<whitequark>
electronic_eel: hm, i'm somewhat concerned about all the connector moves
<whitequark>
they are all so minute as to be within mechanical tolerances of any existing adapters, right?
<electronic_eel>
they are minute, so existing addons should still fit
<electronic_eel>
but now it should be easier for other users to create new addons
<whitequark>
great. and the big connectors are also now on a proper grid. that's both of the concerns
<whitequark>
yes. excellent. thanks, i completely missed that
<whitequark>
(i was worried about breaking existing addons *and* ending up in an arduino situation)
<electronic_eel>
also the dimensions just add up, you can just enter the numbers from the dimension layer into your cad and you should be done, without having to add or subtract, multiply or whatever
<electronic_eel>
the distance in the dimension layer is now the distance between pin 1 of connector a and pin 1 of connector b
<electronic_eel>
esden wants to finish revC2 very soon and order prototypes. one issue still open is updating the led descriptions. it should be finished for the prototypes because of photos for the campaign
<whitequark>
i don't like how verbose it is in general, though i am not opposed to it because i assume esden has some good reason to go through this effort that i might not understand
<electronic_eel>
I think the idea is to give the user an overview about which section does what. also it works a bit as a feature list for the people that prefer to look at the board instead of text
<whitequark>
does anyone actually do that?
<whitequark>
the former i mean
<whitequark>
hm
<electronic_eel>
look at for example at what hackaday posted recently. it was the picture of the board.
<whitequark>
does this mean we don't actually need the labels to be on the actual physical PCBs? we just need them on the screenshots etc?
<whitequark>
right
<whitequark>
i'm still not sure if the conclusion makes sense
<whitequark>
like, end users don't specifically care that the board has an ADC and a DAC
<electronic_eel>
does it hurt adding them?
<whitequark>
in fact
<whitequark>
i think we should actually remove those, because they are misleading
<electronic_eel>
someone familiar with the tech might care about how it is built and goes together internally
<whitequark>
there's no actual analog functionality
<whitequark>
hm
<whitequark>
but the board doesn't even give a good overview of that
<d1b2>
<TiltMeSenpai> level sense and level set?
<whitequark>
what actually matters is the specific selection of shifters, the way we use the FX2 and the FPGA, and so on
<whitequark>
because that's what determines the performance (or lack thereof) for the tasks the board will be used
<electronic_eel>
hmm, the level shifter section is labeled as such and you can easily see that there is one shifter per in/out pin. I think this is what matters
<whitequark>
what matters is that there is direction control
<whitequark>
i would *gladly* use ganged level shifters with direction control if they existed
<whitequark>
like, yes, you're technically pointing to the fact that we use level shifters with direction control, indirectly, by showing that there's one per pin, and relying on the external knowledge that ganged shifters with individual OE don't exist
<electronic_eel>
exactly
<whitequark>
this doesn't communicate the fact to anyone who didn't already spent a lot of hours building the same board.
<whitequark>
and the five people who know this offhand will probably just look at schematic first, not the board
<electronic_eel>
I don't know, I wouldn't underestimate the people interested in a board like this
<whitequark>
i mean
<electronic_eel>
and if someone doesn't get this level of detail from the silkscreeen, it also doesn't really matter. because silkscreen does not cost extra
<d1b2>
<TiltMeSenpai> are there plans for a faq
<d1b2>
<TiltMeSenpai> could throw it there
<whitequark>
i feel like the intersection of "can pick up this implication just looking at the silk" and "studies silk instead of looking at schematic" is an empty set
<electronic_eel>
TiltMeSenpai: esden has a nice overview graph on the campaign page. a faq could also be added there
<electronic_eel>
whitequark: I think it depends on what you see first. if you see a picture of the pcb posted on some news site, you might look at that first. if it triggers your interests, you go and look up the github and search for the schematics
<whitequark>
I guess
<whitequark>
like I said, mostly I don't like the added noise
<whitequark>
but
<whitequark>
maybe I'll change my mind after I see revC2 in person
<whitequark>
it's not like we can't remove it later
<electronic_eel>
we started out with each and every resistor labeled on silk, so the noise is already reduced significantly
<whitequark>
hm
<whitequark>
you know what, you're objectively right
<whitequark>
i'm not sure what actually bothers me about it
<whitequark>
maybe just seems unfamiliar? ignore me, then
<d1b2>
<esden> But I do have a very fine soldering iron, not everyone has access to that.
