Xach changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/>
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<no-defun-allowed> Is it possible to load some files in a directory, load some other directory, and then load some more files in the first directory using ASDF?
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<White_Flame> (:file "foo") (:file "dir/bar") (:file "dir/baz") (:file "lol-more-here") ?
<no-defun-allowed> Fair enough.
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<Bike> you can't have them organized into modules and do that if that's what you meant
<no-defun-allowed> Yeah, that's what I should have asked.
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<Josh_2> Morning beach
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<ebrasca> Morning beach Josh_2 !
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<Shinmera> no-defun-allowed: you can still organise them in modules, but you'd have to set up the :depends-on manually, and need some tricks to be able to depend on things in the parent of a module.
<no-defun-allowed> Hrm. Guess I'll think about it.
<no-defun-allowed> This is probably a bad solution to a circularity problem.
<jackdaniel> no-defun-allowed: only module names must differ, you may manually supply the path to the module directory
<jackdaniel> so yes you can
<jackdaniel> Bike: ASDF is OK with (:module "mod1" :pathname "src/" :components ((:file "a"))) (:module "mod2" :pathname "src/" :components ((:file "c")))
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<no-defun-allowed> Righteo, I could just put in :pathname then. Thanks everyone.
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<phoe> Is it possible to have Slime open in the same window instead of always switching to another one?
<pjb> What your asking is not making any sense.
<phoe> If I have multiple emacs buffers open in separate windows, Slime has an annoying behaviour where if the first window is active and I `M-x slime`, then Slime opens in the second window.
<pjb> slime doesn't open. It may create buffers such as a slime repl buffer, or a slime sldb buffer, etc. Those buffers can be displayed in windows.
<mfiano> Window choosing is hacky in Emacs. Sly is more deterministic, but I recommend setting up purpose-mode for this.
<pjb> No it creates a slime repl buffer, and shows it in a window.
<phoe> Okay, let me adjust to your semantics. Can slime display whatever buffers it creates in the same window as the active one?
* phoe reads up on purpose-mode
<mfiano> No, it dispatches to Emacs for choosing the window.
<jdz> phoe: pjb is being a dick, and you probably mean "frame" when you say "window".
<mfiano> and it's more or less random
<phoe> jdz: no, I mean "window".
<jdz> OK
<phoe> let me record and demonstrate.
<pjb> it uses pop-to-buffer
<pjb> You could customize it with display-buffer-overriding-action and/or display-buffer-alist I guess.
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<pjb> phoe: (setf display-buffer-base-action '(display-buffer-same-window)) ; might be a little coarse…
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<phoe> I am setting up a new Lisp environment, and (ql:quickload :qtools-helloworld) fails for me with "libcommonqt.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory."
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<shinohai> phoe: didja `(ql:register-local-projects)` before trying to load qtools ?
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<phoe> shinohai: yes. I have nothing other than my own two projects in ~/local-projects though
<phoe> I could try with an empty local project dir, one sec.
<phoe> Same issue.
<shinohai> Weird.
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<phoe> Let me scrap the whole thing and reinitialize all of Roswell.
<pjb> phoe: so are you satisfied by the solution I gave?
<phoe> pjb: not yet. Looks like that part of slime is not easily modifiable. I'll hack on it later.
<pjb> it works for me.
<pjb> As I said, it's not slime, it's emacs.
<phoe> Does it affect all buffers though?
<pjb> More documentation reading should be in order, since there's a lot of filters and configuration to affect only what you want.
<pjb> That said, it doesn't seem to be bad that it behaves the same for all buffers.
<phoe> pjb: hm. Seems so. I'll try that when I run slime again
<phoe> I'm trying to get qtools to work for the time being.
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<shinohai> It's been a long time since I fiddled with qtools, iirc correctly I had to do some LD_PRELOAD voodoo or something.
<phoe> there's been some work to avoid doing any trickery like that
<phoe> right now, it should Just Work™
<phoe> (except something still doesn't, for me)
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<iAmDecim> hey people, how long do you think it would for someone thats worked with clojure for a few months to jump over to CL?
<Shinmera> Depends very much on what level of proficiency you want to achieve and how fast of a learner you are.
