<hipboi_>
lundman: what do you mean by windows resume with F10
<lundman>
win7, go to hibernate, you can push a key on usb keyboard, if you set "allow this device to wake". want to do it so pushing F10 powers windows on
<lundman>
I had like 1 minute to try last night, ran out of time, but didnt work. just thought I'd ask if you'd already figured it out
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<hipboi__>
lundman: no, i haven't tried that way
<hipboi__>
hackandfab hno: the picture was taken by my friend
<hipboi__>
he is a electronic dummy
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<CIA-122>
rhombus-tech: Anton master * r415b4fe9cf39 /allwinner_a10/orders/voiper.mdwn:
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<libv>
mnemoc: pong
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<hackandfab>
good morning
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<oliv3r>
Hi, I read that this is the temporary home of the ehombus-tech guys et al? I was curious if rhombus-tech or others are aware of what is happening on the XBMC forums.
<oliv3r>
the interesting bits start around post 60+
<mnemoc>
libv: still around?
<CIA-122>
rhombus-tech: N master * r0f67e0d2f960 /allwinner_a10/orders/sagro17.mdwn:
<lundman>
my name crops up a few times
<mnemoc>
uh, so service@ also goes to Eva?
<oliv3r>
i think service@allwinnertech.com goes to some support mailbox, that probably eva is in charge of dealing with :)
<mnemoc>
eva seems to be in charge of... everything
<oliv3r>
I would not be supprised if they sign off all their e-mails as 'eva'.
<oliv3r>
maybe a pun on 'eve' from Wall-E? :)
<oliv3r>
or was that Eva too? I'm sure she's not called eva though, 'eva wu'? right :p
<oliv3r>
Just out of curiosity, what is the actual status of the rhombustech hardware? I was reading all pages anxiously, only to be dissapointed to find no actual hardware. No set-top box, no tablet, nothing :(
<oliv3r>
no PCMCIA/CF-socket CPU cards either
<hackandfab>
oliv3r I've also sent a email to them after reading j1nx's post
<oliv3r>
the more the better :)
<oliv3r>
I'm just a little worried about a lot of xbmc users, just wanting working binary blobs and are happy with that
<oliv3r>
rm: If I want to support rhombus-tech's efforts into getting properly GPLed hardware into the peoples hadns. Yes I can buy a A10 based tablet/STB now. How will allwinner know this will be used for Linux things? How am I supporting rhombus-tech's mission?
<mnemoc>
oliv3r: currently luke is not here, you are better with the mailing list
<rm>
How am I supporting rhombus-tech's mission? <- by installing/testing/developing things like the A10 kernel and the Mali driver
<rm>
so that by the time the board is ready, it will have a mainlined kernel support
<rm>
and hardware accelerated Xorg
<orly_owl>
the board isnt ready now?
<mnemoc>
for rhombus-tech's and EOMA68's plans the A10-based board is only a very small and part, and doesn't even need to be created... ever... if by the time luke manages to get a design there are better alternatives it's very like there won't ever be an EOMA68-A10 card
<oliv3r>
but why would I buy A10 hardware from rhombus-tech when I allready have working hardware from $random_mfg :p
<mnemoc>
RT hardware aims to be different than any other random hardware
<oliv3r>
mnemoc: ah okay. Well I just read his mission-statement, find a hardware manufacturer that wil build boards, if he focuses on the software
<mnemoc>
the idea is to have user replaceable "CPU cards" and devices to connect these cars
<oliv3r>
and found that a good and noble cause to support
<oliv3r>
yeah, I think the idea behind it is very neat
<mnemoc>
s/cars/cards/
<ibot>
mnemoc meant: the idea is to have user replaceable "CPU cards" and devices to connect these cards
<rm>
I'd say, buy A10 hardware from anyone you like
<rm>
afaik it's pretty uniform
<rm>
and provides the best bang for the buck and perhaps the best degree of openness in the ARM world, today
<oliv3r>
I think they make an awesome chip, it just lacks proper driver support atm. I think the arm bit is fine, the GPU bit is 'wip' 2d works ok/well 3d is being worked on by the lima project; VPU (cedarX) .... nothing but required
<rm>
if you want to know what 'lacks proper driver support' means, take a look at Telechips or Rockchip :)
<mnemoc>
rm: telechips actually released their sources one or two days ago
<rm>
2 days ago and it's 3.0.8 afaik
<rm>
so it's got what, only a year or so of catch-up to play with the A10
<rm>
with a massively smaller hacker-base
<rm>
also, does it boot any user-made image from an SD card like the A10 does?
