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<atmosx>
Hanmac: you work as DevOps or this is your home file storeage system?
<Hanmac>
atmosx: home pc
<atmosx>
Hanmac: hm, what are the specs of that server? out of curiosity?
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<Hanmac>
atmosx: not server, workpc 5 x 2 TB with RAID5
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<atmosx>
Work PC? It's a desktop system?
<Hanmac>
yeah normaly it is
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<shevy>
for so much p0rn
<atmosx>
shevy: did you find anything interesting?
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<shevy>
atmosx where :-)
<atmosx>
I mean any good porn :-P
<shevy>
I am trying to reach a point where I have 0 rewrites
<Pattt>
maybe a reinstall will work
<shevy>
so I didn't really spend any time seeking p0rn
<shevy>
atmosx my goal is to somehow finish with all rewrites before 2014 is over, and in 2015 start fresh, clean and lean with C first, and later rails
<atmosx>
shevy: I'm all around js..
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<shevy>
comforts
<shevy>
oh
<shevy>
but I tried to build a firefox extension yesterday
<shevy>
I may have some questions... but first I have to show you what I learned today atmosx
<Pattt>
used ruby installer latest version minutes ago
<rubie>
hi all: im a beginner with ruby, trying to make a game of checkers. Not sure where to proceed from here, could someone point me in the right direction? https://gist.github.com/gabrie30/819f481ab0ec44f13447
<aaas>
anyone use autotest? i have tried several different versions of ruby and i cant get a single one of them to run autotest correctly ...every single one of them just hang and that's it
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<havenwood>
Pattt: does updating RubyGems also fail, i suppose?: gem update --system
<Pattt>
yeah same error
<Pattt>
i am sure this worked 2 weeks azgo
<Pattt>
ago
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<havenwood>
Pattt: what version of openssl? ruby -ropenssl -e 'puts OpenSSL::OPENSSL_VERSION'
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<havenwood>
Pattt: is there a firewall blocking outbound connections?
<Pattt>
1.0.0o
<Pattt>
shouldnt be
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<Pattt>
but now i get: ERROR: While executing gem ... (OpenSSL::X509::StoreError)
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<Pattt>
shevy i downloaded sass gem
<Pattt>
still get that error
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<siaw>
what does it mean to say “Read input from STDIN. Print output to STDOUT”
<siaw>
?
<Pattt>
where do i put .gem file?
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<aaas>
why would 'sudo gem' say 'command not found' while gem runs the command....$PATH for both the user and root has the directory with 'gem' in it and i've restarted my terminal....but only the user can run the command with sudo i cant
<Hanmac>
aaas: did you use rvm or something like that?
<aaas>
Hanmac i used ruby-install
<aaas>
so everything is in /opt/rubies
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<havenwood>
aaas: which Ruby is selected with chruby?
<havenwood>
aaas: are you wanting to switch between rubies or just use one?
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<aaas>
havenwood im just trying to use one...i tried to install churby but churby just gives me 'command not found'....i just installed using ruby-install
<havenwood>
aaas: if just one, install to /usr/local: ruby-install ruby 2.1.5 --system
<aaas>
ah cool
<aaas>
thanks
<havenwood>
aaas: or if you want to switch, chruby will autodetect /opt/rubies rubies
<havenwood>
aaas: no prob
<havenwood>
aaas: it's chruby not churby :P
<aaas>
hahaha sorry
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<NotKnuth>
i use rbenv, am trying to install travis-api and travis-web on my computer, they specify 2.1.4 and 2.1.2 respectively, rbenv ruby versions only go up to 2.1.0-dev
<jhass>
is your rbenv and. what was it?, ruby-install?, up-to-date?
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<NotKnuth>
jhass: update rbenv? that's what you're saying ? I'll try it
<jhass>
and the thingy it uses to install rubies
<jhass>
ruby-install or ruby-build I can't remember
<NotKnuth>
ok will try
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<NotKnuth>
brew upgrade rbenv ruby-build
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<NotKnuth>
jhass: did the upgrade and ran rbenv rehash, and same results, highest version is 2.1.0
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<jhass>
weird
<NotKnuth>
can't run bundle install on travis-web: Your Ruby version is 2.1.0, but your Gemfile specified 2.1.2
<jhass>
rbenv install 2.1.2 ?
