p_l changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | ASDF 3.3.4
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<ldb> it seems that i want a log file system in CL
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<Josh_2> should be easy enough LdBeth
<Josh_2> oops
<Josh_2> sorry wrong ping :P
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<ldb> Josh_2: it's ok since we're the same person
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<Josh_2> *thumbs up*
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<Josh_2> Mornin beach
<edgar-rft> beach: At the risk of disappointing you I must say that not everyone is on irc and not everyone on itc has joined #lisp, so the chances to reach everyone with your message are rather low.
<beach> edgar-rft: Noted. Thanks.
<buffergn0me> beach's good mornings are the best part of lurking in #lisp
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<Josh_2> if they haven't joined #lisp what is the point of being on IRC
<holycow> what are we talking about? what is itc
<holycow> ?
<edgar-rft> itc is a typo :-)
<holycow> ah
<edgar-rft> a holy typo for holycow
<no-defun-allowed> minion: what does ITC stand for?
<minion> Interassure Tirl Creasing
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<isBEKaml> what's IRC?
<no-defun-allowed> minion: what does IRC stand for?
<minion> Idoneity Rejuvenation Constableship
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<pjb> isBEKaml: http://cliki.net/IRC
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<isBEKaml> pjb: that was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek
<isBEKaml> "Idoneity Rejuvenation Constableship" -- I like this
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<eivindst> Hi. I'm having some problems with values of 2-dimensional arrays not getting updated and returning the arrays from within (let ...) returns nil. Could someone take a look? The code is here: https://bin.privacytools.io/?3f6bd7b335f30236#xR2/XDCh8rRvhSbTBGZLyCz9GpxCJUr5OHAj5jnRi88=
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<eivindst> In Common Lisp by the way.
<phoe> that last m-v-b has no body
<phoe> so obviously it returns NIL
<eivindst> Could you explain? I'm new to Lisp in general.
<phoe> multiple-value-bind binds new variables for you
<phoe> but then you need to do something with these variables
<eivindst> Ah of course. Forgot about that.
<no-defun-allowed> What are you trying to do with MATRIX-CHAIN-ORDER in the bottom line?
<phoe> replace that last form with (matrix-chain-order '(30 35 15 5 10 20 25))
<phoe> and you'll get whatever the function returns
<no-defun-allowed> If you just want to return those two values, you don't need to wrap anything around the function call, as phoe says.
<eivindst> Right. I'm supposed to process it further, just forgot to add that part. I thought the actual function returned nil.
<phoe> it doesn't
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<phoe> it returns (values m s)
<eivindst> Also, it seems that the 'm' and 's' values are never updated in the last progn in the function. Likely because of my if statement being wrong?
<phoe> updated? what do you mean?
<phoe> I see some SETF AREF M and SETF AREF S in the code
<eivindst> Hmm, when I print the result, it's all either "inf" or 0.
<phoe> this means that the places inside that array are modified someplace in that code
<phoe> hm
<aeth> Most Lisp implementations actually have 2-4 infinities, if you don't need the type to be an integer. https://github.com/Shinmera/float-features/blob/master/float-features.lisp
<phoe> if that happens, then that's a question whether your algorithm is doing the correct thing
<eivindst> Yea... Trying to implement some algorithms from my algorithms course, but some of them are a pain in the back.
<eivindst> But as far as Lisp is concerned it looks OK?
<eivindst> In the final if-statement, I'm updating 'q' and when it evaluates it should return the new value, whichis compared to m[i,j].
<phoe> the return value of that last statement is ignored
<phoe> ooh, you mean that
<eivindst> aeth: Thanks for the reference btw. For small projects like this I prefer to not have external dependencies, and also, its only integers in this case.
<eivindst> aeth: Thanks for the reference btw. For small projects like this I prefer to not have external dependencies, and also, its only integers in this case.q
<phoe> yes, (setf q ...) updates q and returns the new value
<eivindst> Oops
<eivindst> Thanks for the help. There might be some off-by-1 errors as the reference algorithm has indexing from 1 to n... Will keep looking at it.
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<adam4567> \leave
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<eivindst> In case someone is interested I fixed the algorithm I had trouble with earlier (several off-by-1 errors...). Here is the result https://bin.privacytools.io/?7a9f5fcd44c8bbaa#72IiFHeNtK/vypw7gXfpIgTlYAynpXHzdc3iqVJOQvo=
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<beach> eivindst: Would you like remarks on that code?
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<eivindst> beach: Sorry for the late response. I would appreciate remarks. I'm a bit busy for the next ~45 min. but if you would leave some remarks or discuss at that time I would be grateful.
<beach> OK.
<beach> The DO LOOP keyword has an implicit PROGN, so you don't need that PROGN.
<beach> You should put LOOP keywords first on a line. And you then need the slime-indentation contribution to get the indentation right.
<beach> If you have an IF without an `else' branch, it is better to use WHEN. That way you don't need the PROGN either.
<beach> Instead of doing (loop for l from 1 to (1- n)...) it is better to do (loop for l from 1 below n...). Same for (loop for k from i to (1- j)...).
<beach> For global constants, it is conventional to surround the name with +, so +inf+ instead of just inf.
