<GitHub3> [extras-m1] yizhangsh pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/mQIbcZ
<GitHub3> [extras-m1/master] add a new design - Yi Zhang
<GitHub50> [flickernoise] xiangfu pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/meIHGs
<GitHub50> [flickernoise/master] delete useless extern _res, already include in resolv.h - Xiangfu Liu
<wolfspraul> ximian: ok I'm testing the update-hang with 07-01 a bit more
<wolfspraul> oops, I meant xiangfu  :-)
<wolfspraul> xiangfu suggested that I remove the keyboard, and indeed without keyboard it boots into simple mode
<wolfspraul> my keyboard is a silicone keyboard and lying here a bit rolled up, maybe a key is pressed permanently. I will now put it flat and reboot again
<xiangfu> the silicone keyboard?
<wolfspraul> xiangfu: something must have changed on that end between 05-09 and 07-01, because I definitely booted the exact same m1 (with kbd inserted) with 05-09 and it worked fine
<wolfspraul> ahh. now that I unrolled the keyboard, it boots into render mode
<wolfspraul> ok I will now try to press a key permanently when booting
<wolfspraul> he, now the bug is gone, cannot reproduce anymore even if I keep keys pressed down
<wolfspraul> xiangfu: so maybe I just keep an eye on it, but for now we can assume this issue to be closed?
<wolfspraul> I had my silicone keyboard connected while it was in a somewhat contorted position, so it may have sent unusual signals to the m1
<xiangfu> yes. we can close the issue.
<wolfspraul> after unplugging and replugging the problem was still there, but after putting the keyboard down flat it went away and now I cannot get it back
<wolfspraul> alright then, I keep an eye on it
<kristianpaul> he, avalon bus looks simpler than wishobne, shame is from altera
<GitHub106> [extras-m1] yizhangsh pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/lzgtJY
<GitHub106> [extras-m1/master] add new m1 transparent file - Yi Zhang
<GitHub47> [extras-m1] yizhangsh pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/mznc1c
<GitHub47> [extras-m1/master] locked die cutting outline - Yi Zhang
<GitHub88> [extras-m1] shiyele pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kA5EOq
<GitHub88> [extras-m1/master] added v8 case from roh - Wolfgang Spraul
<lekernel> -                       return -1;
<lekernel> +                       ret -1;
<lekernel> mh?
<xiangfu> ouch, my mistake, gcc not give me warning .
<xiangfu> sent out new one
<lekernel> +       s = strchr(name, '/');
<lekernel> +       *s = '\0';
<lekernel> what if strchr returns NULL?
<lekernel> (in ycb_mknod)
<aeris> Ralala
<wpwrak> lekernel: do you get a segfault then ?
<larsc> on lm32 probably not
<lekernel> when properly configured, which I have had no time for yet, it can
<wpwrak> great. that may be very useful for catching bugs that now just cause some silent misbehaviour.
<xiangfu> so better add:if(s != NULL) *s = '\0';
<xiangfu>
<lekernel> yeah moment, writing email
<lekernel> wpwrak, qemu should catch those already, and I didn't find prominent ones
<xiangfu> fixed 'iSerial' not working in ftdi_eeprom
<wpwrak> lekernel: ah, good.
<wpwrak> lekernel: by the way, it seems M1 takes quite a while before it displays anything. is there any hope this time could be reduced ? it's always bad when people try to power on and nothing seems to happen.
<lekernel> it's intentional, boot screens are usually unwelcome when used in parties
<lekernel> you can display a splash screen by holding the power button a bit longer
<wpwrak> lekernel: maybe just display a little logo/indicator in a corner ?
<lekernel> (though it's cleared after control is passed to RTEMS... one more of those trivial things I'm tired of fixing)
<wpwrak> lekernel: (tired) just a little more effort. you're almost there ! ;-)
<xiangfu> lekernel: [PATCH v3] on mkdir '/' ...  http://dpaste.com/562776/
<lekernel> path1 is not freed when returning from line 38
<xiangfu> then also line 41 :(
<lekernel> line 41??