<mnemoc>
the just-boot-from-sd capability of sunxi is AWESOME
<rm>
exactly :)
<ZaEarl>
That's great to see another company releasing source!
<mnemoc>
indeed
<oliv3r>
it's probably only the arm bits. i'm betting no 2d and deffinatly no 3d bit is released with that, let alone any video-decoder (if they even have that) :( but a++ for effort
<rm>
openness is not just about releasing the source
<rm>
e.g. the SD boot capability gives you what is essentially a "PC-grade" level of openness :)
<rm>
hardware which will run any OS of your choice from an external storage
<rm>
no "flashing", no fiddling, not even UART console is required
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<zenitraM>
huh, the 8192cu driver seems to support master (AP) mode
<rm>
schweet
<rm>
wondered whether or not my "mk802 server" scenario could also be an AP
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<zenitraM>
going to try to set it up
<zenitraM>
as a wireless repeater (using an usb antenna as client). my room is too far away from my parents router u.U
<orly_owl>
i see no arm devices with usb3 or esata
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<zenitraM>
okay, the 8192cu driver doesn't seem to support master mode properly (can't set SSID)
<zenitraM>
going to try the mainline one with Turl's patches
<oliv3r>
rm: I fully agree with you! however being able to talk to the hardware helps quite a bit. or should I say _knowing_ how to talk to the hardware :)
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<hackandfab>
Does anyone know if cedarx could in hardware encode and decode a video at the same time? (I know there is no open driver yet)
<mnemoc>
i really doubt it can do both things at the same time
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<hackandfab>
I looked at the code at https://github.com/amery/allwinner-a10-video and there are no overlaping funcions. Also there is no boolean IOCTL. I mean the code looks like it could be posible but I don't know if the hardware could.
<hackandfab>
I meant there isn't a IOCTL parameter that is 0 or 1 to encode or decode.
<hackandfab>
so if the chip can't encode and decode at the same time, there is nothing in the code that prevents this
<mnemoc>
test it :)
<rm>
so if people could fly there's nothing in the US law that prevents this
<mnemoc>
maybe in some states...
<hackandfab>
mnemoc I wish i could :(
<mnemoc>
you have encoding and decoding sample code
<hackandfab>
ok, I'll try and tell you but it will take all day
<mnemoc>
only a day? :p
<zenitraM>
AP mode works on the meleusing hostapd + mainline driver \o/
<hackandfab>
mnemoc: I'm begining to thik it will be a good idea to grab milk and krispies...
<mnemoc>
hackandfab: :D
<mnemoc>
zenitraM: kudos!
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<zenitraM>
mmm, how can the LED on the Mele be toggled from Linux?
<hno>
Regarding the petition for open drivers. It''s not the more the better. The less we have to deal with Eva the better. "random" Open Source requests is not going to please her at all.
<hno>
zenitraM, good question. Been wondering the same.
<specing>
zenitraM: 1) export a GPIO 2) write 1 to it 3) write 0 to it 4) profit!
<zenitraM>
i'll try after i get iptables up on it
<thefrog>
hno: the Cedar driver? or are there other drivers as well that are needed? Do they know how to deal with open source requests after they do it?
<mnemoc>
the same driver does cedarv and cedara (VPU and APU) prblem is that chances to piss eva off are getting high.
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<thefrog>
mnemoc: eva being someone at allwinner, softwinner, or Mele -- or eva being something else?
