<ozzloy>
how do i read a form from user input and use that as a key in a hashtable?
<Xach>
ozzloy: do not put a ' in front of the user input.
<ozzloy>
really?
<Xach>
ozzloy: '(is_a_dog rover) reads as (QUOTE (IS_A_DOG ROVER)) which is not a key in the table.
<Xach>
but (is_a_dog rover) reads as (IS_A_DOG ROVER), which is.
<Xach>
ozzloy: in the REPL, the key difference is the E step - evaluation. (QUOTE (IS_A_DOG ROVER)) evaluates to a key, but is not a key before evaluation.
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<ozzloy>
makes sense
<ozzloy>
read doesn't e
<ozzloy>
it just reads
<Xach>
yep
<ozzloy>
i am new to common lisp
<Xach>
happy to help if i can
<ozzloy>
also to reading forms at runtime from the user
<Xach>
I was going to guess you were reading strings and not using a hash-table test that works with strings
<Xach>
that's an easy one to trip up on, too
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<dbotton>
Xach what is clarissa-oakes?
<dbotton>
Btw worked great, just added working save as and open dialogs to my desktop abstraction for clog
<Xach>
dbotton: it is a very roundabout reference to the fact that the 15th Aubrey/Maturin novel was published as "The Truelove" in the USA but "Clarissa Oakes" elsewhere.
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<mfiano>
Hey Xach
<mfiano>
I managed to figure out that defstruct issue. Just a misunderstanding of the HyperSpec
<Xach>
mfiano: time to blog about it?
<dbotton>
Ah, never ready the series. Worth while?
<mfiano>
"If :conc-name is nil or no argument is supplied, then no prefix is used; then the names of the reader functions are the same as the slot names."
<Xach>
dbotton: i enjoy it a lot, i like old timey boat things and it is certainly that
<mfiano>
Whenever I see "name" I read that as symbol-name, not symbol. So you effectively redefine a function in another package where :include'ing a struct in another package with :conc-name of NIL. The solution is to use :conc-name "" or ||
<dbotton>
Xach, I'll add it to me list. thanks
<Xach>
mfiano: ah!
<Xach>
mfiano: it occurred to me last night that i usually see "" for empty conc-names but i thought NIL was just another way to say it. i should have dug harder.
* Xach
was too tired from thinking up nautical novel crossover lisp puns
<mfiano>
NIL is special cased to mean something else entirely. I learned that the hard way after several hours of wtf
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<mfiano>
Finds it scary that defstruct has semantics for monkey patching things not in its own package though
<ozzloy>
thanks Xach
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<Xach>
ozzloy: works as expected now?
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<dbotton>
I spent more time than expected on the desktop deal. I keep delaying the database stuff I plan next
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<ozzloy>
Xach, sure does!
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<asarch>
One very very stupid question: I do a query in a PostgreSQL and its result is parsed and stored with (push ... stored-elements)
<asarch>
Then, from a POST message from a HTML from I get the list of new elements selected and also stored with (push ... selected-elements)
<asarch>
So, stored-elements is (1 5 3) and selected-elements is (9 8 6 4 3 2).
<asarch>
If I do (set-difference stored-elements selected-elements) I get (3 5 1) and if I do vice versa (set-difference selected-elements stored-elements) I get (2 3 4 6 8 9)
<asarch>
Why?
<asarch>
However, if I do (set-difference '(1 5 3) '(9 8 6 4 3 2)) in SBCL REPL I get (5 1) and if I do vice versa (set-difference '(9 8 6 4 3 2) '(1 5 3)) I get (2 4 6 8 9)
<beach>
Yes, you have 3 in common, so it should be excluded in both cases.
<asarch>
What's wrong? :-(
<beach>
You probably have the wrong idea of the contents of those two sets.
<beach>
Do you really have sets of integers?
<asarch>
Should I use (parse-int ...) to store every element in the list?
<asarch>
I don't know. Let me see..
<beach>
Well, that is what you claimed. I just wanted you to confirm.
<asarch>
"The value 3 is not of type STRING when binding STRING"
<asarch>
It seems it is already an integer
<beach>
Then you have a buggy Common Lisp implementation.
<beach>
... which I don't believe, so there is something wrong with your description of the situation.
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<asarch>
"This is SBCL 2.1.1-1.1-suse, an implementation of ANSI Common Lisp."
<asarch>
This is the part of a web application to store the list of animes
<asarch>
Every anime has a name and a url to watch it
<beach>
I don't know what an anime is, but you said they are lists of integers.
