<apeiros_>
gets 17773 for me with 2.1.5. edit the path to be your stdlib dir.
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<apeiros_>
had to exclude some things, so it's even more.
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<XxionxX>
felltir: That did the trick! I was able to complete my program!
<shevy>
huh
<shevy>
17773 is indeed close to 18.000
<godd2>
can you define a variable that's global to a call stack, but once you leave that stack, it ceases?
<shevy>
banamanamanabana guess you won that bet then
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<XxionxX>
Oh darn, he left. I wanted to say thanks for helping me solve my problem :/
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<ght>
Question: I've got an app I coded that takes content from one product via an API and moves it to another product via an API, and I"m interested in providing my users notification of changes, as in things that are written to the second API. I'm trying to, conceptually, think about how I might go about this, such as writing data to a text file, then emailing contents of the text file.
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<ght>
Does anyone have any references for such a notification service? Any general throughts?
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<apeiros_>
hm, seems `super` in method_missing in a BasicObject does not work…
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<shevy>
please apeiros_
<shevy>
don't enter the dark ways of ruby
<apeiros_>
too late
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<XxionxX>
If I am nesting if statements should I be defining methods? Is there a rule of thumb as to when I should be defining methods vs using conditionals? I'm not really reusing my code, I'm just working my way though the Euler problems and learning Ruby. I don't want to pick up any bad habits though :/
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<XxionxX>
Most of my projects are one offs for each individual Euler problem.
<soahccc>
I created a gem to generate usernames and it used to generate 50k words... One pull request later => 1.5 million... I feel useless now
<shevy>
XxionxX it depends, in general the shorter you can write code, the better
<shevy>
sometimes there is no simple way to avoid having to do multiple if/elsif's
<shevy>
if you think that methods make your code more logical, then I would most definitely use methods
<shevy>
if you can make the code shorter by using methods, then I would also consider using methods
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<apeiros_>
nice, `post = User.first.posts.create! text: "Hallelujah"` works
<XxionxX>
soahccc: 30 seconds in and you are in Hawaii. As someone in a frozen server room... -_-
<shevy>
there is a rule of thumb saying that short methods are a good thing
<XxionxX>
soahccc: Jk sounds like you are having a great time!
<apeiros_>
(and no, that's neither AR, nor Sequel, nor ROM, nor Datamapper)
<shevy>
ewwww
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<shevy>
.create!
<soahccc>
XxionxX: It's summer at least in your head :)
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<soahccc>
shevy: what do you have against create!?
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<XxionxX>
shevy: That is the thing, methods wouldn't seem to make my code too much shorter :/
<XxionxX>
I guess I'll just use my best judgment.
<centrx>
create!? should be allowed
<shevy>
hey I have a question
<shevy>
(1..10).to_a
<soahccc>
XxionxX: keep in mind that you read your code more often than you write it.... the more explicit it is, the better. watch the video and you see that the code tends to grow bigger but it pays out in the long run
<shevy>
this makes an Array from 1 to 10; is there an alternative way through Array.new to do the same?
<shevy>
so that we would generate [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
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<centrx>
shevy, [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 9, 10] would be faster
<shevy>
:)
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<shevy>
XxionxX I like methods because they provide logical chunks that group up code and code behaviour, especially in a class. Do you use a class for your task?
<soahccc>
TIL: range has a .cover? method
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<XxionxX>
shevy No classes yet
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<pontiki>
hello o/ :)
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<ericmathison>
Before I post a bug report to bugs.ruby-lang.org, would someone mind double checking my assumption that &$ was supposed to be $& on line 4216 of string.c?
<tejas-manohar>
apeiros_: i checked wrong thing at wrong time
<apeiros_>
happens
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<tejas-manohar>
apeiros: my sinatra app is a subscription service that texts out the top imgur gif daily -- i want to create a process that loops thru orchestrate db (ik how to get phone numbers as an array) and texts each person (ik code to do this) every day at x time (how do i manage reocurring events on time x)
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<tejas-manohar>
apeiros: ^ additioanlly, i'll be deploying to heroku. i was thinking cron/heroku scheduler? does that seem right? but since cron/scheduler works on every x minutes/seconds/miliseconds that's not exactly right i think... i want to make it shoot out at a certain time of the day every day and wil restart app often when deploying new versions
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<tejas-manohar>
not often, but want to be able to at leisure
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<tejas-manohar>
maybe some sort of long-running process?
<katlex>
hello, where is the rails channel?
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<katlex>
#rails says inv only
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<tejas-manohar>
katlex: register your nickname
<tejas-manohar>
katlex: but the rails channel is #rubyonrails btw
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<katlex>
tejas-manohar, ah, thanks ..on their web irc they have: Network : Freenode Server : bear.freenode.net Channel : #rails
<apeiros_>
#rails forwards to #rubyonrails, but #rubyonrails requires nickreg, hence the "invite only" error.
<katlex>
oh okay, thank uou
<tejas-manohar>
oh, didn't know that :)
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<tejas-manohar>
but yeah either way, you gotta register username w/ nickserv
<apeiros_>
#ror too btw.
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<tejas-manohar>
oh apeiros_: earlier i mentioned you w/ a question but forgot _ in your name
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<apeiros_>
tejas-manohar: I get highlighted with that too
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<tejas-manohar>
ok np
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<apeiros_>
tejas-manohar: cron can fire at specific times each day.
<tejas-manohar>
apeiros_: hmm it does use self.cron in its code so i guess i can't run this on heroku?
<apeiros_>
tejas-manohar: I don't know heroku, and I don't know whenever
<tejas-manohar>
apeiros_: np but say i want to explicitly avoid cron, do you have any other ideas? otherwise its fine just wondering
<godd2>
Here's a random thought: Intentionally introduce easy-to-fix, low-severity bugs into your open source projects so that less experienced programmers can be part of contributing to the code base.
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<wasamasa>
one does not need to do that intentionally
<apeiros_>
tejas-manohar: you can always reinvent cron in ruby
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<godd2>
wasamasa you make a good point
<wasamasa>
I stumble upon bugs all the time when using new utilities
<wasamasa>
even more so when using emacs
<apeiros_>
IMO not a good idea @ godd2
<wasamasa>
and it's kind of fun
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<wasamasa>
I've handed in three bug reports yesterday for packages related to it :P
<tejas-manohar>
apeiros_: hmm, i could... so how does it work exactly? run a clock to tick every second or someting?
<wasamasa>
so, to summarize my point, I assume teaching people rigor and debugging will result in more bugs getting found and fixed
<apeiros_>
tejas-manohar: that's your design decision
<tejas-manohar>
apeiros_: sure
<godd2>
wasamasa well the goal of my idea was to encourage a more techincally diverse ecosystem of contributors.
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<Synchunk>
Hey, I'm new to ruby and I'm trying to access a method from a Sinatra block, but I'm getting a NoMethodError. I tried declaring the method as "public", that didn't change anything. Any ideas? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/d98d67d337503b6286a9
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<Synchunk>
Also.. any ops around? A bot in this channel seems to spam people per PM when they write anything in here.
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<godd2>
Synchunk you've defined responses as an instance method, but you're not calling it from an instance
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<Synchunk>
Oh. Is that like.. static in Java? *embarassed*
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<godd2>
Synchunk yes, when you extend a module, it adds static methods
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<Synchunk>
Should I try def self.responses?