<WarheadsSE>
agreed mnemoc all we need is one "everything should be free!!" nut
<thefrog>
WarheadsSE: you have to have a plan in advance to deal with those
<WarheadsSE>
hno: zenitraM I was just about to ask the same thing..
<WarheadsSE>
Suppose I should put in a patch for sys/class/led at some point...
<WarheadsSE>
would be a lot easier.
<WarheadsSE>
Are the leds even in the Fex?
<WarheadsSE>
(no)
<mnemoc>
thefrog: eva is the almighty secretary of allwinner/softwinner/wits
<WarheadsSE>
yes, please dont piss her off.
<specing>
heh
<traeak>
maybe you guys can wear her down :-p
<mnemoc>
they have no obligation on helping us, so annoying her isn't a good idea
<mnemoc>
WarheadsSE: there is a gpio driver
<mnemoc>
called GPIOUGLY or something like that
<mnemoc>
written by hipboi__
<mnemoc>
uh, his nose is getting bigger
<thefrog>
mnomoc: I haven't written to them yet. was going to wait until I was in a good mood and be nice and positive and praising.
<mnemoc>
good idea :)
<thefrog>
I figured it would be nice to wait until after the rush and then be nice
<thefrog>
I suspect they need help themselves on figuring out how to deal with this.
<hno>
thefrog, Allwinner knows nothing about how Open Source works. And there is no noticeable business case in it for them. But thanks to careful negotiations by lkcl we have Tom on our side.
<traeak>
how difficult is it to market, sell and support POS systems?
<traeak>
too mcuh software involved and they are a hardware company
<traeak>
ugh, forget that then
<thefrog>
hno: I suspect that they didn't know. The spectere of an early open-source nut demanding compliance is real.
<hno>
and not helping.
<traeak>
"nut"?
<thefrog>
traeak: zealot ?
<traeak>
someone wanting to be able to pursue a new business model with minimal resource requirements
<mnemoc>
thefrog: [mark as spam] .... and after some training, bye bye crowd
<traeak>
that's a reality
<traeak>
if one of these experiments takes off then they might get tons of orders
<traeak>
but they are afraid that by that time somene else will have undercut them or something
<traeak>
the big problem is they don't seem to have risk takers
<mnemoc>
traeak: they also provide the $service$ of dealing with software changes for their paying customers
<mnemoc>
having sources open undermines that part of their business model
<traeak>
ah yes the almighty maintenance dollars
<mnemoc>
which are more real that any promises made by the open source advocating crowd
<traeak>
gotcha
<traeak>
so they take whatever theycan and give back the minimum they can
<traeak>
the game everyone playes
<zenitraM>
AP mode is utterly unstable :( connection drops every second
<mnemoc>
traeak: isn't that the definition of business?
<traeak>
mnemoc: only one type of business
<traeak>
market entrechment
<traeak>
people who really make it big are the ones who createnew markets
<traeak>
those creators of new markets should be allowe to do so, the problem is those are the ones hurt the most by stupid policy
<mnemoc>
those are who didn't get a brainwashing MBA ;-)
<mnemoc>
I mean, business schools advocate the do whatever you need to earn more faster
<mnemoc>
screwing whoever you need
<mnemoc>
if the laws are a problem, $change$ the laws
<traeak>
sounds like the rules of an agnostic/atheist society :-p
<mnemoc>
:)
<traeak>
china, russia
<mnemoc>
as if the US money didn't buy laws
<traeak>
that's because the us government went form ~3% of gdp at the peak of growth to whatever massive percent it is today
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<thefrog>
traeak: POS system. Lots of logistics, litterally. If the POS is down, the end-user isn't making money. Techs and Parts within single-digit hours of most customers.