<NotKnuth>
a problem for another day....thanks for your help
<NotKnuth>
ruby-build: definition not found: 2.1.2
<NotKnuth>
rbenv install --list
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<jhass>
ew, the version on homebrew is probably outdated I guess
<havenwood>
NotKnuth: brew update
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<havenwood>
NotKnuth: or if you keep having trouble, take the chance to upgrade to chruby and ruby-install :)
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<NotKnuth>
havenwood: is it *better* than rbenv?
<havenwood>
NotKnuth: in a number of ways
<NotKnuth>
brew update Already up-to-date.
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<jhass>
did you open a new shell?
<NotKnuth>
jhass: I thought rbenv rehash did the same thing (in effect)
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<jhass>
might not get the new ruby-build sourced or whatever
<jhass>
I don't use these
<NotKnuth>
jhass: same result in new shell
<havenwood>
NotKnuth: you can also install Rubies for rbenv with ruby-install: ruby-install --install-dir ~/.rbenv/version/ruby-2.1.5 ruby 2.1.5
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<NotKnuth>
oh well, a problem for another day, i'm tired. thanks for your help
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<pontiki>
+1 for chruby/ruby-install
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<mordof>
so I set up a ruby file with the stuff I need for my environment - and I'm having trouble finding how to load that into irb without having to require it in every time. Anyone know a guide or quick tips to mess with irb?
<mordof>
ooh irbrc.. nevermind
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<byprdct>
mordof avi had a couple pretty good vidoes on require, load etc
<Hanmac>
atmosx: was it with you that i talked about my broken system yesterday?
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<Hanmac>
i currently does grep my unmounted physical partition to search for some backups of the metadata ... (or something like that)
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<atmosx>
Hanmac: yes
<linocisco>
pontiki, thanks I got it downloaded 18.3 MB
<atmosx>
Hanmac: Smart! I wonder though if it wouldn't be better to migrate to FreeBSD + ZFS
<atmosx>
Hanmac: having RAID5 and all that..
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<Hanmac>
i didnt manage to fixed yesterday ... today i did found a newer meta file but that wasnt also good ... now i am still searching ... but my hope is slowy dieing to fix it myself
<atmosx>
would raid-z1 (with zfs)
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<atmosx>
I'm going for a run catch you later guys.
<atmosx>
bb
<Hanmac>
atmosx: i think the raid itself is not the problem ... i did manage to recover that ... the problem is the lvm inside the raid with seems to be broeken
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<atmosx>
Hanmac: well zpool is more reliable IMHO.
<Hanmac>
but the good news for me, the data seems to be still there ...
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<atmosx>
Hanmac: well, that's what counts I guess
<atmosx>
s/counts/matters
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<Hanmac>
hm about zpool and zfs hm i think it would be the same broken if the metadata get corrupted ... but that the data is still there is good so that some data recovery service can help me with that ... even if it does cost me money
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<brer>
#puppet
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<whiels>
when would you set a nil value?
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<agent_white>
epitron: I started that one but switched to this! Was just feeling like seeing some more code ;P
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<certainty>
agent_white: be sure to check out other stuff from her
<agent_white>
certainty: I will most definitely. After I bought POODR I was hooked on how she explains things.
<agent_white>
Definitely my kind of style.
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<certainty>
same here. also i like her way of dissecting the nitty gritty details behind what we all do. she really seems to care for the why and putting labels and explanations on things
<certainty>
that helped me alot to teach stuff to new colleagues
<agent_white>
Hell yeah :D
<agent_white>
I like her approach of the ground-up; seeing the worst first then refactoring.
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<certainty>
yeah
<certainty>
was that the talk where she had that analogy with the space ship?
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<agent_white>
Hmmm not sure actually! That's just from POODR and her Goruco 2011 talk
<agent_white>
Seems like she does it quite a bit though
<certainty>
explaining the different methods that generally exist? the distinction between query and command as the most fundamental is something i wish more poeple would do
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<unshadow>
What is the best way to restart an init service\daemon from ruby ? are the alternatives to %x() and system() ? is there something like Process.restart("apache2") or something ?
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<apeiros_>
Process.kill probably
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<unshadow>
it will only kill, it wont restart or start etc..
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<apeiros_>
it's named like the shell `kill` command and does the same thing - it sends signals to processes.
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<shevy>
kill!
<shevy>
pull unshadow out of the shadows!
