<mrvn>
palomer: that is what the DirectMedia Layer had
<mrvn>
windows DirectMedia Layer
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<Yoric[DT]>
'morning
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<monadic_kid>
@src Functor State
<monadic_kid>
@src instance Functor State
<monadic_kid>
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah wrong channel
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<jli>
I'm trying to use big_ints, but I just see "<abstr>" printed
<jli>
first, what is abstr short for? and second, is there a way to get the number printed, aside from running string_of_big_int on the result?
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<Tux__>
jli, it's short for "abstract" which means it can't be printed
<Tux__>
you can install your own printer to get it printed
<Tux__>
let f i = print_endline (string_of_big_int i);;
<Tux__>
#install_printer f;;
<Tux__>
that should let you get started (it will print but won't be very pretty)
<jli>
Tux__: neat, thanks
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<jli>
so how do most people learn OCaml? the OReilly book, the reference manual, OCaml for Scientists?
<thelema>
jli: lots of trial and error.
<thelema>
for me, the reference manual was my biggest resource
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<robocop>
let f a = a;;
<robocop>
you should install the xavierbot :o
<Tux__>
there is the mlbot but he is currently offline
<robocop>
okey.
<kaustuv>
IRC is not your ocaml toplevel
<palomer>
hrmph
<palomer>
I wanna render text and put pixels on the screen
<palomer>
which library should I use?
<robocop>
Graphics ?
<palomer>
oh, and I'd like to use any true type font
<palomer>
ah, it has set_font
<palomer>
does Graphics support multiple windows?
<palomer>
doesn't so
<palomer>
(I should add that to my requirements :P)
<palomer>
oh, and I need signals
<palomer>
ugh, I think ill stick to ocamlsdl for now
<flux>
palomer, so your days with lablgtk are thing of the past?-)
<flux>
haven't heard of the qtcaml project for a while..
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<Tux__>
mmmhh, I wonder if qtcaml wouldn't fit newhope...
<Tux__>
afaiu, it's almost ready
<hcarty>
Tux__: I think qtcaml is a little too large scale for newhope, unless several folks were involved in its upkeep
<hcarty>
Tux__: The authors posted that it will likely be ~1 year before qtcaml is useful for projects
<hcarty>
I don't remember which list though
<Tux__>
hcarty, yeah, it's big, the idea was that qtcaml would probably benefit from some manpower since its original authors are currently busy
<Tux__>
has anyone here actually checked by himself ? I mean getting the source and trying
<hcarty>
Tux__: I've trusted the authors on the front of utility. There are a lot of tools in the source tree though, so there may be something useful there.
<hcarty>
The code is there in Subversion so anyone can grab it and give it a try
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<Camarade_Tux>
I think I'll check by myself, I'm under the impression "useful for projects" (partly) means it should be tested more thoroughly
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<hcarty>
Camarade_Tux: Please let us know how it goes
<palomer>
flux, yes! never want to touch gtk, ever again!
<palomer>
flux, any library suggestions?
<palomer>
ocamlsdl fits all my needs...
<palomer>
except multiple windows
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<hcarty>
palomer: What complaints do you have regarding Gtk that SDL fixed for you?
<palomer>
hcarty, err, I needed to draw directly to the framebuffer
<palomer>
the only thing I would need from gtk is signals
<palomer>
sdl gives that
<palomer>
I decided to do all my drawing manually (instead of relying on widgets)
<palomer>
I spent way too much time tweaking gtk
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<tab>
pq: do you know who's handling nouveau KMS ?
<tab>
also if there's a repo for it somewhere ?
<tab>
i took a patch from fedora kernels, but i wonder if i got the latest version
<Camarade_Tux>
tab, wrong channel ;)
<tab>
ra thanks :)
<tab>
sometimes irsii confuse me, sorry channel
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<hcarty>
palomer: If SDL doesn't work for you, you could try Cairo + X or Cairo + Gtk for window management
<palomer>
and signals?
<robocop>
what's the technic to concat a string and a char ?
<robocop>
exemple : f "ok" 'k' -> "okk"
<Camarade_Tux>
robocop, if you have a buffer (from the Buffer module), you can add a char to it iirc
<robocop>
Ha, i thinks it's String.make 1 'c'
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<palomer>
hrmph
<palomer>
is there a function that runs a command and prints its output
<palomer>
both standard output and error output?