<lekernel> for me line 41 is *name = s + 1;
<lekernel> i'm using the dpaste line numbers
<xiangfu> line 47
<lekernel> but line 47 yes
<lekernel> i wonder how many memory leaks are lurking in all this code... unfortunately there's no valgrind for rtems :(
<xiangfu> another one in mknod :(
<GitHub158> [extras-m1] yizhangsh pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/k2COj6
<GitHub158> [extras-m1/master] made changes - Yi Zhang
<xiangfu> lekernel:  http://dpaste.com/562779/ line: 40, 50, 82 add three free()
<lekernel> ok
<lekernel> commit it
<lekernel> have you tested it well?
<xiangfu> yes.
<xiangfu> I think so.
<xiangfu> let me test again
<lekernel> a good test is to transfer some complex filesystem tree over FTP
<lekernel> and then move the root directory of that tree back and forth between the ramdisk and the flash
<xiangfu> oh. yes.
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: the m1 boot time was excellent at the beginning (2-3 seconds)
<wolfspraul> then it started to grow, for all sorts of reasons
<wolfspraul> the final hit was that simple mode (which it normally boots into) will compile all patches before starting rendering
<wolfspraul> there is no caching at all right now
<wolfspraul> so the boot time now is 35 seconds or so
<wolfspraul> that's a fairly high priority, at least on my list, to bring down. the easiest is probably to do some form of simple caching, with a timestamp or so to catch patches that were edited
<wolfspraul> I believe with some simple caching, we can bring it down to 15 seconds or less
<wolfspraul> then maybe everything to about 10 is still long hanging fruits, after that it probably gets harder, but... it was 2-3 seconds at the beginning so there are probably ways to bring it back there, if we prioritize this high enough...
<wolfspraul> the good news is that it seems all fairly easy to bring down, absolutely nothing that is hard should be in the way...
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: sounds good. being able to get quickly into its regular operation would indeed be best. else, some indicator that it has really activated would also help. it was a little odd to hear rejon talk about how it's "instantly on" yet i had seen him boot a number of times before and there was always a long period of uncertainty if the device was even running.
<wolfspraul> yes I know
<wolfspraul> you know how it is
<wolfspraul> over time, boot time seems to know only one direction...
<wolfspraul> every down to 15 or 10 should be fairly easy, everything down to 5 seconds still realistic probably. so there is hope...
<lekernel> timestamp cannot work, there's no rtc
<lekernel> hashing, maybe
<wolfspraul> ah true, sorry
<wolfspraul> you said that already earlier
<wpwrak> lekernel: couldn't you just delete/regenerate the cache when a new patch is downloaded ?
<lekernel> people can edit patches, too
<lekernel> modify files, etc.
<wolfspraul> but my point still stands, we can bring the boot time down to 15 seconds or less with relatively little effort, as it just grew recently, I don't expect particularly hard stuff when bringing it back down
<lekernel> let's ship devices happily booting in 30 seconds _first_
<lekernel> then we see
<wpwrak> lekernel: hm. how about a timestamp composed of boot number and uptime ?
<wolfspraul> lekernel: I think it's already over 30 now, and probably keeps growing as we add patches
<wolfspraul> but yes, I agree. this is not a critical issue right now, but I do keep my eye on it.
<wolfspraul> back when it was booted in 2-3 seconds, that was really cool
<lekernel> there was no gui, no filesystem, no networking, etc.
<wolfspraul> caching of patch compilation alone will bring it back to about 15 seconds
<lekernel> and it froze every time you switched patches (the patch compilation was here to prevent this)
<lekernel> and people _did_ have a bad impression because of that switching delay
<wpwrak> lekernel: the problem (for the user) isn't the boot time per se but the indication whether it is actually starting or not. maybe you can see this from the LEDs. are they a clear enough indication that users will recognize them as such without being told by documentation ?