<Shinmera> So, somewhere between a few days and many years, I suppose.
<iAmDecim> well clearly years....there's a bit =P
<Shinmera> I've been using CL almost exclusively for years, and I'm still learning new stuff, so
<iAmDecim> yeah...a given. i have a few books on hand. even though I started clojure I bought a few CL books that just seemed like that would be cool at some point. ANSI CL, PAIP and Land of Lisp
<iAmDecim> I don't dislike clojure but i'm really beginning to see CL has many more and better resources for learning
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<Shinmera> Sure, those are all pretty good.
<Shinmera> My favourite would be Practical Common Lisp
<Shinmera> And then PAIP after that.
<iAmDecim> F it...may as well tell a look. i'm interested in making a web app for fun over time. how would you compare error messages in CL?
<Shinmera> I don't know Clojure, but I hear the debugging experience in Lisp is better.
<mfiano> That's almost too comical to answer. Clojure has the worst stack traces and error messages I've ever seen.
<iAmDecim> i'll give it a serious look. i already have SBCL set up and did a few hours
<Shinmera> Great!
<iAmDecim> mfiano: one of my frustrations. I think CL may be more fun. and the resources...that pixel pusher guys youtube..jesus
<Shinmera> Do note that a lot of the good debugging experience is dependent on the IDE, typically Emacs with Slime, or VIM with Slimv
<iAmDecim> emacs is god for all things in my life
<Shinmera> Then you're all set :)
<Shinmera> Colleen: tell iAmDecim look up hunchentoot
<Colleen> iAmDecim: About hunchentoot https://edicl.github.io/hunchentoot/
<Shinmera> For simple web stuff hunchentoot works pretty well and has good introductory examples
<iAmDecim> i've seen it. well that makes that choice easy lol
<iAmDecim> what about...do you all have any libraries that wrap react?
<mfiano> Also look at Clack, which lets you write server-agnostic code and switch out the server to something faster for production or whatnot.
<iAmDecim> sold...you have a library that people are saying is better than om
<iAmDecim> mfiano: ok i'll take a look at that as well
<mfiano> Clojure is where it's at for JS development. You're not going to find much in CL, but we have parenscript so you could do pretty much anything yourself.
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<iAmDecim> mfiano: I see. I may have to stomach js =)
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<iAmDecim> ok, lets see...
<mfiano> But, I would start with PCL as Shinmera recommended. The full book is free online if you don't want to buy a physical copy and is the book most of us recommend for newcomers.
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<iAmDecim> ok so that over ANSI CL. I'll start online and order it if I'm liking it
<mfiano> Make sure you read it linearly though, and take time to try to examples and most certainly write the practicals yourself.
<iAmDecim> ooh yeah...I write all code available in books after skimming
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<iAmDecim> truthfully I could really go cl/cljs if I really wanted to.
<mfiano> I'm specifically saying not to skim. There's a lot of information that is important to grasp which may not seem like so at first. The book is intended to be read from front to back.
<Josh_2> Just write the front end in js ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<iAmDecim> mfiano: correction i skim away from the computer, re-read and code as i re-read. I meant to go back and correct myself but didn't want to spam the chat
<iAmDecim> ok, i'm going to go ahead and jump in. i'm sure i'll be in here most of the day
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<iAmDecim> I read twice because I like to step away from the computer. i generaly buy both physical and ebook copies
<Shinmera> There's also #clschool for very basic questions.
<iAmDecim> Shinmera: ok, cool
<iAmDecim> that's another reason why clojure started feeling funny. they migrated to slack and the conversation is just different and not as informal as it was
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<jackdaniel> if I'll ever create a library for js, I'll call it cl-ojure and watch the world burn
<montaropdf> jackdaniel: ahahahahaha
<iAmDecim> lol
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<jackdaniel> if you are into jokes which drag too long I'm sure you'll appreciate that it will run on clozure common lisp inside the closure web browser as a cl-ojure javascript engine
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<montaropdf> I feel my brain cells screaming in terror ;)
<beach> Why?
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<montaropdf> Too much entanglements for them to contemplate. *English is not my natural language so wording is not necessarily right :(*
<beach> Is it something you are reading?