<asarch>
This part is where you add genres to the anime: Hentai, Ecchi, Romance, Adventure, Gore, etc
<beach>
Look, you said that you have two lists of integers, and the calculation of the set difference is wrong.
<beach>
Why are you now talking about other kinds of objects?
<asarch>
Every genre is stored in a PostgreSQL table so using a n-to-n relation you can set the genres for a specific anime
<beach>
I give up.
<asarch>
*relationship
<asarch>
The 'stored-elements' represent all the genres selected for a specific anime
<asarch>
And 'selected-element' represents when you want to change list of all those genres of the anime
<beach>
Let me try this again. Is the value of stored-elements a list of integers?
<Nilby>
maybe selected-elements is nil?
<asarch>
beach, yes. All the genres are stored by its numerical representation
<asarch>
Nilby, no, it isn't because (format t "selected-elements: ~a~%" selected-elements) gives (9 8 6 4 3 2)
<asarch>
So, I actually have both lists
<beach>
Don't use ~a. It hides things.
<beach>
asarch: Then you must be using a different Common Lisp implementation for your first experiment, and your second one. And the first one is buggy.
<asarch>
What should I use instead ~a?
<beach>
~s
<beach>
Compare (format t "~a" "(1 2 3)") and (format t "~a" '(1 2 3))
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<beach>
carkh: Good to know.
<carkh>
but i have a programming in the large question of my own
<carkh>
there was no quicklisp back when i learned CL
<carkh>
and it's a very nice thing to have, it really makes it easier to get started
<carkh>
but how does one go about ensuring build reproducatbility
<carkh>
in the java maven, or maybe npm sense
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<carkh>
i mean, how to pin libs versions for a project
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<carkh>
also looks like the correct spelling is "reproducibility" not a native speaker
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<red-dot>
Hola everyone.
<red-dot>
Does anyone know if uiop:define-package has the ability to exclude symbols? Or a workaround?
<red-dot>
If it does, I'm not seeing it.
<red-dot>
I'm trying to paper over about 10 packages into a unified interface, most of which I control, but not all, so it's managable.
<red-dot>
There's conduit, and defpackage-plus that seem like they'll do the trick, but I'm hoping I can bend UIOP to the task.
<holycow>
hey all. searching on freenode just shows #lisp, #lispgames and #lispcafe ... isn't there a chan for asking noob lisp questions?
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<aeth>
holycow: #clschool
<holycow>
oh!
<holycow>
thank you
<aeth>
it used to be #clnoobs but there were no ops when Freenode was hit with the spam attacks a while back so that channel is effectively abandoned
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<aeth>
if "noob lisp" was referring to that channel and not just a coincidence
<holycow>
total coinkydink
<aeth>
cool coincidence, then
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<holycow>
heh i'm actually spending time trying to use cl so it's time to start asking dumb questions. that was the channel i was looking for, people here have mentioned it over the years.
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<red-dot>
If anyone is following, it looks like defpackage-plus is a bit fragile when it comes to redefining packages (but so is cl:defpackage). That said, it does seem to work well a use case like this. Not all that popular though. A github search only turned up two pages of hits for it in asd files.
<red-dot>
no package-local-nicknames though...
<red-dot>
Opps, it does have it.
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<Nilby>
I get by with plain old defpackage for about 300 packages. It ain't much, but it's honest work.
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<red-dot>
300 packages? That's a lot of symbols to type out and manage, or do you do it programatically? I thought about that, but even programatically like :use-reexport does is going to require managing the exceptions individually. That's why I'm hoping for an equivalent for :use-reexport :foo-package :except :symbol-a :symbol-b, or something like that.
<red-dot>
I suppose that fact that defpackage-plus and conduit exist suggests that uiop isn't able to do this in any easy way.
<red-dot>
My hope in posting here was that there was/is a magic uiop incantation that works to the same effect
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<Nilby>
Most of hard work is figurin' what the old code should say. I have my goodold donkey emacs haul them symbols on up there in the package for me.
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<Nilby>
I usually don't re-export, and only export if I really need to. But probably nobody should take advice from a crazy guy with all this twisted junk living in a howl's moving castle of code. Proper old Sbeecil gives me some trouble sometimes about package variance, but I just give 'em a few restarts, handlers, muffles and whatnot.
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<holycow>
does anyone know if roswell delete packagename actually works/
<holycow>
i can do roswell isntall githubaccount/packagename but roswell delete githubaccount/packagename says package not isntalled when i can see it diretly in the .roswell directory
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<zdm>
kreyren1: Never going to touch it because I'm petty and don't like C-syntax in my s-expressions
<kreyren1>
o.o
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<beach>
kreyren1: Please don't post links without also giving a description of what the potential reader should expect.