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<DaniG2k>
is jcrop still the defacto cropping tool for image cropping? :P
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<DaniG2k>
seems that way
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<DaniG2k>
despite the project being 2 years old
<apeiros_>
I think the defacto tool for image manipulation is rmagick/imagemagick
<apeiros_>
and second is probably imagescience
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<DaniG2k>
apeiros_: I'm using minimagick already
<DaniG2k>
and carrierwave
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<DaniG2k>
apeiros_: but, say I want to crop and resize only a party of the image (because by default the aforementioned tools use the center of the image)
<DaniG2k>
apeiros_: then a tool like jcrop is necessary it seems :\
<apeiros_>
imagemagick may *default* to use the center. but it certainly can crop any way you want
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<DaniG2k>
true
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<shevy>
we ought to register all common image transformations into its own gem project
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<apeiros_>
I don't think that makes sense
<DaniG2k>
well
<DaniG2k>
i think minimagick is great
<DaniG2k>
but it would be VERY nice if it had a jquery image cropping tool that lets the user select an area to crop with a preview of what it would look like
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<DaniG2k>
as in Railscast #182
<DaniG2k>
I'm reluctant to use jcrop though since it's 2 years old
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<DaniG2k>
and I'm guessing it depends on old libraries
<apeiros_>
DaniG2k: if you're speaking about *javascript* imagecropping, then you're in the wrong channel
<DaniG2k>
apeiros_: im in the wrong channel if I talk about images, period
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<DaniG2k>
:P
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<apeiros_>
no
<apeiros_>
image manipulation with ruby is on-topic.
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<green-big-frog>
hi
<apeiros_>
hi green-big-frog
<shevy>
lol
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<shevy>
let's paint him pink
* green-big-frog
gets red
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<Pattt>
anyone else used ruby installer for windows?
<shevy>
why do you ask anyone else? it is your code prius-C
<agent_white>
Aye, and $@ the error location
<prius-C>
shevy: i'm trying to understand when to use nil
<shevy>
prius-C you must find a way to end your loop
<shevy>
you can use nil as a default initializer, and when you change the value of a variable you know that it is no longer nil and hence was changed
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<sevenseacat>
unless you changed it to nil
<sevenseacat>
:o
<prius-C>
thank you that's interesting
<certainty>
prius-C: do you know the two cases for a recursive function?
<prius-C>
certainty: it has to call itself?
<shevy>
sevenseacat you are a too clever cat for this channel
<sevenseacat>
it needs a terminating base case
<certainty>
prius-C: yes that's how it works but there are basically two things. 1) the base-case in which no more step is needed and 2) the recursive step in which the function invokes itself
<certainty>
you have think about the base case
<shevy>
think of the children
<shevy>
I have think. good certainty think. ugh.
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<certainty>
yeah good shevy. I think :)
<shevy>
prius-C do you now understand?
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<Pattt>
if i download a .gem in browser, where to i put it to install?
<prius-C>
shevy: i think i do
<Pattt>
i am unable to connect to DL un CMD line
<prius-C>
Pattt: try using gem install
<Pattt>
i did
<Pattt>
i get this error:
<Pattt>
ERROR: While executing gem ... (OpenSSL::X509::StoreError)
<Pattt>
been trying to solve this since yesterday
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<shevy>
Pattt do you know where you downloaded the .gem file
<Pattt>
yeah i have it here
<Pattt>
c:\ruby21
<shevy>
ok simplest way is
<shevy>
change directory there with cmd.exe
<shevy>
then do: gem install ./*.gem
<shevy>
or the name of the .gem
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<shevy>
afterwards do "gem list" to see if it really was installed
<agent_white>
then
<agent_white>
do a dance
<agent_white>
like this
<Pattt>
in dir now
<agent_white>
\o/
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<Pattt>
when to the dir, and ran : gem install sass
<Pattt>
still get: ERROR: While executing gem ... (OpenSSL::X509::StoreError)
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<shevy>
ok
<shevy>
let me get this straight
<Pattt>
shit 1 sec
<shevy>
you ran this:
<shevy>
"gem install sass"
<shevy>
and I typed this:
<shevy>
<shevy> then do: gem install ./*.gem
<shevy>
so ?
<Pattt>
1sec
<shevy>
:-)
<shevy>
Pattt you need the ./ do denote that it is in the current directory, as otherwise gem will try a remote fetch & install
<Pattt>
i deleted the files by mistake, ok back on
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<Pattt>
let me run what you said
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<Pattt>
just pasted: gem install ./*.gem
<Pattt>
and get: ERROR: While executing gem ... (OpenSSL::X509::StoreError)
<Pattt>
i would ideally like it to fetch the gem
<Pattt>
so i dont need to download it manually
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<shevy>
what is the name of the gem?