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<palomer>
right now I'm using a combination of open_process and read_some and Signal_handle
<palomer>
err, make that read
<hcarty>
palomer: If you use Cairo + Gtk, you could use Gtk's signals, as you mentioned earlier
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<palomer>
cairo+gtk seems tempting
<palomer>
but...
<palomer>
seems like a waste
<palomer>
oh, and I need a really fast function that returns the text size before I render it
<palomer>
without rendering it, rather
<hcarty>
palomer: I imagine Pango and/or Cairo would do something like that
<palomer>
well...I guess I'll have to switch back to gtk
* palomer
sighs loudly
<palomer>
I knew I couldn't leave it for long
<Camarade_Tux>
time to test qtcaml :)
<Camarade_Tux>
I'd like to have an S/390 so I could run multiple OSes and wouldn't have to reboot so often ;p
<hcarty>
palomer: It may be best to do some basic tests first :-)
<hcarty>
Camarade_Tux: qemu or VirtualBox perhaps?
<hcarty>
Or whatever the latest and greatest Linux kernel virtualization method is
<Camarade_Tux>
hcarty, I'm running on 64bit and my crappy intel cpu won't emulate 64bit !
<Camarade_Tux>
(intel is definitely a sucker on this : they advertize a feature but only some CPUs have it)
<palomer>
erm, rendering text in cairo looks like a huge pain
<Camarade_Tux>
I never ever find the link to get the svn on a Trac page
<Camarade_Tux>
actually I never find anything on Trac
<hcarty>
Camarade_Tux: That's ... quite awful re: no 64bit emulation
<hcarty>
Camarade_Tux: I didn't realize such a distinction exists in their chips
<hcarty>
Camarade_Tux: Is it not something you could test on a 32bit VM?
<tab>
Camarade_Tux: what's cpu do you have ?
<tab>
hcarty: it doesn't have such a distinction
<Camarade_Tux>
hcarty, I wanted to use my actual windows installation in virtualbox on linux, and my actual linux installation in vbox on windows and therefore needed 64bit emulation
<Camarade_Tux>
tab, a Core2 Duo T5450
<tab>
all core2duo have VT
<Camarade_Tux>
tab, mine can't do 64bit
<tab>
core 2 duo are 64 bits too
<tab>
compared to "core duo"
<Camarade_Tux>
on #mingw-w64 (oftc), we are three with this problem (and the channel only has about 10 humans)
<Camarade_Tux>
tab, no, 64bit needs something else
<hcarty>
palomer: If you want low-level GUI control, you're going to have to sacrifice a little bit of API simplicity
<tab>
Camarade_Tux: do you have a VAIO by any malchance ?
<Camarade_Tux>
tab, no, an ASUS one, the inability to run 64bit hosts is documented at intel.com
<palomer>
hcarty, but sdl gives me both!
<palomer>
and sdl 1.3 gives me everything I want!
<Camarade_Tux>
hmmm... "APPS_CDUCE_CURL: Whether to build CDuce with expat support"
<hcarty>
palomer: Then you could update to SDL 1.3. Or Clutter looks like a promising base as well.
<hcarty>
palomer: SDL would require much more care on the drawing end, I would think, than using Cairo
<palomer>
sdl 1.3 isn't even out
<palomer>
hcarty, I'm just using put_pixel
<tab>
Camarade_Tux: can you send me the link please ? i'm curious about this intel thing now
<hcarty>
palomer: If you're drawing graphics using put_pixel, I'm not sure why you'd be unhappy with a few extra text rendering steps :-)
<palomer>
hrmph
<palomer>
I guess I'm just unhappy about having to change toolkits all the time
<Camarade_Tux>
tab, for instance : http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupId=30787 (it'd need the "virtualization technology"), btw another symptom is that vbox doesn't find an hypervisor
<Camarade_Tux>
godi-expat can't find my expat (but expat builds fine), anyone know how to increase the verbosity ?
<flux>
palomer, what do you mean by signals?
<flux>
palomer, I mean, SDL doesn't have much events to talk about either
<flux>
or especially objects that would receive signals
<flux>
it only has global events
<flux>
palomer, SDL 1.3 has multiple windows?