<kreyren1>
> Orion lang is a lispy programming language that is strongly and statically typed. -
<kreyren1>
i assume that people have embeds x.x
<beach>
That doesn't sound very "lispy".
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<beach>
Then, there is no widespread agreement as to what "Lisp" or "Lispy" is, and for some reason, we regularly see people here who desperately want their new home-brew language to be "a Lisp".
<beach>
Either way, #lisp is not for general "Lisp" languages, but for Common Lisp.
<ecraven>
there's ##lisp for "about lisp"
<beach>
Right.
<beach>
I never think of recommending it, because I imagine it wold be full of fruitless discussion about what languages might be "Lisp"s.
<ecraven>
;) I've asked a bunch of questions relating to old lisps (Interlisp in that case), it has been useful to me ;)
<beach>
Oh, right. That would be interesting.
<ecraven>
jcowan kindly pointed me to interlisp.org, and I fell down that rabbit hole ;)
<ecraven>
might be interesting to find out how good XCL is at actual CL compatibility
<beach>
Heh, I can think of worse rabbit holes to fall into.
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<zdm>
ecraven: thank you for providing me with the rabbit hole as well, interesting
<ecraven>
zdm: I'm just a complete beginner at Medley myself, but feel free to ask anything you're interested in (though maybe in ##lisp ;)
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<theothornhill>
So my boss wants to have a lightning talk on lisp in a local conference. I've got 10 minutes - what could be some interesting things to show during that time? I was thinking about making a small webapp using hunchentoot and the repl, but not sure really how interesting that is.
<loke[m]>
It can be very interesting.
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<loke[m]>
I did such a presentation, but it was about 1 hour. The most popular part was me showing how I can recompile a function and the web application changes behaviour on the fly without having to redeploy or anything like that.
<ecraven>
^ that's probably the interesting part, having a SLIME repl open and inspecting and changing things without needing to redeploy
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<jackdaniel>
theothornhill: test interactively a C library via repl (and ffi)
<theothornhill>
I'll just have to scope it down really hard, though
<jackdaniel>
i.e call a function, introspect a result etc
<theothornhill>
jackdaniel: Yeah, I could do that!
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<carkh>
set a break inside a handler, correct a bug while the page is rendering
<heisig>
theothornhill: Yes, show them the interactivity. Like viewing Lisp and C data structures with Clouseau, even while they are being mutated.
<theothornhill>
heisig: That would be really cool, but I'd think people would scoff a little at that, given that C# rules the world here.
<jackdaniel>
and tell them, that lisp is the best thing since sliced bread, however a sliced bread is not known for being especially good for programming
<theothornhill>
Hah :P
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<theothornhill>
I think maybe the hunchentoot path is the way to go, given that's closer to our domain. I just need to find a good case
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<Cthulhux>
aren't there better servers than hunchentoot now?
<jackdaniel>
Cthulhux: the word "better" creates a false impression, that quality is a 1-dimensional metric
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<jackdaniel>
there are metrics like speed, convenience, feature-richness, community knowledge base and probably more and each seems to be quite orthogonal quality
<jackdaniel>
i.e woo server claims to be much faster, aserve is (I think) more mature etc
<Cthulhux>
hunchentoot is probably very much mature, but speed and scalability *are* important
<loke[m]>
Cthulhux: for something like 99% of uses of webservers, speed and scalability is not important.
<jackdaniel>
they are important for particular use cases, when you make a home web server to serve photos for your family, then you don't need a virtual machine behind cubernetes sitting on top of a cluster of load balancers to gcp
<loke[m]>
And the realtime chat application I wrote using Hunchntoot handled a few thousands parallel users, with something like 250 messages per second without problem.
<loke[m]>
Cthulhux: I'd say the number of sites that needs more than that is actually rather few.
<jackdaniel>
also, as loke[m] noted, speed and scalability are not binary values
<loke[m]>
(and if they do, it's easy enough to scale horizontally)
<jackdaniel>
that reminds me (optimize (speed 3) (debug 0) (safety 0)) because speed *matters* ;-) of course it is bullshit, you get 0 speed when your program reaches a core dump
<loke[m]>
jackdaniel: My point was that even the worst webserver can handle that use case without the need to use Google-level scalability technologies.
<jackdaniel>
loke[m]: yes, I think I've got that
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<ecraven>
there, you see, speed is not binary, it's quaternary!
