gildor changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 3.12.1 http://bit.ly/nNVIVH
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<Drakken> thelema are you around?
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<Drakken> thelema I have a Q about odb whenever you have some time.
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<thelema> Drakken: go ahead
<Drakken> thelema good morning.
<thelema> good morning, drakken
<Drakken> Someone in the archimedes team said they fixed a bug that supposedly caused the prob I was having.
<Drakken> The fix isn't on oasis-db yet
<Drakken> so I guess I need to download bzr, checkout the new project tree, and install
<Drakken> without messing up whatever state info odb keeps.
<thelema> odb keeps no state info.
<thelema> go ahead, download, install whatever you like
<Drakken> So my questions are (a) do you know of any easier options, and (b) if not, what do I have to do to install from the bzr project.
<thelema> b) bzr branch <url>
<Drakken> oh, and any odb-specific installation details
<Drakken> that's to check the project out. what about installing?
* thelema looks at what build system it uses
<thelema> ok, it uses oasis.
<thelema> ocaml setup.ml -configure
<thelema> ocaml setup.ml -build
<thelema> to install to ~/.odb/lib, do `OCAMLFIND_DESTDIR=~/.odb/lib ocaml setup.ml -install`
<Drakken> and the project knows about stublibs? Do I need to install cairo2 first? I don't know what they changed.
<thelema> cairo2 should be already installed by odb - you don't need to install it.
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<Drakken> assuming the bugfix was in archimedes and not cairo
<thelema> the project doesn't know about stublibs, but ocamlfind knows about them and will put the right files in the right places
<Drakken> I guess the guy said it was a new version of archimedes
<thelema> 0.4.11?
<Drakken> right
<thelema> already in oasis-db
<thelema> odb --force archimedes
<Drakken> dang it
<Drakken> I knew I should have checked first. I looked last night & it wasn't there.
<thelema> yup, just yesterday I updated.
<thelema> and it was there in unstable before that.
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<hcarty> thelema: A thought for mixing odb and GODI - it may be worth finding a way to create a GODI package for odb. If the dependencies and build targets are setup properly in GODI, in theory this could be used to at least odb-based package rebuilds to GODI-based OCaml compiler upgrades.
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<thelema> hcarty: on gildor's todo list is generating godi packages from oasis
<thelema> oh, but you think I should put odb into godi...
<thelema> hmmm...
<thelema> godi can rebuils everything on a compiler upgrade
<thelema> I don't see much use for odb on a computer with a functioning godi
<thelema> Drakken: did everything work out with archimedes 0.4.11?
<hcarty> thelema: Once oasis supports generating GODI packages then that may be true
<hcarty> odb is still a much lower barrier to entry than GODI
<thelema> yes, that's my reason for it.
<hcarty> Extending GODI to support oasis-db/oasis-db to act as a GODI repository is another and possibly better option...
<Drakken> thelema no, I got the same error. The dev said repost the bug report, so I just did that.
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<oriba> how can I control the output signature of a functor by it's input signature? Or other forumlated: how to restrict the type 'a t of Map for example, by specifying it at the input of a functor?
<oriba> (does this make any sense to oyu?)
<oriba> you
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<thelema> oriba: module Foo (X : sig type key type value end) : Foo where type t = X.value Map.t = struct ... end
<thelema> oriba: completely untested, but probably something like this.
<oriba> hmhhh
<oriba> syntax error...
<oriba> defining a module tpye inside a functior also seems not to work
<oriba> maybe somehow 'a empty used in a module can be used to construct a limitation of type?
<oriba> wrapping a type restricted funtion around the call of Map?
<thelema> well, the second "Foo" should be a module type, module type Foo_t = sig type t = int Map.t ... end
<oriba> thelema, and "where" should be "with" ... that was the reason of the syntax error :)
<oriba> Also I want to have the type restriction as input
<oriba> maybe I need a functor which creates a module that is input for another functior
<oriba> (higher order functor?)
<thelema> oriba: no problem.
<oriba> but does it goes without that?
<oriba> need to explore your code in more detail
<oriba> maybe that can be used?
<oriba> I normally use a differnt syntax for fucntors
<oriba> need to rebuild my thinking ;)
<oriba> is there an advantage on the syntax you used here?
<oriba> instead of module Foo = Functor (... : ... ) -> struct ...end ?
<oriba> ..or just a matter of taste?
<thelema> it's just shorter to type on IRC
<thelema> I usually don't use the functor keyword
<oriba> aha
<thelema> just like I don't usually use the 'fun' keyword for functions
<thelema> let foo = fun x -> ...