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<montaropdf> beach: What do you mean? Am I able to read what I have written? and by reading, you mean translating?
<beach> I don't mean anything. I did not understand your second utterance, so I was guessing that your problem was interpreting something written.
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<phoe> beach: montaropdf likely refers to the clozure+closure+cl-ojure post by jackdaniel
<beach> Ah.
<beach> Makes sense.
<phoe> I know, right
<montaropdf> phoe: exactly, thanks for clarifying everything so easily.
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<phoe> montaropdf: I wish that all the clo[zjs]ure stuff was as clear though
<montaropdf> phoe: well enough to get the joke and I agree that it begin to be dragging way too long at this point.
<jackdaniel> closure browser + cl-ojure engine will be called clojsure ,) I'll stop now.
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<phoe> we need a CL-gnome layer for convenient GTK bindings; I'll allow myself to call it clogure
* phoe ducks
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<p_l> we need a full-featured UI toolkit that meshes into native environment properly :|
<beach> Like McCLIM.
<p_l> well, McCLIM right now doesn't mesh well with any native environment (the few where CLIM meshes well aren't supported by McCLIM) and frankly speaking, it needs some important changes in protocols to be good even after it regains ability to run outside X11 in default distribution
<beach> I have several remarks to that. First, what you consider "native" must be a personal choice, and in that case, you can declare CLIM to be the native environment. Second, we spend so much time here debugging FFI-based GUI toolkits, that if all that energy were spent improving McCLIM, it would benefit everyone.
<montaropdf> As you speak about McCLIM. If I am not mistaken, it is based on clx? And if I am not mistaken, again, clx still can't properly deal with accented characters or dead keys, right? So the question is why doesn't clx devs/maintainers have fixed that, what is blocking them?
<jackdaniel> I'm sure that it will be easier to improve McCLIM than to whip out a full-featured UI toolkit in CL from scratch (i.e by diagnosing tangible problems and reporting them - even better fixing them; "important changes in protocol" is to vague for me)
<jackdaniel> montaropdf: what is blocking us is time and motivation ,) that said, McCLIM works fine with accented characters and dead keys despite being implemented on top of clx
<jackdaniel> that is not clx job to do that
<p_l> jackdaniel: CLIM protocols predate accessibility
<beach> montaropdf: It is not based on CLX. It just so happens that CLX is the only seriously operational backend we have at the moment. But if just a tiny fraction of the energy spent on debugging FFI-based solution here would be spent writing more backends, everyone would win.
<p_l> beach: "meshes with native" in this case means for me it will "work with" the native environment. Doesn't mean it has to be FFI toolkit, but it probably will need a degree of FFI to interact with external environment outside of Mezzano/Movitz/etc
<montaropdf> jackdaniel, beach: So, If StumpWM is not accepting such characters, It is up to them to fix it instead of you?
<jackdaniel> p_l: then please propose changes to protocols, we may discuss them. requesting a feature "let's do accessibility" is not a proposal
<jackdaniel> also, I doubt that changes to CLIM protocols would be necessary
<jackdaniel> fact that something predates some concept doesn't mean that the older thing is not exensible enough to accomodate it
<p_l> jackdaniel: I actually spent some time recently looking through how accessibility APIs are implemented in practice and how to mesh it with CLIM
<p_l> which is a step forward to state of my complaint from few months ago
<beach> I totally agree with jackdaniel that it would be much easier to improve McCLIM than the other directions that were proposed.
<jackdaniel> yet you've raised no technical concern on tracker and you've said here that "McCLIM is not suitable"; sorry, but it is totally not convincing to me
<p_l> Some more and I should have something concrete to point for CLIM, but I'm unsure if it would continue to be well compatible with existing CLIM applications
<p_l> jackdaniel: feature on the tracker will be when I have enough details to make it of interest, but honestly? CLX being the only operational backend is kinda limiting me on that
<jackdaniel> that's why proposal-discussion scheme is prefered
<jackdaniel> clx backend is mere an implementation detail
<beach> p_l: CLIM is a collection of layered protocols. There are provisions for adapting each protocol at each level. Such adaptation can be specific to your application.
<p_l> as AT-SPI quite sucks to get an usable description of, and all other platforms will require different backend to integrate
<beach> p_l: For example, we have a Emacs-Style-Application command loop that is used for Climacs.
