sudo is quite common, sudo ssh is not
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<jhass> you still didn't explain well what you're doing
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<Alayde> jhass: SSHing to a puppet master, sudo git pull on a git repo
<Alayde> Why would anyone ever sudo ssh?
<czhang> jhass: I don't understand
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<atmosx> Alayde: there are many security models which allow fine grained control
<atmosx> Alayde: depends on the scenario
<atmosx> Alayde: the operating system and so forth
<czhang> The issue is that there's an inherited method there
<Alayde> atmosx: I suppose. Guess I've yet to work at a company that requires super user access to SSH
<czhang> actually, we managed to hack it
<atmosx> Alayde: why do you need to sudo to pull git?!
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<maestrojed> jhass weird, I am having the same experience.
<Alayde> Repository is owned by root :( I suppose that could be changed
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<czhang> but it wasn't in an ideal way, and there's methods in the Foo module that are using the VAR defined by Foo instead of the VAR that I'm trying to overwrite in FooBar
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<Alayde> well, owned by root and not world writeable
<jhass> czhang: your SRP sounds broken
<czhang> SRP?
<maestrojed> Since I am passing an array to my shell script. In that script. I expected "${1}" to be my array. Instead its the first item in the array
<maestrojed> ${2} is the 2nd item, etc.
<atmosx> Alayde: c'mon be serious. Clone the repo to a user, this is awful design.
<jhass> maestrojed: yeah, I think that's the point of passing an array
<maestrojed> right.
<Alayde> atmosx: It's not my design, unfortunately I just inherited this house of cards
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<jhass> maestrojed: argument passing only ever passes strings, you can't pass "an array as first argument", only a string representation of it
<maestrojed> My work around would be to count the array before passing it. pass the array and this count. Then I would know how many vars exist in the shell script and can loop. But that feels wonky at best
<jhass> maestrojed: in this case Array#join should give you a good string representation
<jhass> uhm, I vaguely recall there's a way to count array items in a shell script
<atmosx> czhang: The code on the gist works as expected.
<jhass> somehting with #
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<czhang> :(
<maestrojed> jhass really. Is this vagrant? Ruby? Shell?
<maestrojed> jhass yes, I can count arrays in shell with #
<czhang> wait, it doesn't return 1 for you?
<maestrojed> My issue is it was never an array.
<maestrojed> But I will try your join tip.
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<czhang> :( i'm on ruby 1.8.7
<jhass> maestrojed: .join(' ') so it gets spaces
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<maestrojed> If I had 10 items I'd have 10 vars. But I don't know how many items there will be so thats been my struggle. (and why you use arrays :) ).
<atmosx> czhang: returns 1, should return 1.
<jhass> czhang: yeah well, my condolences, you missed the funeral
<maestrojed> jhass awesome thanks!
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<atmosx> jhass: please, be more polite with strangers
<atmosx> jhass: that tone of irony, is not adequate to the channel's history and ethos
<jhass> 1.8.7 is dead and he seems to know
<atmosx> jhass: I know, I'm just trolling :-P
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<pipework> atmosx using the word ethos should have been enough for you to know you were being trolled, jhass.
<jhass> sorry, not my best day
<czhang> atmosx: yeah but I want it to return 2; is there a way for me to make that happen?
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<pipework> Wait, so are we still talking about ruby, czhang?
<czhang> short of const_set and forking the gem
<czhang> yeah
<czhang> :(
<jhass> czhang: SRP = Single responsibility principle. If you got name conflicts by including a module, it's a good sign your class is way too big
<pipework> czhang: Did you gist your thing?
<atmosx> pipework: I like using Greek words (go figure...)
<czhang> it's not a name conflict, we're trying to overwrite it
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<pipework> jhass: No one wants to have to write a library to use a Vagrantfile. :p
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<atmosx> czhang: of course it is!
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<czhang> okay um
<maestrojed> jhass when you told me "argument passing only ever passes strings, you can't pass "an array as first argument", only a string representation of it". Is this true because of Shell? Ruby? Vagrant? Just trying to google more.
<jhass> maestrojed: it's true because of unix
<czhang> So… is there a way to resolve it
<pipework> czhang: You could use `def self.included(mod); mod.const_set(:Foo, something);end` on the module.
<jhass> fundamental stuff when calling a program
<czhang> oh god
<maestrojed> jhass ok, thx
<czhang> yeah i'm not using const_set, it looks even worse than our current hack
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<czhang> (we have a pretty brutal current hack that seems to have sort of resolved the issue, but it doesn't really overwrite the constant sooooo)
<pipework> czhang: Well, if the value you want is set at a constant, you're kinda screwed unless you cause whatever calls that constant to call your constant instead.
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<pipework> Either way sounds bad.
<czhang> yeah the change was to overwrite the method definition and make it call our new constant with a different name but
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<czhang> that kind of makes me want to cry
<czhang> so
<czhang> welp
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<jhass> is the actual code you need to overwrite open source?
<pipework> czhang: That's worse, imo.
<czhang> yeah we could fork the gem and rewrite parts of it
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<czhang> but that would make it harder to upgrade to a newer version
<czhang> sooooo
<pipework> Yeah, if you could expose better configuration stuff and then pull request upstream...
<jhass> as a first step I'd be interested in removing all that abstraction in your descriptions
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<jhass> there's the slight chance we notice something in the particular code that might make your life easier
<czhang> we're um
<czhang> a lot of versions behind
<jhass> oh, so I get free servers tonight? :)
<jhass> scnr
<txdv> boom
<atmosx> czhang: hm you can't override the method right?
