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<pmjer>
is the 3.11 version of ocaml with standard autotools? just found something subtly weird.
<pmjer>
i mean the source code version
<pmjer>
say, the configure script doesnt even have --help option
<pmjer>
and the options listed in INSTALL doesnt seem to follow standards, as the first hyphen leading to a first english word is supposed to be a double hyphen
<pmjer>
is there a special reason for this?
<flux>
it is not a standard autotool configure. infact, I don't think it has anything to do with autotool.
<flux>
well, that is a rather recent project for one
<flux>
I guess historical reasons. you know, the double-dash "standard" hasn't always been the way in unix, it was afaik GNU that introduced it ;).
<flux>
personally I prefer it, but living with the single-dash options is no problem for me :)
<pmjer>
Thanks for the insight, but i suppose next release or perhaps trunk would saw standard autotools?
<pmjer>
or is there any plan for that?
<flux>
doubtful
<flux>
ocaml-autoconf-project itself has nothing to do with inria's ocaml other than it provides tools to use them together
<pmjer>
sigh, what a pity
<flux>
switching now to double dash switches would break package building scripts, and do note that the compiler itself uses single-dash options too. if that was changed too, it would lead to breaking build scripts (Makefiles etc)
<flux>
pmjer, may I ask why should it switch?
<pmjer>
well, the majority of others use double dashes
<flux>
I think there is a significant amount of people who would rather avoid autotools
<pmjer>
and double dashes would mean an english word, but not a single character
<pmjer>
which is with only one dash
<flux>
of course, using double dashes doesn't require using autotools. both could be accepted.
<pmjer>
and so is autotools, albeit people r avoiding them
<pmjer>
project like 7zip started with autotools. however with the introduction of cmake they still perserved the autotools
<pmjer>
its more compatible in a legacy sense
<flux>
in any case, I could imagine switching from current system to autotools could be a significant change with much potential for regression, without giving much, if any, benefit
<pmjer>
but what about cmake and double dashes?
<flux>
again, wouldn't changing it now likely break stuff?
<pmjer>
well compatibility options would smooth things
<flux>
I do question the benefit of it too. the single-dash version is still historically the way the command line switches have been created, while gnu introducing the double-dash way is more recent addition.
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<pmjer>
say, u could have a period of both single and double dash, and after a reasonable amount of time we could just use double dash
<flux>
btw, for example gcc uses single-dash options
<pmjer>
but gcc is not completely single dash
<flux>
although you were just talking about the configure script, of course, I just extrapolated that you would like the compiler to use double-dash too
<flux>
apparently it does allow the double-dash versions of the same switches too
<flux>
while that kind of change could be easily implemented, it would break the forward-compatibility of previous versions
<pmjer>
flux: pls wait a min, i will take a look at the ocaml compiler
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<pmjer>
well the interpreter's only double dash in --help is just --help itself
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<olegfink>
pmjer: what exactly is your problem with the current ocaml build system that would require switching to autotools/cmake/whatever to fix?
<jli>
what's the benefit of changing it, again?
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<flux>
pmjer, it is unlikely one would guess the other switches anyway
<olegfink>
and what is the benefit of double-dash options for a script that has no single-letter ones?
<pmjer>
well say the interpreter has both -S option and the -thread option, so there is some single-letter options
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<pmjer>
the problem that is obvious to me is just it doenst looks "compatible" with other projects if any i admit
<flux>
the dubious benefit of using -- for long arguments is that you can merge single-character arguments together. but if you need to support for older versions too, it break backwards compatibility.
<olegfink>
again that makes zero sense for configure as it uses no single-char arguments.
<flux>
also, if you change it now and make use of it and someone with an older compiler tries to use your Makefile, it fails for no good reason
<olegfink>
and there was never a standard on argument processing compatibility. ocaml's one is pretty good for its suse.
<pmjer>
well if it breaks both forward and backward compatibility i would say its not worth it
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<olegfink>
s/suse/use/
<pmjer>
and configure script does not have any single letter options sure
<pmjer>
your arguments are very convincing, and so i would summarize that into compatibility issues.
