03:47 <GitHub96> [flickernoise] xiangfu pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/DZ9wmA

03:47 <GitHub96> [flickernoise/master] simple mode: enable LEFT/RIGHT for previous/ next patch - Xiangfu

12:44 <lekernel> http://fabricatorz.com/2012/03/new-milkymist-action-shots/

13:33 <kristianpaul> yeah, nice video

13:35 <Hodapp> that is cool

13:41 <jonand> hello. Is the milkymist one rc3 pcb stackup available somewhere or do I have to install altium to find out?

13:41 <wolfspraul> we talked about that recently

13:41 <jonand> I'd like to run some SI simulations on the pcb

13:41 <wolfspraul> there is a utility gerbv that allows you a view into the layers

13:42 <jonand> I've viewed the gerbers but there is no stackup drawing in there

13:42 <wolfspraul> what do you mean with stackup drawing?

13:42 <jonand> stackup as in layer and fr4 thickness

13:42 <wolfspraul> that's just a few numbers, right?

13:42 <jonand> stackup example: http://www.polarinstruments.com/products/stackup/Speedstack.html

13:43 <jonand> yes

13:44 <jonand> I could expect the microstrips on the outer layers to be 50ohms until someone corrects me.. :)

13:44 <wolfspraul> too bad Adam is already in a 1.5 day mini vacation / public holiday

13:44 <wolfspraul> I have no Altium either and wouldn't even know where to look

13:45 <wolfspraul> but we'll find this out, definitely

13:47 <jonand> It should be in the pcb manufacturing archive to avoid getting completely different stackups for each order..

13:49 <wpwrak> wolfspraul: if you have the production order sent to the PCB house, that would probably have it

13:57 <wolfspraul> we have no local storage, so it must be somewhere

14:01 <wolfspraul> unfortunately the altium files may be the only place, it's possible that they were sent to the pcb maker and they read the stackup data directly from there?

14:06 <wolfspraul> is the stackup data not in the gerber standard, or just not in our gerber files?

14:06 <wolfspraul> this is a good discovery already :-) (that it's missing...)

14:18 <wpwrak> i think it's usually a text document that is sent along with the order

14:19 <wpwrak> at least the ones i saw this far (not many, though) were of that kind

14:19 <wpwrak> altium may or may not be able to carry this sort of information

14:22 <wpwrak> this looks like a start: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_RC3_PCB_Specification

14:23 <wpwrak> this one, on the other hand, is useless: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/PCB_Fabrication_Technical_Information

14:24 <wpwrak> ah wait, it's a checklist not a spec. okay, then it has some use

14:27 <wpwrak> the rc3 pcb spec looks good, though

14:28 <wpwrak> jonand: does it have enough of the parameters you need ?

18:10 <lekernel> so, visikord "launched" at ces2012 and it sounds familiar. https://www.google.com/search?ix=seb&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ces+2012+visikord

18:11 <lekernel> conclusion: expensive booths and nice demo videos probably won't work for MM, either

18:13 <lekernel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FWROIIrNLs => 665 views ...

18:14 <lekernel> they even have nicer effects (but with more latency)

19:42 <jonand> wpwrak: that will do, thanks

19:54 <wpwrak> yeah, latency kinda sucks :)

19:55 <wpwrak> we really need some video response effects, though

19:56 <lekernel> like the visikord "triggers"? yeah...

19:56 <wpwrak> yup

19:56 <lekernel> what about this target for the next release: triggers + ffmpeg + worst USB bugs fixed?

19:57 <wpwrak> so .. in 2008, people are still remixing "self control". amazing ;-)

23:16 <wolfspraul> wpwrak: [pcb stackup] adam will give us a definitive answer, but he's only back tomorrow (Friday)

23:16 <wolfspraul> today is a public holiday in Taiwan

23:16 <wolfspraul> but it's a really neat little piece of information, I had no idea about 'pcb stackup' :-)

23:17 <wolfspraul> I thought all this must be in the gerbers, but of course we all know the often many-page long checklists when ordering pcbs, so it looks like the gerber format is not really powerful enough in a lot of details

23:22 <wpwrak> naw, gerber is very primitive. it's just the traces. doesn't even have drill information (diameter).

23:23 <wolfspraul> yeah

23:23 <wolfspraul> even so it's so old and widely used, so one would think it can be amended...

23:24 <wpwrak> oh, i'm sure there are many "enhanced" versions of it ;-)

23:24 <wolfspraul> I mean standards

23:25 <wpwrak> hmm, does .doc count ? :)