<godd2>
That would define it as a class method yes
<godd2>
that's what we call static methods in Ruby
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<godd2>
apeiros_ dont worry, I agree it was a terrible idea to add bugs like that :P
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<Synchunk>
Hmmm, still the same error. Do I need to make it public or something?
<godd2>
methods are public by default
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<Synchunk>
Hmmmm
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<godd2>
Synchunk are you using cinch-plugins ?
<Synchunk>
yeah
<Synchunk>
This is supposed to become a GitHub plugin that sends your pulls to a channel
<godd2>
Synchunk oh cool, yea I've seen those before. There's one in the #opal channel
<Synchunk>
And in #znc :)
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<godd2>
Synchunk can you modify your gist to closer to what you have now?
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<godd2>
oh nvm, you made an anon one. just make a new one
<Synchunk>
^ that was the bot I was talking about, hah
<Synchunk>
mhm
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<Synchunk>
basically, I only changed def responses() to def self.responses() - I also tried calling the method with "self." which didn't work either. Pasting now :)
<Synchunk>
godd2, thanks for your help with the self keyword :)
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<godd2>
no problem, though I'd still put that on an index card to look up later
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<godd2>
My hunch is that you shouldn't have to call the class name explicitly
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<godd2>
since you're "inside" that class. but maybe it has to do with the scope of the block. I'm not sure
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<godd2>
looks like Sinatra passes that block around a few times before it finally calls define_method passing the block one last time. by then the receiver is Sinatra::Base so that block doesn't know who Cinch::Github is anymore (unless you reference explicitly)
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<Synchunk>
Hmmm okay
<Synchunk>
Confusing :)
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<Synchunk>
Thanks for all your help :3
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<godd2>
always here to help! (when I'm awake)
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<Hello_World>
hi
<Synchunk>
Hello, Hello_World!
<Synchunk>
uh, is there an easy way for testing if a multidimensional array contains a key, for example info['parent']['child'] (I'm trying to assign it to a variable, but assign nil instead of it doesn't exist)
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<Hello_World>
you mean checking if it contains a value/element?
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<Synchunk>
yeah, something like: set the child variable to info['parent']['child'], if that doesn't exist, set child to nil instead
<Synchunk>
or don't set child at all..
<godd2>
Synchunk variables are nil by default, and hash and array lookups return nil if they dont find anything
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<Hello_World>
I don't follow
<Synchunk>
but if parent is nil and I try to access nil['child'], won't that raise an exception?
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<godd2>
Synchunk oh yea that's true
<Synchunk>
Hello_World, trying to access var['parent']['child'] without getting an exception if parent doesn't exist
<Synchunk>
Hello_World, and without manually checking if parent exists, if possible
<Hello_World>
Synchunk: so the idea is to loop through a 2d array and check if the calue at index[parent][child] equals the paramenter, return true?
<Synchunk>
Almost. I want to set the parameter to index[parent][child]
<Synchunk>
and don't set it if either parent or child are missing
<wasamasa>
Hello_World: honestly though, what answer did you expect on this channel
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<Hello_World>
wasamasa: what do you mean?
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<wasamasa>
Hello_World: I'll leave that to you as an exercise why people on the #ruby channel state their language is the best
<Fraeon>
It's a tool
<Fraeon>
Like a hammer
<Fraeon>
Good for some things, bad for others
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<Hello_World>
wasamasa: oops im using new client software I was reading that in the context of a different channel
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<Hello_World>
wasamasa: do you prefer ruby or another language?
<wasamasa>
Hello_World: I prefer ruby for the things it's good for
<apeiros_>
Fraeon: if ruby is a hammer, all problems are a nail!
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<Fraeon>
For some problems you might need to use an assplug
<Fraeon>
(Forth)
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<apeiros_>
you can use a hammer to ram it in!
<apeiros_>
needs more !. here: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hello_World>
oh yeah I was listening to the ruby rogues as I have been for a while and they just keep listing ways that ruby is not good.
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<Hello_World>
So what is ruby especially good at (apart from wed dev)
<certainty>
Hello_World: writing hello world programs
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<Hello_World>
presumable
<Hello_World>
presumable
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<apeiros_>
writing fizzbuzz & fibonacci
<certainty>
Hello_World: but apart from that. It's a very practical and reasonably concise language (that's what i like about it).
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<Hello_World>
but it is no better at fizz buzz than python is
<certainty>
one of its strengths is probably it dynamicity (is that a word?)
<apeiros_>
to feed or not to feed, that is the question
<Hello_World>
in that everything can be modified at run time
<certainty>
of course to feed
<Hello_World>
Yeah I heard metaprogramming in ruby is awesome
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<Hello_World>
but metaprogramming is mostly used for IDEs and I imagine ruby isn't used for IDEs much
<certainty>
i don't know where metaprogramming is mostly used for. I use it sometimes. I don't build IDEs
<certainty>
s/ere/at/
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<Hello_World>
I quite like to conciceness and syntax of ruby
<Hello_World>
but the syntax of a language doesn't determine its applications or does it?
<certainty>
hmm i'm unsure
<godd2>
metaprogramming can be used to call methods that dont exist. it's how rails used to call table fields on sql tables like user.email without you writing def email in the user class
* apeiros_
uses metaprogramming to make those methods exist
<Hello_World>
why would you want to call methods that don't exist?
<Hello_World>
to have a preexisting framework for a multitude of uses that may never come into being?
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<godd2>
Hello_World so that you can treat sql fields like method calls even with new tables
<Hello_World>
oh I see
<apeiros_>
so you can receive methods for things you don't know at the time of writing that they will be needed as methods
<godd2>
in a sense it's saying "no matter what method is called, look up that method in the table and if it's a field name, grab the value"
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<Hello_World>
what are 'dynamic languages' good at, besides web dev?
<Hello_World>
rapid prototyping?
<certainty>
explorative stuff
<apeiros_>
Hello_World: what are static languages good at, besides writing OSes?
<godd2>
Hello_World dynamic only says something about the type system
<Hello_World>
I guess I would say embedded software, gaming, oses, graphical applications, etc
<certainty>
godd2: well i don't know i'd count introspection capabilities in here too
<apeiros_>
ruby is good for everything except drivers & OSes
<certainty>
in the dynamic vs. static thing.
<godd2>
Yea I wouldn't recommend Ruby for the Mars Rover
<certainty>
also scoping
<apeiros_>
games: depends already what kind of game. if you want to write something like assassins creed, yeah, then ruby won't cut it.
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<apeiros_>
if you want to write something like chess - no problem.
<Hello_World>
what about high-performance programs like games or daws stuff like that needs c++
<apeiros_>
Hello_World: do you write such programs?
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<Hello_World>
apeiros: no
<certainty>
yow workmad3
<apeiros_>
Hello_World: then why does it matter to you?
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<apeiros_>
Hello_World: do you not buy the hammer because you think "oh my, but that won't build me a skyscraper"?
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<Hello_World>
Well, I would like to write some embedded programs for fun
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<apeiros_>
then you probably want none of java, python, ruby
<certainty>
Hello_World: it's also a good choice if uncertain domains. Like when you don't know much about what you will need
<certainty>
in
<Hello_World>
Java was originally designed as an embedded language
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<Hello_World>
godd2: thats a cool app
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<apeiros_>
Hello_World: um, where did you hear that nonsense?
<Hello_World>
apeiros: I was listening to a speech by james gosling
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<apeiros_>
are you sure he said *embedded*? because that's a resource constrained env. java makes about the least sense there.