<shevy>
ah try this
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<shevy>
gem install --ignore-dependencies ./*.gem
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<shevy>
but what is the full name of the gem you are trying to install?
<certainty>
i have no idea about the windows stuff but a) you have the option to temporarily fetch the gem from a non tls-secured source (not recommended) and b) the last comment says that the certificate chain might be fubared and need to be uptated (dunno if that's true)
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<Pattt>
just reading about path being wrong
<Pattt>
trying to find out which file i edit
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<shevy>
well if you can't fix that error
<shevy>
download those .gem files into a separate directory
<shevy>
and keep managing the dependencies on your own for now
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<Pattt>
may have to
<shevy>
until you write a ruby script that does the manual steps for you :-)
<Pattt>
is this all required to install bootstrap-sass?
<shevy>
depends on how much time you invest googling, sometimes it's simpler to move on... install_this_gem would have to be a method like: def install_this_gem(i); puts 'now installing this gem '+i.to_s; system 'gem install ./'+i.to_s; end
<apeiros>
comm64: `return date + ' +0000'.to_time` does not execute in the order you think it does
<apeiros>
it is: return (date + (' +0000'.to_time))`
<apeiros>
and from where should String#to_time come from?
<jhass>
comm64: your error comes from the fact that toplevel methods are private methods added to Object, so your String gets your to_time method, but it's private
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<havenwood>
Pattt: Have you ever made a plain old HTML page? Have you started with a basic Bootstrap HTML template and tried modifying it?
<apeiros>
d'oh. should have looked closer.
<jhass>
comm64: I'd suggest you look into the strptime methods
<apeiros>
comm64: a method belongs to a class. if you call "some string".some_method, some_method must be defined in the String class
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<comm64>
so if I wrapped both methods in a class it would work?
<apeiros>
"in *a* class" - no.
<apeiros>
if you want to call to_time on a string, it must be defined in String or one of its ancestors.
<havenwood>
Pattt: You might want to try asking some questions in #bootstrap if you haven't yet.
<havenwood>
Pattt: ##bootstrap rather**
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<comm64>
what if I had class mysql2date < String and then put both methods in that class?
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<apeiros>
then ruby would tell you that classnames must start with an uppercase letter. and it'd be bad design.
<Pattt>
thanks
<apeiros>
and you still couldn't call to_time on a string
<apeiros>
(since strings are not instances of Mysql2date)
<shevy>
ruby would tell me whether something is a bad design? :D
<havenwood>
Pattt: HTML and CSS is a lot. And JavaScript already on top of that. Adding Ruby into the mix is probably premature until you have a handle on the others. Unless you want to abandon your Bootstrap and just learn Ruby! :)
<shevy>
"class Penguin < Cars " Warning - Penguins are not Cars.
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<elvispresley->
classes usually aren't plural either
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<comm64>
hmmm
<shevy>
class Fish
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<shevy>
is this plural
<elvispresley->
nope
<shevy>
it is!!!
<comm64>
ok so let's say I have a date in the form of a string and I put that into a function machine, and out pops a timestamp...what's happening in the function machine
<elvispresley->
is it not fishes?
<jhass>
what's a "function machine"?
<apeiros>
comm64: point is - in your code, you do *not* put the string into the method
<certainty>
i'd expect a function machine to pop out functions rather than timestamps
<shevy>
only if there are Sheeps
<apeiros>
comm64: you have the method as the receiver. and the class of the receiver must implement the called method.
<apeiros>
`receiver.method(arguments)` # <-- terminology. receiver is the object on the left of the "."
<shevy>
elvispresley- should I write class Gallows or class Gallow
<apeiros>
(and to be pedantic: the object the expression to the left of the "." evaluates to)
<elvispresley->
shevy, class names should usually be singular names, a car, a person, a ..