<lekernel> yes, there is a second LED switching on
<lekernel> that says "ON" ...
<lekernel> so it's a trivial issue, really
<lekernel> i'd rather worry about how the production goes ...
<wpwrak> lekernel: hmm, okay. maybe it's just a documentation problem then ;-)
<wolfspraul> ahh
<wolfspraul> no it's not trivial
<wolfspraul> but we don't need to do it now
<wolfspraul> it's not trivial at all
<wolfspraul> there are few things as important as quick boot time
<wolfspraul> but... a great web update is even far more important
<lekernel> let's see. for now i'm tired of building features only 3-4 people care about. the way over this is getting the run 3 done and promoting it.
<wolfspraul> sure, only 3-4 are active from the rc2 bunch :-)
<wolfspraul> but really, believe me, for end users boot time is crazy important, it's their first impression of the product
<wolfspraul> speed is addictive
<wolfspraul> but I am _NOT_ worried about m1 boot time, at all
<wolfspraul> we can bring it down with a little targeted engineering, at any time later if we have a good update procedure
<lekernel> the update should work now
<lekernel> i spent my weekend on it ...
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: agreed on the boot time. also, rejon is emphasizing the "instant on" quite a bit, so you have to decide whether he should keep on advertizing it or not ?
<wolfspraul> we can advertize it
<wolfspraul> we will bring it back
<wolfspraul> 'instant-on' is almost a must have nowadays, say 5 seconds or so
<wolfspraul> 15 is barely ok, 30 is the total cut-off for consumer products
<wolfspraul> that's how it is, those are not my numbers but expectations of people
<kristianpaul> lekernel: there was no lzma compression for flickernoise binary either ;-)
<lekernel> it's disabled atm
<kristianpaul> but even with gui my M1 as arrived took less than 5 seconds to boot i remenber, was reallt fast
<kristianpaul> ah, ok
<kristianpaul> good :-)
<lekernel> no, it's bad it's so slow
<kristianpaul> 5 seconds still because png loading right?
<kristianpaul> jpg*
<kristianpaul> whatever wallpaper format is.
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: i see the biggest issue in it taking so long before there's a video signal. that's annoying if you're in a setup where you're not sure if things work. that should be particularly bad for a device like the M1, when used by a traveling VJ.
<lekernel> the main things which take time atm
<lekernel> 1) failed dhcp attempts
<lekernel> 2) compilation of patches
<lekernel> for 1) the problem is a) rtems blocks startup until dhcp timeout b) mdio doesn't work (i've filed an issue against that) so there's no way to disable it when ethernet is unplugged
<kristianpaul> about dhcp i could be done before all the gui is up?
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: even a little M1 logo in a corner that shows that it is alive would help a lot
<kristianpaul> s/it/it
<kristianpaul> wpwrak: there was big logo from bios, but i think there was another blank screen issue just after the gui booted i remnber
<kristianpaul> long time since not use flickernoise
<lekernel> kristianpaul, yeah so I'm not motivated to fix that.
<kristianpaul> so, if you even call dhcp after mtk/gui loaded there will be a freeze?
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: lekernel said he didn't want to put a big logo. but it wouldn't have to be a big fancy splash screen. actually something small is better, psychologically, because a big fancy screen suggests that the system is wasting resources on the splash screen instead of working on getting booted.
<lekernel> no, it's bad because everyone sees it
<kristianpaul> wpwrak: sure the problem will be when your small logo dissapier to blank screen for seconds..
<kristianpaul> is not that end user scaring?
<wolfspraul> btw, Sebastien's brochure that I heard very positive feedback for, on page 3 says "ready in seconds" as one of the big bullet points
<wpwrak> lekernel: that's an even worse situation: VJ gets setup while the crowd is already there. a high-pressure situation. then quick feedback whether the video actually works is even more important.
<wolfspraul> "Lightweight" "very low latency" "no computer needed" "ready in seconds"
<wolfspraul> indeed I like those 4 bullet items, they are good
<wpwrak> lekernel: also, do clubs have special projectors that don't helpfully display "NO SIGNAL" or the vendor's logo in that time ?
