Xach changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/>
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<no-defun-allowed> Are there any least-recently-used cache implementations in Common Lisp?
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<beach> no-defun-allowed: Such a cache is usually part of the paging module of an operating system. Is that the context you are thinking of?
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<no-defun-allowed> Not currently; I am thinking about using one to cache some requests that would go to a database in a separate process.
<no-defun-allowed> Also, good morning beach.
<no-defun-allowed> (would → would usually)
<beach> In that case, I would think you could just use a priority queue.
<beach> There ought to be several implementations of priority queues around.
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<no-defun-allowed> Er, not to manage the requests that go to the database, but to cache the results of recent requests, sorry.
<beach> Same thing. Use a fixed-size priority queue in the form of a heap.
<beach> "heap" as in the data structure.
<no-defun-allowed> Right.
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<White_Flame> or hashtable into a dually-linked list cells for both quick lookup and quick lookup of the head/tail
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<White_Flame> erm, hash table of key -> struct of next,prev,key,val
<White_Flame> partial implementation for reference: https://github.com/white-flame/clyc/blob/master/larkc-cycl/cache.lisp
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<LdBeth> what can I do if I want to scrap a dynamic web page
<LdBeth> like get the first 10 urls from a google search
<White_Flame> rm -rf
<White_Flame> but seriously, there are macro engines for web browsers that execute javascript after pages are loaded, as well as control the page load itself, and have access to the filesystem. It's been years since I've used such a thing though
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<moon-child> LdBeth: for general webscraping, try selenium
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<White_Flame> if you want it straight from lisp, maybe you can link to one of the HTML engines and have it crunch the JS effects for you in a real web context
<moon-child> LdBeth: for google specifically, maybe take a look at what googler is doing https://github.com/jarun/googler
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<LdBeth> thank you, I'll look into googler
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<White_Flame> I believe there's also a #lispweb channel
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<Harag> Am I wrong in thinking simple-condition-format-control should work with a simple condition of undefined function? SBCL is saying "There is no slot named SB-KERNEL:FORMAT-CONTROL" but if I look at the condition in a break FORMAT-CONTROL: "~S" ?
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<no-defun-allowed> I don't think you can expect that to work.
<no-defun-allowed> clhs cell-error
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<pjb> Harag: perhaps the slot is named SB-IMPL:FORMAT-CONTROL or CL-USER::FORMAT-CONTROL.
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<pjb> Harag: symbol names are not uniques!
<Harag> pjb: yeah but my point is that the error passed to the handler is a simple condition --- The object is a CONDITION of type SIMPLE-CONDITION. - FORMAT-CONTROL: "~S" - FORMAT-ARGUMENTS: (#<UNDEFINED-FUNCTION JOB-TITLES {10331A9403}>)
<Harag> and simple-condition-format-control should know what to look for on its own?
<Nilby> I always have to: (find-slot-name 'simple-condition 'format-control)
<pjb> You are debugging sbcl!
<Harag> simple-condition-format-control works for other simple-conditions
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<Nilby> Also it's implementation dependant, e.g. on lispworks is called 'format-string.
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<pjb> Harag: try: (mapcar 'c2mop:slot-definition-name (c2mop:class-direct-slots (class-of (make-condition 'simple-condition)))) and compare with whatever other function condition you're thinking about.
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<Nilby> It's one of those things you might think you need, but you probably don't. But it's also secretly there in a way one probably shouldn't use as UIOP/UTILITY::+SIMPLE-CONDITION-FORMAT-CONTROL-SLOT+.
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<jmercouris> good morning everyone
<beach> Hello jmercouris.
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<Josh_2> Mornin
<beach> Hello Josh_2.
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<phoe> heyyyy
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<sabrac> Shinmera: Nilby: Odin-: Normalization code broken out at https://github.com/sabracrolleton/uax-15
<sabrac> Feel free to bang on it. Passes all tests in sbcl, ccl and ecl. As mentioned yesterday, still substantial failures under abcl and allegro
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<Shinmera> great! thanks a lot
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<Nilby> Yeah, thanks sabrac! I'm gonna give it a try trash heap^W^Wfilesystem searching.
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<kmeow> lol
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<jmercouris> how to alphabetically sort :depends-on in def system in emacs?
