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<jo0nas>
Jin^eLD: as I understand it, "LiveSuite" is a tool using the FEL protocol - if that is correct then you can find more info at https://linux-sunxi.org/FEL/USBBoot
<Jin^eLD>
jo0nas: yes, but there is more to it, the fel protocol can just load stuff to memory addresses and that works fine, but the .img files that are being distributed seem to have a specific format
<Jin^eLD>
I think they contain some .fex stuff
<Jin^eLD>
my understanding is that this "LiveSuite" tool parses the .img accordingly
<Jin^eLD>
but then again... if it can write the image to nand, then is should be possible with the FEL tools as well?
<KotCzarny>
if someone implemented it
<Jin^eLD>
or would it just boot the image from memory?
<Jin^eLD>
right now I am trying to activate nand support in mainline so that I can at least once boot from an sdcard that has nand support and dump u-boot to the internal nand, I don't really need more...
<KotCzarny>
but i think recently there was some work on fastboot flashing
<KotCzarny>
which is similar, but less proprietary
<Jin^eLD>
I assume nobody bothered with the old nan crap any longer one an emmc versin came out
<Jin^eLD>
*nand crap
<KotCzarny>
that's because nand crap was very proprietary/convoluted
<Jin^eLD>
dont get me wrong, I am not defending nand crap in any way, I am just unlucky enough to have such a device :)
<mru>
nand is always crap
<Jin^eLD>
fun fact back in the day: when I got this board I was tolt it has emmc and that we should put an ext4 on it, which we did, I guess noone bothered rechecking ;) then a month later ext4 dissolved due to fs errrs and what not
<Jin^eLD>
*told
<KotCzarny>
:)
<Jin^eLD>
of course now its clear why that happened :)
<mru>
huh?
<mru>
you can't put ext4 on raw nand
<mru>
not just shouldn't, you can't
<KotCzarny>
maybe those were those tsd versions
<Jin^eLD>
isnt that sunxi nand "special" in the sense that you get a /dev/nand which pretends to be a disk or something
<Jin^eLD>
normally you indeed should not be able to, but somehow we did that without even noticing lol
<mru>
I'd expect emmc to be on /dev/mmcblkN
<Jin^eLD>
yep
<mru>
and if it wasn't, I'd find out why before proceeding
<Jin^eLD>
I think it was a combo of lack of experience and blindly following some instruction howtos
<mru>
well, you learned a valuable lesson there
<mru>
never trust the howto
<Jin^eLD>
indeed :)
<mru>
step-by-step guides can be helpful to get started with something complex
<mru>
but it's important to understand what each step does and why
<mru>
unfortunately many of them are written by people who didn't take the time to do that
<Jin^eLD>
heh... and read by people who dont have a clue - nice combo :>
<KotCzarny>
writing docs is for interns
<Jin^eLD>
well, you can call yourself lucky if there are any docs at all...
<Jin^eLD>
my most common experience was "here is something xyz did, but he's no longer with us and we have no idea how it works" :>
<Jin^eLD>
hmm... I activated sunxi nand in 5.4.18 and I see nothing at all when booting from the sdcard, its not recognizing the internal nand which I was hoping for in order to dump u-boot there
<Jin^eLD>
I guess I need to go back to 3.x?
<Jin^eLD>
or is there some special magic that I am missing?
<mru>
u-boot on raw nand, are you mad?
<Jin^eLD>
:)
<Jin^eLD>
isn't that the default setup of the cubietruck nand version?
<mru>
maybe
<mru>
if so, they're mad
<mru>
nand flash is _unreliable_
<KotCzarny>
jin: have you read about nand on the wiki?
<KotCzarny>
legacy and mainline nand drivers are incompatible
<Jin^eLD>
KotCzarny: well, I understood the wiki in the sense of "dont mix them"?
<mru>
you need a management layer on top to get reliable storage
<mru>
like tcp for ip
<KotCzarny>
more like, bits come in different flavors
<KotCzarny>
and come out differently
<Jin^eLD>
it sounded like mainline nand is not advised but could work or something
<mru>
they probably use different checksum methods
<Jin^eLD>
mru: I am not sure u-boot can live on top of, dunno, ubifs or whatever?
<mru>
it can't
<KotCzarny>
but i think for boot process to read uboot from nand it needs to be written with legacy algo
<Jin^eLD>
oh
<mru>
if you insist on using raw nand, you should have a small spi nor flash for the boot loader
<Jin^eLD>
ok I should go back to 3.x then
<KotCzarny>
would be nice for someone to confirm/deny that
<mru>
the boot rom uses a third method
<KotCzarny>
but i also think you can simply write mainline uboot and boot whatever you like
<mru>
there are ways of coaxing it into working
<Jin^eLD>
mru: my plan is to use a sata SSD (afaik I can't boot the cubietruck from it directly?) and I'd very much like to get rid of the sdcard, thats the reason of my uboot in nand quest...
