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<no-defun-allowed>
LdBeth: Let's see if I remember that type system syntax thing.
<no-defun-allowed>
[blank line]
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<no-defun-allowed>
-------------
<no-defun-allowed>
Γ ⊢ e : ⊤
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<republican_devil>
picolisp looks kinda cool
<republican_devil>
had multi node database adn webgui stuff
<no-defun-allowed>
It's not Common Lisp.
<republican_devil>
only lists not arrays
<republican_devil>
how is common lisp nicer?
<republican_devil>
lisp compiles is one thign right?
<republican_devil>
and has more data stuuctures?
<no-defun-allowed>
Yeah, and it only gives you dynamic scoping, no compiler (which would be very difficult nonetheless), among other things.
republican_devil is now known as nationalist_devi
nationalist_devi is now known as nationalist_devL
<nationalist_devL>
so how do you learn common lisp? it seems daunting and has frustrated me
<no-defun-allowed>
republican_devil: downcased or titlecased "republican"?
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<nationalist_devL>
Im not into republican stuff 100% more nationalist
<no-defun-allowed>
okay, step 1: read The Conquest of Bread
<nationalist_devL>
whats that?
<no-defun-allowed>
minion: tell nationalist_devL about Practical Common Lisp
<minion>
nationalist_devL: look at Practical Common Lisp: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
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<Guest91981>
minion: help
<minion>
There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms".
<no-defun-allowed>
That's step 2.
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<no-defun-allowed>
How many nicks do you need to get advice on beginner material?
<nationalist_devL>
oh I just changed it
<nationalist_devL>
bcause I am not longer republican
<equwal>
What is a republican?
<White_Flame>
nationalist_devL: #clschool is also dedicated to learning, while this channel tends to get deep in the details
<nationalist_devL>
political party in USA
<no-defun-allowed>
equwal: not relevant to #lisp, but titlecased and downcased "republican" are two different beliefs.
<White_Flame>
(also, wasn't it always "don't bring up religion & politics in public discussion"? we have off-topic channels for that)
<nationalist_devL>
so let me ask this.....I see a lot of things to do web gui apps and to sclae them and the data part seems more and more important
<nationalist_devL>
I was reading paul grahams stuff and he said that he used files and 1 lisp interpreter for each web client...now that seemsed cool and just stored info in files on a netapp
<White_Flame>
99.999999% of web apps don't need massive scaling because they won't have a massive audience
<nationalist_devL>
heh
<nationalist_devL>
can you do web programming in a functional programming style?
<White_Flame>
and with hardware getting faster, and libraries & compilers getting better, that majority gets bigger
<White_Flame>
"functional programming" has 2 meanings
<White_Flame>
1) pure functional programming, a la haskell
<White_Flame>
2) programming with passing around first-class functions
<no-defun-allowed>
Yes, by both meanings.
<no-defun-allowed>
But you shouldn't really care about paradigms in Common Lisp; do whatever suits the problem and suits your mind.
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<nationalist_devL>
I've heard that lisp allows a lot of freedom of expression.
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<nationalist_devL>
Anyone here do any web programming?
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<White_Flame>
being able to extend the language itself certainly allows a lot of expressivity
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<no-defun-allowed>
You might not want Lisp then if you don't like freedom of expression.
<no-defun-allowed>
Yes, I have written some web programs before.
<nationalist_devL>
oh I think I do
<White_Flame>
there's also #lispweb, but I presume most people there are also here
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<nationalist_devL>
cliki.net has a bunch of stuff
<nationalist_devL>
wow
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<nationalist_devL>
lisp on lines, weblochs antiweb wookie
<nationalist_devL>
whew
<nationalist_devL>
hunentoot
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<White_Flame>
it's hard to know what's the most recent/preferred just from cliki. Hunchentoot & clack are the 2 most common things I see used
<White_Flame>
(will have to get into http & websocket hosting again soon)
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<nationalist_devL>
the mind wanders
<nationalist_devL>
many ways to do things
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<nationalist_devL>
lisp seems to make things as simple as processing a list to get the subset and the sorting the subset and then displaing its or calaucations absed on a subset of data
<nationalist_devL>
is that what it allows? to make things simple
<White_Flame>
yes, performing such operations on lists is part of the standard language
<White_Flame>
the real power is when you use that to process source code (since s-expressions are just lists), and do metaprogramming
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<White_Flame>
also, lisp has arrays, hashtables, structures, classes/objects, etc
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<ebrasca>
Morning beach!
