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<bsm1175321>
So the lock time is using proof of elapsed time? (e.g. a serial computation) Under the assumption no one has anything faster than CMOS at 4GHz?
<andytoshi>
yup
<andytoshi>
you can loosen that assumption a bit, generally for "protocol stalled, we have to back out" locktimes it's ok if you overshoot
<bsm1175321>
Indeed that's the only way I know to measure time without reference to a third party.
<andytoshi>
so maybe a want to locktime you for a day, so i make a puzzle i think you'll spend 2 weeks on, just in case
<bsm1175321>
But the assumption makes me uncomfortable.
<andytoshi>
it's not a _lot_ different from the PoW assumption
<bsm1175321>
Just different in parallelization
<andytoshi>
yeah
<bsm1175321>
andytoshi: do you have a specific example of such a computation? Googling is tied up with a lot of Intel marketing mumbo jumbo.
<bsm1175321>
How does the challenger know the solution but the prover does not?
<bsm1175321>
(without performing the serial computation himself)
<andytoshi>
bsm1175321: yeah, the challenger makes a RSA modulus n = pq. he can quickly compute 2^(2^bignumber) because he knows 2^bignumber mod phi(n), while everyone else has to do bignumber many squarings
<andytoshi>
this is fairly standard, lemme see if i can find a citation..
<kanzure>
stream was pretty bad, lots of audio chunks were missing
<bsm1175321>
andytoshi: Oh you're just using a short key and forcing the prover to brute-force it?
<andytoshi>
yeah, i inferred that, i haven't listened to it with audio. i might fill in the gaps if i get a chance on diyhplus ... i'm getting 403 errors now instead of a login prompt, unsure if my browser is broken or your server is
<bsm1175321>
But won't the solving time be non-linear (statistical -- if he happens to get lucky and lands on the right key early)
<andytoshi>
bsm1175321: if the prover is guessing values, yes, i'm not aware of a guessing method that is anywhere near as fast as just doing the squarings
<bsm1175321>
I was thinking: compute h(h(h(h(...x...))) which can only be computed serially...so same amount of time for the challenger and prover.
<bsm1175321>
andytoshi: if brute-forcing the short key is indeed statistical in the time required, you can always require multiple puzzles to reduce the standard deviation on the expected time to solve them.
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<bsm1175321>
andytoshi: couldn't you do exactly the same thing (as the Rivest post above) using ECC crypto for smaller proofs: compute g^(2^t) for some generator point g.
<bsm1175321>
How much of a bother would the existence of non-constant time algorithms for ECC point multiplication be?
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<tromp_>
bsm1175321: in ECC, the group order is known, so everyone can reduce the exponent
<bsm1175321>
That's why I chose a base generator g instead of 2.
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<tromp_>
if nG=0 then nG'=0 also
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<tromp_>
question on UASF: if activated, but hashpowe majority keeps longest chain segwit-free, then nothing has changed?
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<fibonacci>
Hey guys.. I think we should add 5 decimal places to bitcoin for a total of 13 places, the next logical step. It will add a whole new micro market of alt coin trade and prop btc and some other alts which also help the btc economy.
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<fibonacci>
That way btc can go to 10k-100k usd and the fibonacci fragments will still be useable for small transactions like gumballs and baseball cards.