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<White_Flame>
z147: btw, in the vocabulary I'm around, "rule-based" systems tend to talk about production rules, not prolog (although that can be part of it)
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<z147>
White_Flame, i'm going through the archive at CMU Artificial Intelligence Repository, lots to contemplate
<White_Flame>
yeah, but really it sounds like you need to define the general workflow of the software you'd like to have first, then look at tools that might deliver that. THere's an infinite rabbit hole of tech variations otherwise
<z147>
I'm interested in the past research, as quite a lot was done
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<White_Flame>
sure. Are you looking at writing something from scratch though?
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<White_Flame>
or just learn how things work?
<z147>
White_Flame, i usually prefer to get a fast idea with as many quick prototypes as possible
<z147>
the systems i've been exposed to were closed, vendor-specific java, with what I saw under the hood, very simple rule matching
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<White_Flame>
are you looking for raw rule tech, or something that's fleshed out with a bunch of dialogs and such to interact with the humans? all the open source stuff is the former, except for maybe jboss rules
<White_Flame>
I still don't know at what level you want to create prototypes
<z147>
White_Flame, i prefer to do exploratory use as part of my specification development. So i'm not limiting anything at this time.
<z147>
from the market point, i'm looking at existing systems outside of CL and what their limitations are
<z147>
but also successes
<White_Flame>
the different styles of rule engines have different things they make easier
<White_Flame>
from a programming/implementation perspective
<White_Flame>
but if what you want is GUI-driven human interaction, that's more software written on top of those layers than rule engines themselves
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<White_Flame>
the rule engines used to be called "expert system shells", in that you use them to create expert systems, so they're not immediately able to do "expert" stuff in the common case. So that's the sort of thing I'm wondering about your search
<z147>
GUI is of least concern
<z147>
it will be there, but that's doable
<White_Flame>
often times, there'd be a domain expert, but they wouldn't do anything with the system; the "knowledge engineer" would encode what they deal with the expert into the rule forms
<White_Flame>
some advanced systems sought to allow the domain expert to directly enter stuff, and that's a whole other system
<z147>
what happened to expert system shells, the term fell off the radar, the approach remains in other forms?
<White_Flame>
the tech went mostly into BRMS (business rules management systems), where they became less interactive
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<White_Flame>
most of the stuff that I saw had you select which ruleset to use, and which data to seed it with, then it ran to completion and gave you an answer
<White_Flame>
so it ends up being a fancy function call instead of a dynamic interacting system
<White_Flame>
so you have a big Java enterprise application, that makes calls out to the BRMS to make configurable decisions
<White_Flame>
each independently manifested
<z147>
I suppose it's called expert systems and rules management as far as current publications
<White_Flame>
which is completely different than the older style where the system would dialogue with the user, asking questions abotu stuff it didn't know
<White_Flame>
in order to flesh out the knowledge so all the rules could activate
<White_Flame>
that dialoguing system is something built on top of the rule engines; it's not an implicit feature of them
<White_Flame>
or at least, not of the standard model of especially open source ones. That dialoguing was commercial special sauce
<White_Flame>
but again, the modern stuff eschews interactivity and simply crunches a result from input facts in batch
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<White_Flame>
because it's used to analyze business dat
<White_Flame>
a
<z147>
I'm going to follow up in a few weeks on this topic, as there's lots to review
<White_Flame>
yep
<z147>
I might also get emergency drafted so we'll see , but thanks for all the pointers.
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<beach>
Hmm, still nothing from the ELS referees.
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<ecraven>
just out of interest, does CLOS offer support for setting the *print-base* of slots? so when printing or inspecting an object, some slots would automatically be shown in a different base?
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<beach>
ecraven: Sure, you can create an :AROUND method that does that.
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<beach>
... at least to some extent. The inspector of SBCL does not use DESCRIBE, so an :AROUND method on DESCRIBE-OBJECT will not work in that case.
<beach>
ecraven: I recommend you use Clouseau instead. It is much more flexible in terms of configuration and customization.
<ecraven>
thanks ;)
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<Josh_2>
does the macro in listing 3.6 the defmacro with g! work properly?