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<Camarade_Tux>
(but why is it impossible to draw a line ?)
<flux>
which reminds me, there was this supposedly more modern graphics library around, with the same idea as in SDL
<flux>
iirc it was c++-based, thus the wrapper generators used with the qtcaml project could be useful with that
<flux>
too bad I've forgotten its name :)
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<Camarade_Tux>
allegro ?
<flux>
no
<flux>
a more recent project
<Camarade_Tux>
and it's actually written in X
<flux>
with bindings to only a few languages, iirc
<Camarade_Tux>
s/X/C/
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<Alpounet>
hi
<monadic_kid>
I know the name is almost the same as SDL
<Camarade_Tux>
hi Alpounet
<flux>
monadic_kid, I think we're talking about the same thing
<monadic_kid>
thats what i'm saying ;)
<flux>
hey, it might've been in ubuntu too
<monadic_kid>
the graphics system is was kind of like dx sprites, support for post-process shaders
<Camarade_Tux>
I *HATE* dependencies in package management ! a.k.a. expat which is an *optional* dependency of cduce won't build because conf-expat doesn't work (but expat does) and cduce requires it even if I build it without expat support
<flux>
hmph, my apt-cache-search-fo isn't powerful enough
<flux>
camarade_tux, doesn't godi infact address that
<Camarade_Tux>
agrep for sdl ?
<Camarade_Tux>
flux, afaict it doesn't
<flux>
camarade_tux, I think some packages have configurable dependencies
<flux>
likehmm, lablgtk might depend on lablgl or not?
<Camarade_Tux>
flux, some do (lablgtk for instance) but here, it has no influence
<flux>
camarade_tux, indeed, but it's fixable :)
<flux>
more annoying to me would be the case _without_ dependencies
<flux>
I mean, installing packages and then choosing in blind the packages it requires to build?
<flux>
s/it requires/they require/
<flux>
what your problem actually is that conf-expat doesn't work, that is, there's a bug. if it did work, would the dependency bother you?
<Camarade_Tux>
godi is the only package manager where I accept dependencies because I find them usually nice, BUT dependencies are wrong too often
<Camarade_Tux>
I'll never forget how X depends on firefox in opensuse (opensus 10 I think)
<flux>
nothing --force --nodeps wouldn't fix ;-)
<palomer>
or how everything depends on labltk in godi?
<Alpounet>
palomer, register to the ML :)
<Camarade_Tux>
yeah, I need to avoid labltk and lablgl each time
<palomer>
the godi ML?
<palomer>
oh, the new hope ML
<Alpounet>
yeah
<flux>
more annoying is that godi doesn't show reverse dependencies
<palomer>
lists.forge.ocamlcore.org uses an invalid security certificate.
<Camarade_Tux>
got it working : I had to give the INCDIR and the LIBDIR but it should have been ok from the beginning (and INCDIR was needed even though it is /usr/include)
<Camarade_Tux>
the problem was maybe that I have /usr/lib64, or that I have a 32-bit expat too
<Camarade_Tux>
flux, I completely agree about reverse dependencies ;)
<Alpounet>
palomer, huh ?
<Camarade_Tux>
the forge uses a self-signed certificate iirc
<gildor>
palomer: why that
<flux>
does it provide the CA certificate then?
<gildor>
palomer: the security certificate look right to me
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: the forge doesn't use a self-signed certficate
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: why do you think that ?
<Camarade_Tux>
gildor, I remember having a warning in firefox but that was a long time ago and I'm not sure what it was =/
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: ah ok, the warning is not about that
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: this is just that you don't know the signing authority
<gildor>
which is cacert.org
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: I cannot afford having Verisign cert
<palomer>
are there any advantages to move from google code to the forge?
<Alpounet>
gildor, you haven't found where the posting error comes from yet ?
<gildor>
nope, I have tried various things though
<Alpounet>
Ok. Weird.
<gildor>
but this is not my part of the admin work
<gildor>
I am quite new to mailman setup
<gildor>
palomer: what project do you want to migrate from google code to the forge ?
<gildor>
Alpounet: will work on it tonight, if I have time
<Alpounet>
gildor, hum, can I be of help for anything ?