<jackdaniel> my point is that broadcasting "not suitable" without any concrete arguments is quite irking
<beach> p_l: It is totally incompatible with existing CLIM applications.
<beach> p_l: And that is not a problem.
<beach> p_l: In fact, the CLIM specification was created to make such things possible. Possibly very unlike your "native" alternatives.
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<beach> p_l: If you prefer to write some Common Lisp solution from scratch, or use some FFI-based alternative, that is of course up to you. But please don't try to justify your choice by claiming that CLIM is unsuitable for this kind of stuff.
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<p_l> beach: CLIM minus painting that bypasses output records is actually a sensible start, but as-is, it's not much of an option, and McCLIM lack of backends other than CLX is extra problematic (not impossible, just pretty big issue to take care of first)
<beach> Bigger issue that writing an entire library from scratch? I doubt it.
<p_l> anyway, my issue was with "McCLIM as of right now"
<jackdaniel> this is still very vague what you say. how clx limits you?
<jackdaniel> why output records does not fit into the whole picture?
<beach> p_l: But you seemed to suggest creating something new. How is that going to be easier?
<p_l> jackdaniel: the opposite, output-records *only*, i.e. avoid painting without output records
<jackdaniel> why "as-is" is not much of an option?
<jackdaniel> well, if you use the default abstraction, that is application panes, then all output is recorded
<jackdaniel> if you create sheets which do not do that you are in fact working with silica which was "meshed" into CLIM specification
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<p_l> beach: "seemed", maybe. It was more that "this is something we need, and which McCLIM is pretty far from getting soon even compared to wrapping FFI libs". I still quite like CLIM so McCLIM getting there is somewhere on my list of priorities, that 's why I put some time into checking where and how to hook things together
<beach> OK.
<beach> I don't see anything that is closer to "what we need" that what McCLIM is right now, so in that case, it would be good to get more help to get there.
<p_l> jackdaniel: CLX limits because a) interacting with interfaces other than AT-SPI will be made more problematic due to disconnect between drawing system and accessibility interface b) AT-SPI sucks when it comes to documentation
<jackdaniel> that would be more convincing if there were issue reports or technical discussions on #clim channel
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<p_l> I did mention it earlier on #clim, though I had hard time getting through why "write special support just in your app" isn't the right solution
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<beach> p_l: I see McCLIM as a collection of modules, some of which are implementations of the CLIM II spec, others that aren't.
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<p_l> beach: it's just that *right now*, getting McCLIM from current state to "will run across MacOS and Windows with standard accessibility support" appears to be more effort than "figure how to bring CommonQT from Qt4 to Qt6 including writing a C++ parser to generate glue code"
<beach> There is absolutely nothing wrong with modules that use the protocols differently, and with letting applications choose such modules. The specification was written to allow that.
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<beach> p_l: Then just go ahead and do that. There is no need to justify your choice by claiming that it is harder to do it with McCLIM.
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<Nilby> Something like Clouseau feels like one of the most brillant and magical pieces of software I can run, but it also seems sad, like a lost child from the past a without it's mother the Lisp Machine, and is a little disabled on McCLIM vs CLIM.
<beach> Er, what?
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<beach> Clouseau is just an application that uses CLIM/McCLIM.
<p_l> it was more a reaction of pushing McCLIM as default without caveats - because there are important caveats to take before going with McCLIM *unless* you're willing to spend time working on McCLIM itself
<jmercouris> would it be possible to use the approach of using C as a bridge to do FFI to a C++ application?
<beach> Nilby: It is just an inspector for arbitrary Common Lisp objects. Programmable on top of that.
<Nilby> Right, but it's a poignant demonstration of it's strengths.
<beach> It certainly is.
<beach> And we need more such applications.
<jmercouris> things like Next ;-)
<p_l> if I were to make a GUI application from scratch, with no interest in spending time to advance state of the art of open source GUI toolkits, and that allows me to make an application *for other people to use that I don't know upfront* on all major platofmrs....
<beach> p_l: Just as there are important caveats going for an FFI-based solution *unless* you want the pain a suffering of interacting with a completely different language semantics and no GC.
