<flip214>
you first define a package that :USEs some other packages, then go IN-PACKAGE and have the :USEd package symbols available without package prefix.
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<beach>
flip214: 1. It is specbot, not minion who knows about the Common Lisp HyperSpec.
<beach>
flip214: 2. Perhaps you should warn about the risk of :USE-ing packages other than the CL package.
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<ck_>
this particular use case read to me like using a package purely as a debugging environment, shortening the names you see.
<beach>
Oh, I didn't check the use case very well. Sorry.
<flip214>
beach: you're right, 2 is important. And I don't think this is _for_ debugging, only that doing it wrong _causes_ debugging ;/
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<beach>
Sounds plausible.
<ck_>
It's actually me who misread it -- in my mind it said "when entering the debugger" instead of "without entering the debugger"
<ck_>
sorry about that
<beach>
ck_: Maybe you are turning dyslexic, just like I am?
<phoe>
morning
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<ck_>
beach: maybe. There are worse fates.
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<beach>
Hey phoe.
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<beach>
ck_: Yes, I agree. It is possible to compensate a lot with spell checkers and abbrev processors.
<beach>
But things take longer. I get warnings about undefined functions and variables, but I can't tell that I misspelled the names.
<flip214>
one of my favourite spelling tricks (reviewing books) is to get a count of used words.... everything written only once is suspect, and twice needs a clear look as well
<beach>
Clever.
<ck_>
yes, that's a nice move. Also good for a histogram of non-alphanumeric characters, telling you whether some things are unbalanced
<flip214>
you think so? Thanks. I thought that's common.
<flip214>
but as I'm reviewing books and papers more or less regularly I might have automated a few bits more than other people, yeah.
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<ralt>
I find :USE pretty useful when using package-inferred-systems, for other internal packages
<ralt>
for external systems I always use `(:import-from :other-package #:sym1 #:sym2)` though.
<beach>
Another reason not to use package-inferred systems.
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<ralt>
I go even further: I use wild-package-inferred-systems :)
<ralt>
my .asd file has `:depends-on (("mysystem/*"))`
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<ldbeth>
godd evening
<ldbeth>
is there a alogrithm find n highest rating elements given a list and a rating function?
<jmercouris>
might as well use a bubble sort if partial sorting is acceptable :-D
<jmercouris>
just in case that wasn't clear, it was a joke
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<jackdaniel>
Xach: would you find reasonable adding a system to ql that has only static files (namely ttf fonts + license)?
<jackdaniel>
context: I want to provide for McCLIM default fonts, but I don't want to clobber the repository
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<_death>
wouldn't it have an .asd file, therefore lisp? :)
* edgar-rft
starts writing .asd files for all his ttf fonts right now...
<_death>
not for your music and video collections?
<jackdaniel>
it would! that's the point :)
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<edgar-rft>
next task would be writing bug reports to the maintainers of ttf fonts for missing .asd files
<_death>
btw jackdaniel I recently wrote some small patches to mcclim.. for some of them it's clear to me that more extensives changes are required if it's not half-arsed.. but maybe you'd like to check them out?
<jackdaniel>
_death: sure
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<jackdaniel>
send a pull request with a header `draft: ' if they are not complete
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<_death>
well, they are a bunch of changes that could likely be split to multiple pull requests
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<jackdaniel>
that's fine too
<jackdaniel>
(but if they are like 5-line changes, I'd rather have them as separate commits in a single pr)
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<_death>
ok, I'll change have a single PR.. also, it seems a text editor pane with drei lisp syntax is extremely slow for some reason, even for <20 lines of simple code?
<_death>
jackdaniel: pull request done
<jackdaniel>
thanks
<jackdaniel>
I'm currently busy because I'm rewriting the renderer for clx backend (to default to xrender and for double buffering)
<jackdaniel>
so I may not look at it immedietely
<_death>
sure, I'm just playing around
<edgar-rft>
Totally offtopic, but at a radio station here a guy from the local computer club does audio editing with sox and makefiles (no joke), why not using asdf for audio editing? If someone's seriously interested, I'm on #lispcafe, too.
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<Xach>
jackdaniel: yes - but it would be nice if 1) it was not too large and 2) it did not change much (new versions with big changes could be new projects?)
<jackdaniel>
Xach: assuming i.e dejavu, it is 12MB, it probably wouldn't change at all (unless new version of said fonts is published)
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<Xach>
jackdaniel: i think that is entirely fine and good
<Xach>
jackdaniel: i wanted to do something similar so i'm glad someone else is!
<Xach>
i wanted to have some guaranteed fonts visible for vecto toys
<jackdaniel>
great, thanks for the feedback. I'll let you know when I have the system (ditto, I need to finish something first)
<Xach>
jackdaniel: might be nice to have a way other than system-relative-pathname to find the files
<jackdaniel>
I'm more worried about compilation at run time, but I suppose that some data could be gathered and compilation could be batched when the user calls compile-foo
<jackdaniel>
I did not think this through yet
<beach>
Unrelated to generic-dispatch?
<beach>
Or, are you talking about creating discriminating function using the compiler?
<jackdaniel>
yes, about that
<beach>
I see.
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<beach>
fangyrn: Do you feel comfortable attacking a problem like generic dispatch?
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<jackdaniel>
ah, I've got excited for nothing, it is a server; I was hoping for a new client library
<jackdaniel>
still cool though
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<jeosol>
beach: Thanks for the link of the paper- will read. My browser logged me out for some reason
<beach>
I noticed. :)
<beach>
I thought I said something inappropriate. :)
<beach>
jeosol: Executive summary: Common Lisp can have faster function-calls than C++. :)
<jeosol>
oh no, not all, oh not at all
<beach>
jeosol: I also said "How about yourself?"