<rm>
<traeak> china, russia <- if the laws are a problem, you just pay/earn more bribes
<rm>
depending on which side you are at
<traeak>
thefrog: i know, these hardware manufacturers end up being squeezed because that's all they mostly offer...unless they try to play chicken and lock up the hardware by obscurity
<thefrog>
traeak: maybe using more common/commodity hardware. square (squareup?) has an almost zero footprint solution to overcome it.
<thefrog>
i wouldn't want to do what they are doing though
<traeak>
support for POS is murderous, the liability is monstrous
<traeak>
and i think in the US now government regulation has kicked in on purchase tracking as well (i'm totally against that BTW)
<traeak>
heh
<thefrog>
traeak: i don't understand 'purchase tracking'
<thefrog>
i'm dense though.. it took me 3 days to figure out what ICS was.
<traeak>
now ics falls to jellybean
<traeak>
anything short for jellybean ?
<thefrog>
seeing a lot of jb
<thefrog>
which keys to 'jailbreak' in my mind
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<WarheadsSE>
dont worry, it will get worse as people get dyslesic and type "MY PHONE GOT BJ!"
<CIA-122>
rhombus-tech: amix master * r1d95e518b83a /community_ideas.mdwn: added active cross-over idea
<traeak>
bj and max iPad ?
<mnemoc>
Turl: ping
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<thefrog>
What does the A10 product page mean by multi-channel display?
<mnemoc>
thefrog: probably that you can have separated outputs at the same time
<thefrog>
mnemoc: so rendering to an LCD and an HDMI output at the same time.. or overlaying two decode streams on the same video output?
<mnemoc>
i think both...
<mnemoc>
but i've not played with either
<thefrog>
mnemoc: i am trying to tamp down any excitement. I have an Mele a100 on the way. If it works, I'd like to get a few of the tablet designs to play with
<Turl>
ping mnemoc
<mnemoc>
Turl: hi, can you give the new wip/linux-sunxi-3.0/mem a test?
<mnemoc>
moved all the memory reserving changes to a different branch, until we find something that works :<
<mnemoc>
Turl: I stole your CONFIG_SUNXI_MALI_SIZE hack for now
<Turl>
mnemoc: after thinking about it some time, the kconfig approach isn't so good, I'd do it inside core.c and set config_sunxi_mali_size there
<Turl>
if you disable mali it'd still reserve the memory on the kconfig approach
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<mnemoc>
i think fixup is even too early even for checking script.bin
<mnemoc>
as we do in .reserve
<mnemoc>
but I can't find a way to get rid of the .fixup hackery
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<mnemoc>
and would like to have something that... "does the job" merged
<RaYmAn>
Turl: if you made config SUNXI_MALI_SIZE depend on MALI, wouldn't it take care of it as well? kernel config should automatically remove it if mali is disabled then...
<mnemoc>
isn't the 'default' only used when the variable is first set?
<mnemoc>
ah, meh
<mnemoc>
forget what I said
<RaYmAn>
you could do something like #ifdef CONFIG_SUNXI_MALI_SIZE mali = CONFIG_SUNXI_MALI_SIZE #endif, and have CONFIG_SUNXI_MALI_SIZE depend on CONFIG_MALI? Surely that would have same effect.
<RaYmAn>
(but this only takes care of the argument about allocating memory still if you disable mali)
<mnemoc>
there you have the old proposal as - and a replacement as +
<Turl>
no need to have an int named mali mnemoc
<Turl>
you can use #define
<RaYmAn>
yeah, I saw it :) I was just mostly pulling apart Turl's argument for going that direction instead
<mnemoc>
Turl: sure it's not needed, but looks cleaner :p
<Turl>
RaYmAn: yeah but then on non-mali it wouldn't be 0 but undefined instead
<traeak>
whatever you pick may stick :-p
<RaYmAn>
Turl: yes - but that's easily fixable in source file
<Turl>
RaYmAn: crapton of ifdefs? :D
<RaYmAn>
#ifdef #else mali =0
<RaYmAn>
Turl: no, exactly the same amount as in the second proposal
<Turl>
mnemoc: anyway the compiler can optimize those constants I think? :)
<RaYmAn>
:P
<mnemoc>
Turl: "in dead code elimination we trust"
<RaYmAn>
I honeslty don't really care whether it's kconfig or statically defined (though - magic constants annoy me ;)) - was just the argument I didn't really like ;)
<RaYmAn>
also, yay! My n7 has been shipped :D
<mnemoc>
from uk?