<Hello_World>
yeah
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<certainty>
java used to run in washing machines
<Hello_World>
By the time it became public it was mostly targeted for the internet
<Hello_World>
But originally java was supposed to replace c++
<certainty>
at least that's rumor
<Hello_World>
But I guess it was too slow
<apeiros_>
you see, even embedded java wants 32MB+ RAM
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<apeiros_>
that's a ridiculous amount for many embedded systems
<Hello_World>
well what about mRUBY
<apeiros_>
well, seems there's now a Micro Edition which will run with 8MB too
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<certainty>
i know it's used to contrel kidney dialyse systems
<Hello_World>
thats supposed to be ruby on embedded systems right?
<certainty>
control, even
<apeiros_>
I think the idea of "embedded" mruby is more as in "embedd in your C/C++ app". like e.g. WoW uses Lua.
<apeiros_>
but yeah, I could imagine that mruby could be used on sufficiently equipped embedded devices.
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<apeiros_>
but I didn't keep track wrt mruby
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<certainty>
does the OS count as an app?
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<Hello_World>
in any case, the idea is so that you can program on embedded systems getting by without c/c++
<Guest64>
What's wrong with C?
<Hello_World>
Memory management I guess
<Guest64>
Are you familiar with C?
<Hello_World>
As long as there has been C there have been people trying to figure out how to code in it
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<Hello_World>
I took a course in c
<Guest64>
So you've written some simple things in C before?
<Hello_World>
yup I've written some search implementations and data structure implementations
<Guest64>
So what's wrong with C? It's a great language.
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<Hello_World>
its fun to program in c
<Guest64>
Well there you go.
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<Hello_World>
theres nothing wrong with c, I was just saying that mruby is written to avoid having to write a program in c++
<Hello_World>
I wasn't talking about myself personally
<Guest64>
Well mruby is intended for you to embed in a C or C++ app.
<Guest64>
But it comes with an interpreter and an IRB as examples
<Hello_World>
so if you use mruby than you write less c++?
<certainty>
every C programmer should be obliged to take at least an introductionary course in software security
<certainty>
it's so damn hard to write secure software with it. Writing secure software is a reasonably hard task in almost every PL but C makes it even harder
<Hello_World>
huh
<Hello_World>
even harder than c++?
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<certainty>
Hello_World: yes. But they're in the same ballpark
<certainty>
obviously since they share alot
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<Guest64>
If you use mruby, then your C or C++ app can call ruby scripts.
<Hello_World>
right - scripts that would otherwise have to be written in c++!
<Guest64>
Scripts aren't typcally written in C or C++.
<Hello_World>
what are they written in?
<Hello_World>
for embedded programming that is
<Guest64>
Scripts are written in things like Ruby, bash, AppleScript, Python, Lua, etc.
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<Guest64>
Lua's supposed to be a fast scripting language.
<Hello_World>
does lua run on embedded programs?
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<Guest64>
With good metaprogramming
<Guest64>
Look it up, decide for yourself. Go to the Lua website.
<Guest64>
Plenty of examples on what it's used for over there.
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<certainty>
some schemes are also frequently used as embedded languages
<certainty>
just for the record
<Hello_World>
my point is that scripts that you write in mruby would have to be written in c++ if mruby didn't exist (or a similar alternative)
<workmad3>
lua is pretty popular as an easily embeddable scripting language for games
<Hello_World>
and so if people were really content programming embedded systems with c++ than they wouldn't come up with things like mruby
<Guest64>
No, you don't write scripts in C or C++. Then it's not a "script" anymore.
<workmad3>
Hello_World: I think you're conflating the term 'embedded' as its used in 'embedded systems' and as it's used in 'embeddable scripting language'
<Hello_World>
no it would be called something else
<workmad3>
Hello_World: they're two different things
<Guest64>
workmad +1
<Hello_World>
Yeah I mean to have been saying embedded systems
<certainty>
i use ruby to embedd my bugs
<Guest64>
Hello_World, you could just write your scripts in Shell.
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<workmad3>
Hello_World: it would be rare and unusual to embed a scripting language like ruby or lua into an embedded systems project... the hardware constraints are normally too tight to allow the sort of overheads that mruby or lua would require
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<certainty>
and as almost every language has a way to invoke the shell, it's probably the most widely available embeddable scripting language
<Areessell>
Uhh MRuby is meant for embedded systems
<Guest64>
Depending on how constrained the hardware is. You'd just use C for complex software and Shell for simple scripts.
<workmad3>
Areessell: isn't mruby meant for being embedded in C++ as a scripting language?
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<workmad3>
(or C)
<Guest64>
workmad3, that's what it says on the github page
<certainty>
uh, C for complex software. shudder :)
<certainty>
but it's done anyway
<Areessell>
What does C++ have to do wit it? I'ts written in pure C
<Guest64>
"mruby can be linked and embedded within your application. We provide the interpreter program "mruby" and the interactive mruby shell "mirb" as examples."
<Hello_World>
mruby targets game developers (to use instead of Lua), embedded application developers (devices, TV, phones..) and small memory footprint server applications (instead of JS for instance).
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<Hello_World>
I was just saying c++ as an example
<Hello_World>
I could have said c
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<workmad3>
ah yeah, I forget that things like set-top boxes and tvs count as embedded system devices nowadays... I was thinking in terms of remote sensors, pacemakers, etc :)
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<Areessell>
Have you ever played wround with it?
<certainty>
with pacemakers? god no!
<Areessell>
lol
<workmad3>
hehe
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<certainty>
i don't know about this stuff but isn't realtime stuff also pretty much a requirement in embedded things?
<certainty>
also using the word stuff often, makes me sound like a professional
<Hello_World>
But in the future don't you think we could use more scripting languages for embedded systems?
<Areessell>
MRuby compiles to machine code, yanno that right? It's pretty damn fast
<workmad3>
certainty: can be... but in things like mobiles there can be a good distinction between the hard-realtime stuff and the rest of the system
<workmad3>
Areessell: realtime != fast
<certainty>
workmad3: now i was talking about sensors, pacemakers and things
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<certainty>
:)
<workmad3>
Areessell: realtime (or at least hard-realtime) == absolute constraints on the amount of time certain operations can take before the system is effectively a catastrophic failure
<Hello_World>
or maybe the constrains of hardware will always keep it as C/C++
<certainty>
Hello_World: yeah for tvs and mopile phones and such things. I think thats a reasonable assumption to make
<workmad3>
on phones, the GSM chips are hard-realtime... and they're allowed to interrupt the application threads at pretty much any time they want
<certainty>
anyway, time to make cookies with the kids
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<Hello_World>
bye
<Guest64>
No, for those kinds of embedded things, your programming is pressed directly into the silicon.
<Areessell>
Press it right in
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<workmad3>
Guest64: flashable FPGAs are getting more common for a lot of these things
<Hello_World>
yeah I sure you could press a scripting language into silicon if you wanted
<workmad3>
Guest64: because the devs realise it's useful to be able to reprogram them without pressing more chips :)
<Guest64>
I don't think things like pacemakers and TV remotes are running a full-fledged OS with a shell.
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<Guest64>
Those are devices that never need to be updated or reprogrammed, so their programming is built right in.
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<Hello_World>
less bugs that way i guess
<workmad3>
Guest64: pacemakers nowadays do accept remote code updates, I believe
<workmad3>
Guest64: at least in limited forms
<Guest64>
That's kind of scary. Imagine your pacemaker gets a virus :(
<workmad3>
imagine your pacemaker had a bug and you needed open-heart surgery to replace it?
