gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.1 http://bit.ly/nNVIVH
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<gnuvince> Is it possible for a function to accept any value that implements a signature?
<_habnabit> gnuvince, any signature? a particular signature?
<_habnabit> gnuvince, I don't know what you're asking
<gnuvince> OK, here's a trivial example, I want to implement a half_cardinal function that works for all Sets. I'd like to say something like let half_cardinal s = Set.cardinal s / 2, however that doesn't work because Set.cardinal is an unbound value.
<_habnabit> no, this isn't haskell. there aren't typeclasses.
<_habnabit> you could make a functor that takes any set, if you're talking about the stdlib Set.
<_habnabit> if you want interface-based polymorphism, there's objects, though.
<_habnabit> but those are different.
<gnuvince> Is it possible to "augment" an already existing functor?
<gnuvince> Take Set.Make and add a definition for my half_cardinal?
<_habnabit> well, sure, you can make your own functor that takes the result of Set.Make and gives you a new module with that definition added.
<gnuvince> That would work
<gnuvince> Thank you very much :)
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<hcarty> gnuvince: First class modules also allow you to pass around modules, modify them, etc. You can do some similar things to what OCaml's objects allow.
<companion_cube> first class modules are mutable? oO
<hcarty> companion_cube: Not mutable, but you can return something different than what was passed in
<companion_cube> ok, like a map update
<hcarty> Yep
<hcarty> Functional update
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<vivanov> Unix.chdir gives me an error -- why might that be ?
<_habnabit> well, did you read the error message?
<vivanov> oh -- i see -- smth to do with permissions
<vivanov> _habnabit: Unix.Unix_error (1 , "chdir" , "/foo")
<vivanov> what permissions to use when creating a directory ?
<_habnabit> well, that doesn't mean much, because I don't know what errno 1 means on your machine
<_habnabit> also it's very rarely that you actually want to call chdir. what are you trying to do here?
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<vivanov> create directory, create files in it and write
<_habnabit> okay, so, where does chdir come in there
<vivanov> Unix.mkdir
<vivanov> Unix.chdir as cd
<vivanov> i better use Unix.execv "cd"?
<_habnabit> ... no? that would most definitely not do what you want at all
<_habnabit> why do you think you have to call chdir?
<vivanov> found in api
<tomprince> The question is, why do you need to change the current directory?
<vivanov> ok so i should use Unix.execv "cd" ?
<vivanov> hmmmmmm
<vivanov> youre rigth
<vivanov> :)
<vivanov> thx a lot
<_habnabit> vivanov, do you know what execv does?
<vivanov> same as executing a command in shell
<tomprince> No.
<_habnabit> well, first off, that's wrong.
<_habnabit> but even if it were true, that wouldn't do anything useful for you because you'd spawn a shell, it would call chdir(2), and then it would exit.
<vivanov> ok -- ill do without it
<tomprince> Only changing the current directory in the shell, (which then exits). The current directory doesn't propogate from a child to a parent.
<tomprince> You can see this by running bash, cd'ing, and then exiting.
<_habnabit> calling chdir(2) is only acceptable in one case: when called between fork and execv
<vivanov> ok -- ic thx
<vivanov> but still Unix.mkdir to create a directory is fine i guess
<_habnabit> yes.
<vivanov> perfect thx
<vivanov> now i get error when opening the direcotry i created
<_habnabit> 'opening' ?
<vivanov> i use 0o66 permissions
<vivanov> Unix.err (1, "open" ,
<_habnabit> are you calling opendir?
<vivanov> no
<_habnabit> ... why are you calling open on a directory?
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<vivanov> just openfile "/home/vivanov/foo/file"
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<_habnabit> also you still haven't told me what errno 1 means on your computer
<vivanov> but i dont know that
<vivanov> cant even cd to that directory i created
<_habnabit> python -c 'import os; print os.strerror(1)'
<vivanov> operation not permitted
<_habnabit> okay so probably EPERM
<_habnabit> also you probably meant 0o755 instead of 0o66 for the directory
<_habnabit> you should probably just pastebin your code
<vivanov> okok ill try 1 sec
<vivanov> _habnabit: :) :) works now thx
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<adrien> I'm still sometimes lost in lablgtk2/gtk+2 while looking for specific widgets or concepts; if you have ideas on how to improve that (in particular in lablgtk2), I'm all ears
<adrien> argh: I needed GtkPack.SizeGroup; why doesn't it have something in GPack directly? =/
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<Drakken> Is there a preferred way to install Ocamlnet? Apparently it's part of GODI, but I'm having trouble getting that installed.