<oriba> ah
<thelema> vs. let foo x = ...
<oriba> aha here I also use the latter one
<oriba> but in functors I somehow find it more easy to understand what I'm doing, when using the keyword functor...
<oriba> also looks nice in the code, if it contains functors explicitly ;)
<oriba> but thx for the code I will try awound with it soon
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<gildor> hcarty, thelema: I have studied the various possibility of GODI/oasis
<gildor> with Gerd
<gildor> hcarty, thelema: I think we will build a tool in between oasis2debian and GODIVA
<gildor> i.e. something that helps to do the 90% of the initial packaging/upgrade
<hcarty> gildor: Do you think it would be reasonable to provide support for oasis-db acting as a GODI repository?
<gildor> the 100% is hard to get
<gildor> hcarty: it is feasible, but will require hand editing for some parts
<gildor> hcarty: e.g. deciding when to use conf-* package
<gildor> hcarty: let says that if you want to do it, you can probably do it just as odb.ml was build, you should have enough information from the _oasis
<gildor> (just use the oasis library from the source and parse/decode _oasis files)
<gildor> maybe you can use some part of the code found oasis-db sources
<hcarty> gildor: That is what I expected. Now I just need to find a free week to work on it :-)
<thelema> gildor: could you explain more what's in the last 10%?
<thelema> godi packages sometimes have conf- packages that do what?
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<thelema> gildor: also, should I file bugs with you to fix entries in oasis-db? (like the Lablgtk2 package with the incorrect uppercase L)
<thelema> (or maybe the right fix is to do case-insensitive sor)
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<thelema> but the big bug for me is the linking order issue: http://forge.ocamlcore.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1069&group_id=54&atid=291
<hcarty> thelema: I ran into that after installing 11.10 on my desktop, but figured that I hadn't installed something properly
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<gildor> conf- package (AFAIR) are packages that describes some C libraries (I think)
<thelema> hcarty: yes, I assumed that for a long time, but after lots of tracking of the bug, I found that the linux linker has become much more picky about argument order
<thelema> gildor: ah, external C deps... hmmm
<adrien> gildor: yup
<adrien> they're not mandatory
<adrien> I think you should skip them at first
<gildor> thelema: I removed the Lablgtk2 package (though it will remain in the news for now)
<thelema> gildor: thanks.
<adrien> was the issue in lablgtk2 itself?
<thelema> adrien: no issue with lablgtk2. Although I should send you the _oasis file I wrote for lablgtk2 so you can make it unhacky and put it into lablgtk2's source tree
<adrien> thelema: handles pkg-config well? and the .ml4 files? and everything?
<thelema> adrien: just runs the ./configure and make to build, and has its own ocamlfind install command to install
<gildor> thelema: I think the compile and run C is a cairo project specific oasis functions
<gildor> thelema: I don't remember coding it
<thelema> gildor: oh. well then...
<adrien> thelema: ah, ok, but that's already a nice improvement =)
<thelema> adrien: as is, it makes it able to be odb-installed
<adrien> cairo2 has a specific thing to get the C "infos"
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<adrien> (I remember it has since it was the only part that failed on windows =) )
<thelema> gildor: btw, should I still have problems with forge.ocamlcore.org's certificate?
<thelema> adrien: ah.
<thelema> gildor: you're right - I'll bother upstream
<thelema> now as to lwt...
<thelema> I guess they did the same thing too, in a different way
<thelema> but still with the linking order wrong
<gildor> thelema: SSL cert shoud be ok, what is the problem and on which sites ?
<gildor> thelema: concerning your "install a specific version"
<thelema> http://pastebin.com/n42Pfcxt SSL cert error
<gildor> you could call "curl "http://oasis.ocamlcore.org/dev/api/0.1/sexp/pkg_ver/show?ver=0.2.0&pkg=oasis" to get the tarball name
<gildor> but if you want an entry in info/, tell me how to format it
<gildor> (feature request please, I'll have a ton of thing to do RSN)
<thelema> gildor: no rush on this. I'll think further on how to do this right.
<gildor> thelema: what's your distro/OS ?
<thelema> gildor: ubuntu 11.10
<gildor> thelema: run this
<gildor> openssl s_client -connect forge.ocamlcore.org:443 < /dev/null | openssl x509 -noout -enddate
<gildor> did you get the same error in FF
<thelema> one sec
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<thelema> gildor: no, but I may have permanently made an exception
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<thelema> hmm, I have a certificate on file from equifax for *.ocamlcore.org - I'm not sure if that's my exception in FF or what.