<p_l> unfortunately it would be 1) CAPI 2) CommonQT 3) that one GTK wrapper using GObject (lotsa pain starts there) 4) McCLIM
<jmercouris> I have a lot to say on the matter, and none of those would be my choice
<beach> p_l: You continue trying to justify your choice. Just go ahead and do what you want. I have no problem with your choice. I don't think anybody else does either.
<p_l> beach: I believe we have a much better distributed knowledge on FFI issues :)
<jmercouris> GObject is terrible!
<p_l> jmercouris: it is
<jmercouris> Actually CAPI would probably be my first choice too
<beach> p_l: The pain and suffering I see here from trying to debug such solutions tells me otherwise.
<jmercouris> The solution is clear, CAPI :-)
<jmercouris> and it got me thinking if you can call C++ from a C program, then you should be able to wrap a C++ program in C and use CL CFFI
<jmercouris> is my thinking correct?
<beach> Here we go again.
<p_l> jmercouris: that's literally how all bridging of anything to C++ happens
<jmercouris> so the answer is, yes?
<jmercouris> OK, thank you
<jmercouris> just wanted to confirm
<p_l> yes, but you get to deal with C++
<jmercouris> sure, no problem
<p_l> which is pretty shitty case
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<jmercouris> Is that really how all bridging is done?
<jmercouris> for example smoke does that as well?
<phoe> nope
<jmercouris> OK, it did seem strange to me to thinkk there would be no other way
<phoe> AFAIK smoke doesn't bind to C++ directly, it exposes a static C interface that calls C++
<jmercouris> so basically the same idea though
<phoe> but there is nonetheless a layer of C between them
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<jmercouris> yay :-D
<jmercouris> I love C
<jmercouris> I'm joking of course, but it becomes clear to me that I'll have to become more proficient in it
<jmercouris> it keeps showing up in my carreer over and over again
<jmercouris> whether I like it or not
<jackdaniel> montaropdf: yes, clx only reports events as defined in x11 protocol, so a dead key is just an event with the dead-key code inside
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<jackdaniel> writing something on top of clx to provide input abstraction is of course possible;
<montaropdf> jackdaniel: thanks, for the clarification, I now know whom to annoy ;)
<jackdaniel> (as proven i.e by that McCLIM indeed handles dead keys correctly on standard-extended-input-streams)
<jackdaniel> p_l: all I remember is that you've mentioned, that you'd want to have accessibility on McCLIM (i.e a feature request), not what should be added/ changed (i.e not a feature proposal)
<p_l> jackdaniel: There was a bit more when I was trying to explain what kind of things that requires while trying to figure what's the state. My current knowledge on state of CLIM is much better, but I need some more time to figure certain aspects before I give a concrete proposal
<jackdaniel> OK
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<_death> there is another way.. a Lisp interface that incidentally uses the underlying GUI library.. so instead of having a C or C++-ish low-level interface in Lisp you have a Lispy interface that is implemented in whatever
<jackdaniel> n.b I'd agree with a statement, that McCLIM requires work to be better suited for average-joe developer -- that's why I'm investing my time in it ;)
<jackdaniel> _death: that's basically the idea behind "backends"
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<_death> jackdaniel: yes, CLIM is a good example.. there is a spec that defines a Lispy interface and however it's implemented is none of its concern
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<jmercouris> let's say I have two instances of SBCL running, what are some ways I can communicate between them?
<oni-on-ion> socket/udp ?
<Josh_2> a nice socket
<jmercouris> ok so if I use socket, I can do some FFI between the instances?
<beach> jmercouris: What is your reason for having several instances?
<oni-on-ion> uiop is probably the most portable. ive asked similar question a month ago about sandboxing and multiplayer repl
<jmercouris> my reasoning is sandboxing memory
<jmercouris> one of the Lisp instances will be using unsafe memory from CFFI
<jmercouris> and I do not want it to bring down the whole image
<jmercouris> s/image/program
<oni-on-ion> yea..
<jmercouris> oni-on-ion: how would you use UIOP for IPC?
<oni-on-ion> as portable CL sockets
<jmercouris> I'm sorry
<jmercouris> can you please expand
<jmercouris> I'm not understanding
<oni-on-ion> a socket is a communication concept
<jmercouris> what does this have to do with UIOP?
