sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<a87ry5>
gmaxwell: can you explain how the introduction of NOPs was not actually a hard fork? I understand the supposition that prior to 0.3.6 unknown OPs were treated as NOPs are now, but where in the code can that be gleaned exactly?
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<andytoshi>
does anyone remember an old quote from a zcash(?) developer about the risk of crypto inflation bugs, to the effect that (a) bugs in the math should be caught by peer review; (b) bugs in the implementation should result in detectably-bad proofs getting through, so such things can be soft-forked out as they are discovered
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<sarang>
That would seem to run counter to their Sprout-to-Sapling migration strategy, if I'm understanding the context correctly
<andytoshi>
yeah, i can't remember the exact quote or even what the exact argument was, i'm curious how it holds up in light of the last few years of experience
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<riclas>
does anyone have a good description of the DDoS problem with dandelion's current implementation? the github PT statement is not very descriptive
<riclas>
it seems the problem was discussed on irc, i guess, i'm reading sdaftuar's message as "the problem". but no direct info there
<sarang>
I would be interested to know what specifically is at play. That thread mentions DoS during the stem phase
<riclas>
right, that's the only mention
<sarang>
Presumably a DoS in the fluff phase is functionally identical to what would happen currently
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<sipa>
correct
<sipa>
the core issue is that in bitcoin core's mempool implementation we make the assumption that transactions which get accepted into the mempool eventually get confirmed, and thus pay a fee, which can be enforced to be incremented whenever something replaces something else
<sipa>
but i can't remember the exact details of the conversation we had about it
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<riclas>
the most recent paper on the issue says to use an embargo map (i guess that's the same as the stempool i've heard before)
<sarang>
sipa: I don't really see how that affects the stempool separately
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<gmaxwell>
IIRC That PR just has no protection at all: you can flow an unlimited amount of traffic through stem relay without paying any fees.
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<gleb>
I was discussing this with someone at the conference, and then a grin developer approached me: "What kind of DoS? Grin node software has dandelion implemented". Perhaps we should just ask Albus Dumbledore to help us with dandelion challenges in bitcoin :)
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<gmaxwell>
it isn't news that altcoins are reckless and don't care about actually being robust.. :)
<gmaxwell>
There isn't any fundimental challenge here AFAIK, it's just a software engineering question.
<sipa>
if we're fine with memory usage bounded by mempoolsize*peers it's easy :)
<gmaxwell>
We could simply have three complete mempools in bitcoin core (the public one, and one private one for each dandilion output peer) , if we were willing to tolerate the additional memory use and slowness removing confirmed transactions when connecting blocks.
<sipa>
one per input peer, no?
<gmaxwell>
hm. I thought we could apply them per output peer, no?
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<gmaxwell>
like a dandelion tx comes in, you see which output peer it would use, and use that output peer's mempool.
<sipa>
hmm, possibly
<gmaxwell>
In any case, 'just a constant factor difference' between your and my 'solutions'.
<gmaxwell>
But they're both unattractive.
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