gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.1 http://bit.ly/nNVIVH
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<tommytom_> hello, I search for an empty widget for lablgtk
<hcarty> NaCl, adrien: PLplot allows you to embed plots in lablgtk windows
<hcarty> NaCl, adrien: I think Archimedes has some support for the same thing, but I don't know if the API is available to support it yet
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<NaCl> hcarty: is there a gnuplot-like interactive graph feature?
<adrien> NaCl: btw, what do you want interactivity for?
<NaCl> because it's cool
<adrien> heh
<NaCl> and so I can dynamically rescale
<NaCl> it
<adrien> but which interactivity features?
<adrien> only that?
<NaCl> It would be really awesome if it was gnuplot. :P
<adrien> I made code around drawing areas to be able to have zoom, scrollbars, move, and soon: panning with the mouse
<adrien> so if you find something that uses a drawing area... =)
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<NaCl> adrien: the widgets don't already do that?
<adrien> drawing area? it doesn't
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<hcarty> NaCl: It has some support, but not to the extent that, say, matplotlib does in Python
<hcarty> You can certainly zoom using a drawing area, but if you want to zoom the plot you'll have to do that manually
<NaCl> kk, thanks
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<hcarty> The functions are there to support this - it's even done in one of the examples - but it's not built in and ready to go
<NaCl> ah
<NaCl> I'll look into it if I get the time
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<hcarty> NaCl: Have fun with it, and feel free to ask if you have any questions
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<wieczyk> Hi
<wieczyk> How could I tell ocaml to link application with libtinfo?
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<thelema> before reading your pastebin, I'd guess -cclib
<adrien> wieczyk: but it's during the compilation of ocaml itself, no?
<wieczyk> no, compiling Frama-C
<adrien> ah =)
<adrien> so, somewhere, it needs "-cclib -ltinfo" for linking
<wieczyk> So I quess I should just modify Makefile to force linker, but I don't known ocaml ;/
<wieczyk> Ok I will try
<adrien> well, grep the sources for "ltinfo" first I think
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<wieczyk> Not working ;/
<wieczyk> I am printing command line, it has -ltinfo
<wieczyk> % nm -D /lib/libtinfo.so.5 | grep tgetent
<wieczyk> 0000000000010c50 T tgetent
<adrien> hmmm
<adrien> I think something went wrong during the compilation of ocaml itself
<adrien> because it should pull the lib automatically
<wieczyk> Hard to say, maybe some changes in binutils? Order of arguments for ld was always important.
<adrien> which distribution btw?
<thelema> I think ocaml recently changed the order of some -cc* arguments, maybe frama-c is using `-ccopt -ltinfo` when it should be using `-cclib -ltinfo`
<adrien> did it change? or was it only that the issue was raised?
<wieczyk> Ubuntu.
<thelema> adrien: I think it changed - I became unable to compile some ocaml-cairo after upgrading to 3.12.1
<thelema> (via odb)
<adrien> oh?
<thelema> and one other odb library too, iirc
<adrien> so you mean it *went* wrong? instead of getting better?
<wieczyk> Ok, what should I do? I understand that I cannot fix problem without learning how ocaml build system works. Should I contact with frama-c authors?
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<thelema> wieczyk: yes, the frama-c authors should know about and be able to fix this
<thelema> it looks like the -cclib -ltinfo is there; can you move it to the end?
<wieczyk> I think it can be connected to some changes in binutils.
<wieczyk> I had similar problems with Haskell ;]
<thelema> adrien: yes, cairo used to compile via odb, and now it doesn't.
<wieczyk> I had to put -ltinfo everywhere when I was using -lncurses.
<thelema> wieczyk: can you add -verbose to the command being run there?
<thelema> wieczyk: there = your last pastebin
<adrien> wieczyk: is it possible that maybe ocaml got compiled and since then there have been big changes to your installation?
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<wieczyk> adrien: I am using packages when is it possible, so I don't know.
<wieczyk> w8
<adrien> maybe the ocaml ones haven't been recompiled when they should have
<wieczyk> It is funny, because I have switched to linux from FreeBSD, because I have believed it allow me to focus on more important things than compiling programs ;p
<adrien> afk
<thelema> wieczyk: you're using ubuntu's ocaml?
<wieczyk> yes
<thelema> 3.12.0, right?
