jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language<http://cliki.net/> logs:<https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp,http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.4.5, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<equwal> There is that one CL that has a special case-sensitive mode. Also you can modify the printer. The point is you shouldn't.
<equwal> OOOooof that is five hours ago.
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<nanthil___> can someone join me in clschool?
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<nanthil___> thoughts on the book ansi common lisp?
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<nanthil___> anyone paying attention in here?
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<SaganMan> sorry for nick changes
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<no-defun-allowed> hi beach
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<zigpaw> morning :)
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<phoe> heyy
<minion> phoe, memo from pierpa: ah! never heard of this one
<beach> Hi phoe.
<LdBeth> Good morning
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<phoe> Hey beach
<beach> phoe: What's up?
<phoe> beach: laundry and such. I'm also thinking about how to implement my new Lisp library.
<phoe> The one with Petri nets.
<beach> Ah, OK.
<phoe> And also cleaning up my hard drives.
<phoe> This ain't a lazy Saturday. (:
<beach> I understand.
<phoe> Brb now - it's laundry time.
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<p_l> ... lazy saturday? what's that? :D
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<phoe> a mythical creature originating from ancient Southern Europe
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<shka_> good day
<beach> Hello shka_.
<no-defun-allowed> hi beach and shka_
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<mgsk> I have something like (let ((info 0)) (mutates-input info) (if (> info 0) 'a 'b)) and SBCL warns that it is deleting the unreachable 'a. I think this is because it sees (info 0) and doesn't expect it to be mutated? Any idea how I can stop that warning
<mgsk> Stop/fix
<shka_> mgsk: numbers are unmutable
<beach> mgsk: What does mutates-input do?
<shka_> the thing you are doing won't wonrk
<Shinmera> Assuming mutates-input is a function, a function cannot change bindings.
<no-defun-allowed> yeah, numbers are by reference so you can't set a new value for info
<shka_> no-defun-allowed: that… makes no sense
<no-defun-allowed> lol, by reference
<Shinmera> No, all function arguments are pass by value.
<no-defun-allowed> *not by reference
<no-defun-allowed> i can and have changed struct values so there's some pointers involved somewhere
<shka_> anyway, you can't mutate numbers
<no-defun-allowed> numbers don't have pointers. you can mutate sequences, structs and objects cause those do somewhere.
<shka_> what the heck is pointer in lisp?
<no-defun-allowed> odds are you're just setting the value passed to the function which does nothing outside the function
<Shinmera> pointers are orthogonal to mutation
<Shinmera> and you can have pointers to numbers.
<Shinmera> for instance, bignums are most definitely not immediate.
<no-defun-allowed> you don't get pointers in lisp without a reason, and it's very clear why.
<no-defun-allowed> bignums do cons and are of arbitrary length so they need pointers
<trittweiler> mgsk, you have got two options: either pass a setter, like so (lambda (new) (setq info new)) to your function, or you need to "box" your value, for example by putting it into a list, a vector, or a structure: (let ((info (vector 0))) (mutate-it info) ...)) and mutate-it would use (setf (elt arg 0) 42)
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<mgsk> That all makes sense. Thanks
<Shinmera> trittweiler: third option is a macro. fourth option is to return a new value.
<beach> trittweiler: Thirds option, make it a macro.
<trittweiler> yeah
<beach> mgsk: Do you know any other programming languages?
<trittweiler> returning a new value is what I would prefer :)
<trittweiler> returning a new value + rebinding
<mgsk> Yes. My misunderstanding came from this being an FFI to LAPACK, and LAPACK likes to mutate its inputs, and I confused myself thinking info was a pointer.
* mgsk dumb
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<trittweiler> another option is to use CALLF at https://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/darcs/alexandria/modify-macros.lisp (I don't think this ever made it into the official alexandria repository)
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<Shinmera> Hmm. Is there a good reason why c2mop doesn't seem to have method-qualifiers?
<beach> mop method-qualifiers
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<beach> clhs method-qualifiers
<beach> That's why.
<Shinmera> O- whoops.