<edgar-rft>
...and don't forget that the fastest programs are those who don't even start
<ck_>
a whole new context to the tortoise and the hare
<edgar-rft>
...and the second-fastest are those who instantly dump core
<heisig>
...and the most efficient ones are those that are never written.
<flip214>
I can make ALL programs that efficient via "ulimit -d 4"
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<flip214>
Cthulhux: use hunchentoot-quux, and enjoy > 6000 requests per second per core.
<flip214>
depending on what you do in the easy-handler, of course.
<edgar-rft>
if you're concerned with efficiency then it's better to never switch on the computer and stop wasting all that electric energy
<theothornhill>
But does it have any issues with speed, though? Couldn't that be fixed, in that case?
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<jackdaniel>
theothornhill: the thing is that hunchentoot is not slow in any obvious way
<jackdaniel>
(the only "slowness" metric I can think of is that there are faster web servers :)
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<flip214>
theothornhill: I'm fine with hunchentoot-quux - this pre-allocates a number of threads, and on 4 cores I get >25000 rq/sec (for short compute times, of course - just a HMAC).
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<Josh_2>
'ello
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<theothornhill>
jackdaniel: That's what I thought
<theothornhill>
flip214: That's about 25k times more requests per second that I need for this use case :P
<jackdaniel>
if you are going to make 1 request / second then you should use a metronome
<theothornhill>
hehe, right now I just need it to show some iterative development, so more like 1 request per 3-4 minute :P
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<yottabyte>
I can do something like (drakma:http-request url :additional-headers (list (cons "Authorization" (concatenate 'string "Bearer " (get-bearer-token))))) to use bearer authorization in drakma, but I can't figure out how to set the same headers in dexador
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<_death>
it has a :basic-auth parameter.. in general, you can use :headers
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<yottabyte>
I'm making this request with drakma: https://cloud.google.com/storage/docs/downloading-objects and it's giving me a flexi-stream, and I want to do like file-length on it and then eventually write it to disk. basically I want to know how to work with this object
<yottabyte>
I tried (dex:get *url* :headers '(("Authorization" . (concatenate 'string "Bearer " (get-bearer-token))))) and that didn't work for me. I almost have the same thing for drakma which worked. so I know my get-bearer-token function works
<yottabyte>
the error response gives me "message": "Invalid Credentials",
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<Xach>
yottabyte: if you used exactly that, it can't work - the quote inhibits evaluation.
<Josh_2>
Finally started making progress with CFFI
<yottabyte>
I used exactly that
<Josh_2>
yottabyte: I had that issue at one point, lemme check my version
<svetlyak40wt>
yottabyte: Use `(("Authorization" . ,(concatenate 'string "Bearer " (get-bearer-token)))))
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<Josh_2>
^
<Xach>
yottabyte: `(("Authorization" . (concatenate 'string "Bearer " ,(get-bearer-token))) might work better. Or (list (cons "Authoriization" (format nil "Bearer ~A" (get-bearer-token))) or something
<Josh_2>
thats how I have mine
<Xach>
(spelled properly of course)
<Josh_2>
except I used format not concatenate
<mfiano>
Xach: unquote the wrong form?
<yottabyte>
wow, that worked. why is that? also I had to change my ' to ` because it said comma not in back quote
<Xach>
yes
<Xach>
yottabyte: because that's how lisp works
<yottabyte>
because in drakma I had exactly (drakma:http-request *url* :additional-headers '(("Authorization" . (concatenate 'string "Bearer " (get-bearer-token))))) and this worked
<yottabyte>
I thought '(("Authorization" . (concatenate 'string "Bearer " (get-bearer-token)))) was equivalent to (list ("Authorization" . (concatenate 'string "Bearer " (get-bearer-token))))
<Xach>
No.
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<yottabyte>
why did the drakma call work?
<beach>
yottabyte: Why are you trying to do such complex stuff if you don't know the basic evaluation rule of Common Lisp? I would do something simpler, like exercises in a book on programming in Common Lisp.
<yottabyte>
sjl: I'm getting responses which make sense but alas
<yottabyte>
beach: I'm just trying to learn through a practical application. but you're right. I might be in over my head
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<beach>
yottabyte: It is not that it's over your head. It's that it can become quite a tedious exercise, with your being lost many many times on trivial stuff and they ask for help here.
<sjl>
The docs seem to imply that the values in the additional-headers alist must be strings or function designators, but looking at the code it looks like it'll take anything and renders it with format's ~A, which is a little confusing.
<sjl>
But yeah. Using a single quote means your alist had a single element, with the key "Authorization" and the value being a list of four elements. Drakma turned that list into a string and sent it as the header.