<whitequark>
electronic_eel: oh that is a clever idea
<electronic_eel>
if there are just one or two shorts on the fx pads, it should be enough to put in a bit of flux and do a swipe with a small tip iron
<whitequark>
i've did something similar with cut off resistor leads and such
<whitequark>
but a needle would work way better
<electronic_eel>
the resistor leads would solder in, the stainless doesn't take solder, so you can still pull it out when the solder hardens
<d1b2>
<esden> @electronic_eel that is exactly what I do when I need to fix things on QFN packages. Takes care of %90 of the cases. The rest requires removing the part completely.
<d1b2>
<esden> Great tip regarding the through hole parts! I have to remember that for the future. 🙂
<whitequark>
electronic_eel: i pull it out while it's hot
<electronic_eel>
if it is an 6 or 8 layer board, you need good preheating for that to work. the syringe needle method often works without
<electronic_eel>
but you are the blowtorch witch, so no problem for you ;)
bvernoux has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<whitequark>
electronic_eel: it is actually a problem
<whitequark>
i *can* use a blowtorch, and i like it *more* than tools that don't work, but i don't like it all that much
<whitequark>
it's way too easy to set things on fire
<whitequark>
it's not a problem because of the fire (ul94v0 takes care of that, i think) but it is a problem because i'm probably trying to not destroy something.
<whitequark>
so if i do it on a PCB i actually care about, rather than just desoldering stuff, it's kinda stressful
<electronic_eel>
you can easily desolder stuff that is hard to solder on again, like bgas
<electronic_eel>
I had to fix an old pc mainboard with bad capacitors once. I wanted to get this exact model to work again and had just this one...
<whitequark>
tbh i usually have the inverse problem
<whitequark>
like i am trying to desolder a bga but i also move a few passives around
<whitequark>
the bga, i can easily get back there. worst case, i just contract it out to the nearest unauthorized cellphone repair shop
<whitequark>
they'll do a far better job than i could ever try
<whitequark>
the passives though not so much
FFY00 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
FFY00 has joined #glasgow
<_whitenotifier-3>
[GlasgowEmbedded/glasgow] electroniceel pushed 1 commit to wip-revC2 [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JUJsv
<_whitenotifier-3>
[GlasgowEmbedded/glasgow] electroniceel 5a711e0 - revC2: move polymer capacitor to allow reworking the pads of the FX2
<_whitenotifier-3>
[GlasgowEmbedded/glasgow] electroniceel pushed 1 commit to wip-revC2 [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JUJsO
<_whitenotifier-3>
[GlasgowEmbedded/glasgow] electroniceel 1dd1fb5 - revC2: adapt text about recovery in schematics to match current silkscreen + reset button
<d1b2>
<esden> @electronic_eel thank you very much! 🙂 I will deal with the keys.
<electronic_eel>
one thing that came to my mind was if you want to try pin-in-paste with the usb connector
<electronic_eel>
like make a larger opening for the through hole parts in the stencil
<d1b2>
<esden> I already did pin-in-paste with this connector on another board.
<electronic_eel>
and, how did it work? was there enough solder on the tht parts?
<d1b2>
<esden> All it needed is opening the stencil up for the pin pads. There is some additional tweaking that can be done, where the opening is even bigger to provide more solder to the pin. But it worked ok with the amount it got already.
<electronic_eel>
so why not try to enlarge the opening a bit?
<electronic_eel>
or do you want to do that at a later stage?
<d1b2>
<esden> Because that is dependent on the assembler, and what stencil thickness they will use at the end.
<d1b2>
<esden> But yeah we can probably enlarge it now already.
<d1b2>
<esden> Whoever assembles will have to tweak it anyways.