lekernel changed the topic of #milkymist to: Milkymist One, Migen, Milkymist SoC & Flickernoise :: Logs: http://en.qi-hardware.com/mmlogs :: EHSM Berlin Dec 28-30 http://ehsm.eu :: latest video http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL181AAD8063FCC9DC
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<azonenberg> where'd wolfspraul go lately? havent seen him around
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<Fallenou> he's drowning under a large schematic sea
<Fallenou> I guess :)
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> i was going to tell him that i got a new decap setup so i can get some die pics now
<azonenberg> next time someone sees him send him this http://siliconexposed.blogspot.com/2013/01/new-decap-setup.html
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<kyak> azonenberg: you might as well use memoserv (/quote memoserv help)
<kyak> and wow, impressive work
<azonenberg> didnt know there was one here
<azonenberg> and thanks
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<kyak> azonenberg: correct me if i'm wrong. Decapping of MCU allows not only to break protection, such as read-only switch, but also reproduce the MCU?
<azonenberg> Depackaging just lets you look at it
<azonenberg> What you do after that is up to you
<GitHub112> [milkymist-ng] sbourdeauducq pushed 7 new commits to master: http://git.io/ZUzhCg
<GitHub112> milkymist-ng/master e4144f2 Sebastien Bourdeauducq: software/common.mak: use -target instead of deprecated -ccc-host-triple
<GitHub112> milkymist-ng/master c490917 Sebastien Bourdeauducq: software/common.mak: remove -fsigned-char from CFLAGS
<GitHub112> milkymist-ng/master b0503aa Sebastien Bourdeauducq: software/include/base/stdint.h: more definitions
* sb0 recommends active noise cancelling headphones for better nerdage onboard aircraft
<azonenberg> kyak: Given enough time, effort, and electron microscope time you could fully clone the chip (ignoring legal issues)
<azonenberg> But my interest is not in cloning devices, I want to see how they work
<azonenberg> As well as security analysis
<kyak> kewl
<kyak> have you tried to do that with very complicated devices, like modern processors?
<azonenberg> My group is mostly interested in building a body of public knowledge on how IC reversing works
<azonenberg> While the fab of small devices is a lot harder than large ones, once you have photos it's no harder to figure out how they work (ignoring scalability issues in the analysis tools for huge netlists, etc)
<azonenberg> So we mostly stick to >=350nm devices which are possible to study by optical microscopy
<azonenberg> since SEM is somewhat pricey to get time on and optical scopes are free (I have four in my lab i can use whenever i want)
<azonenberg> That said, I do want to see a spartan6 naked at some point and the lower levels will need a SEM
<kyak> ok, i see
<Fallenou> 10:44 * sb0 recommends active noise cancelling headphones for better nerdage onboard aircraft < yeah, buy Parrot Zik heaphones :D
<Fallenou> headphones*
<sb0> I have Bose Quietcomfort 15
<sb0> works pretty well
<Fallenou> yeah Bose are quite known for having good audio quality and good noice cancelation
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<bkero> They're quite well known for that. Unfortunately they don't actually make very good products anymore, just coasting on reputation.
<bkero> Very common for people who know nothing at all about audio to just say "bose makes good stuff, buy bose"
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<wpwrak> noice-canceling headphones are nice. but your ears will still hurt after a while. better get a few drinks and just sleep through the ordeal.
<wpwrak> azonenberg: you need to integrate this: eching and scanning in one easy device. put in the chip, press a button, out come transistor-level pictures :)
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<kyak> i have a name for that - IC scanner :)
<larsc> I guess I'm the only one who finds the airplane engine noise comforting
<kyak> yeah.. at least it means that the engines are still running :)
<wpwrak> larsc: there are some planes where it's not :) especially tail-engined ones with seats all the way into the hindmost corner. (and of course, no windows back there either)
<wpwrak> larsc: but i think the real enemy here are human voices. especially those of young humans.
<larsc> that's why I like the engine noise, it cancels out verything else
<wpwrak> larsc: hmm, they have to rev very high to drown the shrieking of young humans.
<wpwrak> larsc: i'm not sure i'd find it very comfortable to hear an engine go like that for very long. in fact, it probably won't :)
<wpwrak> s/comfortable/comforting/
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<larsc> azonenberg: over at #homecmos wolfgang is actually creating quite some noise
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<wpwrak> larsc: is he ? checking http://irclog.whitequark.org/homecmos/ doesn't look very noisy
<larsc> join,part,join,part,join,part
<larsc> with different ips
<wpwrak> ah, that kind of noise ;-)
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<Fallenou> mwalle: could you send me your tb_lm32_system as well as your test_mmu_*.elf?
<Fallenou> I bet my elf files are different, due to my toolchain, I will try to compare the generated assembly :)
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