<RaYmAn>
no, it's been shipped from google to the guy I bought it through
<RaYmAn>
should arrive tomorrow and then he can reship so it should be here around monday
<Turl>
RaYmAn: have him check if the screen doesn't bleed like no tomorrow :D
<mnemoc>
enless it slips out of the envelope :<
<mnemoc>
unless*
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<RaYmAn>
Turl: lol
<RaYmAn>
Turl: nah, I'd prefer unopened :P
<RaYmAn>
mnemoc: I'll have him ship it as a package ;)
<mnemoc>
want to video some unboxing pr0n?
<mnemoc>
RaYmAn: :)
<RaYmAn>
lol
<RaYmAn>
there's plenty of that online
<RaYmAn>
half the people fail at opening it :P
<RaYmAn>
Now I just need ot find a usage for it! :)
<mnemoc>
dust collector?
<RaYmAn>
lol
<RaYmAn>
sadly, probably not entirely wrong
<RaYmAn>
I should really sell some of the tablets I don't use
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<t0dbld|work>
RaYmAn: no family ? mine jsut got about 3k in devices from me last month or two
<RaYmAn>
I'd rather sell them ;P
<t0dbld|work>
haha no doubt ... if they didnt need device so bad i prob would have done the same
<thefrog>
what was the use case for reserving the physical address space for 64Meg for the Graphics?
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<mnemoc>
thefrog: apparently the driver needs a fixed address. if we don't reserve it, by the time the module is loaded it's already (partially) used
<mnemoc>
and if we reserve it, mali fails to re-reserve it
<mnemoc>
and AllWinner's solution was to hide it from the kernel entirely
<mnemoc>
there are a bunch of failed experiments to remove this hack in the wip/3.0/mem_mali branch
<thefrog>
It'll take some reading. I would like to look. I mostly don't know what I am doing. I was thinking a character speical device.
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<mnemoc>
Turl: yes, we do
<mnemoc>
Turl: baidu is also a bad source... you don't only need to register (in chinese) but then to upload stuff to gain credits to then be used for downloading stuff
<Turl>
mnemoc: huh?
<mnemoc>
at least they don't spam you much
<Turl>
mnemoc: I used a bugmenot.com account and downloaded it and the a10 datasheet :P
<hno>
and the restricted access 400p document mnemoc mentioned.
<RaYmAn>
heh
<hno>
the kernel sources is the authorative source for information.
<hno>
allwinner apparently have additional internal documentation somewhere. Tom was able to dig out basic watchdog details not available anywhere known outside Allwinner.
<hno>
(magic numbers needed to make the watchdog actually work)
<thefrog>
. OK. I got the diffs and see the driver work. I might be able to do something on this when I get my hardware. At least I have something to read until then.
<hno>
doing piece by piece as needed, which also happens to be those pieces which is not covered in the 400p Allwinner register guide.
<hno>
For A13 there won't even be a restricted access register guide available.
<hno>
no idea what the situation will be like for Allwinner A15 when it comes out.
<thefrog>
hno: is there any chance that the j1nx/gimli thing will actually open them up a bit?
<gimli>
thefrog: nope. they requested me to write them, did it. no anwser. my standpoind is allwinner can fuck off
<thefrog>
gimli: i expect it will take them a week to digest your response. then I guess you will get a few conflicting communications.
<thefrog>
then it will either work or won't work.
<gimli>
i alrady started last week official contact to them. only one mail back, in the rest silence
<thefrog>
gimli: when we had manufacturing in there.. it was always like that.
<gimli>
quite strange that Eva lost my mail adress even she anwsered me last week.
