<hjudt>
has anyone trie to use parinfer/paredit together with ya-snippets and can give hints how to set them up so they don't conflict?
<_death>
MetaYan: you're right.. here do-all-symbols test takes around 1.7ms, apropos-list test takes around 62.5ms and find-symbol test around 0.033ms.. I guess nobody cared about making apropos-list efficient
<hjudt>
(in case this is the wrong place to ask, just tell me if i should go to #emacs with my question, but i thought some lispers might use these modes)
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<_death>
MetaYan: on sbcl it uses search, pushnew, sort for each package, delete-duplicates, mapcan, sort for package names..
<jcowan>
The definition of short-float looks outright bizarre.
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<jcowan>
As for 13.1.4.3.4, it reflects ignorance about the Real World, not about Unicode; it is simply not true that every character with inherent case is part of a casing pair
<phoe>
jcowan: yep
<Bike>
is there one of those "things programmers erroneously believe about scripts" to go with the ones on time and names
<Colleen>
Bike: drmeister said 8 hours, 43 minutes ago: lets sort out the backtrace stuff in the AM
<jcowan>
I thought at first that short-float was meant to fit into a PDP-10 halfword, but PDP-10 floats are sign-magnitude like IEEE, so it would require 19 bits. Weird, weird, weird
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<Bike>
yeah eighteen bits is a weird minimum
<Bike>
i guess it's only a recommendation, though
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<jcowan>
I note that on 32-bit LispWorks, short-float gets 19-bit precision, but that's all I know about it.
<p_l>
jcowan: PDP-10 floating point was full-word anyway, iirc
<jcowan>
yes, but the CL group must have had something in mind when they set those limits
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<jmercouris>
I'm trying to make a simple macro for users to define their own configuration in Next
<_death>
phoe: another example, if get-properties is used, a property may be processed more than once in such a list.. traditionally, alists are expected to have this traditional acons-to-shadow behavior, while property lists are expected to be modified in place
<phoe>
_death: huh! that's inconsistent
<phoe>
jmercouris: so you want to gut out the details of an existing plist
<_death>
so if you want to have a "functional" plist, a pcons operator could look like (list* key value (sans plist key))
<phoe>
alexandria:remove-from-plist is better for that
<jmercouris>
_death: are you telling me there is no guarantee that list* will work because it may collect all of the values?
<phoe>
it accepts multiple keys
<phoe>
jmercouris: what do you mean, "not work"
<phoe>
list* is just a consing operator
<phoe>
it creates conses
<jmercouris>
(list* :initiform 30 x)
<jmercouris>
yes, but getf may retrieve ALL the initform values
<Bike>
if you're just customizing a slot that's defined in a superclass you don't need to copy the rest of the slot definition plist.
<jmercouris>
Bike: how not?
<jmercouris>
the accessor will be overwritten etc
<phoe>
jmercouris: the earlier key-value pairs will be taken from the superclass
<jmercouris>
are you sure?
<jmercouris>
I'm pretty sure that is not true
<Bike>
quite sure.
<Bike>
let me find the clhs page.
<jmercouris>
I swear I had this exact problem from a user
<Bike>
but you can also try (defclass foo () ((bar :accessor bar :initform 1))) (defclass foo2 (foo) ((bar :initform 2))), and then (bar (make-instance 'foo2)) => 2
<Grue`>
Xach: is Planet Lisp auto-updated? I've been wondering why my last blog post never showed up on it
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<phoe>
I'm at 72 pages of my book; everything that is not related to the debugger and/or the book afterwords or the condition system reference appendix is more or less complete
<phoe>
it's funny how all of it happened because I got annoyed at a blogpost two weeks ago
<jcowan>
You were writing it to scratch your own itch, which is one of the best reasons for writing.
<jcowan>
I like your calling C a lingua franca; it suggests that it is not only widely known but rather crude and limited
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<phoe>
~
<jcowan>
though of course nowadays full languages like English, French, Spanish, and Swahili are lingua francas too
<phoe>
I could also call it the lowest common denominator, I guess it'll achieve the same thing
<ebrasca>
jcowan: Spanish is very good language.
<jcowan>
Of course.
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<jcowan>
The historic Lingua Franca used throughout the Mediterranean had a very simplified Romance grammar and varying amounts of Portuguese, Spanish, Occitan, French, Arabic, Berber, Greek, and Turkish
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<p_l>
Some of those are partially derived from said lingua franca, let's not put cart before horse
<jcowan>
Here's a sample: "Se ti sabir / Ti respondir; / Se non sabir, / Tazir, tazir. / Mi star Mufti: / Ti qui star ti? / Non intendir: / Tazir, tazir." That should be pretty clear to any hispanohablante except for "tazir" = "callar".