<Hello_World>
ye that does seem problematic
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<Guest64>
If your pacemaker has a bug, well, then someone's liable for death already.
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<workmad3>
Guest64: we're not talking OTA wifi updates here though... we're talking about special frequency data-transmissions via short-range electromagnetic pulses ):
<Guest64>
Liable for criminal negligence rather.
<workmad3>
*:)
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<Guest64>
Cyanogenmod, now coming to pacemakers near you!
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<rtbt>
How would I define variables in a app based on the input of the user, such as if I wanted to make an email app that sent an email the user would type "app.rb <email>"?
<Guest64>
Includes Lollipop update!
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<Guest64>
rtbt, you mean passing arguments?
<rtbt>
Guest64: basically, yes.
<Guest64>
ARGV
<Guest64>
I think.
<Guest64>
I'm not an experienced Ruby developer :-)
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<rtbt>
Alright, thanks :)
<Guest64>
But I think that's what you're looking for
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<Hello_World>
ls
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<Hello_World>
hello
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<ponga>
Hello_World
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<shevy>
hello ponga
<ponga>
oh
<ponga>
hi shevy
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<ponga>
shevy: im installing 2.2.0rc1
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<shevy>
does it work?
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<ponga>
shevy i said im insatlling ser
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<shevy>
does it work?
<shevy>
:-)
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<shevy>
sorry I can't wait
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<ponga>
have patience ser
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<ponga>
i hear that 2.2.0rc1 isn't working for you shevy
<ponga>
did you fix it yet?
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<shevy>
I didn't try again
<ponga>
wtf
<ponga>
shevy:
<shevy>
I need smarter people whose 2.2.x will work
<shevy>
then they can tell me why it does not work for me
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<shevy>
the problem with yaml is that it is critical for me to continue working with invalid yaml files. I made the mistake to store all my configuration dataset in yaml file, and ruby generates rc-files and other files for bash etc.., hence why I needed syck. tenderlove made a syck gem which works fine on 2.1.5
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<certainty>
shevy: are you going to convert all your yaml config to some other format or will you continue using invalid yaml?
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<shevy>
well
<shevy>
I like the simplicity of yaml
<shevy>
I dislike that it forces you into unicode
<ponga>
ah hah
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<shevy>
certainty yaml is rather efficient for storing what is necessary. I also get ruby data structures through yaml
<shevy>
certainty I don't really know of another format that can compete with yaml there. json always looked uglier, XML is the worst
<ponga>
thumbs up shevy for XML is the worst
<crome_>
there is always jsonx
<crome_>
it beats everything out there
<shevy>
certainty perhaps I will just dig into psych and use a patch to allow it to not reject invalid yaml. syck didn't care about unicode vs. non-unicode
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<certainty>
shevy: hmm sounds not like good (painless) future
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<shevy>
certainty ah, I had that with ruby 1.8.7, it worked super well for me. I could only switch because of tenderlove's gem - who knows, perhaps he can update syck too :D
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<shevy>
and 2.1.5 isn't that old is it?
<crome_>
shevy: indeed, the smart guys at IBM thought it would be a good idea :D
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<certainty>
eww
<shevy>
yeah well
<ponga>
i always wonder what shevy codes in ruby
<shevy>
<json:object>
<shevy>
that is fucking horrible
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<shevy>
ponga dunno. everything really. yesterday I continued to add test cases for my pipe in ruby
<crome_>
just thinkg about all the possibilities, now you can store content in json, convert it to jsonx and you can transform it with xslt!
<shevy>
test 'read_file :this_file | show_lines 30-40'
<deepy>
shevy: write a jsonx library in ruby
<ponga>
crome_: sounds like an aweful lot of workload
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<shevy>
ponga and right now I continue working on my MUD in ruby, which I started as my second project after an IRC bot; sadly I am in the process of porting ancient code that just sucks... right now I populate a file called weapons.yml
<ponga>
shevy: what is MUD briefly plz
<ccooke>
shevy: ah, another person who started with an IRC bot :-)
<shevy>
old text game; multi user dungeon. was popular in the 1990s, nowadays it's semi-extinct
<ponga>
ah
<ponga>
mud game!
<shevy>
ccooke yeah. I tried to write one in PHP and failed
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<shevy>
and it worked in ruby after perhaps a month or so
<ponga>
shevy: why PHP
<ponga>
you always bash PHP
<shevy>
PHP was actually easy
<shevy>
yeah
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<ponga>
wait, you seem to bash them all
<ponga>
PHP Perl Java
<shevy>
well save for one thing - I also always say that PHP got the web focus right
<certainty>
i almost always build irc bots of some kind to test langaueges
<shevy>
ponga nonono that is not true in general, they may still be useful in some ways
<shevy>
ponga I also was more productive in PHP than in perl
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<certainty>
you mean like more bugs per LoC?
* certainty
hides
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<ponga>
omg
<shevy>
hmm no
<shevy>
the net result worked better than what I produced in perl
<ccooke>
I wrote my first IRC bot in shell script, because I lost a bet
<shevy>
I was always fighting with perl's syntax
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<shevy>
it never felt right
<deepy>
I've always been more productive in python than php
<crome_>
ccooke: :DD
<shevy>
ccooke haha
<shevy>
yesterday I learned a bash thing though... seq 1 10
<certainty>
about time
<ponga>
shevy
<shevy>
bash even has .step
<ccooke>
shevy: heh. Or {1..10}
<ponga>
it it weird of me to hate SQL
<shevy>
seq 5 5 20
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<deepy>
ponga: what SQL server do you generally use?
<ponga>
i only used SQLite in my life just for data storage
<deepy>
Then you should hate SQLite
<ponga>
and i never could get used to this query shit
<shevy>
I used postgresql 9 months ago or so, it is actually quite nice
<crome_>
seq is not bash
<crome_>
it's coreutils
<shevy>
crome_ really?
<crome_>
yep
<ponga>
i simply can't like querying
<deepy>
postgresql is a dream, MySQL/SQLite is a nightmare
<shevy>
cool
<shevy>
so bash has even one less thing going for it now :-)
<ccooke>
shevy: it's true. And requires a fork() every time it's used. try "echo {1..10}", though - that's a builtin construct of the parser
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<crome_>
even test , aka [ is not part of the shell
<shevy>
ah ok... that is almost like ruby
<ccooke>
crome_: not quite. /bin/test exists, but [ and [[ and (( are builtins - no fork
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<ponga>
ok shevy i installed 2.2.0-rc1
<ponga>
what next
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<shevy>
does irb work ponga?
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<elastik>
Hello
<ponga>
2.2.0-rc1 :001 > puts "hello world"
<ponga>
hello world
<ponga>
=> nil
<ponga>
2.2.0-rc1 :002 >
<ponga>
yes shevy
<ccooke>
crome_: historically, /bin/test was symlinked to /bin/[ and that's how it worked, but it became a builtin ages ago (which is why /bin/test supports different (usually fewer) options than the bash test and [ ] syntax)
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<ccooke>
heh. The IRC bot I wrote was actually a continuation of the shell script bot. Ended up porting all the features and settings. Yay inflated version numbers :-)
<crome_>
hmm, that sounds about right. thanks for the clarification
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* ccooke
is one of Those people who have written multi-thousand-line shell script projects
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<shevy>
damn ponga
<shevy>
ohhhhh
<shevy>
then I guess there must be something in my irbrc that does not work on 2.2.0
<ponga>
what's wrong shevy does even IRB not work on yours?
