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[scopehal] azonenberg edited issue #307: Retool Multimeter API to have GetMeterValue() and GetMeterUnit() methods - https://git.io/JTIZH
<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg opened issue #309: Add secondary value support to multimeters - https://git.io/JTLNG
<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg labeled issue #309: Add secondary value support to multimeters - https://git.io/JTLNG
<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg labeled issue #309: Add secondary value support to multimeters - https://git.io/JTLNG
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<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg closed issue #272: Support for Tek 6 series DVM option - https://git.io/JUVqR
<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg closed issue #307: Retool Multimeter API to have GetMeterValue() and GetMeterUnit() methods - https://git.io/JTIZH
<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±19] https://git.io/JTLx5
<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg 23b3d7e - Multimeter: now have GetMeterValue() rather than separate Get() functions for each type of measurement. Added method to query current unit. Fixes #307.
<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg 70f4391 - Added significant digit support to Unit::PrettyPrint
<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg c58522c - Added significant digit support to Multimeter class. Finished Tek DMM support. Fixes #272.
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[scopehal] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JTteL
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[scopehal] azonenberg 4d3268e - Updated to latest graphwidget
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[scopehal-apps] azonenberg pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±6] https://git.io/JTteq
<azonenberg>
test on tek mso6, about to test on the wavesurfer at the ioa lab remotely
<azonenberg>
doesn't yet work with standalone DMMs but that's a pretty easy fix now that i have the UI
<azonenberg>
i just have to make glscopeclient's command line arg parsing understand things that are meters but not also scopes
<lain>
nice
<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg opened issue #310: Support for Rigol MSO5000 integrated multimeter - https://git.io/JTtUW
<_whitenotifier-f>
[scopehal] azonenberg labeled issue #310: Support for Rigol MSO5000 integrated multimeter - https://git.io/JTtUW
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<azonenberg>
lain: holy moley
<azonenberg>
this is really cool
<lain>
:o
<azonenberg>
So i've been taking a lot of photos and collecting characterization data on my PP023 passive probe. The 10M 10:1 probe that came with my 2 GHz scope
<azonenberg>
getting set up to write an article for xdevs about it (and eventually one for each of my other probes)
<azonenberg>
One of the things I did was compensate the probe to get the best possible data off it
<azonenberg>
So in addition to using the low freq compensation i decided to do the high freq comp too (two additional tiny trimmers)
<azonenberg>
This uses a higher frequency signal than the normal 1 kHz cal output on the scope so i switched to the "fast edge" output on the aux port
<azonenberg>
And decided to try out, for the first time, a handy dandy adapter that came with the probe
<azonenberg>
basically it treats the probe as a male coax connector and adapts that directly to a push-on BNC
<azonenberg>
so you can push the adapter onto a BNC signal generator output and stick a probe right into it
<azonenberg>
I just finished writing an article on my 500 MHz LeCroy passive probe for xdevs
<azonenberg>
and found an impedance mismatch in the probe and/or scope frontend while doing it
<azonenberg>
(see above)
<NeroTHz>
okay will look in a second
<azonenberg>
Lots more notes and docs are on the xdevs docsite FTP under the LeCroy_PP023 directory. Waiting for TiN to look at it and hopefully it will go live shortly
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<NeroTHz>
just spent 2 days setting up cadence
<NeroTHz>
but as a result now, I have a good workflow
<NeroTHz>
my colleagues actually manually export layouts at every stage of the design and import them into the next tool
<NeroTHz>
but now all of my tools can just read and interpret the same libaries, so I can just design and layout a transformer in ADS, simulate it in momentum, open it in HFSS/Clarity, hook it up to my big layout in Cadence, and run DRC, without manually ever having to deal with layermappings or exporting layout files
<azonenberg>
Nice
<NeroTHz>
less nice
<NeroTHz>