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* gildor
go to dinner
<gildor>
Alpounet: if you can gather some information about the error and give me URL of best doc
<gildor>
(this is mailman + postfix on etch)
<gildor>
palomer: most obvious gain to migrate OCaml project to OCaml forge is to have a more visible community
<gildor>
palomer: OCaml project on google code is diluted, on the forge you have many fellow OCaml dev that look at your project and can join the project team....
<thelema>
I wonder if the "more visible community" is worth the worse tools. Github just added bug tracking - the only thing it's missing is mailing lists
<gildor>
thelema: feel free to provide a better tool, whenever you can deploy one, I will be happy to host it
<thelema>
I don't know how many people actually browse around *forge sites looking for something to contribute to
<thelema>
They tried to make a good categorization system, but it's just... to rigid?
<thelema>
the categories just don't seem to work for me.
<gildor>
(I am not particularly happy with gforge, but it is better than nothing)
* thelema
appreciates the planet most of all
<gildor>
thelema: at least there is something good in *.ocamlcore.org ;-)
<gildor>
thelema: but really, if you know something better than gforge (and that can scale easily to numerous project) just tell me
<gildor>
thelema: i am really not closed to provide github.ocamlcore.org whenever it is possible
<flux>
is the forge implemented in ocaml? at all?-)
<gildor>
(but I think github is not OSS, though i don't really know=
<gildor>
)
<gildor>
the forge is a pure GForge install, i.e. perl, php and sh
<gildor>
flux: I really like to have an alternative in OCaml that works (TM)
* gildor
really need to go dinner
<gildor>
thelema, flux: you can answer, i will read later
<flux>
so forge is based on some existing solution?
<gildor>
flux: yes, that was the quickiest way to deploy something
<gildor>
flux: We will probably migrate to fusionforge when we will upgrade to Debian lenny
<flux>
yes, I can definitely see that whipping up something like that would be a very big task :)
<gildor>
flux: it is just for bootstrap ;-) one day we will have something better in OCaml
<gildor>
flux: if someone volunteer to create it ;-)
<flux>
gildor, can it be built piece-wise upon the forge functionality?
<flux>
say, replacing a tab at a time :)
<flux>
well, too bad the bad economy isn't showing itself at my work place yet, so I don't have too much spare time :P
<flux>
;)
<palomer>
gildor, my oset project (an ocaml toolkit like thing)
<palomer>
noone uses it or anything
<palomer>
heck, it's not even ready for general consumption
<palomer>
flux, where do you work?
<Alpounet>
palomer, talking about it on Planet OCaml and putting it on Forge@OCamlCore may be of help !
<palomer>
github looks pretty cool
<Alpounet>
gildor, can (/may) we think about multicomponent forge ?
<Alpounet>
(separate ones)
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<palomer>
Alpounet, don't worry, I'll advertise like mad once I think it's usable
<palomer>
which isn't for a little while
<flux>
palomer, AC Security Solutions Finland
<Alpounet>
palomer, keep us updated :)
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<Alpounet>
palomer, what're you working on exactly ?
<gildor>
palomer: github is indeed really shiny and seems great (at least for user interface)
<gildor>
palomer: but you can get the best of the two world by hosting your SCM on github and release, news et al on the forge
<gildor>
palomer: i.e. not using the SCM part of the forge
<Alpounet>
gildor, what about my question ?
<gildor>
flux: GForge is based on third party software (mailman, mediawiki et al)
<gildor>
flux: so you can perfectly try to get rid of each tab (though for certain tab this will be hard
<gildor>
)
<gildor>
Alpounet: multicomponent forge is something talked about in the forge world (like a nice flyer for Bull, Ijust read)
<gildor>
Alpounet: the point is to have the good "backbone"
<gildor>
Alpounet: mostly something that do the message passing between component
<gildor>
Alpounet: in gforge this is "DB as middleware",
<gildor>
Alpounet: you flush DB from time to time and process data extracted from there
<gildor>
Alpounet: e.g. from time to time you dump every SSH key of all user account and install it in home directory
<gildor>
Alpounet: this works (TM) but this is not very time efficient (i.e. you need to at least wait for an hour)
<gildor>
Alpounet: leading impatient user to mail you concerning the "temporary" problem
<gildor>
Alpounet: GForge design is not the best, but it works
<palomer>
Alpounet, patience!