<mnemoc>
we are all filtered as spam :p
<furan>
I wish I could figure out what this register is
<gimli>
for me a10 is dead from the xbmc point of view.
<thefrog>
"hey, all the batteries exploded and leaked.. " *silence* "Hey we're not gonna pay for this shipment" "what was the problem.. you never told us"
<furan>
01C22000
<thefrog>
gimli: that's a perfectly reasonable view.. unless they change something. I try to not get my hopes up.
<thefrog>
ok.. that's today then.
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<mnemoc>
hno: can I steal your registry guide?
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<hno>
mnemoc, what do you mean?
<hno>
furan, a bit of more context please. Where are you seeing this register?
<furan>
I'm reversing a driver for the yinlips ydpg18 (an a10 device). It has a gamepad that is run with a heavily modified sun4-ir.c driver (called ioc)
<mnemoc>
hno: migrating it from one wiki to the other
<hno>
mnemoc, I need offline access to work on that one.
<furan>
anyway I read the code wrong
<furan>
it's using 0xF1C22000+0x800, aka LRADC
<furan>
it sends it strange values
<furan>
when enabling it sends
<furan>
writel(0x2c00049, 0xF1C22000+0x800);
<furan>
when disabling it sends writel(0, 0xF1C22000 + 0x800);
<mnemoc>
hno: allwinner_info.git + python script to push it?
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<hno>
mnemoc, also would like others to be able to work online or offline.
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<furan>
ah I am finding useful info in sun4i-keyboard.c
<mnemoc>
hno: so if the wiki it's not git based you won't use it, right?
<hno>
if moving I'd rather move it to github wiki I think.
<CIA-122>
rhombus-tech: Peter master * rdd5adc3db220 /allwinner_a10/orders/peter.mdwn:
<mnemoc>
:(
<Turl>
wasn't there a mediawiki filesystem?
<mnemoc>
yes, but doesn't work offline
<mnemoc>
hno: a parseable text file in allwinner-info can be edited by more people (as any project on github) and the generated output be protected with a note pointing to the repo
<mnemoc>
sad there is no offline support for mediawiki yet
<specing>
well
<specing>
you can download the wikipedia.org database and use it offline....
<specing>
20G text only
<mnemoc>
specing: i'm talking about linux-sunxi.org
<specing>
well them must have scripts to dump it
<specing>
look at them :)
<mnemoc>
making a bot (with pywikipediabot) to maintain a git-based mirror wouldn't be hard, making it sync bidirectionally is another story
<hno>
mnemoc, rhombus-tech wiki is open for anyone to edit. Not the most user friendly editor but there is no restrictions.
<mnemoc>
hno: unfortunatelly I lost my hope of ever seeing an A10-based product from RT, and even if one comes it's a very minor player in their plans
<mnemoc>
so for me it's the wrong place for anything A10-related
<mnemoc>
except the stuff about the EOMA68-A10 cards obviusly
<Manofthe1ea>
hmm? mnemoc, you're expecting the first card to be a different processor?
<mnemoc>
i don't discard it
<mnemoc>
the only info about the cards is about how many other SoC makers have been visited
<mnemoc>
and the exciting deals "the associates" have made
<Manofthe1ea>
well, would you want it to be the only card?
<mnemoc>
which is great, for RT and EOMA68 goals
<mnemoc>
Manofthe1ea: of course not, I only mean that it's the wrong place for documenting the A10 SoC which is only a minor player in RT's plans
<Manofthe1ea>
oh, I follow.
<Manofthe1ea>
Yeah, not documenting all A10, but just EOMA-A10
<Manofthe1ea>
I had misunderstood
<specing>
heh then why linux-sunxi.org? why not just sunxi.org?
<mnemoc>
no reason in particular beside that one exists and the other doesn't (yet)
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<mnemoc>
as long as it's a place without economic goals where the A10 is a prime actor I'm happy. Not just an excuse to attract attention to a particular business
<specing>
heh
<mnemoc>
good night
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