<certainty>
not pedantic at all
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<comm64>
I think I'm starting to get it now
<elvispresley->
shevy, if its 'cars', probably should be CarList or something like that
<apeiros>
comm64: you can do functions like this: module DateUtil; module_function; def to_time(string, form=:local) …; end; end
<shevy>
ok... class Gallow, class Jean, class Pyjama, class Binucolar
<apeiros>
then you could call DateUtil.to_time("datestring")
<certainty>
(car (list 1 2 3)) <- car list
<Pattt>
am still learning js
<apeiros>
but then you have to refer to the string via the local variable `string` instead of `self`
<Pattt>
or trying to
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<Pattt>
am alright with html + css
<apeiros>
certainty: no one cars
<certainty>
xp
<shevy>
certainty that seems like lisp
<certainty>
no no
<shevy>
it sure has the suspicious ((
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<certainty>
yeah ok it is lisp
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<shevy>
AHA!
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<certainty>
sorry
<comm64>
ok back to the drawing board lol...thanks for your help
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<ftj>
I'm writing a little KPI dashboard in Rails that's syncing data from an endpoint that has access to a reporting database. Is there an accepted "most efficient" way to compare the incoming data to what's already in the database so that I'm not storing duplicate records?
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<apeiros>
ftj: waaaay too generic
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<apeiros>
do you control the data generating endpoint?
<comm64>
apeiros: just to be clear did you mean DateUtil or DateUtils because I find both in the ruby docs
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<comm64>
probably DateUtils
<comm64>
nevermind
<apeiros>
comm64: it was supposed to be a new module. so nothing which is in ruby already. so entirely up to you to define the name. I prefer singular.
<ftj>
apeiros I don't
<ftj>
apeiros, well, I sort of do. You just answered my question
<apeiros>
ftj: then it depends entirely on what the endpoint offers.
<ftj>
apeiros I'll make sure the dev writing the endpoint gives me a way of giving me data after a certain date
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<ftj>
I look up the last date I have, and ask for everything after that
<ftj>
Thank you! :D
<comm64>
ah got it lol
<apeiros>
good. avoid accidental gaps due to multiple events having the same date, though.
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<ftj>
Yeah, I can make sure we get it down to sub-second accuracy
<apeiros>
comm64: though, thinking about it, I think my "singular names" preference is with regards to classes, not modules.
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<apeiros>
ftj: just makes the problem less likely, but doesn't eliminate it.
<ftj>
We're OK with that limited risk
<apeiros>
ok
<ftj>
It's just for a simple internal reporting dashboard
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<certainty>
apeiros: i'll forward this from now on every time my boss starts to consider c++ for a new project again
<apeiros>
c++ is afaik one of 4 sanctioned languages @ google
<elvispresley->
c++, go, python, and..?
<banister>
java
frog|OFF is now known as green-big-frog
<certainty>
they also have huge CL codebase
<wasamasa>
certainty: they?
<certainty>
google
<wasamasa>
I should have known
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<atmosx>
certainty: doesn't C++ offer speed (e.g. performance) when used for mobile dev? (android)
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<certainty>
atmosx: i don't know. I never developed mobile stuff, but iirc java is the goto language for android
<certainty>
or at least any language that runs on the jvm? i'm not sure
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<atmosx>
certainty: C++ is used both for iOs and Android dev when performance is an issue.
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<certainty>
atmosx: ah ok. If performance is an issue and it can not be solved otherwise c++ might be your only sane option. But it certainly should not be the first language to pick unless you have very good reasons
<comm64>
my brain is *literally* hurting trying to figure this out
<comm64>
I think I may be too far ahead of myself
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<certainty>
put aside all the PL nastiness, C and C++ are the single most prominent sources of memory related bugs. It costs a huge amount of money to fix these
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<certainty>
it's *very* hard to make them do what you want and *only* that
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<atmosx>
certainty: agreed
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<ammar>
certainty: C and C++ are harder to learn and master, true. With power comes responsibility. A lot of it.
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<certainty>
ammar: true. My claim is that it's more responsible to drop power if you can. That basically means that one should resort to a language that has automatic memory management at the least
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<shevy>
PERL!
<certainty>
exactly! xD
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<shevy>
comm64 here is one thing that works for me very well: streamline and simplify everything, radically. the simpler the better. standardized structure and code areas; modular and re-usable approach and layout of code
<ammar>
certainty: agreed. it greatly depends on what is being built. kernels, ruby, java, postgres, redis, all needed C/C++.
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<shevy>
C rules the software world
<shevy>
it must only be ashamed of itself for two things
<shevy>
- java
<shevy>
- C++
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<jhass>
if it's just in the docs and not in the code it's just a recommendation
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<theanswer>
jhass: are you talking to me? how else might I run that command without rvm?