<sjl>
And unless you have a *very* interesting session token generator, the string "(concatenate 'string "Bearer " (get-bearer-token))" is unlikely to be a valid session token.
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<lambdanon>
Hi, I'm running into trouble when quickloading :cl-gtk2-gtk
<lambdanon>
Nvm found the issue on their github and apparently cl-gtk2 is no longer maintained
<beach>
Try McCLIM instead.
<beach>
It is quite well maintained, and it installs right away.
<lambdanon>
Looks pretty good, I'll check it out
<beach>
There are some interesting tools that use it too, like Clouseau, the inspector, which is way more competent than (say) the SLIME inspector.
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<lambdanon>
To be fair, I'm only making tetris as a test project, so I might not even need a fully functional GUI framework, just something that can draw squares
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<beach>
Sounds like fun.
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<lambdanon>
Whenever I'm making projects, and I want to use-package, I always have to specify whether I keep-old or take-new. Is there a way of automatically resolving this conflict?
<beach>
I strongly suggest you :USE only the Common Lisp package, and use explicit package prefixes (possibly with a package-local nickname) for all other symbols from other packages.
<lambdanon>
It'd be nice if I could do the common lisp equivalent of Python's "from module import X Y Z..."
<beach>
You can, but I don't recommend it.
<beach>
It is much more explicit to the person reading your code to know from which package a symbol originates.
<lambdanon>
I see. I assume this applies even to packages that everyone uses, like Alexandria?
<beach>
Yes, certainly packages like that, because they can acquire new exported symbols over time, and then your code will break.
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<jmercouris>
I'm having a problem conceptualizing something
<jmercouris>
we have a `define-configuration` macro
<lambdanon>
beach: Thanks for the pointers, I'm going to check out their guided tour now
<jmercouris>
what I would like to do within this macro is read the symbols as if they are in a different package
<jmercouris>
is that possible?
<beach>
lambdanon: Good luck. Go to #clim for questions
<beach>
jmercouris: No, the symbol are read before the macro does its work.
<jmercouris>
so I would need a reader macro?
<jmercouris>
or would that not even work?
<beach>
Hard to say, since I don't know what you want to do.
<jmercouris>
let me hsow
<jmercouris>
s/hsow/show
<beach>
Most of the time when people think they need something like that, it is the wrong solution to their problem.
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<jmercouris>
so I've provided an example of our macro
<jmercouris>
I would like to somehow make the illegal form, legal
<Bike>
oh, so like defstruct.
<Bike>
you don't need a reader macro for that, but it's kind of unhygenic usually.
<jmercouris>
what does it mean to be unheigenic?
<Bike>
ugly.
<Bike>
is the idea that this define-configuration form is something the user writes in a config file, referring to nyxt/web-mode:web-mode which is part of your system?
<jmercouris>
Bike: that's correct, yes
<jmercouris>
and this define-configuration form changes the initforms of slots within the web-mode class
<jmercouris>
it is to simply configuration for users
<Bike>
right.
<Bike>
So could you for example define a nyxt-user (or something) package, that USEs nyxt/web-mode, that the config file is read in?
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<jmercouris>
we have defined such a class
<jmercouris>
s/class/package
<Bike>
then you could just write (define-configuration web-mode ((hints-alphabet "asdf")))
<jmercouris>
hm, maybe that is the solution, indeed
<Bike>
and it would be all the right symbols, without further work on your part
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<Bike>
if that doesn't work out, the alternative is basically to have the macroexpander construct the symbols you want
<Bike>
something along the lines of (intern (symbol-name user-provided-slot-name) "NYXT/WEB-MODE")
<jmercouris>
yeah, I thought about doing that within the define-configuraiton macro
<jmercouris>
but then I was thinking, I will have to make it smart, if the user DOES prefix the symbol correctly..
<jmercouris>
then I will have to change its behavior
<Bike>
The problem with that is that any package the user does specify is ove- yeah, you got it.
<jmercouris>
I think I will try USE'ing
<jmercouris>
it never really occurs to me to USE packages
<jmercouris>
because of the negativity associated with this keyword
<Bike>
mm, well, for whatever-user packages it's pretty okay
<Bike>
the difficulty comes when the api is changed, but in this case you control both ends, so it's not as much of a problem
<jmercouris>
yes
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<jmercouris>
thanks for the advice
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<jmercouris>
I guess we also have to be careful of similarly named modes in two different packages
<jmercouris>
but we can prevent that
<Bike>
no prob
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