flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | 3.11.0 out now! Get yours from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html
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<jli> gildor: what's the ocaml meeting?
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<jli> julm: thanks
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<jli> is the only use of tag bits to distinguish pointers and integers?
<thelema> no, pointers have some color bits
<thelema> there's one bit to distinguish pointers and integers
<thelema> I think two more for color
<jli> hm. what are they for?
<thelema> GC
<thelema> if something needs to be collected
<thelema> but that's in the first word of heap-allocated values
<thelema> plus the size of the object
<thelema> http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:xpoU7ehjmbUJ:www.ps.uni-sb.de/~scheidhr/slides/ocaml-ds.ppt+ocaml+color+gc&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
<jli> thanks thelema
<thelema> no problem
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<kaustuv> Is it allowed to post such blatant recruitment posts to caml-list?
<Camarade_Tux> well, there is a mailing-list that has been created specifically for this last year but it has less visibility I think and as far as I'm concerned, I see that as OK
<Camarade_Tux> and /me would like to know what is their new language
<julm> kaustuv: there is ocaml-jobs@inria.fr
<julm> but only 13 mails since september 2007...
<julm> also there is : http://cocan.org/people
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<Camarade_Tux> anyone know how to make ocamlbuild *not* scan a directory ? (this directory has .a files and ocamlbuild says this is not hygienic)
<flux> doesn't it suggest some switches you can use
<flux> something like -no-hygiene and -no-somethinsomething
<Camarade_Tux> afaik there is a switch but I don't know how to include that switch in the tag file
<Camarade_Tux> (or I can make a shell script and call it instead)
<Camarade_Tux> hmmm, ocamlbuild -X PATH doesn't seem to be what I'm looking for
<Camarade_Tux> I guess I'll just move the directory I want to ignore elsewhere
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<Yoric[DT]> There's a tag not_hygienic, iirc.
<Camarade_Tux> yep, not_hygienic works, thanks :)
<Yoric[DT]> np
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<Camarade_Tux> the terrible thing about dynamic library bidings is they are guaranteed to fail very often (requiring some API which is not available until lib2.13)
<flux> you mean in ocaml?
<flux> what do you mean?
<flux> lib2.13?
* flux is full of questions
<Camarade_Tux> lib2.13 was just an example ;)
<Camarade_Tux> (though it could be gtk ;) )
<Camarade_Tux> and more generally about gobject-introspection : if the bindings adapt to the version currently available, you can't really check for a version of the bindings later on, or at least I don't know how to do it
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<Camarade_Tux> tbh what really annoys me is that I can't version packages made with ocaml-gir unless I do some heavy autotools =/
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<Camarade_Tux> is there currently anything to *install* a library with ocamlfind and ocamlbuild ?
<Camarade_Tux> or should I just make a Makefile that calls ocamlbuild for the build part and has an install: rule ?
<flux> user expects a Makefile anyway :)
<palomer_> is there an ocaml library for finding fonts on a system?
<flux> you know, that seems like a very, very specialiced library to exist
<palomer_> how am I supposed to render text if I don't know where the fonts are located?
<palomer_> include the fonts with my application?
<Camarade_Tux> find /usr/share/fonts/ -name "*.ttf"
<Camarade_Tux> :D
<palomer_> that's for all unix systems?
<flux> well, such a feature could be part of a widget set or a font rendering library?
<palomer_> using sdl
<flux> tough :)
<Camarade_Tux> flux, hmm, stupid user ;p
<Camarade_Tux> palomer_, it's pretty standard
<flux> just put the font along the package
<flux> palomer_, support what you have first, should not be a big task to extend it
<palomer_> flux, even then, the user would have to run the application from the directory where the font is located
<flux> aren't you actually using freetype, with some SDL interfacing?
<palomer_> no no, pure ocamlsdl
<flux> palomer_, well, if it's something you make install, the application can know the absolute path to the font
<palomer_> there's freetype for ocaml?
<flux> I'd imagine SDL uses freetype..
<palomer_> flux, how?
<Camarade_Tux> and Sys.executable_name
<flux> say the program installs to /usr/bin/foo, it can also install the font to /usr/lib/foo/foo.ttf
<flux> (that's what I did with goba)
<flux> in other words: the same way it knows the location of the other accompanying files
<Camarade_Tux> actually there's something but I've forgotten what
<flux> many pieces of software come along with files the need during the initialization..
<palomer_> it's possible to find out the absolute path of the executable you're running?