<txdv> >> "shevy "*1000
<eval-in__> txdv => "shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy shevy sh ... (https://eval.in/221585)
<czhang> i can override the method
<czhang> which is what i ended up doing
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<czhang> by making it use a different variable instead of the constant i was trying to override
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<atmosx> czhang: will something like this help? It's not very dynamic https://gist.github.com/atmosx/140fcb98dd571ca19772
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<czhang> hmm
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<atmosx> I mean re-writing the entire class...
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<atmosx> sucks
<czhang> so just redefining the method works?
<atmosx> czhang: sure
<atmosx> it's ruby
<czhang> fair enough
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<czhang> i coudl do that, that i think is actually less bad, yeah
<volty> changing a constant is not good, anyway you need just : Foo::VAR = 2 // you have to change context, and it seems senseless to change it in FooBar class and expect it without 'bringing into life' FooBar
<czhang> actually hmm, that might make the underlying issue less explicit
<atmosx> It's not a DRY solution, but might work until you clean up the code (somehow)
<pipework> volty: Actually, that raises warnings in ruby.
<volty> yap
<pipework> The better way is to delete the constant then set it.
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<czhang> Yeah I think i'm gonna go with "this is the ugly fix but at least it's obvious what's wrong"
<volty> the better way is to rethink everything, i can't see a clear point in his thinking
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<atmosx> Agreed.
<pipework> remove_const and then const_set
<pipework> I don't know why remove_const isn't const_remove
<pipework> or delete or something
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<jhass> because const_set is backwards
<jhass> it should be set_const
<pipework> and const_get?
<jhass> should be const_get
<jhass> bah
<jhass> get_const
<jhass> ruby stop messing with me!
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<pipework> if const_defined?(DatConst); remove_const(DatConst); const_set(DatConst, SOMEVALUE); end
<pipework> Could use defined? but I like the const_defined? here
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<atmosx> that's neat
<atmosx> const_defined?
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<pipework> >> const_defined?(Object)
<eval-in__> pipework => undefined method `const_defined?' for main:Object (NoMethodError) ... (https://eval.in/221586)
<jhass> stuff into class Module; def const_replace; ...; end; end; and never look at that codebase again
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<pipework> It's on module though
* jhass wonders if it wouldn't be easier to just upgrade all that stuff
<pipework> jhass: I wouldn't care about it but then I need to push it around everywhere
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<pipework> Get people to not throw a fit.
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<jhass> >> method(:const_get).owner
<eval-in__> jhass => undefined method `const_get' for class `Object' (NameError) ... (https://eval.in/221587)
<jhass> >> Object.method(:const_get).owner
<volty> module Foo; def gVAR; self.kind_of?(FooBar) ? 2: 1; end; end // just a hint
<eval-in__> jhass => Module (https://eval.in/221588)
<jhass> so class Module seems like the right place
<pipework> >> Module.method(:const_defined?)
<eval-in__> pipework => #<Method: Class(Module)#const_defined?> (https://eval.in/221589)
<pipework> I'd use prepend with a module that defines the same method you want to override.
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<pipework> Call super if you want.
<jhass> prepend is Ruby 2.0 iirc
<pipework> jhass: And 1.8.7 can go fuck itself
<jhass> totally
<pipework> that prepend though. Mmm
<atmosx> Is there any use case for this method, except from fucked up program design?
<jhass> hence "easier to upgrade"
<atmosx> I mean, it's clearly a fire-extinguisher of sorts
<pipework> atmosx: For which?
<volty> nice should be to have a simple and required method
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<atmosx> pipework: why would you ever need to change a constant defined on a module included in a class?
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<jhass> atmosx: fucked up OOD in a nice cocktail shaker with stone age platform and dependencies
<pipework> atmosx: For which method though, specifically?
<atmosx> pipework: all the const_
<czhang> "haha you're on a shitty old version of a gem"
<pipework> atmosx: Metaprogramming.
<czhang> "that uses an old version of the api"
<atmosx> pipework: hmmmmm
<czhang> "but the gem has a bug in it where it breaks on new versions of the api"
<atmosx> pipework: yes, might be
<pipework> atmosx: Making things available via constants that can be easily reached.
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<jhass> czhang: still saner to monkeypatch that bug and trying to upstream the monkeypatch
<pipework> If it were up to me everything would be allowed only one constant in the global namespace
<mostlybadfly> pipework: there is a beer here called pipeworks, just thought I'd share that :D
<pipework> Your gem would fail to build otherwise.
<pipework> mostlybadfly: Ooh, what kinda beer?
<atmosx> pipework: but variables in OO design should be dynamic, otherwise there's a reason if they are hard-coded
<czhang> i mean certainly "why not patch an old version of the gem instead of upgrading the gem" is an idea but
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<mostlybadfly> it is actually a brewery
<mostlybadfly> they make all kinds, pretty good
<pipework> atmosx: You need some handle at the global namespace
<czhang> we are pretty sure it's been fixed in later versions (the later versions caused other issues for us)
<apeiros> pipework: add "and that constant must match the gem name" and I actually happen to agree with you :)
<atmosx> pipework: I mean, smells like bad code if you mess with these methods IMHO
<jhass> czhang: the idea is to fix those other issues, preferably upstream
<pipework> atmosx: Well, it is magical.
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