<jmercouris> UIOP has support for sockets?
<jmercouris> is that what you are telling me?
<phoe> jmercouris: swank
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<phoe> use swank-crew and swank-client to connect to these
<jmercouris> I see
<jmercouris> ah, that is interesting
<jmercouris> thank you
<phoe> or lfarm if you feel like distributing lparallel workload across multiple images
<phoe> if you feel like going down to shared memory or pipes, I'd use zeromq for IPC
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<oni-on-ion> *usocket . did not mean to inspire so much confusion, jmercouris .
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<jmercouris> ah, OK
<jmercouris> that makes a lot more sense now
<phoe> usocket is raw TCP/UDP though; swank-crew is much higher level
<jmercouris> yeah, swank-crew sounds more appropriate for my usecase should I pursue it
<oni-on-ion> nice
<oni-on-ion> though not sure if connecting to one image will allow sandboxing or prevent taking down the image with cffi
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<phoe> sandboxing? hell no
<phoe> swank exposes a REPL
<phoe> if you have REPL access, you own the image
<phoe> either that, or you reimplement swank using some limited DSL implemented in Lisp
<jmercouris> it is not about sandboxing
<jmercouris> it is about errant C code taking down the image
<jmercouris> sandboxing is a loose approximation
<jmercouris> there is no security aspect related to what I am doing though
<phoe> > it is about errant C code taking down the image
<phoe> wait a second
<jmercouris> I am waiting
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<phoe> you want to run a second Lisp image in order to run C code that might destroy the image
<jmercouris> correct
<phoe> as an error recovery mechanism
<jmercouris> yes
<phoe> instead of actualy fixing the C code to *not* be buggy?
<jmercouris> that's correct
<jmercouris> the c code is hundreds of thousands of lines long
<jmercouris> I don't kknow if I am capable of fixing it myself
<phoe> is it maintained?
<jmercouris> maybe given a hundre lifetimes
<jmercouris> it is WebKit we are talking about
<phoe> are you using a maintained branch of WebKit?
<jmercouris> Yes
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<phoe> find bugs, send them upstream to be fixed, get bugfixes
<jmercouris> that's a good plan
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<phoe> that's a way to work with monoliths like that
<phoe> I kind of wonder what good you will get out of this architecture - it seems that you will have one process that is responsible for controlling the other process
<phoe> but if the other goes down, I assume that most of the browser crashes anyway
<phoe> so all you can do is try and restart it anyway
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<phoe> I just wonder what exactly do you gain by using this architecture
<Nilby> Both chrome and firefox do the same with themselves.
<phoe> hm, but they have separate processes for tab rendering and such
<phoe> so it's not just one process, it's dozens of them
<jmercouris> maybe it is a stupid plan
<jmercouris> perhaps I just journal and recover
<jmercouris> I don't know
<jmercouris> I am trying to figure out my options here
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<phoe> recover from *what*
<phoe> what kind of bugs do you expect
<phoe> what kind of bugs do you want to shield yourself with
<dlowe> it sounds to me like you want to run the C code in another process and drive it as a service
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<phoe> I get the same impression
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<phoe> What would be a good way to split a list into two lists that contain the odd- and even-number elements?
<phoe> For any definition of "good".
<phoe> (split '(a b c d e f g)) ;=> (a c e g) (b d f)
<phoe> Oh wait, that's just PARTITION-IF #'EVENP.
<pfdietz95> I assume that's in some semi-standard library somewhere.
<jackdaniel> (loop for (i j) on '(a b c d e f) by #'cddr collecting i into odd collecting j into even finally (return (values odd even)))
<jackdaniel> phoe: ^
<pfdietz95> So your question reduces to "which library is this in, and what's it called there?"
<sjl_> if you're talking about PARTITION-IF from quickutil, doesn't it call the predicate on the elements themselves, not their positions?
<phoe> jackdaniel: fails for odd-numbered lists
<phoe> sjl_: oh wait. Correct.