<flux> it can be possible in certain unixes
<flux> but of course, if someone makes a hard link, or possibly even a soft link, you might be out of luck
<Camarade_Tux> Sys.executable_name :)
<Camarade_Tux> no, doesn't work with symlinks =/ (and you'll never get it working with hardlinks)
<palomer_> =/
<flux> so the solution I'm suggesting: stick the absolute path into the binary
<mrvn> argv[0] gives you the name.
<flux> and you need to find it from path yourself..
<palomer_> argv[0] does not give you the absolute path of the executable though
<flux> and if the PATH isn't exported, you lose
<flux> fortunately it is :)
<flux> it's not fool proof, but usually good enough
<flux> palomer_, you can actually support multiple possible paths and perform a search
<palomer_> right
<palomer_> that's what I was thinking
<flux> and if everything fails, let the use provide an environment variable which tells the location
<palomer_> but I need to figure out what the standard unix paths are
<palomer_> I guess /usr/share/fonts/*/* will do
<mrvn> palomer_: getenv PATH is a good bet
<palomer_> that gives you the font paths?
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<palomer_> (I was talking about font paths)
<Camarade_Tux> and if you need, you should look at fontconfig/xft
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* palomer_ prays the ocaml gods for some fontconfig bindings
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<itewsh> is there any module (installed by default) allowing us to use sockets on windows?
<Camarade_Tux> Unix lets you do that iirc
<itewsh> I tried establish_server and open_connection on windows, but I got an exception such as "Not implemented", or something else ...
<Camarade_Tux> everything isn't available but many things are (unison and mldonkey work perfectly on windows)
<itewsh> perhaps they wrote their own modules in c
<mfp> itewsh: establish_server uses fork, which isn't available on that platform
<Camarade_Tux> itewsh, not that I know
<itewsh> hmm, why do they use forks instead of threads?
<itewsh> because of safety? (I'm thinking about google chrome tabs)
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<jli> kaustuv: didn't jane st recruit people from the ocaml list?
<mfp> itewsh: establish_server is just the traditional Unix accept / fork loop
<mfp> see otherlibs/unix/unix.ml
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* flux took a look at django for an inspiration what should go into a good web framework
<flux> I suppose some sort of user management is one thing most web apps want to have
<flux> and request routing is the other
<flux> I'd also like to have some concept of building web pages out of components, but the problem of routing parameters and data in that case doesn't seem to have a clear answer..
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<Camarade_Tux> time to improve my ocamlbuild-fu : auto-generating a configuration for dependencies on other libs I just made, along with C bindings :)
<Camarade_Tux> pretty basic but I've never really used ocamlbuild
<Yoric[DT]> ocamlbuild is nice
<Yoric[DT]> slow but nice
<Camarade_Tux> I really love it : I can autogenerate ocamlbuild config but I'd never autogenerate a Makefile ! :p
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<Camarade_Tux> argh, who thought it would be funny to begin a function name with an uppercase letter ?
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<Camarade_Tux> argh_bis : how can I change the case of JSEvaluateScript, the proper translation would be js_evaluate_script but I can only code j_s_evaluate_script which is terrible =/
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<Alpounet> Camarade_Tux, javascript_evaluate ?
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<Camarade_Tux> Alpounet, JS.evaluate_script actually :)
<Camarade_Tux> but I need a function that works with _anything_
<Alpounet> ok
<Camarade_Tux> hmmm, actually you made me realize the "JS" part should be stripped
<jli> The wikipedia page for "functor" is about the category theory concept. At the top, there's a link to functor as a sysnonym of functional value, which isn't the same thing, if I understand correctly.
<jli> is "functor" as used in ML mostly just ML terminology?
<Yoric[DT]> 'night everyone
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<monadic_kid> jli: no
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<jli> monadic_kid: could you elaborate? where else is it used in the same way as in ML?
<Camarade_Tux> yep, got my casing issue sorted :)
<mbishop> functor is used in other languages with similar meaning to ML, but I don't think functor has the same meaning in ML as it does in mathematics
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<mbishop> Actually, I might be wrong
* mbishop shrugs
<monadic_kid> functor is just another way of saying a (natural) transformation, a mapping between *things*, function is a functor. A functor in modules is like a function defining a relatiion between modules. Also see ML Modules and Haskell Type Classes:
<monadic_kid> A Constructive Comparison http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~chak/papers/modules-classes.pdf
<mbishop> ok yeah I was wrong, wikipedia says so!
<mbishop> In some functional programming languages, such as ML, a functor represents a mapping from modules to modules, and is a technique for reusing code. Functors used in this manner are analogous to the original mathematical meaning of functor in category theory
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<Alpounet> yeah
<Alpounet> that's exactly what is written, an analogy
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