<theanswer>
jhass: rvm jruby do bundle exec rake db:migrate
<jhass>
maybe just strip the rvm jruby doc ?
<jhass>
-c
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<theanswer>
jhass: will try it, installing jruby now
<jhass>
what's your end goal?
<theanswer>
jhass: getting it to run on my local machine, after that I have no idea
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<jhass>
oh
<jhass>
theanswer: Please do not crosspost without at least telling so. Experience shows that people don't bother to inform the other channels of provided solutions, therefore it is considered rude.
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<StrawMachie>
Help!!
<StrawMachie>
I got this: /opt/metasploit-framework/config/boot.rb:19: undefined method `to_path' for #<Pathname:/opt/metasploit-framework/Gemfile> (NoMethodError) from /opt/metasploit-framework/config/boot.rb:15:in `each' from /opt/metasploit-framework/config/boot.rb:15 from /usr/local/bin/msfconsole:45:in `require' from /usr/local/bin/msfconsole:45
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<jhass>
please join #metasploit for metasploit questions
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<StrawMachie>
Please
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<epitron>
trying to convert a path to a path doesn't work? that seems like a bug on pathname
<StrawMachie>
:(
<epitron>
StrawMachie: maybe you have the wrong ruby version
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<StrawMachie>
I did all
<epitron>
check the docs
<StrawMachie>
upgrade and downgrade
<StrawMachie>
please help
<StrawMachie>
I am stuck on about one year
<StrawMachie>
I did this
<apeiros>
StrawMachie: you don't get more help by pleading.
<StrawMachie>
This
<epitron>
well, just go: class Pathname; def to_path; self; end; end
<jhass>
StrawMachie: if you can't debug such basic stuff (looking at shebangs, verify it actually runs the most recent version etc.), better get a new hobbdy
<havenwood>
StrawMachie: If you want to install Ruby to learn Ruby, we can help. If you want to install Ruby to run Metasploit, please take it to #metasploit.
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<shevy>
see StrawMachie you are running ANCIENT RUBY
<StrawMachie>
I type ls -l and there is Gemfile and I can't access to it
<StrawMachie>
There nothing in gemfile
<shevy>
good
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<StrawMachie>
Why?
<shevy>
because you don't need gemfiles
<StrawMachie>
but when i write msfconsole it said:
<StrawMachie>
Could not find rake-10.4.2 in any of the sources Run `bundle install` to install missing gems.
<StrawMachie>
I can't find where to install rake
<shevy>
does the command rake work
<StrawMachie>
Yes
<shevy>
see how stupid this is
<shevy>
you have rake work
<shevy>
but it won't run
<StrawMachie>
please
<StrawMachie>
i wasted 3 hours
<StrawMachie>
please help
<hdrv>
"wasted"
<hdrv>
didn't you take ANYTHING from this experience?
<hdrv>
no?
<StrawMachie>
i did
<hdrv>
that is why you don't learn.
<StrawMachie>
just didn't understand
<StrawMachie>
my task is running msfconsole
<StrawMachie>
I don't understand what it './configure' is
<shevy>
StrawMachie you jump from left to right in 5 seconds
<shevy>
nobody can follow you
<hdrv>
./configure sounds like a unix shell script
<StrawMachie>
You said my problem is with rake
<StrawMachie>
i have rake but not running
<shevy>
you have rake
<StrawMachie>
Yes!
<hdrv>
...
<hdrv>
wow
<shevy>
so why does it say it can not find rake-10.4.2
<StrawMachie>
[root@nee ~]# rake rake aborted! No Rakefile found (looking for: rakefile, Rakefile, rakefile.rb, Rakefile.rb) (See full trace by running task with --trace)
<shevy>
what version do you have
<hdrv>
so rake does not *work*
<shevy>
StrawMachie you must be able to answer such questions man
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<webchatter>
what is a good way to manually check a prime number?
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<jhass>
manually as in not with Prime.prime?
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<webchatter>
yeah
<jhass>
look at its implementation I guess
<webchatter>
i can't use the prime module and i am struggling with programming right now
<webchatter>
my logic is way off
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<webchatter>
i know the syntax but i forgot how to use it >=(
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<platzhirsch>
dude
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<Nilium>
Not sure if I should start celebrating the death of Rails just yet, but this guy clearly isn't looking
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<Nilium>
I still get annoying recruiters pestering me about Rails stuff, and I've never even touched Rails
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<platzhirsch>
I'd love to get a pure Ruby job
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<Nilium>
Unfortunately, the only Ruby I write at work is for automating stuff
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<Nilium>
For god knows what reason, everyone else does the same thing in PHP
<platzhirsch>
Ruby is a nice glue language
<pontiki>
wait -- people using PHP to automate stuff??
