lekernel changed the topic of #milkymist to: Milkymist One, Migen, Milkymist SoC & Flickernoise :: Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/mmlogs :: EHSM Berlin Dec 28-30 http://ehsm.eu :: latest video http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL181AAD8063FCC9DC
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<azonenberg> wpwrak: i have a board here http://uploads.oshpark.com/uploads/project/top_image/xcxzJIC7/i.png that is along those lines but a little more complex
<azonenberg> 4 layers since i wanted to make it tiny :P
<azonenberg> FT232H for JTAG plus an oscillator and an XC2C32A/64A CPLD
<azonenberg> should be a self-contained dev board
<wpwrak> hah, so many excess components :)
<wpwrak> my idea is rock bottom simplicity. but yes, it'll need a ben to be useful.
<azonenberg> I wanted enough LEDs and buttons to be able to develop my toolchain on it
<azonenberg> i wanted access to a lot of pins
<azonenberg> otherwise you could be simpler
<wpwrak> it's basically an extension of wolfgang's idea to have a disposable fpga module, in case one gets damaged by configuration experiments.
<azonenberg> makes sense
<wpwrak> btw, do you have a rule-of-thumb estimate for the current on the 1.2 V rail of an lx9 ?
<azonenberg> I haven't stressed my lx9's much
<azonenberg> But, low
<wpwrak> like 100 mA ?
<azonenberg> That's probably high
<wpwrak> nice :)
<azonenberg> i pulled ~100 from an LX25 at 160 MHz with a NoC prototype and a softcore CPU
<azonenberg> but my lx9 boards are not instrumented
<azonenberg> so i can't give you numbers
<wpwrak> yeah, a ballpark number is all i need. just to know what sort of LDO it would need.
<azonenberg> I've been using 1117-series on my little boards and it's fine
<azonenberg> Those numbers are for 3v3, 2v5, 1v2 rails on the entire board in the upper left
<azonenberg> most of the 3v3 is consumed by the 10/100 ethernet
<wpwrak> looks pretty massive ;-)
<azonenberg> when the DDR RAM is active it pulls like 500mA from the 2.5V rail between the core, I/O, and FPGA
<azonenberg> I don't think i've ever gotten an lx25 above 150 mA on the 1v2 rail
<azonenberg> so 100 as a ceiling for an lx9 sounds entirely realistic
<azonenberg> you can see all of the little boards are lx9 based
<azonenberg> Have you looked at my lx9 mini board btw?
<wpwrak> the cheapest 1.2 V LDO at digi-key does 250 mA. perfect :)
<azonenberg> i have the kicad files for the little lx9 boards in that picture public
<wpwrak> yes, yours looks like a good starting point for massive simplification :)
<azonenberg> Depends on how ismple you want
<azonenberg> i wanted enough peripherals that it was still useful
<azonenberg> but its far from disposable in that state
<wpwrak> (starting point) e.g., i trust that you get all the details like caps right. having a reference reduces the amount of chasing :)
<azonenberg> well it works
<wpwrak> (far from disposable) yeah. my aim would be just a bunch of headers and the minimum set of on-board peripherals. i.e., maybe 4 LEDs. maybe a button if it should be really fancy.
<wpwrak> anyone doing complex stuff will probably a more standalone board anyway. i.e., something more like yours.
<wpwrak> s/probably/probably want/
<azonenberg> oh and the cpld board is self-contained
<azonenberg> has onboard jtag
<wpwrak> yeah, the evil ftdi
<azonenberg> annoying but i havent yet made anything of my own that is better
<azonenberg> have you guys had bad experiences wit hthem?
<azonenberg> i spent a lot of time hunting down bugs from their driver, libftdi was just as buggy
<wpwrak> with a slightly smaller one (232, not 2232), yes. basically doesn't let you properly toggle bits. so you must get the 2232. besides, documentation is (was ?) woefully incomplete.
<azonenberg> 232h allows mpsse mode
<azonenberg> 232r does not
<wpwrak> i think it was the r. lemme see if i have the design still around ...
<azonenberg> yeah, the r is uart only + basic bitbang
<azonenberg> the h has mpsse
<wpwrak> yeah, FT232RL
<azonenberg> the original 2232 did not do mpsse either
<wpwrak> the basic bitbang would have been enough if it worked
<azonenberg> it didnt? o_O
<wpwrak> loses data
<wpwrak> maybe it's something i did wrong, but without proper documentation i couldn't find out what
<azonenberg> i had issues with data being lost on reads too
<azonenberg> on the 2232h
<azonenberg> took me like a week to figure out a hack of repeated reads and polls that seems to work
<azonenberg> i do not like it, but it's the best i've found so far
<azonenberg> i will be making a custom jtag dongle soon thouhg
<wpwrak> i eventually switched the project to using a ben. felt good to be in control :-)
<wpwrak> the ben is great for all that in-circuit programming. just take an UBB, make whatever adapter weirdness your board requires, write a few lines for the ISP (if none doesn't already exist), done
<wpwrak> even pretty nasty protocols are no big deal
<azonenberg> well the goal here was on-board programming
<azonenberg> i wanted something i could integrate int oa board and make it not need external hardwar
<wpwrak> yeah, ftdi like projects like yours ;-)
<wpwrak> but seriously, ben+UBB is a great choice. UBB is as simple as it gets and programming all that stuff in linux but with direct access to gpios is incredibly satisfying after having experienced some of the alternatives
<azonenberg> well i already have libjtaghal working for most of this stuff
<azonenberg> i just need to build myself a smart in-circuit debug module
<azonenberg> so i dont have four usb packet latencies being added to every operation
<wpwrak> yeah, round-trips, the dark side of USB :)
<azonenberg> my new module will have an fpga and gig-e
<azonenberg> and do as much smarts as possible in the adapter
<wpwrak> oh, and the ben also provides power and a clock. all for free :) the only case where this arrangement failed me was for RF. there, the clock proved to jittery. i mean, the device "worked". but you didn't want to see what it put into the ether ...
<azonenberg> most of my boards need more current anyway
<azonenberg> and some have unusual clock requirements
<azonenberg> there are some things i'm sure its good for but this isnt one :p
<wpwrak> (nasty spectrum) here are various tries "before" (using ben-provided clock): http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/rework-20110113/
<wpwrak> well, "before" ... there was a "before" even before that: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/wpan/rework-20110112/
<azonenberg> lol
<wpwrak> the art of making the signal disappear in the noise ;-)
<wpwrak> should make a good question for an EE exam. explain all the things that are wrong with this picture ;-)
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> Can the MM1 do 1080p btw?
<azonenberg> or only 720
<wpwrak> the highest i've seen is 1024x768 "XGA"
<wpwrak> not sure if lekernel has a faster variant, though. he might.
<azonenberg> well spartan6 cannot drive 1080p with the SERDES onboard but it could drive an external HDMI PHY
<azonenberg> which would allow it
<wpwrak> ah, i see. well, M1r3 has just VGA :) and M1r4 (with DVI) never made it beyond a paper exercise
<azonenberg> why?
<wpwrak> absence of demand vs. cost of making a prototype run
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<Fallenou> wpwrak: I thought the remaining R3 units had been reworked as R4 units
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<wpwrak> Fallenou: only some fixes were made. e.g., i think they now all have a "good" reset circuit.
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<Fallenou> ok
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<mwalle> Fallenou: what tests are failing?
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