<jackdaniel> phoe: that's left as an excercise for the reader
<phoe> pfdietz95: correct, I kind of wanted to avoid writing it myself
<jackdaniel> but wait, it is just #'split-list-odd/even
<phoe> touché
<phoe> (serapeum:partition (let (x) (lambda (y) (phoe-toolbox:notf x))) '(a b c d e f g)) does what I want
<phoe> so, I guess I found it
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<sjl_> (defun paritition (l &aux e o p) (dolist (i l) (if p (push i o) (push i e)) (setf p (not p))) (values (nreverse e) (nreverse o)))
<jackdaniel> hardly shorter than a loop, certainly less readable
<sjl_> "paritition" as in "parity-partition"
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<sjl_> but yeah, I'd just write a little utility function rather than trying to inline some combination of existing utils
<phoe> I'll do the same
<pfdietz95> (iter (while l) (collect (pop l) into even) (while l) (collect (pop l) into odd) (finally (return (values even odd))))
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<pfdietz95> Or use LOOP and fewer parens.
<pfdietz95> This could be a place to use IF places, if they were a thing (they are not).
<pfdietz95> (push (pop l) into (if (evenp i) even odd))
<pfdietz95> Er, no into
<pfdietz95> (push (pop l) (if (evenp i) even odd))
<pfdietz95> But one cannot conformantly such a thing to CL:IF.
<phoe> (defun alternatingly (value-when-true &optional (initial-value nil) value-when-false) (let ((x (not initial-value))) (lambda (&rest rest) (declare (ignore rest)) (if (notf x) value-when-true value-when-false))))
<phoe> (serapeum:partition (alternatingly t) '(a b c d e f g))
<phoe> should make a decent addition to CL:CONSTANTLY
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<tahmehare> :vs
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<pjb> Solution with loop without libraries: (let ((l '(a b c d e f g))) (loop with s for x in l if (setf s (not s)) collect x into a else collect x into b finally (return (values a b)))) #| --> (A C E G) ; (B D F) |#
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<phoe> that works too
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<pfdietz95> (notf s)
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<phoe> I wish notf was declared as a standard macro
<phoe> or at least in alexandria
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<pfdietz95> Heh, you already suggested it. Nice. :)
<pfdietz95> Am I the only one who finds the hu.dwim libraries problematic? They seem to have gone off in an unusual direction.
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<Blinda> hi
<dlowe> pfdietz95: that's why they have the nickname hungarian common lisp
<dlowe> I suspect anyone trying to make an actual product in a company will have something like hu.dwim
<dlowe> they just usually won't share it
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<Posterdati> hi
<pjb> hi
<Posterdati> pjb: :)
<Posterdati> I'd like to submit some patches for cffi and gsll to make them run on openbsd 6.6
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<pjb> Good idea.
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<Posterdati> how can I submit them?
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<pjb> Posterdati: check their git repository? github, git.common-lisp.net, etc…
<phoe> or just check the quicklisp-projects repo for where it fetches from
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<Posterdati> phoe: thanks!
<phoe> pfdietz95: problematic, as in?
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<Posterdati> phoe: I had submitted them some time ago, but every new version lack these patch :(
<Posterdati> phoe: I understand that openbsd is not a mainstream platform for develop in common lisp...
<phoe> every new version? what do you mean?
<phoe> were the PRs merged? if yes, are the changes available on Quicklisp?
<Posterdati> they are not
<phoe> are the PRs available on GitHub and clnet GitLab? if not, I'd start there
<Posterdati> every time there's a new cffi or gsll version they are not patched for openbsd
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<phoe> I am confused - if the master branches didn't accept your PR, then their new quicklisp versions won't have your changes
<phoe> please ensure that the maintainers are aware of your patches
<Posterdati> ok
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<Xach> for some reason, building "lime" is taking forever on sbcl 1.5.8 on linux.
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<phoe> Xach: is it making progress, or just stuck?
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<edgar-rft> we'll never know because *forever*
<phoe> God damn Turing completeness
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<Xach> Just
<Xach> stuck
<Xach> It's building in a subprocess so it's not as easy as usual to interrupt and check the stack.
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<Xach> Hmm!
<Xach> It looks like lime tries to listen on a port and it stalls out if it can't.
<Xach> And I had a stale process occupying the port.
<Xach> Progress!
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