<wieczyk> -verbose
<wieczyk> Yes, 3.12.0
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<thelema> yes, the problem is that -ltinfo is in the wrong place on the gcc line - it should be after -lcamlrun
<wieczyk> I think it is connected to DSOChanges
<wieczyk> becouse -lcurses is after ocamlrun
<wieczyk> and curses has ltinfo as dependency
<wieczyk> anyway, Can I force ocaml to put -ltinfo at end of gcc line?
<thelema> am I getting this backwards - -l linking needs to be root (of dep tree) last, right?
<thelema> you can try moving "-cclib -ltinfo" to the end of the ocamlc.opt command
<thelema> but this requires some mucking about in the makefile
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<wieczyk> bin/toplevel.byte$(EXE): $(ALL_BATCH_CMO) $(GEN_BYTE_LIBS) \
<wieczyk> $(PLUGIN_DYN_CMO_LIST)
<wieczyk> $(PRINT_LINKING) $@
<wieczyk> @echo ===================
<wieczyk> @echo $(OCAMLC) $(BLINKFLAGS) -o $@ $(BYTE_LIBS) $(ALL_BATCH_CMO)
<wieczyk> @echo ===================
<wieczyk> $(OCAMLC) -verbose $(BLINKFLAGS) -o $@ $(BYTE_LIBS) $(ALL_BATCH_CMO) -cclib -ltinfo
<wieczyk> I have already put -ltinfo at end ;[
<thelema> can you tweak $(BYTE_LIBS) to not have -ltinfo?
<thelema> (and the associated -cclib)
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<wieczyk> I think we can solve this problem
<wieczyk> by special options for ld, --start-group and --end-group
<wieczyk> They forces ld to search missing symbols in grouped libraries.
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<wieczyk> Can we pass additional options for gcc?
<thelema> yes, that's -ccopt <foo>
<wieczyk> cool
<thelema> where <foo> is the option you want to pass
<wieczyk> eh still not working
<thelema> have you managed to get `-cclib -ltinfo` only at the end of the ocamlc invocation?
<wieczyk> yes
<thelema> and that didn't impact the ordering... hmmm...
<thelema> can you change it to `-ccopt -ltinfo`?
<thelema> (at the end of ocamlc command)
<wieczyk> $(OCAMLC) -verbose $(BLINKFLAGS) -o $@ $(BYTE_LIBS) $(ALL_BATCH_CMO) -ccopt -Wl,--start-group -ccopt -Wl,-ltinfo -ccopt -Wl,--end-group
<wieczyk> I thought that groping will help, but probably I do not understand this option correctly
<thelema> there's still a -ltinfo in $BYTE_LIBS, no?
<wieczyk> No, -ltinfo is only in line above.
<wieczyk> Maybe i should write some ld.sh which always put -ltinfo at end? :D
<thelema> what is the value of $BYTE_LIBS?
<wieczyk> # Libraries used in Frama-C
<wieczyk> BYTE_LIBS = nums.cma unix.cma bigarray.cma str.cma dynlink.cma \ $(GEN_BYTE_LIBS)
<wieczyk> OPT_LIBS = nums.cmxa unix.cmxa bigarray.cmxa str.cmxa
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<thelema> GEN_BYTE_LIBS?
<wieczyk> w8
<wieczyk> # Libraries generated by Frama-C
<wieczyk> GEN_BYTE_LIBS=
<wieczyk> GEN_OPT_LIBS=
<wieczyk> ;]
<thelema> ... well then...
<wieczyk> Can we write some stupid library
<wieczyk> and add there
<wieczyk> ?
<wieczyk> Maybe if we would put ltinfo as library dependencies then we would force ocaml to put -ltinfo after -locamlrun
<wieczyk> like, i guess, dynlink.cma forced ocaml to pud -ldl after -locamlrun
<wieczyk> ?
<wieczyk> put*
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<thelema> hmm, it looks like this is just a big in ocaml exposed by the new binutils behavior - the libraries come out backwards.
<wieczyk> ;]
<thelema> can you add `-ccopt -Wl,--as-needed`?
<wieczyk> It is amazing for me that people can change binutils without worrying about whole world, I need to hire some ninjas.
<wieczyk> w8
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<wieczyk> $(OCAMLC) -verbose $(BLINKFLAGS) -o $@ $(BYTE_LIBS) $(ALL_BATCH_CMO) -ccopt -Wl,--as-needed -cclib -ltinfo
<wieczyk> ?
