gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.1 http://bit.ly/nNVIVH
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<adrien> sometimes I wish there was a simple way to tell OCaml that a module is pure (and have the purity checked)
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<sgnb> adrien: ocamlobjinfo $cmo | grep unsafe
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<adrien> sgnb: I'm more after detecting uses of mutability in some modules
<adrien> and what are the "unsafe" features for ocamlobjinfo?
<sgnb> external, -rectypes
<sgnb> maybe others
<sgnb> but probably not mutability
<adrien> ah, right: I had tried -unsafe and the Obj module but it didn't trigger anything; thanks
<adrien> I guess that grepping for ':=', <-, and a few other things would already be enough in my case
<adrien> or pollute the namespace by opening a module which defines 'module Array = struct end'
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<adrien> I love the Obj module: it makes it possible to have some funny bug-hundint
<adrien> hunting*
<thelema> yup, the obj module forces you to think hard about "what's really going on"
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<edwin> you can mutate strings too
<edwin> so check for String.set too
<edwin> and some 3rd party libs mutate strings too, for example Cryptokit has a function to wipe a string. if used wrongly then yu wonder why you get the wrong results :)
<edwin> it would be useful to have a tool that checks for pureness, especially for ocamldoc
<edwin> although one would hope that people manually document mutation behaviour on functions that mutate their arguments...
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<gildor> thelema: ping
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<thelema> gildor: pong
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<gildor> thelema: I would like to be sure to answer the right topic on caml-list
<gildor> ;-)
<gildor> (so many things have been written in the past weeks)
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<thelema> yes, there was a *large* upswing in traffic
<thelema> one sec while I find the thread
<thelema> "how could the community help with Oasis-DB; towards a CPAN for OCaml?" by gasche is one point that your voice is missing
<gildor> ok
<gildor> headache coming back, so not sure to do it right now, but will do
<thelema> no rush.
<thelema> I'm kind of curious if oasis-db is ready enough for wide use
<thelema> i.e lots of uploads
<gildor> thelema: there is no real bugs
<gildor> but the current website is LAGGING behind the dev version standing on my PC
<gildor> eg ability to derive a package (you change important _oasis field on the server and it generates a new tarball)
<gildor> maybe I can just remove the "test" stuff of the website and release a v1
<thelema> gildor: it wouldn't hurt, if you get time. A requested feature was the ability to download a specific version of a package from odb - would that be easy on the server side?
<gildor> thelema: I think it should be quite easy to do, all the thing you need is an extra call to know the name of the tarball
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<thelema> gildor: I was thinking of being able to query an info file with a version - "/dev/odb/versioned/batteries/1.4.1" gets the info file for batteries 1.4.1, with a link to its tarball, etc.
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<gildor> thelema: will talk about that latter i propose
<thelema> gildor: ok, get well soon.
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<thelema> gildor: another probably simple request - having version numbers in the "what's available from oasis-db" 00list text.
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<thelema> hcarty: let first_ok f xs = List.enum xs |> map (Result.catch f) |> Enum.find Result.is_ok |> Result.get
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<oriba> is there something like "Lambda Calculus for Dummies" or at least something like "Lambda Calculus for not-completely-Dummies"?
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<thelema> oriba: why do you want to learn lambda calculus?
<oriba> I think it's useful to understand a lot of "tricks" of functional programming
<oriba> there are some transformations that can be used, and often it is referred to lambda calculus then
<thelema> really? I'm no expert at lambda calculus, but I'd say I've got a lot of FP tricks
<oriba> I want to get more systematic view on these topics
<oriba> hmhh
<oriba> don't know what you have in mind with fp tricks
<thelema> wikipedia has a nice list of tutorials: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus#External_links
<oriba> ok
<oriba> but I'm sceptical they will be helpful ;)
<oriba> from time to time I looked up that topic
<thelema> just use FP languages a lot, the tricks don't really need any formal background to understand.
<thelema> yes, people who make up the tricks often use LC terminology, but that's just their view of the world
<oriba> hmhh, there are some of these so called "reductions" which are not obvious to me
<oriba> but doesn#t the lambda calculus help in understanding? I would think, it could help
<oriba> (my impression)
<thelema> maybe for me, lambda calculus is just common sense when thinking about functions in programming languages
<thelema> and it has fancy names for not-really complicated things
<oriba> so, you know lambda calculus already..?!
<oriba> aha, hehe
<thelema> no, I've just heard lots of the names
<oriba> aha
<oriba> ok, maybe some things look much bigger, when using lambda calculus (sounds better ;-) and more intelligent)
<thelema> and looking on wikipedia, the definitions look scary but decoding them with my math background, they're not that bad.
<thelema> yes, there's probably a bunch of that.
<oriba> but I also had once read some papers on recursion and functions that call their inverse functions (or something else, don#ät rmemeber in detail) and it was talked abiut fixpoint and lambda calculus
<oriba> and I didn#t gradsepd it
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<oriba> with lambda alculus, I think even some of the hard stuff can be understood, and explained
<oriba> ...at the moment I'm rewriting some code from one of my tools
<oriba> and I think some stuff would maybe be more clear with more theory
<oriba> (DSL implementation)
<oriba> or maybe it just needs more practise
<thelema> more practice doesn't hurt. Time for me to go practice Aikido. cheers
<oriba> more theory also does not hurt ;)
<oriba> have fun .
<oriba> ciao
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