aschmahmann changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.7.0 and js-ipfs 0.52.3 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of Conduct: https://git.io/vVBS0
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<wings[m]>
theseb zerotier is absolutely open source dawg
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<alessandroEtc>
what platform are people using to run the chat?
<Evanito[m]>
You mean this matrix channel? I'm using Element Desktop
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<Discordian[m]>
alessandroEtc is in IRC
<Discordian[m]>
I was wondering, can I rename my `self` key, and make a new one without breaking anything?
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<Evanito[m]>
Yeah uses `ipfs key rotate` I think?
<Evanito[m]>
* Yeah use `ipfs key rotate` I think?
<Discordian[m]>
Been a long day but prototype of my IPFS syncing software is complete and working! I'll try to get it a bit more finalised (like having a config file, more docs), and then release hopefully tomorrow 🙂. What it does is sync a folder on your filesystem to IPFS, updating MFS whenever a file changes (using fsnotify), then every chosen interval (default 10s) it updates the IPNS address and updates your pins.
<Discordian[m]>
<Evanito[m] "Yeah uses `ipfs key rotate` I th"> I was gonna just use `ipfs key rename self <newkey>`
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<Discordian[m]>
I think rotate will rotate all my keys
<Discordian[m]>
* Been a long day but prototype of my IPFS syncing software is complete and working! I'll try to get it a bit more finalised (like having a config file, more docs), and then release hopefully tomorrow 🙂. What it does is sync an array of folders on your filesystem to IPFS, updating MFS whenever a file changes (using fsnotify), then every chosen interval (default 10s) it updates the IPNS address and updates your pins.
<Discordian[m]>
* Been a long day but prototype of my IPFS syncing software is complete and working! I'll try to get it a bit more finalised (like having a config file, more docs), and then release hopefully tomorrow 🙂. What it does is sync an array of folders on your filesystem to IPFS, updating MFS whenever a file changes (using fsnotify), then every chosen interval (default 10s) it updates the IPNS address and updates your pins if
<Discordian[m]>
you have a new CID.
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<theseb>
How can irreplaceable data be safely stored on IPFS since nodes can come and go freely? e.g. Could a hospital store encrypted records in IPFS?
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<Discordian[m]>
You'd basically have to host it on your own nodes or rely on some level of altruism. Or if for example, in a universe where everyone uses IPFS, the hospital could share the records with the patient, having them pin it, and the patient would also have a permanent record. The risk of loss still exists though. My understanding is data being lost due to no one storing it or accessing it is part of the design.
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<theseb>
Discordian[m]: fair enough...so IPFS isn't meant to replace cloud storage solutions from AWS and Azure?
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<Discordian[m]>
I wouldn't say quite as much if you want a 100% guarantee of ALL data being accessible at all times without a server, no. However if you're aware of the limitations, I'd say go for it. I'm learning myself, and I'm finishing up a directory sync software rn actually.
<Discordian[m]>
IMO if you already have a local server with a backup solution, IPFS is excellent for getting those records online and accessible. So you could have several hospitals hosting nodes, pinning shared data, and have some redundancy. I wouldn't say you could simply do a drop-in replacement of a managed backup solution yet though, not unless you had a technical staff managing the setup
<swedneck>
in the example of a hospital, you could have something like each hospital mirroring the data for each other
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<swedneck>
and this can scale for everything between having a single server node, to everyone having their own node with full replication
<swedneck>
or hell, you could just have each hospital replicate the data of only nearby hospitals
<swedneck>
that may be a good balance of used storage space and reliance
<swedneck>
* that may be a good balance of used storage space and reliability
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<Discordian[m]>
<swedneck "or hell, you could just have eac"> I was thinking exactly that. I'd love to see a record system like that distributed securely over IPFS. Even if not nearby ones, but just shared patient data. It'd be so easy for multiple hospitals to have access to the exact same records. And with some scheming, even be able to update them 🙂
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<theseb>
Discordian[m], swedneck: what you guys basically seem to be suggesting is that more and more entities (hospitals, businesses, etc.) could themselves become mini-cloud service providers helping each other......
