sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<neha>
please consider attending (requires submitting a form or position paper) i would love to see more btc representation
<neha>
no guarantees on outcomes but the w3c is pretty good at corralling the browser vendors, which means something interesting could happen down the line.
<kanzure>
still not sure what to tell them to do. "no wallet stuff" is a strange constraint (because of some other payments group). not sure anything else belongs in a fat browser client...
<neha>
i don't think there's a "no wallet stuff" constraint. where do you see that?
<fluffypony>
omg it's a neha
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<neha>
it says "Payments: this topic is already thriving, and risks dominating the workshop, so we prefer discussions of payment only when they are yoked with other topics (e.g. browser-based wallets for handling both payments and identity)"
<fluffypony>
neha: I'm taking a couple of months from travelling after the trip I'm currently on, otherwise I would
<kanzure>
neha: in the "out of scope" section
<fluffypony>
conference sounds fantastic
<kanzure>
i see.
<neha>
hi fluffypony!
<fluffypony>
s/conference/workshop
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<neha>
my current fav topic for the workshop is browser-based wallets
<fluffypony>
those are horrible and unsafe and no person in their right mind would operate one
* fluffypony
whistles innocently
* fluffypony
stares into the corner
<kanzure>
agreed...
<kanzure>
"how to encourage a million terrible javascript browser extension wallets" :)
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<neha>
my thoughts are let's have the browser vendors implement them once (per browser) so that doesn't happen!
<fluffypony>
sure
<neha>
there's an interesting gap between web payments and web crypto
<neha>
(working groups)
<fluffypony>
the problem is that you end up with disparate systems
<fluffypony>
what if the browser just knew how to handle a Payment object
<fluffypony>
and your system had a bunch of installed providers that could service that Payment object
<neha>
\me is happy we are having this conversation
<neha>
oops
* neha
is happy we are having this conversation
<neha>
what is the difference between that and what i said?
<fluffypony>
nothing, I was just thinking about "once per browser" vs. "once per system"
<neha>
i suppose browser vendor implementing API vs. implementing wallet
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<bsm117532>
I've got some interesting numbers for you kids...
<bsm117532>
Taking the Bitcoin orphan rate (which is 1.16 per day, averaged over the last two years) and its target block time of 10 minutes, it's possible to calculate the minimum block time, given the network topology of mining bitcoin nodes.
<bsm117532>
Essentially, the orphan rate tells you the "size" of the network.
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<bsm117532>
in units of the block time.
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<bsm117532>
This "size" is 4.8s (as a parameter in an equation I'll have to show later).
<bsm117532>
The resultant minimum block time, allowing blocks to have multiple parents, is 11.6s.
<bsm117532>
This is about a factor of 10 slower than other p2p networks (like bittorrent) I suspect due to mining nodes being slow to relay (great firewall or operating over Tor/I2P).
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<bsm117532>
The resultant block "chain" (braid) has on average 2 beads per cohort (=block).
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<r0ach>
I was browsing scamcoins and think I discovered the biggest Rube Goldberg implementation so far (NEM coin):
<r0ach>
"Supernodes are expected to be high performance and reliable nodes. They are regularly tested on their bandwidth, chain height, chain parts, computing power, version, ping, and responsiveness to make sure that they are performing to high standards."
<katu>
does nem really have an implementation?
<r0ach>
I don't know, just stumbled upon that a second ago...
<katu>
afaik it was half bollocks (along with storj and maid), and half not even bothering to release working implementation
<katu>
anyhow, sort of wish somebody actually did try to instantiate something tackling the problem of self-reported rank consensus
<katu>
it is doable to a degree imo, at least with weak subjective assumptions similiar to NaS
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