my 50 gbit/second link paper got rejected because someone submitted a 100gbit/s link to the same conference
<azonenberg>
:(
<monochroma>
:<
<NeroTHz>
the frustrating thing
<NeroTHz>
is that my current design also aims at 100 gbit
<NeroTHz>
so it´s already not state-off-the-art by the time it´s done
<NeroTHz>
so now I either have to make the choice to push and go wild, or to really just focus on novelty (and try to get my hands on an early-access version of that paper to see what they do so I d something different)
<azonenberg>
hey, on the plus side it was rejected for a good reason
<azonenberg>
I've had papers rejected for absolutely nonsensical reasons
<azonenberg>
like "too technical" or some other nonsense
<azonenberg>
like, if you want to criticize my work on technical merits, or believe it's flawed, that's one thing
<NeroTHz>
I mean I kinda would prefer that it was a nonsensical reason because then I could go ´those damn shitty reviewers!´ *angry fist shake*
<NeroTHz>
:p
<NeroTHz>
but yeah you are right
<azonenberg>
but if you submit a review that makes it clear you don't understand the paper, or barely read it
<azonenberg>
that tells me nothing about how to improve it for next time
<azonenberg>
That was one of my favorite things about submitting my thesis work to CHES
<azonenberg>
Some of the reviews were pretty critical (although it was ultimately accepted)... but
<azonenberg>
it was clear from the content that they UNDERSTOOD my work
<azonenberg>
at several previous cons i had been rejected from, it was clear that it went over their head
<NeroTHz>
LOL
<NeroTHz>
I was typing ´substrate=1mm´ into clarity EM
<NeroTHz>
and it was just ´nope´ and crashed, no error message or nothing, just gone
<azonenberg>
NeroTHz: so guessing you didnt get a chance to look at the probe data i linked earlier?
<azonenberg>
lol
<NeroTHz>
oh that is interesting
<NeroTHz>
so stuff not matched
<NeroTHz>
hmm
<NeroTHz>
man this is such a frustrating bug in clairty
<azonenberg>
NeroTHz: yeah. It's subtle
<azonenberg>
but it's measurable and consistent across two different probes
<azonenberg>
this is my curse, as soon as you start seeing non-idealities in probes you can't ever unsee them
<azonenberg>
a year or two ago my brain would have just blamed that on the test signal not being an ideal squarewave
<NeroTHz>
Now imagine what I go through having to simulate 200 GHz stuff based on models that, on a good day, got extrapolated from DC-10 GHz measurements
<azonenberg>
now, i immediately recognize it as a reflection and within seconds i had guesstimated the propagation delay of the cable and determined the likely cause of it as a mismatch at the probe-scope interface
<NeroTHz>
but yes, once oyu start noticing those things you can´t unsee them
<azonenberg>
and lol, yeah i imagine PDKs probably aren't characterized that high
<azonenberg>
This is going to be a fun little writeup series
<NeroTHz>
I have the same with some stuff in (totally unrelated field) photography and videography
<azonenberg>
I'm doing reviews on xdevs of all my probes, both 1M and transmission (and eventually, active)
<NeroTHz>
where I get why certain reality TV things are cut a certain way or whatever
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
i remember watching a movie at one point and seeing visible MPEG artifacts during a pre-roll advertisement video
<azonenberg>
the 8x8 pixel boundaries were noticeable
<azonenberg>
as was ringing around some of the sharp edges
<NeroTHz>
(or the frustrating thing where the host of the show visits the subject of that episode at home, and you see the subject open the door and be surprised and go ´Oh I wasn´t expecting you, mr&mrs tv host!´ */from a camera perspective within the fucking house*/
<azonenberg>
Lol
<monochroma>
XD
<NeroTHz>
Also got really worked up on continuity error in some house-hunter program
<NeroTHz>
where you could see, as the host and the guests went through the house tour, in the background the outside went from sunlight to streetlights to sun to streetlights
<azonenberg>
lol
<NeroTHz>
(My girlfriend also got annoyed at my need to point out that in the hunger games movies, you could tell when a background was real or CG by the fact that the real movie was shot on anamorphic, but the fake-background-blur they added to the CG shots was spherical
<monochroma>
:P
<NeroTHz>
(I was genuinly proud that I could tell lol)
<NeroTHz>
also gets well into cinematography-nerd-level before people even get why I think that is cool
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
NeroTHz: btw, any idea if there's a feasible way to VNA a 1M ohm probe?
<azonenberg>
do they make VNAs with 1M inputs? :P
<NeroTHz>
what do you mean feasible way?
