sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<psztorc>
Ahem, if there are any wizards here. I'm finishing up a tiny identity project, where users are associated with commitments to public keys. I wanted to add a finishing touch where you can also send money to these keys. I'm wondering if, to create a publicly associated Stealth Address, I need to add a whole field to the database (such that it is "ID", "H(PubKey)", "Stealth Address"), or if there's some cryptomagic way of deriving
<psztorc>
the public Stealth Address from H(PubKey).
<psztorc>
I guess the H(PubKey) in the database could instead be H(Pubkey + StealthAddress).
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<waxwing>
psztorc: i'm confused, you can publish a stealth receiver pubkey then anyone can derive a one-time stealth address for you by communicating a sender pubkey. if you publish the actual address, you've removed the point of it; why not just use an ordinary receiving address.
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<psztorc>
waxwing: The marginal benefit is that there is no user error, and no jumbled mess of characters. Instead I just look up "waxwing" and then I can pay you, without anyone knowing.
<psztorc>
The target user is someone who has no idea what a key is.
<psztorc>
And no idea what PGP is.
<waxwing>
there are schemes for that involving humanising addresses, i don't think you need the ECDH/stealth approach for that. the virtue of the stealth setup is that outside observers cannot derive the receiving address from the public information.
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<psztorc>
Yes, and?
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<waxwing>
ok, another tack: you can publish a receiver pubkey. then, the sender can use stealth to send to it, but: either the sender must somehow communicate that pubkey to the receiver (it can be done in public, anonymity caveats notwithstanding), or the receiver must scan transactions to find the payment.
<waxwing>
apologies if i'm missing your point.
<psztorc>
Apology accepted.
<psztorc>
I'm building a Namecoin-like thing.
<waxwing>
humanised representations seems to be orthogonal
<psztorc>
Correct.
<psztorc>
The thing has people's identies , and some general "human stuff" WoT ish stuff. And it links that to something a computer can use.
<psztorc>
Namely H(PubKey), because I assumed that the user could just send around their pubkey on command, or that Google would index them or whatever.
<psztorc>
And I didn't want it taking up space.
<psztorc>
But I thought, "Hey, for fun, what if you could *pay* these identities some Bitcoin."
<psztorc>
So of course you could try to map the PubKey to a BTC address, but then people would know how much money was being sent to them!
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<psztorc>
That's no good. So I am wondering if you can "publish" the stealth address within the H(PubKey) as it was set up, and it seems the answer is "no".
<waxwing>
if you want commitments you should probably be doing H(pubkey, nonce). (side point, maybe not relevant)
<psztorc>
But then, moments ago, I realized that you could make the H() be H( pubkey + stealth ).
<waxwing>
yes doing ecdh with only H(pubkey) doesn't work i think
<psztorc>
The nonce of what? And why?
<waxwing>
if you want a commitment (not saying you do) you should add a nonce to avoid ease of finding the data by search etc.
<psztorc>
No, it's fine I want it all to be found anyway.
<psztorc>
Anyway I think the H( pubkey, stealth address ) will work just fine. I wonder if there's anything else that should be in there?
<kvnn>
/join #btcbase
<waxwing>
but in what sense stealth address? stealth addresses are derived uniquely per sender?
<waxwing>
if i get you, you're trying to create a scenario where the published data of the receiver allows anyone to send to it, but you don't want to publish the raw pubkey.
<psztorc>
? No no I merely want to link the stealth address to the human, in as few bytes as possible.
<psztorc>
Probably I confused everyone here by not immediately realizing the simpler way to do it.
<waxwing>
what do you mean by "the" stealth address? the address changes per sender.
<waxwing>
well, per payment i should say
<kvnn>
He's defined it as a "publicly associated Stealth Address"
<psztorc>
I mean this thing: s9KND3vfXjs3YqfZp86Acce3bM7Mhuptwh6mjeDnThsDei9Z2ZZcU
<waxwing>
how is that different from an ordinary address? the point of stealth is to prevent public association
<psztorc>
My understanding is that you publish the s9KND3vfXjs3YqfZp86Acce3bM7Mhuptwh6mjeDnThsDei9Z2ZZcU which is safely reuseable.
<psztorc>
I expected someone to do something like Cryptomagic(Pubkey) = Ingredients for Stealth Address = Stealth Address. That is why I asked.
<waxwing>
you can do that by announcing the pubkey. then it's reusable for different payers.
<waxwing>
hash of pubkey, i think ECDH cannot work that way.
<psztorc>
: ) Ok, this is my fault that everyone is confused, but my problem is solved so, thank you IRC Universe.
<psztorc>
The PubKey is, like, an RSA pubkey.
<psztorc>
But the explanation might as well wait for the publication at this point. Haha
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<jinqui>
hey guys, does anyone know off hand what the byte-savings are for using sendmany vs sendtransaction when you have multiple pay to addresses?
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<Taek>
#bitcoin-dev
<maaku>
N-1 outputs
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