<olegfink>
as to the compiler, the problem is that the whole argument passing convention in unix wasn't designed with such complex programs in mind as e.g. gcc. this is a problem that can't easily be solved by changing a few arguments somewhere.
<pmjer>
but as for configure script, some single letter option might be more effective than mutli character words
<pmjer>
if possible
<pmjer>
and if its well understood
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<oracle1>
hi
<oracle1>
is it unclean to let the parser translate hex numbers into decimals while parsing? When your Ast only supports decimals.
<oracle1>
err the lexer
<oracle1>
while lexing
<oracle1>
ah ocaml already can do that
<oracle1>
ok question solved. thanks! :)
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<schme>
no problem!
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<rwmjones>
gildor, ping
<rwmjones>
gildor, in coccinelle you're applying a patch to fix the unsafe tmp handling (CVE-2009-1753)
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<gildor>
rwmjones: hi
<rwmjones>
hi gildor .. see above
<rwmjones>
so the patch chops out the offending code, but leaves the output_file string still empty
<gildor>
rwmjones: indeed
<rwmjones>
there's half a dozen other possible-security problems in that area of code, eg. passing unquoted strings to 'cp'
<rwmjones>
I'm probably going to apply that patch anyway ... upstream can come up with a fix, although I'm not too hopeful
<gildor>
rwmjones: have you some patches for redhat
<rwmjones>
for coccinelle in Fedora? not specifically - I'm just going to use Debian's fix
<rwmjones>
because at the moment I'm so busy that I have no time to really sit down and work out the proper fix for this plus all the other apparent problems in that bit of code
<gildor>
the output_file doesn't seems to be modified anyway in the patch
<gildor>
(I mean with or without the patch)
<gildor>
it seem that the tmpfile is just for information
<rwmjones>
right, I see that
<gildor>
the tmpfile is not accessible outside the block
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<gildor>
so to my mind the patch just disable a potential bug in an optional branch
<gildor>
so I think the patch seems OK
<gildor>
rwmjones: do you agree ?
<rwmjones>
yes I think I agree
<rwmjones>
thanks ...
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<mfp>
has anybody quantified the overhead of ocamlopt -g + OCAMLRUNPARAM=-b
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<mfp>
or Printexc.record_backtrace true ?
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<jmuller>
read something about g'caml and found out its almost dead, wonder if those extensional polymorphism is added here already?
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<mfp>
jmuller: haven't heard of any plans to merge it into mainline OCaml
<jmuller>
mfp: thanks for info, but its a pity though.
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<robocop>
hello
<robocop>
do you know how I can get the message posted by the users with lib Irc ?
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<jli>
what would be idiomatic OCaml for declaring a global ref with an unknown initial value? make it an option ref and use None?
<jli>
I'm using ocaml-curses and I want global height and width refs
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<Camarade_Tux>
jli, yes
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<travisbrady>
do ocamlers tend to prefer recursion to for/while?
<Camarade_Tux>
use what fits most :)
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<jli>
travisbrady: the for/while constructs are pretty limited, but they have their uses. you tend to see much more higher order functions or recursion, though
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<travisbrady_>
how do i use code in another file in the same directory? Do I have to compile both files to cmx first?
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<flux>
travisbrady_, well, you can, or you can just put them all into the same compilation command: ocamlc a.ml b.ml c.ml
<flux>
travisbrady_, but you would forgo separate compilation that way
<flux>
travisbrady_, do note that if module B needs to refer to module A, module A needs to be compiled first
<flux>
travisbrady_, oh, and am important point: file named foo.ml will produce module with name Foo
<travisbrady_>
hmm, what do i give up w/o separate compilation?
<flux>
compilation speed
<flux>
not of consequence if you're just playing :)
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<flux>
also I see you are using cmx files (natively compiled). I'm thinking using byte-code (.cmo-files) would be sufficient unless you need the best performance.
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<Camarade_Tux>
and ocaml is really fast to compile and unless your files are 1000 lines, you won't notice anything
<mrvn>
and even then it is still fast
<mrvn>
Not like c++ code that compiles for a few hours.
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<travisbrady_>
indeed, or Haskell that compiles in months or even years (just kidding...mostly)
<Camarade_Tux>
C++ makes me mad, even 'int main() { return 0; }' takes more than half a second
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<Yoric[DT]>
Does anyone know if there's a way to increase the speed of ocamlbuild?