<Discordian[m]>
Yes 😀
<theseb>
For that to happen I imagine you'd need to have super robust user friendly open source software to make the creation of a mini cloud service provider nearly plug-n-play
<Discordian[m]>
As IPFS gets more popular, more user-friendly, with more tools, it'll get easier and easier to setup services that reliably use IPFS.
<theseb>
Discordian[m]: wait..but your "lots of mini-cloud service providers" is a separate idea from ipfs
<theseb>
right?
<theseb>
Discordian[m]: ipfs doesn't distinguish between different nodes does it?
<theseb>
Discordian[m]: could you tell ipfs..."Please only store my sensitive data in these super reliable nodes run by these hospitals?"
<swedneck>
<theseb "For that to happen I imagine you"> installing ipfs is trivial
<Discordian[m]>
<theseb "Discordian: wait..but your "lots"> No, I'm talking about running on IPFS directly.
<Discordian[m]>
<swedneck "installing ipfs is trivial"> Trivial to install and use for basic things, but complicated things require at the very least, people who understand IPFS well.
<theseb>
Discordian[m]: so ipfs *would* be useful as a standard set of APIs for our mini-cloud providers?
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<Discordian[m]>
I'm not sure what you mean by "mini-cloud providers" but probably? Like if you already run your own servers, it's an easy switch. Otherwise even running off of local nodes connected to the Internet could do the trick. It's not without some work to accomplish though.
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<theseb>
Discordian[m], swedneck: Can I ask what most excites you about ipfs? I'm trying to figure what the most awesome thing about it and what has the most potential
<Discordian[m]>
I like that I can publish things to a global network in a way where I don't actually require servers to distribute and create applications. They can perpetuate more-or-less based on usage. I'm super excited about developing on it, and I'm still working out how far I can go with it. It's still fairly young too, and the style the developers are creating the project is admirable IMO. One feature at a time is slowly
<Discordian[m]>
introduced, and polished. This gives me a lot of confidence in the future of IPFS.
<swedneck>
torrent is good, ipfs is similar and has many advantages to it
<swedneck>
that's probably the best i can do in terms of summary
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<Discordian[m]>
C'
<Discordian[m]>
* C'mon Jan, with all your experience, where's the passion? 😛 (just poking fun)
<swedneck>
my toes hurt, give me a break
<Discordian[m]>
Oof! You're always in pain eh? I can relate
<Sheogorath[m]>
How enumerable is IPFS? I'm mainly curious because I wonder how a CID is discovered as in "does my node have to announce a CID and if so, can nodes in the network learn about CIDs before they are requested?"
<swedneck>
oh i guess another easy thing to mention is how modular ipfs is, it's not just one big mono-protocol
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<swedneck>
afaik you cannot ask nodes for a list of the data they have, you can only ask them if they have a specific piece of data
<swedneck>
however you could of course do basically anything you want with pubsub
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<swedneck>
* however you could of course do basically anything you want with pubsub, if all nodes agree on it
<Discordian[m]>
Is pubsub popular? I noticed it's still "experimental", really the only thing deterring me from jumping in early.
<swedneck>
not sure honestly
<theseb>
Discordian[m]: i was worried earlier about storage but it seems ipfs really shines at *distribution* which is what bittorrent is great at....I can imagine a decentralized netflix where content creators can distribute their vids w/o a big company behind it
<swedneck>
netflix is actually working a bit with protocol labs
<Sheogorath[m]>
My main concern is if nodes on the network can learn about CIDs without being the one that has the data and without being the one that the user requests the data from. (i.e. can my node A at home learn CIDs due to being part of the network when someone requests a CID that is pinned to node B when a user requests it through gateway.ipfs.io)
<Discordian[m]>
I'd image so, yeah. Unless your node was in a Private Network
<alessandroEtc>
does IPFS offer any grants for startups building on top of the network?