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<eivindst> Thanks for the feedback! Will do as you say. Is there a "style guide" somewhere I should follow for conventions?
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<beach> The google style guide is fairly complete.
<beach> You also have the LUV slides by Norvig and Pitman. (You can google that. I don't remember the link by heart)
<eivindst> Thanks. I will check it out.
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<even4void> Check out the CL cookbook (the LUV slides are listed near the end of the homepage): https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/.
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<eivindst> even4void: Thanks
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<jmercouris> I have some code that works on Linux, but does not work on macOS, how do I begin debugging it? http://dpaste.com/2RPR85M
<jmercouris> it is *always* the exact same stack trade
<jmercouris> trace*
<jmercouris> source is here: https://github.com/atlas-engineer/cl-webengine for those interested
<jmercouris> in case it is not clear, this is CFFI
<jmercouris> the exact same code in C works just fine
<jackdaniel> I did some hacking to render CLIM onto html5 canvas: https://imgur.com/8ynyukJ.png (bottom drawing is x11 window)
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<phoe> a similar solution will work for you
<phoe> tl;dr mask the floating point errors
<jackdaniel> what's left is to have connection the other way around via websocket and we'll have super-slow and buggy McCLIM backend, yay! :-)
<jmercouris> phoe: I'll try, thank you
<beach> jackdaniel: Wow, nice!
<jackdaniel> thanks
<phoe> jackdaniel: woah, that's amazing stuff!
<jackdaniel> work from yesterday evening and today afternoon continuation
<jackdaniel> I know that McCLIM has many other (and more important) things to work on, but this seems to be fun. html5 canvas api maps to mcclim drawing almost seamlessly
<Xach> jackdaniel: very cool, i have been trying to do something slightly similar - decoupled backends/frontends for vecto. i want to do websocket<->browser interaction locally too.
<Xach> one lisp program that outputs html canvas, svg, pdf, png, etc. without changes
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<jackdaniel> right, that's what I'd like to have mcclim doing for output-only backends (and interaction for others)
<jackdaniel> I have semi-working console backend for vt100 terminal (without ncourses, only via sgt extensions)
<jmercouris> phoe: you are a life saver
<jmercouris> weeks, and weeks of wondering why this is crashing
<jmercouris> phoe: I owe you a million pomelos
<jackdaniel> Xach: is there a repository or it is still in too early phase?
<jackdaniel> the little one attacks me and the workstation :)
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<Xach> jackdaniel: nothing published yet, just some proofs of concept
<Bike> maybe we should get whoever's in charge of the cffi manual to mention float traps, if they haven't already
<Xach> jackdaniel: i had a thing where it sends arrays of floats that encode the operations, and a js shim that interprets the ops
<Xach> like [1.0, 50.0, 50.0] is (move-to 50 50)
<Xach> i don't know if that's worth the trouble
<phoe> minion: bank: jmercouris owes me 1000000 pomelos
<minion> watch out, you'll make krystof angry
<phoe> Xach: curious question, why not strings that denote ops?
<jackdaniel> binary encoding makes sense if there is a lot of data going through the network
<Xach> phoe: i thought it might be smaller.
<Xach> and faster indexing into the function array
<Xach> i don't know if that's true or not
<jackdaniel> wouldn't integers be better suited for opcodes?
<phoe> Xach: if you're very worried about bandwidth, I think you shouldn't use JSON through the web, but rather a binary format over WebSockets of some sort
<scymtym> jackdaniel: the broadway backend has all that. the only difference is that it currently rasterizes on the server side
<Xach> jackdaniel: js doesn't have integers...
<jmercouris> I believe there is an object for integers
<Xach> phoe: websockets is the idea.
<jackdaniel> ah, what a wonderful language
<Xach> jmercouris: what position do you feel that supports?
<jackdaniel> scymtym: I know, this hack is more a self-amusement whim tahn a competition
<jackdaniel> than*
<scymtym> Xach: the gtk people made a websocket-based bi-directional mechanism for this. the server side is implemented in the experimental McCLIM broadway backend
<Xach> what is broadway?
<jmercouris> broadway is a place in new york
<scymtym> broadway = displaying gtk applications in the browser
<jackdaniel> how clever!
<Xach> scymtym: cool
<jmercouris> see here for more disambiguation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway
<jmercouris> it actually is on that page!
<jmercouris> Xach: what do you mean about position that it supports?
<Xach> scymtym: do you feel like https://github.com/s-expressionists/Trucler/ is a good thing to add to quicklisp? someone asked for it
<jmercouris> Xach: what is the max value of an integer? it depends on the JS implementation actually, I was looking at this some time ago
<jmercouris> Xach: I don't believe it is in the specification or something
<Xach> jmercouris: i said js does not have integers. you said it does. do you think the link supports your position, or mine?
<jmercouris> I didn't say that it has integers
<jmercouris> I said "there is an object for integers"
<scymtym> Xach: eventually sure. better ask heisig or beach about the right time, though
<Xach> jmercouris: do you think that link supports the position that there is "an object for integers"?