<adrien> it's not part of godi but it's used by godi iirc
<adrien> so unless you're already using godi, you shouldn't get it from there
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<Drakken> adrient right, by "part of" I meant "bundled with".
<Drakken> But it doesn't seem to be supported by findlib or odb.
<adrien> but are you using godi as your package manager?
<Drakken> No, I can't even get it installed.
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<adrien> ok, and do you _want_ godi for its package management?
<Drakken> I don't know. I've seen warnings about installing libraries manually, so I thought I would ask here before doing that.
<Drakken> I just want to use Ocamlnet.
<adrien> yes, installing packages by hand is usually not a very good idea because while this step is easy, maintaining the installed packets by hand quickly gets very annoying
<adrien> are you using linux? which distribution are you using then?
<flux> if you need ocamlnet, just install it, worry about maintainence later ;).
<flux> (but if it's part of your linux distribution, installing it that way is going to be easier of course)
<adrien> but it'll have to be recompiled once one of the library it depends on changes
<flux> so, not very often
<flux> after doing that a few times perhaps some distribution-oriented approach stards to sound more appealing
<zorun> AFAICT, ocamlnet is supported by findlib
<Drakken> adrien my distro is called "Zenwalk". It's a lightweight Slack derivative.
<zorun> ooh, Zenwalk
<zorun> I haven't used that for so long :)
<zorun> is it still active?
<adrien> Drakken: can you use slackbuilds?
<Drakken> zorun ha ha I'm using an old P4 with a 17in crt monitor :)
<adrien> also, ocamlnet can depend on: pcre, cryptokit, lablgtk1, lablgtk2, ocaml-ssl, ocamlzip and probably tcl from the ocaml distribution
<flux> I would think some of those dependencies are optional
<adrien> Drakken: forget about slackbuilds, they don't handle automatic recompilation of depending libs (well, I might create a small script to do it) and ocamlnet.SlackBuild won't appear before a few days
<adrien> godi is the best way I think
<adrien> flux: all but pcre are
<flux> adrien, well, pcre is a great idea to install anyway
<adrien> hmmm, pcre might be the C lib, not the ocaml binding
<adrien> and it has a bundled version
<flux> my debian package for ocamlnet depends on the perl pcre package
<adrien> but more generally, even if it could be fine for ocamlnet only, I guess that Drakken has other libs too
<adrien> Drakken: what's the issue when installing godi?
<flux> GODI indeed might be the best solution for Drakken, but if it turns out to be problematic to install it, I wouldn't waste time on that problem.
<flux> later, with perhaps better understanding of how the ocaml environment works, he can retry.
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<adrien> it should work without issue actually; I'm quite surprised it doesn't
<flux> yeah, I've only had (small) trouble with GODI on Solaris
<adrien> I've been using godi on slackware for years no
<flux> but then again I've otherwise used it only on Ubuntu & Debian
<adrien> typically, the godi issues are gnuisms
<flux> what GODI in my opinion makes difficult is fixing the issues
<flux> you need to, for example, update the source package and then the checksum..
<flux> or perhaps there's an easier way
<adrien> it extracts the source package and keeps it extracted on disk
<adrien> or does it?
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<adrien> actually I can't remember how I usually fix such things :P
<flux> it does something like that, but it's been years I last touched Godi
<Drakken> adrien about installing godi:
<adrien> ah, I remember: it extracts the godi package on disk and keeps it but it doesn't keep the source package of the library/app
<adrien> so it depends on where your issue is
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<adrien> but for source stuff, it'd be better if it could be made to get everything for source control (with a dvcs and a local repo, it works very well)
<flux> drakken, so what does mkdir /opt say for you?
<adrien> Drakken: ah, ok, it's an issue that should be fixed now: simple rm the whole godi-rocketboost folder and starts from fresh
<Drakken> adrien as root?
<Drakken> the godi homepage says to install as a regular user
<adrien> yeah
<adrien> dependson where you install
<adrien> if you install to /opt/ocaml, you'll need the corresponding rights
<Drakken> I don't care where it installs. I've just been using defaults.
