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<Smerdyakov>
contravariantfun, now there's a moutful.
<contravariantfun>
It's trucated :)
<Smerdyakov>
I can imagine your mom calling you when you were a child.
<contravariantfun>
Should be `contravariantfunkster'
<vincenz>
contravariantfunctor
<vincenz>
aka
<contravariantfun>
Inded.
<vincenz>
(A x -) -> C
<vincenz>
or wiat
<vincenz>
(- x B) -> C
<Smerdyakov>
Your category theory can't faze me. I'm a trained professional.
<vincenz>
no you're not, you're a phd student
<Smerdyakov>
PhD students are a subset of trained professionals.
<vincenz>
no
<Smerdyakov>
Yesyesyes!
* vincenz
used to be a trained professional and is now an phd sudent
<vincenz>
anywho
<vincenz>
I'm not good at category theory
<vincenz>
trying to learn it, but it ain't simple, especially since I don't have the background
<contravariantfun>
I think its over-reated.
<contravariantfun>
err, rated.
<contravariantfun>
Gerloch's book is pretty nice though.
<vincenz>
not familiar with it
<contravariantfun>
But that's from a mathematical physics perspective.
<Smerdyakov>
Funny. I was just thinking about those damned physical scientists and their ideological agenda to keep schoolchildren from learning discrete math.
<vincenz>
yeah
<vincenz>
they should teach set theory and category theory in school
<vincenz>
who needs real numbers
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* basti_
is just doing opengl in ocaml, which is fun.
<vincenz>
what do you use as windowing framework?
<vincenz>
something like glut?
<basti_>
i use lab(l)gl
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<basti_>
which is on top of tk as far as i can see
<vincenz>
alright :)
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<Smerdyakov>
Wow. SyntaxNinja descends from the ivory tower! ;)
<SyntaxNinja>
haha
<SyntaxNinja>
Smerdyakov: you are SOOOO much more ivory tower than me it's not even funny.
<Smerdyakov>
OK, you monad maniac.
<SyntaxNinja>
:)
<SyntaxNinja>
how ya been?
<Smerdyakov>
Gooood
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<SyntaxNinja>
I'm here wondering if folks know of studies that show how much better FP is than other kinds of programming
<SyntaxNinja>
(even though I know that any such study is probably going to be bunk)
<SyntaxNinja>
(not because it's not true, but because it's too hard to measure such things)
<Smerdyakov>
No, but I'd like to do one some time. :)
<Submarine>
where, an ivory tower?
<Submarine>
is that where tenured academics live?
<Smerdyakov>
No, on a hip web site.
<Smerdyakov>
Because hip web sites are the future
<Smerdyakov>
Submarine, did George show up yet?
* SyntaxNinja
is not an academic, btw
<Smerdyakov>
SyntaxNinja, you have some connections to a university, though, right?
<SyntaxNinja>
Smerdyakov: not really
<Smerdyakov>
You go to university interest groups or something?
<SyntaxNinja>
when I was at university, I ran a club that I"m still in contact with, and I also work with academics
<Smerdyakov>
There we go.
<Submarine>
Smerdyakov, Yes, he has arrived. We discussed options for DSL and cell phones.
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<mfurr>
anyone know of a good static analysis toolkit for java, similar to what CIL is for C (and preferrably written in ocaml)?
<Smerdyakov>
I smell JQual.
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<mfurr>
no, actually I'm working on something different :)
<mfurr>
Jeff's other student is working on JQual
<Smerdyakov>
Fine, then. I don't know of any such thinger. Did you check the Hump?
<mfurr>
yeah, there's a class file reader, but I need to look at source files...
<Smerdyakov>
I bet you could write it with much less effort than CIL required.
<mfurr>
I'm sure, but really all I need is to mine native methods and the transitive closure of the types that passed to them
<mfurr>
I don't need to do much in the way of fancy visitors and such
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<mfurr>
heh, JLint is written in c++.... yuck
<Smerdyakov>
How come you only come to this channel to ask questions, anyway? :D
<mfurr>
I think this is only the second time I've asked a question here...