<Discordian[m]>
I've never heard of a software doing that
<swedneck>
protocol labs would be the organization that offers grants
<swedneck>
and you'd probably want to ask them directly, via mail
<Discordian[m]>
If that's on the table I'd hit them up too 🤔. I'd imagine funding would mostly focus on development though. These things are hard af to fund
<alessandroEtc>
good tip, will send them a note and report back to the group
<Discordian[m]>
<alessandroEtc "good tip, will send them a note "> Thanks! Looking forward to the reply
<swedneck>
fwiw i currently have a grant for sitting in here and answering questions, which is basically freelance work
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<swedneck>
so yeah, just contact them directly and it's possibly they may want to support stuff
<Discordian[m]>
fr? That's not bad at all. This company really is altruistic lol.
<Discordian[m]>
I mean all I do is develop things that interest me, and working on IPFS things full time for an extended period would be really nice rn if I could get paid for it.
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<geoah>
I have a multiformat question in case anyone can point me to the right direction: Is there a canonical way of referring a ed25519 public key in its full (raw) form? There seems to be a multicodec for ed25519 public keys but I'm not sure what I could use it in. Cidv1 only accepts a multihash, and I can't find a multiformat that is just a simple container with codec+body.
<alessandroEtc>
Discordian[m] agreed
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<alessandroEtc>
@swedneck i just figured you enjoyed all the scintillating dialogue we have here
<swedneck>
oh i do 😉
<psywolf[m]>
Why is IPFS hostin only available for billionaires?
<swedneck>
it.. isn't?
<swedneck>
that seems like a very loaded question
<Discordian[m]>
I'm poor af for context, and I host 3 servers, running IPFS fine.
<psywolf[m]>
Docs say you need to be accepted and registred. Just for club members?
<swedneck>
what
<swedneck>
can you link to the exact page you read that on?
<alessandroEtc>
I also heard that document say you need to beat Jbenet in a game of beerpong to host.
<alessandroEtc>
jk. anyone can host. just follow the docs
<psywolf[m]>
I tried it yesterday. The doc guides you to a form to register a project. Or am i completely wrong?
<swedneck>
uhh
<swedneck>
again, can you link the exact page?
<alessandroEtc>
anyone know the total number of files active on ipfs?
<psywolf[m]>
Well maybe i misunderstood. I went trough filecoin.. Powergate
<swedneck>
<alessandroEtc "anyone know the total number of "> not really possible to know, the best you can do is listen for announcements to see what data the nodes you're aware of are hosting
<swedneck>
<psywolf[m] "Well maybe i misunderstood. I we"> yeah that's not ipfs, that's filecoin. it's a blockchain layer that *uses* ipfs
<alessandroEtc>
@swedneck just have a bot try rendering every possible hash combination and record when it returns a result
<alessandroEtc>
it's not the most efficient way, but you could probably do a sampling to see how things trend over time
<swedneck>
<alessandroEtc "@swedneck just have a bot try re"> i would hope that results in every node ignoring you for spamming
<swedneck>
also uh, that would be so absurdly computationally expensive and slow
<Discordian[m]>
Yeah haha, it'd just be gambling
<Discordian[m]>
And unreliable
<alessandroEtc>
definitely couldn't do it for the whole network
<swedneck>
it's like asking how many torrents there are
<psywolf[m]>
Yeah so its currently not possible to host, and recieve filecoin for hosting i guess. Sorry im a little disappointed
<swedneck>
it's not really a sane question to answer
<alessandroEtc>
lmfao
<alessandroEtc>
i think we left sanity when we entered the ipfs black hole
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<Discordian[m]>
Incentive schemes are still being worked on, extremely early stages
<swedneck>
you can still just use pinning services
<swedneck>
honestly more useful anyways since filecoin is a separate network
<Discordian[m]>
Or host a pinning service, get paid for storage that way
<psywolf[m]>
The marketing is what makes it insane i guess
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<swedneck>
anything to do with blockchain is a great way to get basically free money from investors
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<Discordian[m]>
There is no sanity at the end of this rabbit hole, ah well.
<swedneck>
but on the other hand ipfs itself is great and very usable
<swedneck>
and free to use
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<swedneck>
well, not counting electricity and ISP costs
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<Discordian[m]>
Shockingly usable IMHO. It works insanely well for how easy it is to setup.