<mru>
it can be done
<mru>
you need to write u-boot in the format the boot rom expects
<mru>
it's a common problem on many socs, not just sunxi
<Jin^eLD>
well, i know it has been setup like that when I got the board years ago, so I only need to reproduce it somehow and ideally dump a newer u-boot in there
<plaes>
Jin^eLD: use SPI
<mru>
is there an spi nor flash on the board?
<Jin^eLD>
I dont think so
<mru>
cheapskates
<plaes>
we actually rolled out ~10+ devices with u-boot on NAND and which then did network boot.. but they failed quite often :(
<plaes>
and then we just used sd-card
<Jin^eLD>
Storage solution NAND+MicroSD or TSD+ MicroSD or 2*MicroSD
<Jin^eLD>
thatss all it says for cubietruck 3, and I got the NAND one unfortunately
<Jin^eLD>
plaes: well, this one will be just reusing old hw for a private project
<Jin^eLD>
but if I am wasting time then perhaps I should really just let u-boot live on the sdcard and be done with it
<mru>
unless you need the sd card slot for something else, that's what I'd recommend
<KotCzarny>
if it's a private project, you should really play with it
<KotCzarny>
you will learn a bit about allwinner boot process
<mru>
but there's a slight danger of going mad
<Jin^eLD>
lol
<mru>
if you're already mad, you should be safe
<mru>
do you happen to be friends with any hares?
<KotCzarny>
if you have more than one sbc at home you are already mad
<Jin^eLD>
well, I can't say I am all too interested into understanding every bit of the allwinder boot stuff, I am only adding "just another board" to a klipper 3d printing linux distro that I am hacking
<mru>
KotCzarny: what if you have more than one boxful?
<Jin^eLD>
lol
<KotCzarny>
mad^box
<DuClare_>
Well, I have a bunch of sbcs in my home office. Work made me mad then, I s'pose!
<DuClare_>
Oh well, they do have parts on daughterboards so not true sbcs
<Jin^eLD>
yeah.. I dont think I ever bought one, got all of them due to work
<Jin^eLD>
and I usually try to send the not usable/slow ones back after a job :>
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<Jin^eLD>
that damn cubie port is built in a way that only the supplied cable fits it, if it was just a tiny bit higher any sata cable would do
<Jin^eLD>
nothing a file could not fix :>
<Jin^eLD>
unfortunately fel can't jump to sata directly, so u-boot still has to be either on the sdcard or in nand
<mru>
how is the sata connector different from a normal one?
<Jin^eLD>
the cubietruck one is totally flat on the bottom, i.e. the side that gets into the slot continues up to the cable without having a step in there
<Jin^eLD>
because the connector on the cubietruck sits deeper on the board
<Jin^eLD>
so the board itself would be in the way
<Jin^eLD>
regular sata cables have the thinner part that goes in, but then they have a step on top and on the bottom so that the plug itself is thicker
<mru>
is the connector they used meant to be mounted right at the card edge?
<mru>
or where the hell do you get a non-standard sata connector?
<Jin^eLD>
I think the wiki is a bit outdated? it says you need an initramfs to boot from SATA, but afaik recent u-boots have native sata support, actually I can ext4ls my drive from uboot
<mru>
when was a wiki ever not out of date?
<Jin^eLD>
:)
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<hexdump0815>
Ashleee: i just ran at your tries to get the dram timing working on your tanix box ... i'm the one jernej: was remote debugging my dram timing problems with
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<hexdump0815>
Ashleee: we got to the point where it was failing dozens of times but always once after a few minutes finally it worked :)
<hexdump0815>
Ashleee: maybe trying to go that route might help you to get it booting this way with mainline linux and debug from there what this u-boot was setting as memory timing ...
<Ashleee>
thanks hexdump0815 :)
<Ashleee>
I mean I still have android there so I could try dumping via /dev/mem the whole memory region
<Ashleee>
to see if there's some control reg bit that is set in the allwinner code but not upstream
<hexdump0815>
Ashleee: it would be cool if you could get this working somehow as h6 tv boxes where mainline u-boot cannot initialize the memory propery seem to be very common
<Ashleee>
it is funny, I have 4 of them and each is different ...
<Ashleee>
be it with memory and even eMMC, one has funny eMMC that tries to reset but fails ... so I am using SD card instead
<Ashleee>
then there's the one with memory
<hexdump0815>
Ashleee: that is no surprise at all with tv boxes - it is also very normal that you get different hardware even if you buy multiple boxes at the same seller at once :)
<Ashleee>
:)
<Ashleee>
I bought 1 and then 3 at once and yeah, each is different :D
<Ashleee>
but for the next time I am switching to something better, however leaving Allwinner as they do not have anything higher performance... going for Orange Pi 4 with rk3399
<Ashleee>
but yeah I want to get the Tanix box working as well :)
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<Ashleee>
if only there was pause to press key in stock allwinner uboot lol
<Ashleee>
to allow dumping of anything
<Ashleee>
oh checking the thread I see you had the eMMC issue as well hexdump0815 :D