<shevy>
not sure, I forgot to test it without my irbrc
<shevy>
but I assume it will work if I try
<shevy>
ponga, does this work for you: YAML::ENGINE.yamler =
<shevy>
set it to anything please?
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<ponga>
2.2.0-rc1 :003 > YAML::ENGINE.yamler = 1
<ponga>
NameError: uninitialized constant YAML
<ponga>
from (irb):3
<ponga>
from /Users/Lud/.rvm/rubies/ruby-2.2.0-rc1/bin/irb:11:in `<main>'
<ponga>
shevy:
<ponga>
did i do it right
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<shevy>
can you require 'yaml' first and try again?
<ponga>
ok
<shevy>
not sure where YAML resides but I assume it is in yaml
<ponga>
uninitialized constant Psych::ENGINE
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<shevy>
aha!
<shevy>
that was the error I got
<ponga>
ok then its universal
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<shevy>
do you also have to do require 'psych' ?
<ponga>
glad i became your help
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<shevy>
well ok
<ponga>
i didn't require that yet wait
<shevy>
that is fine, I can adapt my irbrc
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<ponga>
i did require 'psych' and it returend false
<ponga>
2.2.0-rc1 :006 > require 'psych'
<ponga>
=> false
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<shevy>
I am confused
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<ponga>
oh ok shevy i required it
<ponga>
and still giving same error
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<shevy>
ok
<shevy>
well that error is new as far as I understand it. I did not get it on ruby 2.1.5
<shevy>
YAML::ENGINE.yamler = 1 # ArgumentError: bad engine
<ponga>
same as mine shevy i got uninit-blahblah
<shevy>
I think I will report it, something must have changed, perhaps nobu knows more
<ponga>
nobu sounds like a japanese person
<shevy>
btw ponga
<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
2.2.0-rc1 :006 > require 'psych' => false
<ponga>
btw what ser
<shevy>
^^^ that means that it already was required before
<shevy>
as you did not get an error
<shevy>
you got false, which means that it was already required
<ponga>
thanks shevy i figured that out myself soon after
<ponga>
before you told me so
<shevy>
nobu is Nobuyoshi Nakada, he is like matz' right hand for MRI (main ruby interpreter)
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<shevy>
Koichi Sasada is ko1 I think, I think he is also the guy who maintains ruby-gnome?
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<ponga>
shevy: if you ever need help in translating report into Japanese, call me
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<shevy>
I'll try communicating in broken english, that is still easier than japanese for me :-)
<ponga>
shevy: make sure not to use perfect tense / -ing verb-noun
<ponga>
it will confuse them
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<ponga>
:P
<ponga>
its true at least
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<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
I once tried to learn a bit of japanese
<shevy>
tabemasu means to eat right?
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<faris>
hai
<shevy>
I could count once... ichi ... ni ... san ... or something
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<faris>
u could make good conversation with baby japs
<shevy>
ponga I always confused it with korean due to taekwondo, we had to count in korean doing pushups... hana... dul ... set net dasot yosot ilgub yodul ahup yol ...
<ponga>
lol
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<shevy>
ponga do you know the algorithm march with ninjas?
<ponga>
what?
<ponga>
algorithm + march + ninja?
* ponga
is confused
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<shevy>
ponga https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8xtOinmByo <--- the second part shows the ninjas, that was one of the greatest things I ever saw... it's 7 or 8 years old by now though
<shevy>
unfortunately it seems as if ninjas are a lot more popular outside of Japan than in Japan
<ponga>
i can't understand it shevy
<ponga>
the joke the intention, i have no idea
<shevy>
ohhh
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<shevy>
it's creative! you have a group movement there where the individual moves fit one into the next
<ponga>
its somehow algorithmic or systematical rather
<shevy>
how do you call this... like when michael jackson died? and people organized on places dance
<shevy>
flash mob dance?
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<shevy>
though an algorithm dance is cooler... because it's like a riddle! try to come up with such a dance style where they fit together
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<ponga>
yeah flash mob got no dignity i agree
<ponga>
in flashmob they just rage in uncontrolled manner
<shevy>
I didn't see many, but the one in sweden after Michael Jackson died was quite cool. It reminded me of a big group of fish swimming away in the ocean from a large predator
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<workmad3>
shevy: not surprising that ninjas are more popular outside of japan... considering that ninjas were peasant assassins that basically terrorised japan while it occupied other places (at least, that's my understanding :) )
<ponga>
workmad3: more like they were just lame
<ponga>
samurai is more of a cooler figure actually
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<ponga>
and to be honest, you all started worshipping ninjas after naruto....
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<wasamasa>
no
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<deryl>
actually we started worshiping ninjas after chuck norris plaid one :)
<deryl>
err played
<shevy>
nonono
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<shevy>
did you guys forget the ninjas when michael dudikov or whatever was his name fought
<shevy>
they spawned out of nowhere!
<shevy>
or even older kung fu movie where ninjas respawned or where like 300cm tall
<ponga>
shevy: do you think turing machine can work as chatbot good enough to fool human
<ponga>
i personally do
<shevy>
nah
<shevy>
there is a big difference between real intelligence and faking real intelligence
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<ponga>
shevy: then how about one that does not fake to be human but speak good enough to give verbal care and consolation :P
<ponga>
i think we could manage that
<shevy>
dunno
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<shevy>
I don't really think the computers are built in a way to yield real intelligence
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<ponga>
me too
<ponga>
but i think it could do well to fool a man in grief
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<ponga>
shevy: i do believe that this binary logic isn't the way to yield intelligence
<shevy>
well you need real learning
<workmad3>
ponga: care to elaborate on what you think is lacking?
<workmad3>
also on what characterises 'real intelligence' vs 'faking intelligence'?
<ponga>
workmad3: i think that intelligence is a byproduct of biological bodyness
<workmad3>
ponga: ok... for what reasons?
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<wasamasa>
once the fake convinces others, it's worth more than the real thing
* wasamasa
totally didn't quote that from an anime
<ponga>
that if we were to ever yield AI, we need at least a body attached t oit
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<shevy>
workmad3 every time you learn something, you have a neurological adaptation
<ponga>
workmad3: i can't think of a intelligence system without instints from nerve system
<ponga>
and to emulate that, i think it needs at least a small frame of body
<workmad3>
ponga: so because you can't envisage it, it must be impossible?
<shevy>
for instance, taxi drivers have an enlarged hypothalamus area and more/stronger synapses in their myelin sheath in that area
<ponga>
workmad3: i stated 'i believe' good sir?
<shevy>
sorry
<shevy>
not hypothalamus but hippocampus area
<ponga>
throughout the conversation with shevy
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<workmad3>
shevy: right... and any time an artificial intelligence 'learned' something, it would cause a change within *its* inner workings, e.g. change of state on magnetic states :)
<workmad3>
ponga: right, I'm trying to drill down into why you believe X
<ponga>
why would you drill down
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<workmad3>
ponga: curiosity :)
<shevy>
workmad3 a machine can not really adapt
<workmad3>
shevy: why not?
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<shevy>
how can it? it has no neurons
<ponga>
and curiosity that i think comes from survival instinct
<ponga>
from biological frame
<workmad3>
shevy: what makes neurons so special though?
<shevy>
it has no way of true learning
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<ponga>
i stand with shevy
<workmad3>
shevy: why do you think that neurons are the only possible construct that can create 'true learning'?
<workmad3>
shevy: and what is 'true learning'?