<jeosol>
Thanks for the summary. That's something I could use since I do many optimizations runs with thousands of calls
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<jeosol>
beach: I am doing well
<jeosol>
just saw that, had to got to the irc-logs to see if you message while I was out
<jeosol>
I probably should just use emacs, my chrome acts weird once in a while
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<beach>
What project are you working on?
<jeosol>
I was actually thinking of scheduling a talk with phoe, once I clear current loads.
<beach>
You mean an online Lisp meeting thing?
<jeosol>
Basically, most of my application is in the optimization space (and some machine learning for function approximation).
<jeosol>
yeah, online lisp meeting, when I get some things cleared out.
<beach>
That sounds good.
<jeosol>
One of the application examples, is meta-optimization - optimizing and optimizer. This is the application I said does lots of calls. I am looking at improving choice of data structures, etc, to squeeze out performance. Though in other practical applications, I am limited by expensive call to a third-party application that can take several minutes
<jeosol>
per call.
<beach>
What kind of "optimization" are we talking about here?
<jeosol>
sorry that was vague: it's the stochastic kind, evoluationary algorithms, e.g,. genetic algorithms, and the swarm algorithms, e.g., particle swarm optimization
<beach>
Ah, OK.
<jeosol>
They are not very efficient hence the need to combine with some statistical function approximators to save function calls
<beach>
I see.
<jeosol>
Perhaps I could also do an ELS paper. I tried to do one last year and travel but covid hit and disrupted plans
<beach>
Sure. But you don't get to travel this time either.
<jeosol>
I think that's fine. I'd like to contribute a paper
<beach>
Please do!
<jeosol>
beach: also regarding your linked paper, off the top of my head, faster calls than C++ have significant implications - for one, having faster numeric type applications. Every time I have to deal with python version issues when I reach for one of the numeric libraries
<jeosol>
beach: I worked on a draft last year, I'd finish and submit. I just got the code I was working on to a great place and it's more stable, thanks to hints from you and the other guys here
<beach>
I see. I do specifically mention full-word floats and full-word integers.
<beach>
Oh, so that will be no effort at all. :)
<jeosol>
I'd go through it in detail tonight
<jeosol>
beach: what do you mean by "no effort at all."
<beach>
If the paper is already written, you just need to submit it. That's not fair! :)
<jeosol>
Haha, I guess by draft, I overstated things a bit; it's not completed. I have seen papers with code snippets so I was thinking may be I needed to include a few (albeit simplified versions)
<beach>
You have a few months as I recall.
<jeosol>
I'd check the deadline and work to complete it. At least the code runs stable and I can run it in docker from base container
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<puchacz>
hello, ECL is mostly up and running, but I was getting a strange crash before: "Internal error: Detected write access to the environment while interrupts were disabled. Usually this is caused by a missing call to ecl_enable_interrupts." - it looked as if it was related to an ironclad function being unsuccessfully injected into a hunchentoot thread
<puchacz>
- I got debugger with it in Emacs few times.
<puchacz>
does it look familiar to anybody please?
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<puchacz>
got this error in emacs again, it is trying to inject (make-prng :os) from ironclad, and the error is "Cannot interrupt the inactive process #<process hunchentoot-worker-127.0.0.1:48494 0x55760597b480>"
<puchacz>
this form is automatically added to bt:*default-special-bindings* in ironclad, but I don't know what exactly is going on
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<jackdaniel>
it looks as if you are trying to do something in a thread that is not started (i.e already ended)
<puchacz>
jackdaniel - if it was me doing it, it would be easy :)
<puchacz>
trying to recompile now with (pushnew '(*prng* . (make-prng :os)) bt:*default-special-bindings* :test #'equal) commented out
<puchacz>
I can imagine it is some sort of ironclad improved random seed generator, but I don't understand why it is trying to interrupt a thread
<jackdaniel>
what ecl version do you use?
<jackdaniel>
after the last release there were a few fixes for interrupts
<puchacz>
"20.4.24-UNKNOWN"
<puchacz>
I downloaded from your site, not git
<jackdaniel>
then you may try building git version to see if it works
<puchacz>
ok, will do - thanks :)
<jackdaniel>
sure, if it still fails, please try to narrow the test case and submit an issue
<puchacz>
ok:)
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<puchacz>
is it possible to globally restrict compiler policy? e.g. sbcl has (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 3) that overrides all local declaims, proclaims etc.
<puchacz>
(in ECL I mean)
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<jackdaniel>
ecl doesn't have such feature yet
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<puchacz>
ok
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<puchacz>
jackdaniel - sorry, I did not pinpoint it, but I realised that ironclad has nothing to do with the issue - I just saw the binding at the bottom stack frame of a thread, because bordeaux-threads was binding these specials as requested by ironclad. nothing to do with interrupting.
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<puchacz>
but I think the original problem with interrupting non started thread is gone
<jackdaniel>
with a version from git?
<jackdaniel>
or you have fixed something?
<jackdaniel>
puchacz: ^
<puchacz>
with a version from git, I think I never saw this "Cannot interrupt inactive" anymore
<puchacz>
well, I am certain
<jackdaniel>
cool, sounds like a progress :) good night \o
<puchacz>
thanks, and good night :)
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<puchacz>
I will play with it next weekend, there are (sparse!) application level incompatibilities, e.g. something deep inside babel crashes this in ECL (puri:parse-uri