<azonenberg>
Given a 50 ohm VNA if I want S21 of a 10:1 passive scope probe
<NeroTHz>
you can just probe with regular 50 ohm VNA, and then do a port-translation in simulation
<azonenberg>
That works fine for things like 40 or 60 ohm lines
<azonenberg>
my gut feeling is that 1M is far enough off you'll have dynamic range issues
<azonenberg>
i could be wrong
<azonenberg>
the other issue is i think those probes expect a specific capacitance to ground at the scope side
<NeroTHz>
could be. I don´t have any direct reference for accuracy/dynamic range requirements
<azonenberg>
since it's a R||C divider
<NeroTHz>
you should even be able to include that by adding that cap to your s2p file in simulation
<azonenberg>
i'm pretty sure you can't just throw a 50 ohm termination on it and de-embed
<NeroTHz>
you shuold do a 2-port measurement
<azonenberg>
hmm, i guess if you did a full sim of the scope frontend on the far side
<azonenberg>
it would be possible
<azonenberg>
I'll try it in a bit i guess and see if i get something somewhat plausible
<bvernoux>
hello
<bvernoux>
finally I have bought the MSO5074 ;)
<bvernoux>
thanks to Batronix ;)
<bvernoux>
(they offered a 6% discount)
<bvernoux>
as I have bought other stuff with it
<bvernoux>
finally my list is
<bvernoux>
1x Rigol MSO5074
<bvernoux>
1x Sensepeek 4016 PCBite 2x SP200 Kit
<bvernoux>
1x Sensepeek 4x SP10 Probe Kit 4005
<bvernoux>
1x TekBox TBPS01-TBWA2/40dB
<bvernoux>
I have not found a good Amplifier up to 40dB so I have take the expensive full version of TekBox ;)
<bvernoux>
like that I could wait Tek MSO64B refurbished with 3 year warranty is available ;)
<bvernoux>
it is the next step ;)
<bvernoux>
also asked to Lecroy if they plan to provide something equivalent (in specification) to the Tek MSO64B
<bvernoux>
IIRC they do not have anything equivalent so far
<azonenberg>
bvernoux: i believe the closest competitor they have is the WavePro HD
<azonenberg>
Which is 4 channels max, 8 GHz bandwidth, 20 Gsps
<azonenberg>
it would not surprise me if they introduced a 6-8 channel version at some point
<azonenberg>
There is no digital downconversion/spetrcum mode other than the software FFT, i believe because tek has a patent on that
<bvernoux>
yes but it is 8bits ADC also
<bvernoux>
not 12bits
<azonenberg>
No
<bvernoux>
you shall not check the ENOB anyway ;)
<azonenberg>
The WavePro HD is 12 bits
<bvernoux>
ha ok
<azonenberg>
But it tops out at 20 Gsps and 8 GHz
<bvernoux>
so yes it is the nearest competitor
<azonenberg>
It's their fastest 12 bit scope
<bvernoux>
but MSO 64B is 50GSPS ;)
<bvernoux>
so 50GSPS vs 20GSPS is a big improvement
<azonenberg>
the fastest 8 channel scope is the WaveRunner 8000HD which is 2 GHz 10 Gsps max but 8 channels
<bvernoux>
especially they can upgrade the BW from 1GHz to 10GHz only by SW license
<azonenberg>
if you want more sample rate you have to move to the WaveMaster line, which goes up to 30 GHz 80 Gsps, but is 4 channels only and 8 bit
<azonenberg>
then LabMaster you're already familiar with is the crazy high end line
<azonenberg>
There has not been a refresh on those models in a couple of years. Hopefully a new one comes out soonish
<bvernoux>
on my side I'm not really interested by 8chan just 4chan is perfect ;)
* azonenberg
sends bvernoux off to 4chan to hang out with the trolls there
<bvernoux>
hehe
<bvernoux>
anyway more is always better to push them to innovate ;)
<bvernoux>
next ADC is maybe with saphire substrate ;)
<NeroTHz>
fking all this microwave design software using a ideal ground
<NeroTHz>
I can´t get my head wrapped around it
<NeroTHz>
how can you do anything if you can´t take into account return current