<Nilium>
I suggest just staring blankly at a wall and weeping.
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<pontiki>
i think i shall...
<Nilium>
I'm currently looking for ways to destroy every shred of PHP in my company, but they keep using the stupid thing for new stuff and I don't get it
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<Nilium>
I feel like it has to be stockholm syndrome
<platzhirsch>
Depends on the company, what they want to achieve and whether there is a gain in changing the language
<pontiki>
from the late 80s on I used to Perl to automate things; then Ruby in the late 00s
<platzhirsch>
For instance, does changing PHP to another language really has an impact on our users or do we just want to pleasure our developers
<Nilium>
Well, the goal would be to switch most stuff to Go to get better concurrency support, compile-time type correctness, performance benefits, etc.
<pontiki>
i think i may have written a couple non-web-related PHP scripts, just to see, you know?
<Nilium>
Go or some other language with similar guarantees
<pontiki>
<3 Go
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<platzhirsch>
Gooo.. but how many are able to write Go?
<pontiki>
i suppose ppl will be writing JS command line tools now with node?
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<Nilium>
We're also using node.js and I wish we fucking wouldn't >:|
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<Nilium>
node is just awful.
<pontiki>
i don't have enough experience with it to know
<Nilium>
Javascript was not a language made for the things people want to do with node.
<Nilium>
The other issue is that all node.js code devolves into callback hell
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<jhass>
pontiki: happened already. keybase for example iirc
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<Nilium>
Besides that, it's just plain hard to debug node, PHP, etc., as far as I'm concerned
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<Nilium>
Also hard to know if what you've written is actually going to work due to the lack of types. Same issue in PHP, Ruby, etc. there, though.
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<Nilium>
PHP has the benefit of having partial static typing but you can't check if your code actually complies with the type hints until something hits that point in the code.
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<crome>
luckily a reliable error reporting mechanism and sophisticated debugging features built into the runtime make it easy to deal with those situations
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<Nilium>
Not really.
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<apeiros>
oh wow, pontiki is older than I expected :D
<apeiros>
and there I thought I was the old fart in this channel…
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<platzhirsch>
apeiros: you probably are, but maybe not the oldest?!
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<platzhirsch>
btw. where is shevy that little rattle snake
<apeiros>
little rattle snake, eh? :)
<Nilium>
So shevy's a rattle snake now?
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<jhass>
depends on whether he likes it or not
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<platzhirsch>
That's not for him to decide whether he likes it or not, I have the authority on that
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<pontiki>
um
<pontiki>
yeah
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<platzhirsch>
sorry, I got a little frail.. too much Java and Android SDK in the last months
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<pontiki>
i just hope i'm not old enough to be anyone's grandmother in here....
<apeiros>
java… one of the languages I'd want schmerzensgeld if I should code in it
<platzhirsch>
haha
<apeiros>
and why does the english language not have a succinct translation of schmerzensgeld?
<platzhirsch>
compensation for personal suffering.. I think that's a good one
<siaw>
what is the difference betweent “hello”.to_s and String(“hello”)
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<jhass>
siaw: did you look at the docs for Kernel#String ?
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<siaw>
jhass: nope
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<siaw>
jhass: but i do know both of them are type casting right?
<agent_white>
siaw: You mean "hello" and String("hello") ?
<agent_white>
oh nvm
<jhass>
then here comes your "I'm too lazy to look at the docs" service: "Converts arg to a String by calling its to_s method"
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<jhass>
there's no casting in ruby
<jhass>
only conversion
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<siaw>
jhass: whot told you that?
<siaw>
“1” is a string that i can change to an integer
<siaw>
tell me i’m wrong
<jhass>
common place
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<apeiros>
siaw: you are wrong
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<siaw>
apeiros: about what?
<apeiros>
you can't *change it to* an integer
<jhass>
type casting refers to the type of a variable, not an object
<apeiros>
you get a *different* object back
<jhass>
since ruby has no typed variables, there's no casting
<apeiros>
that's conversion, not casting.