<lekernel> wpwrak, clubs tend to avoid those projectors for the same reason I avoid the M1 splash screen
<wpwrak> lekernel: good ;-)
<wolfspraul> when you ask people how many seconds "ready in seconds" means (in this context), I'm sure the answer would be 'around 5'
<lekernel> wolfspraul, ok, I got it, right? but we ship the run 3 first.
<wolfspraul> not 200, for example as with the FreeRunner :-)
<lekernel> 30 seconds is still acceptable
<wolfspraul> lekernel: yes, I'm totally relaxed about it
<wolfspraul> you seem to misunderstand me
<wpwrak> lekernel: you could also do something less obvious, e.g., just a frame at the screen edges
<wolfspraul> plus the work into bringing this down is easy, don't worry someone will get it done
<wolfspraul> so I did not complain about this bullet item
<wolfspraul> leave it there
<wolfspraul> same as Jon's 'instant-on'
<wpwrak> lekernel: you're going from a blank screen, so a bit of a build-up would actually seem appropriate :)
<wolfspraul> I am just trying to explain the situation to werner
<wolfspraul> so everybody stay calm. Jon can continue with instant-on, the bullet item is good, and we will get this back down to 10 seconds or so in due time
<wolfspraul> without Sebastien, who has already been doing 1000 things
<wolfspraul> have you seen me bitching about boot time? no :-) I'm just giving the big picture to Werner...
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: i think "ready in seconds" is very good. just that a long "dark" start time matches this badly. but yes, if this gets fixed in time, there's obviously no problem.
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: it can and will be brought down again
<wolfspraul> so those items should stay
<wolfspraul> I make a 'not yet' label and glue it over the brochue, ha :-)
<wolfspraul> brochure
<wolfspraul> "ready in seconds" - NOT YET! :-)
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: (bitchin) yeah, just my observation from watching rejon fight with it. everything else looks very nice and smooth, so this one ugly spot sticks out quite a bit.
<wolfspraul> yes I totally agree with you, but I think you understand the plan now
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: ready in more seconds ;-)
<wolfspraul> first - we are talking about the speed in marketing material already now
<wolfspraul> second - we have more focus on easy update procedure first
<wolfspraul> third - we are confident that we can bring the boot time back down to 15 seconds or less, because we understand the big blocks that only very recently drove it up from 5 seconds
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: by the way, when will you expect to start selling these critters ?
<wpwrak> s/will/do/
<wolfspraul> fourth - Sebastien doesn't need to worry about this at all because afaik the blockers to bring it down are not very tough technically, so I am optimistic xiangfu or others can get it done
<wolfspraul> start selling, maybe in 2-3 weeks?
<wolfspraul> smt is next week
<wolfspraul> remot controls just arrived
<wolfspraul> power supplies still 'in the making'
<wpwrak> very good. several people have inquired when it will sell.
<wolfspraul> labels - I believe print job is almost out or out
<wpwrak> (power supply) does it have an (S) for argentina printed on it ? :)
<lekernel> box?
<wolfspraul> box - job not sent out yet, but I hope in the next few days, we need to settle on a design, maybe some more minor tweaks
<lekernel> yi's design is good btw
<lekernel> just add the creative commons credits near the icons
<wolfspraul> cases - talked to roh earlier today, he still has a lot of work
<wolfspraul> let's hope this week the lasering is done
<wolfspraul> and the buttons
<wolfspraul> yeah, what else
<wolfspraul> that's about it I think
<wolfspraul> so... 2-3 weeks
<wolfspraul> lekernel: which design? (which filename)
<wolfspraul> and what credits do you want there?