<adrien> you could install it in your $HOME then
<adrien> like $HOME/ocaml or wherever you want
<Drakken> so do we prefer godi over manual installation (of ocamlnet) if possible?
<adrien> basically, the godi issue was that when it detected an incomplete installation (since it leaves some files in the godi-rocketboost folder), it tried to cleanup but the corresponding script didn't exist
<adrien> Drakken: yes, definitely imho
<adrien> Drakken: and in particular: are you going to have other libraries?
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<Drakken> adrien I think I need yojson, but it looks like that's also in godi.
<adrien> yeah, it's in godi too
<adrien> yojson depends on easy-format, biniou and cppo (which is a tool, not a lib) which are all in godi (but I don't understand why it depends on biniou)
<adrien> ah, easy-format is meant to offer a simpler interface than the stdlib Format module; I should try it =)
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<Drakken> Wow. It took like 20 minutes to install godi-tools.
<adrien> yeah, old machines; ocamnet is quite big but the other packages will probably build quite quickly
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<f[x]> thomasga, by any chance, do you have the patch from PR#4888 for 3.11?
<f[x]> and why the is_tail_native_heuristic got removed?
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<thomasga> f[x]: I don't have it for 3.11, but I guess it should not be very difficult to port. the is_tail_native_heuristic is used only for generating .annot file with information on tail-recursion, but it doesn't work very well so it was simpler to me to remove it. I can put it back if you think it's useful
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<f[x]> thomasga, ok, maybe I will try to massage it for 3.11 or wait till I switch here to 3.12
<f[x]> concerning tail_rec - I don't think that removing upstream code will increase chances for accepting this patch :)
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<thomasga> sure :-)
<thomasga> will put it back
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<adrien> Drakken: everything with godi is running fine?
<Drakken> It's installed.
<Drakken> I'm not ready to compile yet, so I don't need the libs right away.
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<Drakken> adrien i.e. I haven't checked yet.
<adrien> ok
<adrien> you should tell if to install a bit before needing it as it'll take some time
<Drakken> no hurry.
<adrien> also, if godi_console is unbearably slow on your computer, it can be improved (ask me for the details)
<Drakken> okee doke. right now I'm working on a kindergarten-level parser for a config file with a sort of cobol-ish grammar.
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<adrien> gildor: instead of doing a "file release" in the web interface of the forge, is it possibly to do it over ssh?
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<Kakadu> I have some problems with pattern matching (( http://paste.in.ua/3515/
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<hcarty> Kakadu: If you use camlp4 you'll get a more informative error
<hcarty> Error: Parse error: "->" expected after [opt_when_expr] (in [match_case0])
<hcarty> Kakadu: It looks like you can combine multiple "when" cases
<thelema_> Kakadu: only one 'when clause' per ->, and it must be right before the arrow
<Kakadu> I understand but is it difficult to support my syntax?
<hcarty> thelema_: I'm working on a simple writeup for getting started with OCaml + odb + oasis from source on Linux
<Kakadu> may there are some some unobvious ambiguities in grammar using multiple when's
<thelema_> Kakadu: You could write a syntax extension in camlp4
<hcarty> thelema_: Nothing particularly new, but a (hopefully) simple aggregation of explicit steps to build and install those items under $HOME. Do you think that odb's wiki would be a reasonable place to put this?
<thelema_> Kakadu: the current semantics wcould be extended, no problem
<thelema_> hcarty: there and as many other places as you can think
<Kakadu> thelema_: thanks
<hcarty> thelema_: Once it's received a few informal comments I plan to send it to the list and possible bundle into a bash script
<thelema_> hcarty: I'll give it a once-over when you're done.
<hcarty> s/possible/possibly/
<hcarty> thelema_: Thank you. I have it complete through OCaml and findlib. I think that should be most of it - odb is easy to get going, and oasis is easy to install once odb is in place.
<thelema_> yes, quite. ocaml+findlib is the hardest part - odb automates the rest pretty well
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<gildor> adrien: file release over ssh -> I don't think so
<adrien> gildor: ok, thanks
<thelema_> gildor: how high on your todo list is removing the warnings from the oasis-db site?
<thelema_> gildor: and is there any way I can provide a patch to the upload page to give directions on what to upload?
