sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<instagibbs>
bsm1175321, have you read the DECOR+ paper
<instagibbs>
sounds very slightly braidish, and was wondering if you could tldr it
<instagibbs>
Sergio is claiming it's much more resistant to selfish mining, might warrant a look
<katu>
instagibbs: vitalik had a lot of blabbing about it before i think
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<instagibbs>
katu, but he apparently didn't use it, and instead used something more broken?
<instagibbs>
(according to Sergio)
<katu>
personally i think its useless complexity which adds nothing of value. the whole notion that orphan hashrate is somehow "wasted" is ludicruous.
<katu>
top hashrate nodes are merely incentivized to exchange blocks fast. as long they have all equal chance in visibility, orphans are simply invisible loss.
<katu>
aka orphans penalize your shitty connectivity, so better fix that.
<katu>
(invisible, as in, spreads out equally)
<belcher>
wouldnt that mean all the miners end up physically close to each other ?
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<katu>
belcher: even better, they can enforce latencies in tit-for-tat fashion. so you'd get a cloud where everyone has 50ms equal with each another.
<katu>
remember oldschool dota? it worked like this.
<belcher>
what does that mean? enforcing latencies
<belcher>
why do miners do that
<katu>
belcher: if they want fairness, they should run consensus to establish equal grounds.
<katu>
this is all assuming very low block times which would call for much more structured, not merely ad-hoc, network topology
<katu>
in broad sense, it would separate the problem into different domain, with no need to actually polute the block chain with it
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<instagibbs>
katu, i don't "care" about orphans, but I care about "unfair" mining strategies
<instagibbs>
fast block times don't interest me
<katu>
its not like cheating, its geography
<belcher>
increase block interval to 1h
<katu>
what belcher said, simplest solution
<instagibbs>
belcher, if mining hashrate didn't change much, that might be a good idea yeah
<instagibbs>
problem is new hashrate will get deprecated while you still have high variance
<katu>
but up to minute is manageable - with 100ms block propagation jitter theres almost no "unfairness"
<katu>
that is, measurable one
<instagibbs>
block propagation isn't nearly that good today
<katu>
its good enough for bitcoin
<katu>
but for rapid fire block intervals, really think about fixing network topology first
<katu>
for example self-organize according to "heard it from there first" bias
<katu>
and perhaps avoid transmitting whole blocks, you can simply blindly trust its hash and verify as the rest its txes arrive later (meanwhile you already mine on top of it).
<katu>
if some peer abuses this window, simply drop em, that way they get isolated and their cheating gets counter productive
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