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<jmercouris> M-x sort-lines
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<d4ryus> jmercouris: hi, some time ago you had problems with running gtk with sbcl on mac, i remember now where i read about main-thread problems on mac os: https://github.com/vydd/sketch#Requirements
<jmercouris> d4ryus: have made SBCL work with it on macOS :-)
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<d4ryus> jmercouris: ah, even better :)
<jmercouris> d4ryus: cl-cffi-gtk within-main-loop macro was running on the GTK "thread"
<jmercouris> however if you manually invoke gtk-main from the cl-cffi-gtk package you can control on which thread things happen
<jmercouris> you can then force al cl-cffi-gtk operations to happen on the main SBCL thread
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<jmercouris> and then rendering happens correctly
<jmercouris> I don't even know where to document this knowledge though, I would like for it not to be lost
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<jmercouris> the advice on the sketch page is sound though, use CCL
<jmercouris> my favorite implementation on macOS
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<pfdietz> CCL, for when you want your backtraces to be Really Big.
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<Nilby> Sadly, non-Lisp UIs seem to force separate OS processes per "application".
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<montaropdf> jmercouris: You could documentat this in the wiki of your github project if it is on github. At least to begin with.
<montaropdf> s/documentat/document/
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<jmercouris> not sure if I should put it on Ferada's repository as well..
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<montaropdf> I don't know, Apple is quite alien to me, in addition to GTK, so can't provide an informed decision about it.
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<developernotes> Hi, not sure what the rules are for sharing links like this, but wanted to get feedback about doing a state of common lisp survey for 2020: https://www.reddit.com/r/Common_Lisp/comments/f0jrnv/state_of_common_lisp/
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<beach> Sharing links is fine as long as you give a short summary of what it refers to, just like you did.
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<beach> developernotes: I am not sure what the format is of this description of the state. Is it just a random selection of remarks from individuals?
<PuercoPope> beach: yes, the previous one is from 2015: https://borretti.me/article/common-lisp-sotu-2015
<beach> Hmm. So how is such a random selection supposed to be any sort of indication of the state of anything really?
<developernotes> beach: sorry, that isn't the survey itself, I just wanted to make people aware of it in case there were any questions they'd like to see on it.
<beach> Ah, OK.
<developernotes> Sorry for the misunderstanding.
<beach> I also don't see any survey.
<PuercoPope> It is common in other language communities to give a yearly report of the communities recommended libraries. But Lisp is more like an archipelago instead of a single community so the opinions will vary significantly
<developernotes> beach: I'm in the process of preparing one.
<beach> Nor any request like the one you just made, i.e. what questions they would like to see.
<beach> Oh, well, I guess reddit is not for me.
<developernotes> Agreed, I think this will be an interesting way to gather a large number of opinions.
<beach> PuercoPope: I see. Thanks.
<beach> developernotes: Well, good luck then.
<developernotes> beach: my initial thoughts were to base it off the Haskell survey: https://taylor.fausak.me/2019/11/16/haskell-survey-results/
<beach> OK.
<developernotes> I will post a link when the survey is finalized and find a way for publish the results for all to review.
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<Xach> I bought the proceedings of the 1994 acm conference on lisp and functional programming, and a pair of articles describes Talk, an ISLisp-derived lisp made for painless C++ interaction. but i have found it hard hard to search for "talk" "C++" "islisp". All I can find is the ACM's archive of the papers in the proceedings.
<Xach> i'm interested in it because perhaps it has useful ideas for clasp.
<alandipert> Xach i'm highly interested in that, as it relates generally to interaction with a foreign platform/language
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<Xach> Bike: that's right.
<Xach> a month ago i bought a bunch of books on abebooks that were all under $10 and forgot about many of them until they started arriving.
<Xach> today's surprise was the 1994 acm proceedings
<Bike> that is an excellent procedure
<Xach> christian queinnec has a paper on distributed, concurrent computing that refers to the ubiquity of the internet
<Xach> the 1994 internet, even
<Bike> none of the authors seem to have papers after 1994. seniak has a startup and some mentions in unrelated papers
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<Bike> this was part of a commercial product, it says. source code might be forgotten.
<Bike> also this paper doesn't mention how it's actually implemented at all.
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<Bike> i found a google groups post that refers to a gz of the free version of ILOG Talk, but it seems pretty down. ftp, baby
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<Bike> interesting, but i don't think this has all sources
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<Bike> stuff in here for K&R C. eesh.
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<Nilby> I think I have a copy of it.
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<pfdietz32> Google Scholar has led me down rabbit holes. I tried to get a copy of a document from UC Berkeley that apparently exists only in their stacks, and is not available for interlibrary loan. I guess I could ask them to scan a copy for me.
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<Bike> librarians are pretty nice about those things in my experience
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<kmeow> pfdietz32: What about?
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