<mfurr>
I've answered many more than that though :D
<Smerdyakov>
Yeah, but you weren't here for a while, right?
<mfurr>
yeah, I would say my presence is "bursty"
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<mfurr>
yarg, #java is worthless
<KrispyKringle>
heh
<KrispyKringle>
i thought you were going to say java is worthless.
<Smerdyakov>
He'd be undermining his hard work if he said that!
<mfurr>
java is an excellent excercise in how to type too much to get something done
<KrispyKringle>
i couldn't have put it better myself.
<mellum>
But the new version has a forall macro! Now that's innovation!
<Smerdyakov>
It's not a macro, is it? I thought it was an ad-hoc kludge.
<mellum>
I don't really know.
<KrispyKringle>
forall? nice. :P
<Smerdyakov>
I didn't hear anything about macros, period.
<Smerdyakov>
I've seen a talk about Java 5.
<KrispyKringle>
terminology, schmerminology.
<KrispyKringle>
yeah, what's the deal with that? Isn't it 1.5?
<Smerdyakov>
They're mentally odd.l
<KrispyKringle>
well, it's n ot as bad as all the ISPs.AOL has 9.0, so suddenly, MSN is at 10.0.
<mellum>
And Ocaml is onbly at 3.08. AOL must be better than Ocaml.
<SyntaxNinja>
smerd: can I ask AOL questions here?
<Smerdyakov>
SyntaxNinja, only if you use category theory.
<SyntaxNinja>
heh
<KrispyKringle>
that really bugged me about ubuntu linux. they use a numbering scheme based on the month and year of the latest release, so even though they just came out, they're at version, like, 4.something.
<SyntaxNinja>
Haskell is already at version 98
<Smerdyakov>
I like MLton's numbering scheme.
<Smerdyakov>
Versions like 20041104.
<Smerdyakov>
No dots, so it's not misleading.
<drewr>
Easy to sort...
<mellum>
Smerdyakov: but you get no clue whether the change is major or minor.
<mfurr>
I think Knuth got it right with TeX... just use your favorite irrational number
<Smerdyakov>
mellum, oh, they don't make minor releases. :)
<KrispyKringle>
mellum: it's a bit tough. Gentoo does YYYY.V, e.g. 2004.1. But more rational version numbers are maintained for individual components, and upgrades are generally gradual, so that versioning is only really meaningful for release CDs, which are done on a quarterly basis.
<mfurr>
I guess when it takes a couple of days to recompile everything, upgrades would be "gradual" ;-)
<KrispyKringle>
haha
<KrispyKringle>
yes, that is my big complaint. i've always toyed with the idea of starting a binary package repo, but....nah.
<Smerdyakov>
Debian, you schnutz.
<KrispyKringle>
yeah, yeah.
<KrispyKringle>
i think i'd go with freebsd if i didn't use gentoo, actually.
<KrispyKringle>
but it has some issues on my hardware, which is why i use linux./
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<vincenz>
what is "bunk"
<mbh>
some sort of protective shelter?
<vincenz>
no
<mbh>
:)
<KrispyKringle>
bunk is like bull
<vincenz>
oh
<KrispyKringle>
as in, "All religion is bunk" (supposedly said by Thomas Edison).
<KrispyKringle>
apparently it also means "to cut and run"
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<kuribas>
hi
<kuribas>
Is it possible to store generic datatypes in Bigarray?
<Smerdyakov>
No
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<kuribas>
I would like to read a bitmap from a file, but I would prefer Black | White over 0 or 1
<kuribas>
So that's impossible whith Bigarray?
<Smerdyakov>
Right
<Smerdyakov>
(It clearly says so in the documentation.)
<kuribas>
ok then. I saw something about kind, but that should be something different then.
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<kuribas>
Is an normal Array of a Black | White type efficient?
<Smerdyakov>
I think so.
<Smerdyakov>
A word per element
<kuribas>
hmm, a bit wasteful for 1 bit values
<kuribas>
I want to do analysis on scanned images
<kuribas>
they could be quite large
<Smerdyakov>
Pretty easy to make your own abstraction layer for bit-arrays.