<lekernel> and see credits on the brochure where i'm using those icons as well
<wolfspraul> ah ok, yes I see it
<wolfspraul> thanks
<wolfspraul> right now it looks like all of those things like power supplies, box, cases may come in a little late
<wolfspraul> my bad
<wolfspraul> 'a little' means about a week or two later than in a perfect world
<lekernel> wpwrak, about the lamp, it's just that I could not find a better clipart in a timely fashion
<wolfspraul> power supplies - I underestimate the lead-times in that type of category. the PO is out long ago, but... 2 months is nothing in power supply land. oh well, lesson learnt :-)
<wolfspraul> box - bah. design is always slower than I estimate. will also learn.
<lekernel> just add the CC credits and send out for printing
<wolfspraul> cases - well, roh is juggling between different clients, raumfahrtagentur moved, and we added extra jobs like button assembly
<wolfspraul> lekernel: yes correct
<wolfspraul> that's what will happen
<wolfspraul> at least this will give Adam ample time to test the boards, which is good
<wpwrak> lekernel: (lamp) could you just color it ? the lamp as such looks okay. or is this too difficult ?
<wpwrak> (button assembly) i hope roh makes a support for that. should be very easy with the mill - two concentric cylindrical cuts in pretty much any material.
<wolfspraul> that's exactly what he will do
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: good :)
<wolfspraul> but after the move the mill was dysfunctional, I believe until today or so
<wpwrak> ah, that sucks
<wpwrak> the drawback of having a really nice big mill :)
<wolfspraul> it's so strange
<wolfspraul> for cables, lead times is a few days
<wolfspraul> even if you have custom length
<wolfspraul> they seem to always be able to throw in a small job, like 100 cables, very quickly
<wolfspraul> but for power supplies, they live and think in months
<wolfspraul> 2 months, 3 months, etc.
<wolfspraul> strange
<wolfspraul> even though the power supplies are totally standardized as well of course
<wpwrak> wolfspraul: what will you do about the various plug shapes in different countries ?
<wolfspraul> I don't know why that is so, but I learnt it. the power supplies should have been in stock long ago, like the cables. now they come in as one of the last pieces.
<wolfspraul> we will be shipping with small plastic adapters for US/Japan, EU, UK and Australia
<wolfspraul> the rest of the world needs to buy a local adapter
<wolfspraul> and no Argentina (S) either, unfortunately
<wpwrak> will your logistics allow you to remove the power supply before shipping ?
<wolfspraul> oh sure
<wolfspraul> for now yes, no problem
<wpwrak> good. this may save a few people some afternoons at customs.
<wpwrak> what shipping options do you have ? just fedex or also others, e.g., EMS ?
<wolfspraul> haven't really thought about it
<wolfspraul> first fedex only
<wolfspraul> but we are flexible
<wolfspraul> all m1 will be shipped from Adam initially
<wolfspraul> not from the logistics center in Hong Kong
<wolfspraul> that's for later...
<wpwrak> okay. this gives you quite some flexibility.
<kristianpaul> EMS may save some to pay customs but it really take time to deliver..
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: EMS may also be friendlier when it comes to sending power supplies to argentina. EMS goes through the regular postal mail process. so a lot of personal parcels take that route. couriers are considered more for commercial shipments, so they may get pickier treatment.
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: but i haven't done any extensive studies. should send, say, five parcels either way, and see what acceptance rate they have. also couriers shipments don't always get molested. e.g., i once bought some power supplies from digi-key, along with some other electronic components, and didn't have problems.
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: alas, making such a test would be quite expensive ...
<kristianpaul> that remenbers me i need to find something like digikey that uses first class mail
<kristianpaul> so far i never had problems with first class mail from the US, even i had good surprises of deliver times in days and not weeks
<kristianpaul> but yeah, EMS from china is another history i guess, most if you alreayd paid 500usd for a milkymist, why not paid some more dollars for Fedex good delivery :)
<kristianpaul> deal extreme in the other side is odd shipiment, how they could offer tracking for  jsut 1 dolar and at the end it still first class mail, but deliver still take at least 3 weeks..
<kristianpaul> hum, may be a good test for deal extreme will be send one item to argentina
<kristianpaul> s/one/five
<kristianpaul> lekernel: for rc3 there are plans to reach US market for MM1?