<ponga>
i still do think we could find 'another way' or fake good enough but it won't be same to how we do it
<wasamasa>
considering animals who are mostly representable as finite state machines can adapt, I don't believe that to be a limitation
<shevy>
workmad3 accepting connections from multiple other neurons; ability to change their pacing of when it fires and when it does not; ability to work together or inhibit other areas
<ponga>
it would be alternative way
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<shevy>
workmad3 quite simple - please give an example of true learning in machines
<shevy>
you won't find one
<ausekd>
hey all, i'm trying to read the first 100 lines of a text file into an array, do something with it, then repeat the process but with the next 100 lines
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<ponga>
exactly wasamasa, i claim that it needs a bodyness
<workmad3>
shevy: right... but that doesn't mean it's *impossible*
<wasamasa>
ponga: no?
<workmad3>
shevy: just means that we don't actually know what the hell 'true learning' is yet to a sufficient degree to re-create it on a machine
<ausekd>
any advice how to best achieve this?
<ni291187>
slm
<ponga>
what no wasamasa did i tell something incorrect
<wasamasa>
ponga: if that were a hard limitation, I'd not have a working spam filter
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<wasamasa>
ponga: that would be pretty bad, don't you think
<ponga>
wasamasa: i didn't say it was hard nor impossible
<workmad3>
ponga: I'm trying to figure out what causes you to claim it needs a 'bodyness'
<wasamasa>
ponga: no google filtering out spam mails for me
<wasamasa>
ponga: that would really suck
<ponga>
i said it'd at least need body
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<shevy>
wasamasa google filter is intelligent?
<wasamasa>
shevy: it's not interns punching in rules
<workmad3>
ponga: i.e. what aspect of 'intelligence' do you class as being intrinsically embodied?
<ponga>
workmad3: so its artificial nerve system could work
<workmad3>
(hell, what characterises 'intelligence'?)
<shevy>
workmad3 animal behaviour
<wasamasa>
workmad3: the fact that once a problem can be solved by software, it's no longer an intelligence problem
<wasamasa>
workmad3: like, captchas
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<shevy>
you can make captchas more complicated
<shevy>
and then your old algorithms won't help
<shevy>
but it won't learn to adapt to it on its own
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<workmad3>
I've personally yet to come across anything that can really characterise what 'intelligence' is... just lots of things that state 'it's not X' or 'it's not Y'... without knowing what intelligence (and, in other arguments, consciousness) *is* how can you make sweeping claims that it needs X or Y?
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<shevy>
whereas humans could solve it (well most humans could. I can't, I have no patience for captchas)
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<wasamasa>
it does actually, optical character recognition is one of the first examples where software has been used to train itself on existing data
<workmad3>
shevy: plenty of neural networks show adaptive problem solving behaviour :P
<shevy>
intelligence is the very ability to solve problems on your own
<ponga>
workmad3: to say what intelligence is i say the advanced survival instinct that we have is what it is
<shevy>
workmad3 they all need algorithms
<workmad3>
shevy: just in limited frames of reference
<ponga>
i believe this is it
* wasamasa
stares blankly at shevy
<shevy>
all what these do is attempt to fake biological learning processes
<shevy>
because it is easier to try and steal existing ideas than solve problems completely de-novo
<wasamasa>
until they fake it so good that they surpass humans, yeah
<wasamasa>
sure
<workmad3>
ponga: ok... so what exactly is that?
<ponga>
and im saying again is that it could be 'another way'
<ponga>
but not 'same' as ours
<shevy>
yeah wasamasa but you can't do that for all problems given
<workmad3>
ponga: what defines it explicitly? what characterises it?
<shevy>
wasamasa for chess programs it works
<wasamasa>
shevy: sure, with enough data and smarts, you can
<workmad3>
ponga: rather than a hand-wavey 'humans have intelligence, which is an advanced survival instinct'...
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<wasamasa>
shevy: it's why google is progressing in a way old concepts from the eighties couldn't
<shevy>
wasamasa is this intelligence?
<shevy>
right but programmers feed in new behaviour and change existing one all the time
<ponga>
could you define it workmad3 then
<workmad3>
ponga: i.e. can you give a precise definition of 'intelligence' that contains specific criteria to assess against?
<wasamasa>
shevy: from a technical view, yes
<workmad3>
ponga: no
<workmad3>
ponga: I can't
<wasamasa>
shevy: from a philosophical one, fuck you
<workmad3>
ponga: I don't believe we understand it well enough to provide such a definition
<shevy>
no this is from a technical view
<workmad3>
ponga: which is kinda my point
<shevy>
I see no real intelligence when you have to feed in new behaviour by humans
<ponga>
can't agree more
<ponga>
its my opinion
<workmad3>
ponga: until we understand it well enough, I don't see how *anyone* can make sweeping statements about what it *requires* though
<wasamasa>
shevy: uh, people get fed information by their surroundings?
<shevy>
what they do is adapt to a given problem domain and know that it works well; it's like testing in software
<ponga>
workmad3: i can
<wasamasa>
shevy: what the hell do you think parents are doing with their children?
<shevy>
wasamasa precisely. and they learn from it
<ponga>
and stop calling my nickname like every 3 secs like bitch
<workmad3>
hehe
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<ponga>
i hate these bitches
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<ponga>
and now i can't have a lightweight conversation with my pal shevy?
<ponga>
is is racist for an asian man of japanese culture to make a mockery of japanese culture
<workmad3>
wasamasa: do you reckon ponga /ignored you too) :)
<ponga>
i thought it was humanity's good old humour
<wasamasa>
workmad3: I don't care
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<ponga>
oh and how do i unignore
<workmad3>
wasamasa: :D
<wasamasa>
workmad3: I'm just pointing out two poignant examples that summarize the previous "discussion"
<shevy>
ponga oooh ... it is actually a cleaning robot that just looks human, right?
<felltir>
it's pretty rubbish to make racist jokes in general
<ponga>
shevy: professor who wrote a paper in it said in the interview that it looks human to serve a sexual slave
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<shevy>
aha
<ponga>
and submissive, as always
<shevy>
man that gets complicated
<shevy>
I thought a cleaning robot should, well ... be able to clean efficiently
<ponga>
shevy: can you teach me how to un ignore
<wasamasa>
workmad3: probably because I'm sick of it and the mainstream perception of the field
<wasamasa>
ponga: /unignore nick
<shevy>
no idea sorry. I don't use /ignore really
<ponga>
hm
* wasamasa
waits for a reaction
<workmad3>
wasamasa: same :)
<ponga>
oh workmad3 hi!
<workmad3>
ponga: o/
<ponga>
my deepest apology
<shevy>
everyone is reunited again \o/
<workmad3>
ponga: don't worry, I found it amusing ;)
<ponga>
i just couldnt stand you calling me every 3 secs
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<workmad3>
ponga: sorry... it's a habit I have when I'm having a conversation with someone and there's multiple streams going on
<ponga>
shevy: they thought it'd be critically important for them to be able to serve 'refreshment' role
<ponga>
haha
<workmad3>
(or, in this case, when I was butting into someone else's conversation ;) )
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<shevy>
ponga ok I think I should rephrase it slightly ... I can understand the need for robots. What I could not understand it was the appeal to have robots look human-likes or fake-human likes
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<shevy>
I mean you could build intelligent robots that would not have to look like humans?
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<wasamasa>
it helps the general acceptance if they look humanoid
<workmad3>
shevy: there are plenty of psychological effects that could be exploited by having human-like robots... such as in the case of robot care-workers
<shevy>
wasamasa it actually scares me, some of them really look like human beings unless you look very closely
<wasamasa>
shevy: here comes the uncanny valley!