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<roconnor> how do I format nested match statements without ending up way over to the right?
<roconnor> (or do I not use nested match statements?)
<thelema_> roconnor: match over a pair?
<_habnabit> roconnor, ^ that, but do you have an example?
<_habnabit> sounds like something odd you're doing if you "end up way over to the right"
<roconnor> okay, let me paste some of my horrible code and get some tips
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<_habnabit> yikes. that's what I expected
<roconnor> heh
<roconnor> sorry
<_habnabit> newline after ->
<roconnor> how much would you indent after the newline?
<roconnor> would you newline after -> in all branches?
<_habnabit> one sec
<roconnor> thanks
<thelema_> roconnor: anytime the match case doesn't fit on the line after the ->, I put a ->\n
<roconnor> thelema_: gotcha
<thelema_> example: http://pastebin.com/Ks1UA9p4
<_habnabit> http://paste.pound-python.org/show/15614/ here's (roughly) what I'd do
<_habnabit> there's way too many ^s; I'd have a lot of sprintfs in there
<thelema_> maybe move some of the qs submatches into their own functions
<_habnabit> and if 'in' doesn't fit on the same line as the corresponding 'let' or 'and', it goes on its own line
<_habnabit> so yeah this isn't finished but you get the idea
<thelema_> and probably some liberal use of %a in printfs would clean things up lots.
<roconnor> what is %a?
<roconnor> is printf type-safe?
<roconnor> *sprintf
<thelema_> yes, sprintf is type-safe
<_habnabit> of course it is
<thelema_> %a is ... well, delegation to another printing function
<roconnor> _habnabit: how can it be type-safe
<_habnabit> the % formatters are parsed at compile-time
<roconnor> fancy
<_habnabit> any half-decent C linter will do this for you anyway
<tomprince> gcc and clang will even do it at compile time, these days.
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<csabahruska> hi
<roconnor> thanks everyone
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<csabahruska> Can I ask an ML related question?
<_habnabit> I dunno; can you?
<thelema_> so your binder match case could be written something like: | Binder (q,VarSpec (vl,ty),ex) -> sprintf " %a %a ..." print_q q (List.print Vl.print vl) vl ...
<csabahruska> Why overloading is not supported?
<thelema_> csabahruska: type inference doesn't mix well with overloading
<roconnor> thelema_: %a confuses me
<csabahruska> is there any variant of ml what supports overloadnig with type system extension?
<thelema_> roconnor: %a takes two arguments, the printing function and the value to be printed
<adrien> gcaml?
<thelema_> csabahruska: F#?
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<csabahruska> where can i find gcaml?
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<adrien> some japanese university website iirc; by Jun Furuse
<thelema_> 1st google result for "gcaml"
<csabahruska> ok, sorry i didn't recognise it
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<csabahruska> thanks
<csabahruska> bye
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<adrien> rrrr, I hope we soon get rid of the make-based build system in lablgtk
<adrien> someone is reliably getting an error about a .cmi file being corrupt while building a slackware package
<adrien> adding "sleep 60" after "make" and "make install DESTDIR=..." fixes the issue however
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<hcarty> thelema_: In theory the "getting started" writeup is ready to go, although I would like to wrap it up with a very simple example using oasis + Batteries.
<adrien> thelema_: btw, when you have time, can you send me your minimal _oasis at adrien -at- notk dot org
<adrien> (hoping this mail address doesn't start getting a huge amount of spam yet ='( ))
<hcarty> thelema_: However, oasis doesn't install cleanly from odb at this point, at least not when using the default testing repository
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<hcarty> thelema_: Ah, I see... it looks like oasis is installable when using --stable
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<thelema> hcarty: maybe I should bump odb up to default to stable
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<roconnor> so where is the pefered place to put "in", at the end of a line or at the beginning of a line?
<_habnabit> 22:29:58 < _habnabit> and if 'in' doesn't fit on the same line as the corresponding 'let' or 'and', it goes on its own line
<_habnabit> from earlier
<roconnor> it's own line!
<roconnor> that will really space things out
<_habnabit> in my code it doesn't tend to
<_habnabit> it's much more readable this way, I find
<roconnor> Is somthing wrong if I have lots of consecuative lets?
<_habnabit> probably not
<roconnor> okay, i'm starting to get the hang of this