<jmercouris> either way, I'm not one of the people who argues to "win"
<jmercouris> well yeah, you make a number object
<Xach> or even, apparently, to reveal "facts" or "correctness"
<jmercouris> and then you can invoke "isInteger" or whatever it is called
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<jmercouris> I really don't care
<Xach> Please don't jump in with nonsense, then.
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<jmercouris> I didn't say anything false
<Xach> You did, but I'm glad you don't care and won't try to argue otherwise.
<jmercouris> Except that I didn't, there is an object for integers
<fe[nl]ix> we can all agree that Javascript is awful, and move on
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<Xach> beach: what do you think about making Trucler available via quicklisp? someone asked me to add it for the next release, but I realized somewhat late they are not one of the authors.
<Xach> I know that the license allows it, so I am asking about your preferences, not my freedom to do it.
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<beach> Xach: It might be a bit premature. Let me check with heisig to see what he thinks.
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<scymtym> jackdaniel: i think both implementations (i.e. rasterized and vector-based) are worth exploring. i just wanted to point out that some shareable infrastructure is already there
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<MichaelRaskin> jackdaniel: impressive work!
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<eschulte> I have a CFFI problem in which dynamically allocated memory returned by a wrapped C function can't later be accessed from lisp without throwing a memory violation. (The equivalent C implementation works fine.) Any suggestions, or is this an "on my own as its probably related to specifics of the C code" type of situation? The code is up here
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<phoe> eschulte: dynamically allocated memory? you mean allocated by Lisp?
<phoe> by malloc?
<Bike> foreign-alloc, it says
<phoe> ooh
<phoe> then sounds like something frees that memory
<eschulte> By malloc inside of one of the hooked C functions (I believe `cs-open` in the example)
<phoe> figure out what frees it, and you'll be done
<eschulte> Okay. I'm guessing something on the lisp side, any suggestions for things to trace?
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<_death> eschulte: your code assumes that size_t is the same as unsigned int, but that needs not be the case (and is not, on x64)
<_death> eschulte: you can use the groveller to define a proper size-t type (annoying, I know)
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<eschulte> _death: Ah, okay, thanks. I'll do that
<_death> also, capstone assumes that size_t can store a pointer (what uintptr_t is for).. it is the case on the platforms they care about, I guess, but needs not be the case
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<_death> it reminds me that a while ago I modified one of your libraries (the elf one, I think) to use capstone for something
<eschulte> Oh, cool. If you have a pointer I'd be very interested to see it.
* _death fishes it out of his laptop
<_death> well, here are the two patches: https://gist.github.com/death/d676d769e0a3f48a39ce20d5904beb5a feel free to salvage any code deemed worthy
<eschulte> Thanks, I'll take a look.
<eschulte> Also, changing the type of the `capstone-handle` ctype from size_t to pointer seems to have solved my memory error, so thanks for that too!
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<_death> ;)
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<eschulte> Oh, I should just be using sb-capstone. That's what I get for giving up my package search after (ql:system-apropos "capstone") returned nothing
<_death> eschulte: personally I think cffi bindings is a worthy project.. when they made that contrib the reason for it puzzled me, and I think I asked on #sbcl but they gave no reason
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<fouric> Shinmera: do you have a few minutes to sell me on why i should use alloy instead of clim
<Shinmera> You should use Alloy if you need something that works in an OpenGL context and is Lisp native.
<Shinmera> OR: you should use Alloy if you want to hack and contribute on a new UI toolkit that is open to reconsidering existing paradigms.
<Shinmera> If those do not apply I cannot in good conscience recommend it because it is still much too young.
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<Shinmera> I would absolutely love to have some collaborators for it though.
<fouric> interesting. why "and is lisp native"? my projects definitely are, but i thought that clim was a prime example of something that was lisp-native
<fouric> (that is, i read your "and lise native" as implying that clim is less so)
<Shinmera> Yes but CLIM does not do OpenGL (currently)
<fouric> aha, gotcha
<fouric> hmmm
<Shinmera> There are other non-lisp native things that do OpenGL
<Shinmera> So Alloy is currently the only thing that does both of those :)
<fouric> if i want something that has both opengl and software rendering backends, is either clim or alloy definitely best for that?
<fouric> oh, i think you implied that allow requires opengl
<Shinmera> No, Alloy is backend-independent
<fouric> aha, alright
<Shinmera> There's currently just only an OpenGL one because I have only so much time.
<fouric> makes sense
<fouric> and, is there potential for alloy to offer run-time introspection of widgets? that is, i'm specifically looking for a framework that will allow me to implement "jump to definition" but for widgets instead of code
<fouric> and hotpatching, so that i can modify said widgets
<fouric> (i don't think that this is possible in gtk, for example)
<Shinmera> Alloy is deeply based on CLOS, so I don't see why not.
<fouric> alright, that's enough for me to start trying to consume the documentation
<Shinmera> Don't hesitate to stop by #shirakumo and ask me questions directly
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<fouric> alright! no guarantees that i'll actually do anything, though, because i'm the stereotypical lisper who pokes at shiny things for a few months but can't finish a project
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<Shinmera> Yeah, I've unfortunately not been successful in finding anyone to help out so far, but I'll keep on trying!
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