<Shinmera> Thanks!
<beach> Sure.
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<phoe> stylewarning: beep boop
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<beach> Isn't he in California? If so, it might be a bit early for him.
<phoe> I think he is, yes
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<phoe> I've been trying to poke him since yesterday.
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<Xach> so early
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<shka_> i have a question
<shka_> is is always possible to set position in the file?
<shka_> besides passing file size
<shka_> obviously
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<phoe> shka_: shouldn't be
<phoe> some streams aren't backed by files
<phoe> but then, huh, the spec says it may be *any* stream
<shka_> weird, i know
<shka_> but for now i am thinking just about files
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<phoe> ` If position-spec is supplied, but is too large or otherwise inappropriate, an error is signaled. `
<phoe> so, not always
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<shka_> phoe: that's obvious case
<shka_> i am looking for situation that are not such clearly specified
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<shka_> well, ok, it is just for docs anyway
<edgar-rft> less clearly specified than "otherwise inappropriate" what means "any reason whatever"?
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<lequestion> would this program (written in scheme) never finish running if it used normal-order evaluation? https://pastebin.com/FkqPeVbf
<Shinmera> Try #scheme, this channel is for Common Lisp.
<Bike> i don't remember how normal evaluation interacts with conditionals.
<lequestion> Shinmera, already did, just want to increase the chances of someone answering. Thank you
<Shinmera> lequestion: It's off-topic here is my point.
<lequestion> Shinmera, I apologize
<random-nick> it would finish doing since all it does is define two functions
<random-nick> s/doing/running/
<Bike> psh.
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<gendl> What is up with all the messages from this “Australian hacker” ? Are other people getting those?
<gendl> My phone keeps buzzing.
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<aeth> IRC channels which have not taken measure to stop spam are getting spammed.
<gendl> Maybe not in this channel but all over IRC apparently.
<aeth> A couple of days ago, it was in more than half of my channels. Now it's just one.
<adlai> spam ain't free when it costs identity.
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<phoe> gendl: freenode's been under a spam attack for a few days now.
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<gendl> phoe: well I hope my $5/month helps them to sort it out (I guess my $5 goes to IRC Cloud through, not Freenode)...
<gendl> Ok Google just released a [kick-ass looking rendering engine](https://github.com/google/filament)
<gendl> First one to make a CL interface to it gets a Gendl AGPL exception.
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<gendl> (talk to me first to work out details of course, if anyone takes this seriously)
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<Shinmera> They're also spamming people directly through privmsgs now, so set +R on yourself if that happens.
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<gendl> Shinmera: Yes it's happening to me. So I shouldn't take it personally? Anyway you read my mind, I was just going to ask how to prevent that.
<Shinmera> Yes, just /mode gendl +R should do the trick for now.
<gendl> Done, thanks.
<pjb> what does +R do?
<Shinmera> Only allows people who are identified with NickServ (+i) to privmsg you
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<gendl> How can I confirm that I myself am identified with NickServ?
<phoe> gendl: /msg nickserv info
<Shinmera> Type /mode, it'll show +i if you are identified.
<Shinmera> Or that
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<Bike> also, you're in this +r channel
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<makomo> hello \o
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<LdBeth> Morning
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<makomo> i have a question regarding the hardware simulation thingy that i mentioned before (but no recollection is required :-))
<makomo> processes within components (blocks of instructions that describe how the component behaves; the processes themselves are run concurrently with other processes within the component) are just lisp code
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<makomo> certain special functions will be defined by the system that are to be used for synchronization, etc.
<makomo> if i want to ensure that a process block does use one of these synchronization functions, how do i do it?
<makomo> a block is just a chunk of lisp code, so i'd have to somehow codewalk the thing and see if it calls the synchronization function, right?
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<stylewarning> Who is the maintainer of CL-PPCRE?
<minion> stylewarning, memo from phoe: Hey - please poke me when you have a free while, I'd like to discuss a thing with you
<stylewarning> I made a PR on GitHub. Would be nice to have it serviced. :)
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