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<Alpounet>
palomer, heh.
<Alpounet>
gildor, ok. A website I know is working on a forge for French developers, there have been many polls in the team to choose one.
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<gildor>
Alpounet: which one has been chosen ?
<Alpounet>
Redmine
<gildor>
hum, already have a look at it
<Alpounet>
It uses RoR
<gildor>
one of the criterion is that it is included in debian
<gildor>
but redmine is not packaged for debian
<gildor>
this make the maintainance harder
<gildor>
(thinking of security concerns)
<Camarade_Tux>
you could step up as a maintainer for it xD
<gildor>
frankly, I don't want to dive into RoR ;-)
<mrvn>
That only improves things for others.
<gildor>
It is too much hype for an OCaml-er
<Camarade_Tux>
I guess it would actually feel easier to write a forge in ocaml ;)
<gildor>
Camarade_Tux: indeed, and I must admit that I will even take the security risk of hosting a young forge in OCaml
<mrvn>
A forge seems to me to be a webserver, a database and some scripts, probably mostly php.
<mrvn>
How do you factor ocaml in there with a good fit?
<gildor>
ocsigen ?
<gildor>
mrvn: e.g. with gforge you end up having maintainer script written in PHP
<gildor>
mrvn: cronjob call php script to do various things (not web oriented)
<gildor>
mrvn: this is just weird
<mrvn>
still no argument for ocaml.
<gildor>
ocaml can act as frontend (ocsigen) and backend (maintainer script)
<gildor>
whereas PHP is strange for backend
<gildor>
but Ruby and Pythin is nice for both
<gildor>
Python
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<gildor>
probably the reason why trac and redmine exist
<gildor>
mrvn: but for now there is gforge and I will use it as long as i don't have a good alternatie
<palomer>
rorrrr!
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<Alpounet>
a forge written in OCaml would really be welcome !
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<Alpounet>
gildor, I guess you know Trac ?
<gildor>
yep
<Alpounet>
what about it ?
<gildor>
but I have too much report about being slow
<Alpounet>
Even if it's not complete enough I guess.
<Alpounet>
Trac's slow ?
<Alpounet>
possible
<gildor>
and complicate to maintain
<gildor>
and mostly targeted to a single project per install
<gildor>
(but maybe things have changed since i have tried)
<Camarade_Tux>
and at least for some time, every single Trac installation I would visit from the internet would fail with a 500: Internal server error
<Alpounet>
ok
<Alpounet>
Forget Trac :-p
* palomer
has never been a fan of trac
<Alpounet>
and what about savannah ?
<gildor>
savannah and gforge share the same base
<gildor>
(savannah = gforge with a different skin)
<Alpounet>
oh
<Alpounet>
ok
<gildor>
(there is a savannah settings for skin into you forge.ocamlcore.org account, if you like it)
<Alpounet>
Nop, mine is the Debian skin
<Alpounet>
\o/
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<xcthulhu>
Hi, I'm an ocaml newbie... coming from Haskell. A stupid question, but is there a way to check the type of a function at the command line?
<xcthulhu>
erm interpreter?
<Alpounet>
write its name
<Alpounet>
simply
<Alpounet>
For example :
<Alpounet>
"List.fold_left;;"
<Alpounet>
et it'll give you the type of List.fold_left, here.
<xcthulhu>
thanks
<xcthulhu>
I don't quite understand how to load modules in the interpreter
<xcthulhu>
Is it just open?
<Camarade_Tux>
#load "yourmodule.cma"
<xcthulhu>
terrific :)
<xcthulhu>
Thank you very much!
<Camarade_Tux>
but some won't be found as they aren't in the current search path (you may give the complete path then)
<Alpounet>
xcthulhu, open will just let you write fold_left instead of List.fold_left, if you've typed in "open List ;;" before
<Alpounet>
To sum up, it lets you omit the given module's name when using stuffs defined in that module.
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<xcthulhu>
Hmm... so when I write '#load "mycsclassmodule.cmo" ;;' I get "The files mycsclassmodule.cmo and /bin/ocaml disagree over interface Pervasives"
<Alpounet>
hmm
<Alpounet>
have you compiled mycsclassmodule with the same OCaml distribution ?