<lekernel>
hmm... displayport may also be an option. always the same high data rate (so no messy PLL reconfigurations) and directly supported by GTP transceivers, including the modes for 1080p60...
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<lekernel>
and the upper layer protocol doesn't look too much like a kafkaesque mess à la USB
<wpwrak>
"easy to use, well-tested, just works" and "oh, and you can easily flash firmware hacks" somehow don't seem to agree with each other ;)
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<lekernel>
the good news is this isn't our problem, and if we have displayport, then VGA converters (containing the DACs) have already been made (in)famous by Apple
<wpwrak>
heh :)
<Hodapp>
I'm wondering how much DP will catch on.
<wpwrak>
when i see the rate at which they're pumping out new digital video "standards" these days, i feel oddly comfortable with vga ;-)
<Hodapp>
same here.
<lekernel>
yeah but it requires expensive/messy DAC/ADCs
<lekernel>
HDMI or DP is direct routing to FPGA
<Hodapp>
lekernel: Not if you only want... 8 colors!
<lekernel>
?
<wpwrak>
all the mass-market stuff has those ADCs/DACs. and it's still cheap ;-)
<larsc>
wpwrak: but not 1080p!
<Hodapp>
but how fast do those DACs operate?
<lekernel>
HDMI can work at 720p60 and 1080p30 24bpp with the Spartan-6 SERDES
<lekernel>
and DP 1080p60 24bpp and above with the Spartan-6 GTP
<lekernel>
Hodapp: can't see where this "8 colors" statement comes from
<Hodapp>
lekernel: well, you have R, G, B, and on an FPGA you could set them to either low or high if you're driving them directly
<wpwrak>
my fairly cheap screens work at 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz, fed by VGA (one is on DVI, though). and so do the cheap video cards that feed them.
<lekernel>
ah, you were talking about VGA ;) right
<wpwrak>
i guess that just proves that, as soon as you make millions of units, everything is cheap :)
<lekernel>
the main annoyance with DP is that it has a backward compatibility mode with HDMI
<lekernel>
and you can't switch to SERDES in this case, because the GTP I/Os are dedicated
<wpwrak>
Hodapp: add JUST ONE more bit and DOUBLE the colors ! :)
<wpwrak>
can you just externally wire them together ? or is that already too much parasitic capacitance ?
<lekernel>
and the GTP has a minimum bit rate in the Gbps range, so the only solution to support this compatibility mode is to disable 8b10b encoding in the GTP, move it to the fabric, and oversample
<Hodapp>
wpwrak: With what, an R-2R or something?
<lekernel>
which is kind of a royal pain in the ass
<lekernel>
lattice transceivers are more hdmi-friendly
<lekernel>
"Lattice is currently using FLEXlm version 11.4." grmbl... so far confirms my opinion about lattice software
<Hodapp>
gaaaaah
<lekernel>
Warning: You are running on an unsupported platform
<lekernel>
'synplify_pro' only supports unknown
<lekernel>
current platform: unknown 3.4.2-1.fc16.i686
<lekernel>
Error: Could not find /data/Lattice/2.0/synpbase/unknown/mbin/synbatch
<larsc>
the joy of closed source precompiled packages
<Fallenou>
...
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<lekernel>
ah, running the tools directly without the wrapper scripts/binaries seems to work
<lekernel>
except "Nodelocked licenses are not supported on Linux client." when you want to do anything...
<lekernel>
so... as I said earlier... lattice software is shitty
<wpwrak>
maybe pester support ? :)
<Hodapp>
I made the mistake of giving Flexera my real work phone number when were looking into some information on the product that used to be called flexlm.
<lekernel>
and...?
<lekernel>
did you get nasty calls from their lawyers? ;)
<Hodapp>
No, I received annoying calls from their salesmen and emails to make sure I'd received the messages they'd left and then calls to make sure I'd gotten the emails.
<lekernel>
could be worse...
<Hodapp>
They usually went like this: "We need a price estimate for the items in a proposal." "Er, well, the price depends on a lot of things..." "Can you give us even a ballpark estimate?" "Er, well, it depends........."
<GitHub170>
[migen/master] doc: framebuffer example - Sebastien Bourdeauducq
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<larsc>
lekernel: you once told we a nice trick to get something reduction operator like in vhdl. It was something like '1' when (foo = (others => '1')) else '0'