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<thelema> yes
<wieczyk> not working :)
<thelema> :(
<wieczyk> + gcc -o 'bin/toplevel.byte' '-Lsrc/misc' '-Lsrc/ai' '-Lsrc/memory_state' '-Lsrc/toplevel' '-Lsrc/slicing_types' '-Lsrc/pdg_types' '-Lsrc/kernel' '-Lsrc/logic' '-Lsrc/lib' '-Lsrc/type' '-Lsrc/project' '-Lsrc/buckx' '-Lsrc/gui' '-Lexternal' '-Lcil/src' '-Lcil/src/ext' '-Lcil/src/frontc' '-Lcil/src/logic' '-Lcil/ocamlutil' '-Llib/plugins' '-Llib' '-L/usr/lib/ocaml' -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-E '/tmp/camlobj18f425.c' '-lcamlstr' '-lbigarray' '-lunix' '-lnums' 'src/bu
<wieczyk> What about idea with dummy library?
<wieczyk> Could I ask how to do tinfo.cma?
<thelema> I dunno what you'd get...
<thelema> .cmo files have their own list of libraries that need linking
<thelema> c libraries.
<thelema> (why they can't have a list of ocaml libraries, I don't know...)
<thelema> but anyway, you can build a tinfo.cma by: ocamlc -c tinfo.ml -o tinfo.cmo -cclib -ltinfo; ocamlc -a tinfo.cmo tinfo.cma
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<wieczyk> becouse -lcurses is after ocamlrun
<wieczyk> 18:19 < thelema> (why they can't have a list of ocaml libraries, I don't know...)
<wieczyk> sorry
<wieczyk> my mouse is crazy
<thelema> n/p
<wieczyk> Ok, where should i put tinfo.cma?
<thelema> If you want its libraries linked in first, you may have to put it either first or last in the list of .cmos
<thelema> you don't really need the .cma - just the tinfo.cmo should suffice
<wieczyk> ok
<Drakken> Hello camlrs.
<thelema> Drakken: hi
<Drakken> Someone responded to my support request about archimedes:
<Drakken> I don't really understand the comment any more than I understand the compiler messages.
<wieczyk> --
<wieczyk> + gcc -o 'bin/toplevel.byte' '-Lsrc/misc' '-Lsrc/ai' '-Lsrc/memory_state' '-Lsrc/toplevel' '-Lsrc/slicing_types' '-Lsrc/pdg_types' '-Lsrc/kernel' '-Lsrc/logic' '-Lsrc/lib' '-Lsrc/type' '-Lsrc/project' '-Lsrc/buckx' '-Lsrc/gui' '-Lexternal' '-Lcil/src' '-Lcil/src/ext' '-Lcil/src/frontc' '-Lcil/src/logic' '-Lcil/ocamlutil' '-Llib/plugins' '-Llib' '-L/usr/lib/ocaml' -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-E '/tmp/camlobje2cfde.c' '-lcamlstr' '-lbigarray' '-lunix' '-lnums' 'src/bu
<wieczyk> --
<wieczyk> thelema: not working, thanks for your time
<wieczyk> thelema: i am going to pay ninjas.
<thelema> wieczyk: ok, good luck.
<hcarty> Drakken: He is asking if the compiled C stubs (*.so for the ocamlc case) are found by findlib/ocamlc
<thelema> Drakken: first comment has typo: "where do the stublibs go" - explain your ld.conf and location of stublibs
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<wieczyk> thelema: I have solved problem ;]
<wieczyk> thelema: I have added -cclib -lcamlrun -cclib -ltinfo, It forces ocaml to put '-lcamlrun -ltinfo -lcamlrun -dl ...', now I have correct order. I know, it is ugly, but good as temporary solution.
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<thelema> wieczyk: wow, good thinking. I should have come up with that.
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<roha> ive got a newbie question about the eclipse plugin OcaIDE together with Batteries:
<roha> I have an ml file "demo.ml" with:
<roha> open Batteries_uni (* Non-threaded version *)
<roha> ;;
<roha> let main () =
<roha> (1--999) (* the enum that counts from 1 to 999 *)
<roha> |> Enum.filter (fun i -> i mod 3 = 0 or i mod 5 = 0)
<roha> |> Enum.reduce (+) (* add all remaining values together *)
<roha> |> Int.print stdout
<roha> ;;
<roha> let () = main ()
<_habnabit> don't paste to the channel
<roha> k sorry
<thelema> roha: I recognize the example code. What's the error?