<ATuin>
also "start" sounds weird for hispanohablantes :D
<ATuin>
but besides those it's pretty close to actual spanish
<jcowan>
star = estar
<ATuin>
*start sorry
<ATuin>
jcowan: yeah but there it means more like "ser"
<jcowan>
Yes, LF makes no distinction
<phoe>
I love how #lisp turns into #linguistics sometimes
<ATuin>
anyway, i think all the romace languages are quite similar, at least when reading them
<jcowan>
anywhere with jcowan in it turns into #linguistics sometimes
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<Grue`>
I'd argue that Javascript is more of a lingua franca these days
<phoe>
while you're technically correct, you will never force me to put javascript code in my book
<lieven>
kind of funny that the actual Frankish is a West Germanic language
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<beach>
Can we please stick to the channel topic?
<phoe>
^
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* jcowan
throws (in the nicest possible way) beach at the channel topic, where he sticks with great force.
<phoe>
that's... sticky
* phoe
throws (in the nicest possible way) jcowan at #lispcafe, where the topic of linguistics should most likely go
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<Xach>
Grue`: it is auto-updated
<Xach>
Grue`: what name is it under? (sorry, can't always keep nick->name mapping in my memory)
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<Xach>
Grue`: email me about it if you like - i am afk for a while.
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<phoe>
Got a reply from kmp. I'm free to use his implementation.
<phoe>
Time to downcase all the symbols...
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<heisig>
Great!
<phoe>
I'll likely also want to integrate that system with the standard CL one.
<phoe>
Like, (+ 2 "2") will #'CL:ERROR a CL:TYPE-ERROR. I need to actually somehow turn it into V18:ERRORing a V18:TYPE-ERROR instead if I want the piggybacking condition system to feel somewhat natural.
<phoe>
But I'll hack that later. Let's ASDFify this codebase first...
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<ATuin>
regarding ASDF, is there any way not to include the current directory into the source-registry
<ATuin>
seems that it's including my $HOME and it takes lot of time to resolve systems
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<Josh_2>
hmm asdf does not include my $HOME
<ATuin>
mmm strange then
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<ATuin>
ahh i forgot to say that the program is created using scbl:save-lisp-and-die
<ATuin>
can that be related
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<ATuin>
indeed when using sbcl from the cli i dont see my home in the source-registry
<ATuin>
but when i run that program i can see that the current directory is added
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<phoe>
Is there a way to tell emacs that it should downcase the whole file, except for the strings?
<phoe>
And possibly for the comments.
<phoe>
I basically want the Lisp symbols to stop screaming at me.
<Grue`>
is it perhaps possible to pretty-print this code to downcase it?
<Grue`>
it will strip the comments though...
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<gendl>
Hi, does anyone know how to use the :function option for setting up asdf output translations?
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<gendl>
I'd like just part of the relative path of the input file to end up in the output file, and under a root directory of my choosing.
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<gendl>
I'm not sure 1. where the :function (lambda(...) ...) is supposed to go within the call to initialize-output-translations, and 2. what is the second argument supposed to be ("directory designator").
<gendl>
basically I just want to give a function which takes the source directory (or file), and transforms it to my desired output directory.
<gendl>
phoe: have you tried setting (readtable-case *readtable* :invert) to stop the screaming symbols?
<pjb>
phoe: downcase-lisp and downcase-lisp-region
<pjb>
phoe: in github.com/informatimago/emacs
<Xach>
Grue`: thanks for the email. i found and fixed the problem.
<phoe>
gendl: I don't want to print all of it; I'll lose comments and formatting.
<phoe>
pjb: let me try.
<pjb>
in pjb-sources.el
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<phoe>
ooookay, now, let me figure out how to load elisp code...
* phoe
dives into ielm
<gendl>
nobody with any guidance on output-translations? 😰
<pjb>
check github.com/informatimago/rc starting from emacs.el
<phoe>
gendl: I know nothing about these, sadly
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<phoe>
pjb: it's hard for me to only get the part that I want. It seems that I'll need to literally clone all of your emacs config and use it to be able to utilize downcase-lisp.
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<Bike>
I forget, does CL/MOP/whatever define what order effectuve slots appear in? Specifically for their locations... I'm thinking no, but I'm not sure.
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<LdBeth>
good morning
<Josh_2>
Mornin
<phoe>
evening
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<markasoftware>
How can I set the value of a lexical variable, given the symbol for it?
<markasoftware>
i can't use setq or setf because they're macros and i only have the symbol
<Xach>
markasoftware: you can't.
<Xach>
If that's what you got, you need to use something other than a lexical variable.
<markasoftware>
ok
<Xach>
markasoftware: what situation prompts the question?
<markasoftware>
i have a whole bunch of arguments to my function that aren't quite in the form I want them to be in.
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<markasoftware>
eg, they can either be a number, representing seconds, or something like (75 :min), which i want to convert to seconds
<markasoftware>
there are many of these arguments, so I thought I would (dolist) over the symbols for the arguments, setting each one to the number of seconds it represents
<markasoftware>
so that i can use the same variable names throughout my function as specified in the lambda-list
<Xach>
markasoftware: ah. if i were in that situation, i would use macrolet
<Xach>
and expand into code to make the change
<markasoftware>
interesting
<markasoftware>
that could work
<markasoftware>
yep. Thanks!
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