<ponga>
shevy: having arms and legs i do see practical reasons of adapting human daily chores but your query of the look.. i do agree but
<ponga>
they just want it
<ponga>
or more like we
<shevy>
ponga well I can understand two legs -> able to climb stairs... if you have a wheel robot it gets harder
<shevy>
ponga do you know that jumping dog thingy?
<workmad3>
plenty of tasks are automatable with much better forms that human forms... e.g. roomba, dishwashers...
<wasamasa>
shevy: it happens to me every time I try watching one of those full-cgi movies
<wasamasa>
shevy: I just can't stand that look
<workmad3>
wasamasa: the first time I encountered uncanny valley was in computer-graphics :)
<shevy>
ponga only crappy thing is that it is really loud and noisy
<ponga>
and annoying shevy
<ponga>
and not cuty
<shevy>
hehe
<ponga>
hehe
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<wasamasa>
like, beowulf
<ponga>
oh and shevy why would you not want a human looking AI companion?
<ponga>
you can, you do
<wasamasa>
or that one resident evil one
<ponga>
i mean if you could, you do it
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<workmad3>
wasamasa: Final Fantasy: Spirits Within? :)
<wasamasa>
workmad3: did not play that
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<shevy>
ponga dunno... not really. I am way too sceptical... do you know alzheimer disease? Where people forget who they are? You can no longer have a real conversation with them in the late stage of the disease
<workmad3>
wasamasa: it was the first FF film, not a game
<ponga>
what's that got to do with having sex robot shevy
<wasamasa>
workmad3: so I don't know of any movies
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<shevy>
ponga I don't understand it
<ponga>
i mean, i was having this conversation with japanese dev the other day and we were like 'they wouldn't ask for more money after initial payment, sounds far better than real woman, innit?'
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<workmad3>
but yeah... there's a reason most CGI films have things like talking dogs, talking toys, robots, etc. and are light on human characters
<workmad3>
and uncanny valley is pretty much the entire reason :)
<wasamasa>
shevy: pah, you haven't seen a RealDoll™
<diegoviola>
why is everyone doing JS these days, it's like going back to the 90s when JS was the shit
<shevy>
ponga not really hahaha. it's like one of those mysteries in life I don't quite understand
<shevy>
diegoviola because every browser has it
<ponga>
lol wasamasa
<ponga>
come on shevy its very simple thing
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<ponga>
shevy: they wouldn't get mad at how you didn't answer her text soon
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<ponga>
you see this coming?
<diegoviola>
shevy: we can always re-think how browsers do things
<diegoviola>
having only one language that browsers understand is silly
<diegoviola>
imagine if this was the case for server-side
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<shevy>
ponga I dunno. I just don't think there is any real intelligence for the forseeable time in such things; it sounds more like playing a video game to me
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<workmad3>
diegoviola: agreed... but the problem is a case of adoption
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<ponga>
ok then shevy
<wasamasa>
diegoviola: good luck convincing browser vendors to create something different and adopt it
<shevy>
ponga you more sound like describing how to handle a car when you are driving :)
<wasamasa>
diegoviola: while you're at it, replace html and css, too
<shevy>
CSS I like
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<diegoviola>
wasamasa: I'm not going that far
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<wasamasa>
diegoviola: and give them an actual reason for forfeiting compatibility with the rest of the internet
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<shevy>
diegoviola how can you change the www? how many browsers are there... chrome ... firefox... those are the two big ones right?
<diegoviola>
shevy: yup
<Hanmac>
shevy: i installed my pc again ... did took me long enough ;P
<shevy>
hanmac YOU ARE BACK
<ponga>
sorry shevy i use safari
<workmad3>
diegoviola: every browser *already* has JS... for another language to gain enough adoption to be worthwhile writing pretty much anything outside of trivial apps or internal apps in would likely take about a decade
<shevy>
ponga yeah but I think less people use safari than firefox
<ponga>
shevy: ie share is still large among poeple aye?
<ponga>
what?
<shevy>
probably some
<ponga>
less than 10%?
<ponga>
wow
<shevy>
well for that particular site
<shevy>
it's surely higher in like old networks
<workmad3>
diegoviola: that said, there's been plenty of work in recent years in getting other languages to compile down to JS... give that sort of tech a bit longer to mature and the older browsers that can't do JS well enough for that to vanish down to insignificant amounts, and I'd bet the browser languages will open up on the dev front at least :)
<ponga>
how did it decline so much in recent years?!
<shevy>
2002, Internet Explorer 86.7 %
<workmad3>
ponga: android & iphone
<shevy>
ponga firefox + chrome
<ponga>
i don't really like chrome
<shevy>
yeah
<ponga>
why is it no longer feel likt lightweight
<ponga>
first time it came out it was blitz
<shevy>
hehe
<ponga>
wait
<shevy>
don't people say the same about firefox
<ponga>
is it more like websites got heavier?
<shevy>
that as well
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<ponga>
not the browser's fault
<diegoviola>
workmad3: I agree and I think you're right on that, I'm not saying we should try to implement new languages on browsers now though, I'm just saying if people were to do that, what would be the best way to do it?
<ponga>
the size of JS file is unbelievable
<ponga>
and images
<diegoviola>
embed an LLVM compiler on the browser and languages as add-ons?
<workmad3>
ponga: also, other browsers caught up with the low-hanging JS optimisation fruit that chrome got their hands on first
<ponga>
i never questioned this monopoly of JS on browser..
<ponga>
but yeah.. it does sound odd
<ponga>
why can't we have like 2,3 langs
<workmad3>
ponga: there used to be vbscript in IE :P
<ponga>
which i believe south korea still loves to use and drives nearly everyone nuts still to these days workmad3
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<ponga>
it literally makes everyone to need therapy
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<shevy>
diegoviola the browser should become a platform like the JVM can be for several languages
<workmad3>
diegoviola: personally, I'd pin my bets on browsers heavily optimising asm.js and packaging something like an emscripten build into toolchains that outputs asm.js optimised code
<ponga>
i'd want ruby to work on browser!
<ponga>
wouldnt ya shevy
<workmad3>
ponga: opal
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<shevy>
yeah
<ponga>
workmad3: sorry? what? opal?
<workmad3>
ponga: opal... it's a JS ruby runtime ;)
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<ponga>
im very angry of how the desktops mobiles still these days don't really help/support users who are multi-lingual
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<shevy>
let's face it, we will all settle on the english language :D
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<ponga>
i mean like
<ponga>
i'd want OS lang to set ENG
<ponga>
but my messenger korean
<ponga>
and calander in japanese
<ponga>
*angry
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<shevy>
yeah
<shevy>
I also set everything to english
<shevy>
when suddenly appears in german it confuses me
<shevy>
*something
<ponga>
are you monolingual shevy
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<shevy>
nah. german language, spanish and english in school
<havenwood>
polyglottery!
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<ponga>
and your first language ? shevy
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<shevy>
ponga german
<ponga>
really???
<shevy>
ponga yours?
<ponga>
and you use English more in everyday life?
<ponga>
you know it shevy JAP/KOR
<shevy>
well
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<shevy>
it depends
<shevy>
the university lessons for the advanced courses are all in english here
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<ponga>
shevy: do you study CS at Uni ??