<flux>
I've got a (too big, 3.5k lines) file that takes 13 seconds to compile. that's the longest time by far..
<flux>
(for me that is)
<Camarade_Tux>
I guess you even have some complex typing
<Camarade_Tux>
(I find even 13s to be long)
<flux>
well, it has functions curry2 to curry14..
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<jli>
flux: oh man. why?
<jli>
Camarade_Tux: who cares about the constants? :P (re c++)
<flux>
it has constructs like List.map (OfDb.tuple (mo OfDb.device_db_id @| mo OfDb.string @| mo OfDb.string @| mo OfDb.string) @@ curry4 @@ function Some a, Some b, c, Some d -> ..
<Camarade_Tux>
flux, hehe :p
<flux>
so database response extraction mostly
<travisbrady_>
somehow i'm now getting a syntax error with "#load "str.cma";;"
<Camarade_Tux>
jli, it's just ... frustrating ;)
<flux>
travisbrady_, you put that in an .ml-file?
<travisbrady_>
flux: i did yes, it doesn't belong i'm guessing?
<travisbrady_>
it's a toplevel directive?
<flux>
travisbrady_, #-commands are for the toplevel, you would use compiler command line arguments (ocamlc str.cma foo.ml) in place of them
<flux>
also if you use toplevel alot, you might want to stick some of those #load-commands into .ocamlinit
<travisbrady_>
ahh, thank you
<travisbrady_>
i'm used to ghc where --make usually does the trick
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<flux>
ocamlbuild tries to give some of the same magic
<Camarade_Tux>
Yoric[DT], btw, has batteries been tested on windows ?
<Camarade_Tux>
s/tested/tried/
<Yoric[DT]>
flux: my problem is not with the compilation time of ocamlc, only with the time lost by ocamlbuild
<Yoric[DT]>
(i.e. it's computing the hash of every file, whereas Make only uses the timestamp)
<Yoric[DT]>
Camarade_Tux: I believe someone has tried it but I have no real idea.
<flux>
except I don't quite have insight on ocamlbuild's operation, so I just use myocamlbuild.ml by someone else that gives that nice pkg_foo-magic
<flux>
yoric[dt], you have tons of files aroud?
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<flux>
yoric[dt], maybe some kind of system that would make use if dnotify/inotify could be devised?
<flux>
like I think omake does
<Yoric[DT]>
flux: yep, several dozen files.
<flux>
yoric[dt], how long does it take to sha1 *.ml?
<Camarade_Tux>
omake can use gamin/fam afaik
<Yoric[DT]>
(300+ for Batteries, "only" about 90 for the project on which I'm currently working)
<Camarade_Tux>
and isn't sha1 nearly overkill ?
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<flux>
(or md5sum)
<Yoric[DT]>
flux: I haven't checked exactly, but all in all, ocamlbuild seems to lose 5 to 15 seconds computing and checking hashes...
<flux>
I mean md5sum for 125 ml-files takes 0.016 seconds on my slow system
<flux>
so it must be something else that's slow?
<Yoric[DT]>
Possibly.
<mrvn>
inotify support is nice. You just save your file and it runs a compile for you.
<flux>
yoric[dt], perhaps you could try profiling it once you get agitated enough :)
<Yoric[DT]>
:)
<Camarade_Tux>
or completely disable checksumming ? if that's for something like godi, you always have a clean source directory
<flux>
I think the point is that yoric wants faster compile times, not slower..
<flux>
in the presence of few changes
<Camarade_Tux>
sure, I had the distribution in mind
<flux>
but, I'm off to sleep
<flux>
merry hacking
<Camarade_Tux>
anyway, building on a ramdisk could be another possibility
* Camarade_Tux
goes back to his homework ;)
<mrvn>
after the first compile the source should be in cache. should make no difference.
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<Yoric[DT]>
Well, for some reason, compiling twice with ocamlbuild remains quite slow.
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<mrvn>
Maybe you could use ccache.
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<travisbrady_>
what are labels?
<mrvn>
names for parameters
<mrvn>
lets you specify parameters out of order or skip optional ones
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