<apeiros>
casting is interpreting the same data differently
<siaw>
apeiros: hmmm. then lots of books and Lynda is misleading people
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<jhass>
that might very well be
<apeiros>
siaw: I doubt that (lots of books)
<apeiros>
there might be books where the authors fail to use proper terminology. but *lots* I only believe when I see it.
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<apeiros>
Lynda - don't even know who that is.
<siaw>
apeiros: Lynda.com
<platzhirsch>
<agent_white>
Never though about the difference between casting and converting... type conversion wiki says "... In most AGOL-languages... conversion refers to changing a value from one data type to another -- cast refers to changing the interpretation of the bit patten."
<agent_white>
Is that right?
<agent_white>
Er rather
<apeiros>
siaw: link to the specific place where they say it was casting?
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<siaw>
apeiros: i can give you an example of one well “renowned” ruby book “The Well-grounded Rubyist” is an example
<apeiros>
agent_white: yupp. matches what I said above.
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<siaw>
one minute i’ll find it
<agent_white>
apeiros: Ah! Your summary is much better :D
<apeiros>
agent_white: take C with a char*, you could interpret it as a string, or a 4 byte long could be interpreted as a 4 byte int, in different endians etc.
<apeiros>
you don't need to copy or otherwise manipulate it
<siaw>
agent_white: i think conversion creates ANOTHER object but casting doesn’t
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<agent_white>
apeiros: Ahhh I see.
<apeiros>
siaw: in ruby, yes
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<siaw>
apeiros: crap these books are useless
<apeiros>
in other languages, it may mean something different. e.g. it could well be possible that some language mutates the data in place to make it something else.
<apeiros>
siaw: I don't think java allows in-place change of type
<apeiros>
that'd be the "strongly" part about strongly typed languages
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<apeiros>
agent_white: managed to dig out a troll? hehe, long time since I've last seen lazaridis
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<siaw>
apeiros: java is strongly typed
<agent_white>
apeiros: First time I've ever heard of him! :P
<platzhirsch>
<strong>typed</strong>
<apeiros>
siaw: yes. which is why you can't convert stuff in-place.
<apeiros>
an object can't change its type. you can cast (interpret the same object without mutating) as a different type.
<apeiros>
ruby doesn't have that. mostly because its dynamic typing would make that a rather useless feature
<siaw>
apeiros: so if you mutate it then it becomes conversion. not casting i believe. so where did the casting go?
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<apeiros>
mutating would be one way of converting
<apeiros>
I think creating new data is the more common approach
<siaw>
well is there any other way? cause you made me think that change the type in-place becomes casting then right?
<apeiros>
I thought I was pretty clear
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<apeiros>
cast does not change anything.
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<agent_white>
siaw: What are you trying to do anyways?
<apeiros>
or better: cast does not mutate anything. as I said about 3 times already: cast is: interpret existing data differently.
<siaw>
agent_white: i’m trying to understand ruby better
<jhass>
siaw: then stop to worry about casting
<agent_white>
siaw: Ahhh! Thought you had some specific use-case.
<jhass>
there's none in ruby
<siaw>
apeiros: got it now
<kl>
Isn't conversion just "casting for numbers" ?
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<apeiros>
kl: no.
<havenn>
“When you call methods like to_s, to_i, and to_f, the result is a new object … You’re not using the object as a string or an integer; you’re asking the object to provide a second object that corresponds to its idea of itself (so to speak) in one of those forms.”
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<kl>
apeiros: what the hell's conversion, then?
<apeiros>
see scrollback. not gonna repeat.
<havenn>
siaw: Well-Grouned Rubyist ^
<siaw>
jhass: you see, i’m just LEARNING and books are misinforming me :)
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<jhass>
and I'm telling you that they do, so maybe carry on ;)
<apeiros>
havenn: that author has put it quite nicely.
<siaw>
havenn: that book is telling me Ruby does type casting, but aspeiros says that’s now true
<siaw>
not*
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<apeiros>
aspergereios…
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<apeiros>
siaw: hint: tab completion.
<siaw>
apeiros: :P
<jhass>
siaw: can you quote, or tell the page so havenn can?
<siaw>
yes yes. just a second have to look for it jhass
<havenn>
siaw: Also, first or second edition?
<kl>
apeiros: apparently I'd already read what you said - was a bit of a non-definition, though
<apeiros>
kl: it is pretty well defined.
<jhass>
kl: do you know any statically typed language?
<apeiros>
kl: of course, if you'd like to make a well defined question about it…