<roha> if I load it into toplevel, it says: Error: Reference to undefined global `Batteries_uni'
<thelema> roha: if you have findlib, do #use "topfind";; #require "batteries";;
<roha> i can run to byte file directly via "run as ocaml executable" though
<roha> ok thanks ill try that right away
<thelema> best solution is to copy the batteries ocamlinit file to ~/.ocamlinit, so batteries is autoloaded by the toplevel
<thelema> gotta go, back later
<roha> kk cu and thanks
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<roha> it seems ocaide can't generate an interface file if i put "open Batteries_uni" at the top of the source file
<roha> if write the mli file manually, everything works fine. strange
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<beginner> Hai, I have a question to ask - I have some experiences programming in languages like C and Python
<hcarty> roha: ocaide is reasonably nice, but it is lacking in some tool integration.
<beginner> and planning to learn more about "computer science" and algorithms
<beginner> I have always been interested in writing a compiler
<hcarty> roha: Including some issues (last I looked) trouble when using ocamlfind to properly infer interfaces
<beginner> will ocaml be a good language to learn algorithms
<beginner> it will be my first functional language
<zorun> beginner: I would tend to say algorithms are mostly language-independent
<zorun> but if you're up to try a functional language, yes, OCaml is a good choice
<adrien> but ocaml makes it easy to concentrate on the algorithms and not the lower-level tasks ;-)
<zorun> true :)
<adrien> and the algorithms are usually expressed in a very clear and concise way
<Anarchos> beginner as ocaml can be used in functional, imperative and object ways, yes it is a good language to learn algorithms in these three paradigms
<reynir> Most texts on algorithms that I've read use an imperative 'language'
<beginner> I know there are quite a few books on ocaml out there, but any recommendation on which one is the most friendly to beginners?
<beginner> Anyway, yeah - I have bought some algo books that use Java
<reynir> Think Ocaml is probably not a bad choice
<beginner> the problem is, there are too many of the language elements that distracted me from my original goal
<roha> somebody uses OcaIDE together with batteries here?
<reynir> I used this book when I had a course on algorithms: http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?tid=8570&ttype=2
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<reynir> It doesn't use a real language
<beginner> I have that book and dozen others and preparing to lock myself at home for a few weeks
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<beginner> went on shopping spree, but couldn't find a good book on ocaml
<beginner> anyway, thank you so much for you help, definitely gonna help decide between haskell and ocaml. Thanks!
<hcarty> beginner: The only good OCaml books in English are available online
<roha> theres a introduction to ocaml online
<roha> sec
<hcarty> beginner: With the possible exception of OCaml for Scientists, which I haven't read but I have heard good things about
<roha> the link is also on the author of the book, so i think its legal to distribute this
<roha> it's kind of a pity that there isn't just one ocaml standard
<roha> at least for me as a total noob its kind of confusing :)
<beginner> anyway, anybody here is running ocaml on mac?
<hcarty> roha: There is only one compiler, so that's sort of like having one standard :-)
<roha> maybe its useful to you as well
<roha> hcarty: true
<beginner> ah
<beginner> thank you for the link!
<beginner> definitely gonna help =)
<roha> hmm, i just need to get ocaide's auto assist work with batteries
<roha> your welcome :)
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<reynir> roha: ugh, your font is too small, and when I press ctrl_+ it doesn't break the lines properly :(
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<reynir> rage quit :-)
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<beginner> hai
<beginner> let x = 1 in
<beginner> let y = 1 in y + x;;
<beginner> let z = y + x;;
<beginner> I thought x and you should be local
<beginner> *x and y
<beginner> so how come z is able to access the value of x and y?
<beginner> so for my noobish question
<beginner> *sorry
<mfp> beginner: they are --- you have probably other x and y values in your environment which were defined earlier
<beginner> mfp: I did some testing earlier by defining x and y globally and then locally
<beginner> let x = 4;;
<beginner> let y = 4;;
<beginner> let x = 1 in
<beginner> let y = 1 in y + x;;
<beginner> let z = y + x;;
<beginner> the one above work correctly
<beginner> let me try one more time
<mfp> note that there's no way to "clear the environment", apart from restarting the toplevel
<beginner> ah
<beginner> that makes sense
<beginner> alright now I get the unbound error
<beginner> thanks mfp
<mfp> np
<mfp> also note that's it's 01:20 CET, so don't worry if the channel gets quiet ;)
<mfp> *that
<beginner> roger that :)
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<beginner> is there anyway I can make the intepreter print the output without being in the toplevel environment?
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<beginner> erm, I have just taken a look at the help, don't seem to be any option for that
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