<lekernel> maybe
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: EMS from china is quite slow. takes more than a week.
<kristianpaul> wpwrak: more than a week? ha!, xiangu send me some memory cards thatwas a month, also when openmoko send me a memory card replacement for the wikireader
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: there is tracking on regular mail as well. it's just a bit spottier than with the couriers. e.g., when i send out a regular parcel, i can track it all the way in argentina, and sometimes even with the postal system at the other end.
<kristianpaul> s/send/sent
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: (other postal system) e.g., in the US, it worked. in germany, it didn't.
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: i have something like 10 days in my mental notebook. i don't think EMS took more than two weeks TW -> AR. not sure about CN
<kristianpaul> wpwrak: yeah, thats true, here in colombia and i noticed when i call postal office about asking tracking for first class mail,i  can feel/listen from ther voice they know in wich part of the country is but they just dont say it
<kristianpaul> wpwrak: or ie, the mail is on the office, and they intenially delay it to you
<kristianpaul> s/intenially/intentionally
<kristianpaul> wpwrak: yeah TW is other history, i think there is an extra delay just when coming out from CN
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: when you send something with air mail here in argentina, it gets a tracking number. i think that's automatic for all international shipments.
<kristianpaul> but OM was from TW, and took a month as well.. i think for some reason that packages arrive sometimes to venezuela, and thats anoyher week delay..
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: (CN) customs there may be slower, yes
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: (VE->CO) hehe, it's nice that they don't just confiscate it ;-)
<kristianpaul> the open it btw
<wpwrak> *grin*
<kristianpaul> well i just noticed that on a shipment, because there was a label indicating that
<wpwrak> kristianpaul: so make sure you don't ship around any CDs with reggaeton, or they'll keep them ;-)
<kristianpaul> lol
<kristianpaul> better they keep it, i'm no interested on that, have _enought_ with noisy neihgboords !!
<wpwrak> with the M1, you can now fight back with video :)
<kristianpaul> i need a video projetctor
<kristianpaul> but yeah,for halloween and christmas i was thinking to project some animations on of the windows
<kristianpaul> and feed the M1 with the sound land scape coming from street
<kristianpaul> actually i had a crazy idea last time feed m1 from ogg streams, like the ones from locusonus project
<wpwrak> you could make an animated christmas tree :-)
<kristianpaul> actually even !! a guy i met in labsulab he is from france i think and want to make something like locusonus but with raw readings from sensors
<kristianpaul> and at the end he will provide  OSC server, so just a unique OSC source of effects for flickernoise :-)
<kristianpaul> that remenber the question about tweets in FISL mm talk, i think Jon missundertood tweets are just for wall
<kristianpaul> or he see in the future tweetw can also modify ariables for running patches?
<kristianpaul> variables*
<wpwrak> hmm, i didn't notice him say anything incorrect there. ambiguous ? and well, i guess tweets could modify variables. don't sound very difficult :)
<kristianpaul> sure, just they guy who asked seemed to relate twittes with variables than with wall feature i think
<kristianpaul> not incorrect
<kristianpaul> ambiguous, yes i think
<kristianpaul> gah, define and connect 10 wires and 10 registers between 3 modules is something a human should not do!
<mwalle> lekernel: rtems shouldn't jump to DEBA+offset
<lekernel> what to do in case of e.g. divide by zero error, then?
<lekernel> infinite loop in the exception handler?
<mwalle> do a register dump, print sth like "connect debugger" and loop
<mwalle> yes
<mwalle> for all unhandled exceptions
<mwalle> except breakpoint and watchpoint, which always go to DEBA
<GitHub35> [extras-m1] yizhangsh pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/kgj6Ji
<GitHub35> [extras-m1/master] add another box design variation - Yi Zhang
<kristianpaul> lekernel: hmm, yes i think i forgot that there is also (Y) code in L1, so thats not implemented in namuru but it could be as well