<psywolf[m]>
Well thanks for answering so polite. I really need to dig into it. I was only following some surface info aka marketing
<Discordian[m]>
Marketing a buzzwords are the bane of my existance
<alessandroEtc>
marketing can only really explain so much
<alessandroEtc>
with everyone shouting you're lucky if users remember one sentence of your value prop
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<Discordian[m]>
Whenever I think of marketing I think of Dilbert, that accurately describes my experience
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<alessandroEtc>
XD
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<alessandroEtc>
how long have people here been playing with ipfs?
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<ZerXes>
like a year I think
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<alessandroEtc>
Discordian[m], swedneck ?
<Discordian[m]>
Sorry, today is my third day here, not sure
<swedneck>
year and a half maybe?
<swedneck>
i suck at judging everything like time and distance lol
<alessandroEtc>
i'm still just a few weeks in, but it's pretty fascinating
<Discordian[m]>
Hmm curious, is there any downside to setting `GCPeriod` to something like 30 days or higher? 1hr default seems excessive if there's also `StorageGCWatermark` to save you from overflowing anyways, no?
<Discordian[m]>
Or maybe I'm misinterpreting how it works. Does `GCPeriod` only engage after `StorageGCWatermark` is satisfied?
<ZerXes>
does the Garbage Collector even work?
<Discordian[m]>
I know I can engage it manually just fine, it also must be working as otherwise nodes wouldn't forget data
<ZerXes>
does not work for me :/
<ZerXes>
my StorageGCWatermark is 500GB
<ZerXes>
but it grow beoynd that
<Discordian[m]>
`StorageGCWatermark` takes a percentage value, 0-100%. It's a percentage of `StorageValue`
<Discordian[m]>
Do you happen to have over 500GB in pins?
<Discordian[m]>
Or on MFS?
<Discordian[m]>
GC will only remove unpinned, and non-MFS data
<ZerXes>
ah, yeah sorry.
<ZerXes>
"StorageGCWatermark": 90,
<ZerXes>
"StorageMax": "500GB"
<ZerXes>
is my config
<Discordian[m]>
So it should be engaging at 450GB if automatic GC is enabled on the daemon
<ZerXes>
yeah
<ZerXes>
"StorageGCWatermark": 90,
<ZerXes>
"StorageMax": "500GB"
<Discordian[m]>
Does running `ipfs repo gc` manually do anything?
<ZerXes>
sry
<ZerXes>
ipfs daemon --enable-gc
<ZerXes>
is what I run
<Discordian[m]>
I think I need to make a test node to experiment with how the auto-GC works
<ZerXes>
dear god, my poor IPFS gateway is getting hammered tonight
<ZerXes>
60% of my CPU usage is io_wait.
<ZerXes>
I guess spinning disks is not ideal for massive random readings of IPFS blocks
<Discordian[m]>
After my most recent HDD failure, I don't like spinning disks for anything other than long-term storage that's rarely accessed.
<ZerXes>
Yeah I really hope I will never have to buy a spinning disk again
<Discordian[m]>
Yeah SSDs usually fail more gracefully at least
<ZerXes>
yeah
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<ZerXes>
hmm, maybe I can put an SSD as L2ARC on the server to handle all the random reads
<Discordian[m]>
I would TBH, those poor drive heads 😂
<Discordian[m]>
Oh jan Swedneck if you're around. I was wondering if dnslink still functions without the Internet, and to what capacity? Are names resolved over the IPFS network as a fallback?
<swedneck>
hmm, not sure
<swedneck>
should work fine if the dns query is cached?
<Discordian[m]>
If it's been accessed before it might be cached locally, I wonder how reliably. It'd be cool if it polled accessible known nodes, and/or reliably cached known names.
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<Alin2093>
ping pong!
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<swedneck>
well at least on linux you can be quite certain how your DNS is being cached if you have a local DNS caching daemon
<swedneck>
even better if you run something like openwrt on your router
<Discordian[m]>
I have a local BIND server, hopefully that's good enough
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<Discordian[m]>
Currently it only uses `fsnotify` to detect changed files, so you couldn't for example, sync an external folder that's disconnected sometimes, or shutdown the daemon, modify files, and restart it, those changes won't be synced. However I think this will cover most use-cases for now, those features can come later. I'm just glad I got something that works, without using a separate DB to boot! 🙂