<shevy>
my local ruby knowledgebase is in german though. it used to be in english, but I noticed that my brain simply is faster when it is written in german
<shevy>
I don't study CS; right now I am studying biotechnology and technical chemistry
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<shevy>
ponga my exam-trainer is written in ruby :D
<ponga>
trainer?
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<shevy>
ponga yeah just so that I have memorized all questions and answers for an upcoming exam (when that is possible; more advanced questions require more coupled knowledge, like to draw a synthetic reaction pathway from molecule A to molecule Z)
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<shevy>
rescue Interrupt is for rescuing ctrl-c right?
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<Synchunk>
shevy, I'm a complete ruby noob, but interrupt is CTRL+C as far as I know.
<shevy>
k just wishing to make sure that I rescue the right thing here
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<epitron>
test iiittt
<apeiros_>
epitron: u high?
<epitron>
I was responding to shevy
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<shevy>
was his cat
<epitron>
if you want to be sure of anything, test
<shevy>
epitron it changes indeed when I increase or decrease the font size lol
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<shevy>
now here is the most hilarious thing
<shevy>
- if I zoom in, I can read it just fine
<shevy>
- if I zoom out, I can read it just fine
<shevy>
if I zoom back to the default, the i's will become I
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<bonhoeffer>
i'm trying to play around with a gem i'm writing with irb . . . but i can't require lib/mygem.rb -- i can, but then it pulls in dependences, any options?
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<bonhoeffer>
i've done this before . . . do i need to do something like include
<shevy>
bonhoeffer you could always try to require the individual .rb files directly?
<shevy>
include you use on a Module
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<shevy>
what you require will be determined by the .rb file in question, in this case what the require statements mygem.rb has
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<bonhoeffer>
hmm. . . when the gem runs, I believe it follows dependencies
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<shevy>
<shevy> then try "gem install rails" again
<shevy>
so your next step is
<deryl>
trying to finish a rails app for something. need something that doesn't blow up when you run rspec tests (for some reason that ActiveRecord::Migration.maintain_test_schema! call in rails 4.1.8 burrows down to file_util.rb:1439 and causes unlink() to be called which pukes on permission errors which it has.
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<shevy>
test install a (small) gem
<dtordable>
hey
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<arup_r>
Am I out of the context ?
<dtordable>
if you have a problem with FreeBSD is not my problem!!!!
<shevy>
I don't have a problem
<arup_r>
raise Dtordable, "Go and sleep"
<shevy>
I don't have to use it :)
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<dtordable>
heh
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<dtordable>
shevy: that's better
<dtordable>
shevy: I failed a bet and I had to be on Windows 8 for a long time
<shevy>
ruby on windows 8 works
<dtordable>
now I'm free to use what I want
<dtordable>
lol
<shevy>
I tried 3 weeks ago
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<dtordable>
yeah yeah
<dtordable>
I tried some months ago and it works
<shevy>
:)
<dtordable>
but well
<dtordable>
the word work is not mine
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<dtordable>
for example: I don't code ruby
<dtordable>
lol
<shevy>
why do you want rails
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<shevy>
so an author can create a .gem from his project and have this distributed to other people
<havenwood>
Passenger 5 also coming out on Christmas?
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<deryl>
ok fuck it. uninstalling railsinstaller 3.0.0 and dropping to 2.2.5 with ruby 1.9.3. http://railsapps.github.io/updating-rails.html says I can use 1.9.3 with up to 4.2, so, after my kid's play maybe I can get this all to gel.
<deryl>
shevy talk to ya later
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<dtordable>
gem gem
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<dtordable>
I think the person who created that name of a packaging system was drunk
<dtordable>
lol
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<shevy>
dtordable the name of the language is ruby
<shevy>
so gem is related to ruby
<shevy>
you also have a ruby-to-javascript project called opal
<shevy>
and perl is some kind of a gem mineral to isn't it?
<shevy>
we are the miners
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<shevy>
gtk2.rb:134: warning: method redefined; discarding old initialize
<shevy>
is there a way to not get this specific warning?
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<shevy>
I am modifying on class Gtk::Entry to call an additional method within initialize()
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<shevy>
majeure this style of code often happens when people don't use classes
<majeure>
Yeah.
<dtordable>
shevy: will try to install that gem then if not then download the gem and continue
<shevy>
I don't like this style of code because the developer gives me no control
<shevy>
whereas, if he would bundle it into a class, I could decide to call it or not call it; but he puts it all directly into the .rb file, so when you load it, it gets executed the moment you require/load it
<shevy>
the error above says you have a openssl problem
<shevy>
lots of people have had problems with openssl in the last 2 years
<dtordable>
yeah yeah it works rubygems.org
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<shevy>
so you can't expect old software to too easily cope with recent problems that were addressed in more recent releases of any given software
<dtordable>
well anyway today I'm not doing anything
<shevy>
dtordable why do you want rails
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<dtordable>
shevy: why is not the proper question
<dtordable>
I'm galician and we always ask
<dtordable>
"why not?"
<dtordable>
lol
<shevy>
yeah but you can do a lot of stuff in a why not fashion
<shevy>
and that does not explain why
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<shevy>
people eat when they are hungry. they need energy to survive
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<shevy>
so why do they eat? they are hungry!
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<sami>
Anyone else have this problem in rails 4.2.0.rc3? ActionController::RoutingError (undefined local variable or method `mimes_for_respond_to' for DeviseController:Class):
<dtordable>
well
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<dtordable>
shevy: it sounds interesting
<dtordable>
just interesting
<dtordable>
and well
<shevy>
:\
<dtordable>
I don't have anything else to do
<dtordable>
lol
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<shevy>
I am looking at old ruby code and I have this line:
<shevy>
GC.start
<shevy>
anyone happens to know why anyone would want to use GC.start?
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<Guest3816>
hey, one question. have my first app in rails running on my server. friend helped me set it up. I use capistrano 3 and rails 4. Cap produciton deploy works perfectly.
<Guest3816>
But now I first time added new migrations and locally app works nice, but when I deploy - zero.
<Guest3816>
do I need to run rake db:migrate on server or is this not connected and I have problem elsewhere?
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<apeiros_>
Guest59121: #rubyonrails is the rails channel. you need to register your nick.
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<Karunamon>
Hi folks - a temporary brain fart prevents me from writing this better, but how would I best DRY this one liner up?
<startupality>
does anyone know how to filter the angellist API to get jobs where job type is “Remote OK”?
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<jrhe>
I am trying to remove a dependency on active supports mattr_accessor from an open source project. First thing I’m trying to establish is if the usage is actually necessary - they are setting config variables on the module. Is there a better way to do global config for a gem?
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<Karunamon>
Say, is there a clever way to have MatchData return nil on an invalid name rather than throwing IndexError?
<ericwood>
you could make that happen but it's best not to
<Karunamon>
ericwood: was that at me or jrhe?
<ericwood>
that was for you
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<shevy>
jrhe config variables on a module like @config ?
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<jrhe>
shevy: like Module.config_var = ‘My config value’
<Karunamon>
ah.. see if this was a hash, I could do things like " if matchdata['value_that_may_or_may_not_exist'] "
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<jrhe>
shevy: with mattr_accessor :config_var in the module
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<Karunamon>
basically MatchData quacks like a hash in every way but this so it's a bit jarring
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<shevy>
jrhe but how is this data stored internally? it must happen in the method NameOfTheModule.config_var=(input) <---
<jrhe>
shevy: Well thats just a setter method created by mattr_accessor. I could rip them out and just replace with the generated code but I’m trying to figure out if there is a btter way of doing the config first
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