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<antonv>
is armedbear-devel@common-lisp.net broken?
<antonv>
I'm sending email - not receiving it back
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<antonv>
trying to check my subscription options - login fails
<antonv>
trying to get password reminder - nothing comes to my mailbox
<antonv>
trying to subscribe - again, nothing in the mailbox
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<iiee>
python < lisp am i rite?
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<beach>
iiee: I don't think you would get an unbiased answer in this channel.
<ebrasca>
iiee: My unbiased opition is lisp is best language ever.
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<no-defun-allowed>
I quite like the CMUCL and SBCL compiler.
<beach>
But a type-error will be signaled if you try to compare it to a programming language.
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<iiee>
hmm
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<beach>
iiee: I suggest you ask questions about the characteristics of Common Lisp instead. That way, you will get more precise answers and you can make up your own mind.
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<aeth>
Common Lisp is better at being Common Lisp than most other programming languages.
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<iiee>
my lisp variant is superior to the other lisps
<jackdaniel>
weren't you here yesterday with the same bait?
<flip214_>
iiee: because you don't use any parens?
<iiee>
flip214_: maybe
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<flip214_>
well, without any facts we can't acknowledge your lisp's superiority
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<iiee>
flip214_: it does indeed only require parentheses for variadic functions
<jackdaniel>
please refrain from offtopic. this is a common lisp related channel.
<iiee>
my thing is also called common lisp... so i think i am ontopic
<aeth>
iiee: ##lisp is for comparative Lisps, the Lisp family, etc.
iiee was banned on #lisp by jackdaniel [*!*user@109.108.213.*]
<flip214_>
iiee: well, but that means that there's no homoiconicity between macros, functions, data, type definitions, and other stuff
<jackdaniel>
I'm not very patient today, sorry
<flip214_>
jackdaniel: oh, that's not nice
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<jackdaniel>
well, I'm convinced he was trolling
<flip214>
even trolls might teach you new ways to look at something.... but yeah, perhaps this is the wrong place
<flip214>
[sorry, one more off-topic: anybody else having problems with transatlantic sites, like dilbert.com?]
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<MichaelRaskin>
I think pretending calling a different language Common Lisp is a bit on the malicious side of trolling, and I am willing to discuss differential debugging of long-distance routing in #lispcafe ([WORKSFORME])
<flip214>
MichaelRaskin: thanks
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<flip214>
Hi. When trying to render (Shift-Z) or sometimes during normal work blender crashes; the message is: BLI_assert failed: /build/blender-gtX5fg/blender-2.82+dfsg/source/blender/gpu/intern/gpu_framebuffer.c:780, GPU_framebuffer_recursive_downsample(), at '0x8CD5 == __glewCheckFramebufferStatus(0x8D40)'
<flip214>
sorry, wrong channel
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<Posterdati>
hi
<beach>
Hello Posterdati.
<Posterdati>
please help, is anyone using lisp-executable to create standalone executables?
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<lukego>
Quicklisp issue. I'm following the instructions at https://github.com/borodust/bodge-ui-window to install from a specific quicklisp dist but some bodge packages (notable CLAW) are ending up installed from mainline quicklisp instead of the dist I've specified. This breaks stuff because of version mismatch. Some trick to give preference to the out-of-mainline packages?
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<ebrasca>
jackdaniel: Do make group call in Atlanta Funcional Programing about lisp?
<jackdaniel>
I once had a presentation about McCLIM there
<ebrasca>
jackdaniel: Do you manage someting similar?
<jackdaniel>
I'm not hosting any meetups if that's what you are asking
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<aeth>
Any news about what's happening to ELS 2020?
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<Shinmera>
No news so far but it's not looking good.
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<HiRE>
howdy everyone
<no-defun-allowed>
g'day
<HiRE>
I had a dumb idea but I thought it'd be a fun thought experiment. How would someone write a C compiler in common lisp? Ignoring the fact no one would ever do this - I'm curious how you could generate an executable with it.
<HiRE>
the lexing part seems straight forward
<HiRE>
through the magic of symbols
<no-defun-allowed>
What are your requirements for the "generated executable"?
<_death>
it's already been done, HiRE
<no-defun-allowed>
The lousiest way would be to generate Lisp functions, then do something like (sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die ... :toplevel #'c-code:main)
<HiRE>
oh I should be specific. Generate an ELF executable.
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<HiRE>
death, do you have a link? I'd love to look at it