<thelema> hmm, even after removing that cert, it still works in FF
<gildor> thelema: so it works on FF but not with wget
<gildor> thelema: I pay enough money for the cert so that it can work ;-)
<gildor> (in FF)
<thelema> ok
<gildor> try curl maybe
<gildor> I think you have a problem with setting CAPath or having the global file that contains all root CA updated
<gildor> (SSL stuff is not extremly simple)
<thelema> gildor: curl has same problem at oasis.ocamlcore.org
<adrien> thelema: mozilla never does things like the system asks it to: I think it has its own cert list
<thelema> of course. well I hope others don't have this problem too - maybe it's my old, cranky system with an old SSL conf
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<adrien> thelema: OCAMLPATH env var all the way
<adrien> or one like that
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<adrien> but you can definitely configure it with environment variables (or findlib.conf as you've stated) (connection is horribl laggy)
<thelema> adrien: will yypkg fit into this system?
<adrien> jein :P
<thelema> "nein"?
<adrien> jein means ja+nein
<adrien> currently, it wouldn't be able to upadte the conf file for the stubs in ocamlfind
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<adrien> but it's not terribly hard to add
<thelema> adrien: would it be useful as a binary package manager for ocaml-installer
<adrien> and apart from that it should be perfectly doable
<adrien> and if you don't care about bytecode it's already fine
<thelema> I'm not worried about yypkg configuring ocamlfind on windows, just whether it'd be good for package management in a one-click-install ocaml for windows
<adrien_web> I should really type on this connection because my screen is way too laggy to do anything
<adrien> my todo for yypkg is: remove sexplib and use biniou instead (JSON) and avoid syntax extensions; then I need to update the GUI stuff
<adrien> have you seen the screenshots?
<thelema> no
<thelema> looks nice
<thelema> ah, even prettier than the one on its webpage
<adrien> it should be as usable as a typical linux package manager
<thelema> using wget?
<adrien> slight differences but the whole stuff should be there
<adrien> yes, wget
<adrien> yypkg is very pragmatic in its design: take components that are know to work and already exist
<thelema> how's its repo structured?
<thelema> could it backend with oasis-db?
<adrien> repo has a big s-expression and files: http://notk.org/~adrien/yypkg/latest/
<adrien> the s-expression is like hat you'd have in the package db once you've installed the package (so you can poke the server to find out which package has a specific file)
<adrien> I don't know oasis-db well enough to comment on the matter
<adrien> yypkg really has a dump package format
<adrien> you have files in an archive and a doinst.el file
<adrien> the doinst.el file is an s-expression of "actions" that have to be done upon installation: extract some files, create a symlink, rm a file, ...
<adrien> the list of possible actions has to be expanded (and will be)
<thelema> interesting. How easy is it to add more packages? It's sounding like it's going to be hard to get many packages into it
<thelema> and the duplication of effort will result in few packages available for it...
<thelema> s/will/may/
<adrien_web> adding packages is quite simple (it's centralised: I do the work on my computer, create the list of packages and upload everythingà
<adrien_web> )
<thelema> the scripting is pretty simple?
<adrien_web> typically, the difficulty is not to make the package but to make the software build on/for windows and work on windows
<thelema> granted. I don't see lablgtk2 in your package list, have you tried packaging it?
<thelema> hmm, cairo2... means gtk+2 includes lablgtk2?
<adrien_web> I've used slackware package scripts so far and they're very very simple (I'm not sure I'll continue using them, or at least not in the same way because I'm constantly tracking slackware upstream, but it prevents me from forgetting updates!)
<adrien_web> the package list has only C libs because I've cross-compiled everything
<adrien_web> I think that in the end I'll cross-compile from cygwin
<adrien_web> typically, it takes half a day to one day to get a C library packaged and tested
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<adrien_web> and fixed
<adrien_web> that's why duplicating packaging is actually "fun"
<adrien> I'll be able to spend time on yypkg from february on
<thelema> ok. good luck with your work in the meantime.
<adrien> thanks =)
<adrien> I'll be doing an internship and I hope I'll be able to do yypkg work *for* the internship itself
<thelema> nice.
<adrien> and if not, I'll have free evenings anywya
<adrien> have to go to bed now, good night
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<Samae> adrien: good night
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<thelema> gildor: Lablgtk2 (cap. L) is still listed here: http://oasis.ocamlcore.org/dev/odb/
<agolsme> hmm, how do I manually implement something like Pervasives.float_to_int?
<agolsme> er float_of_int
<thelema> agolsme: really? you want to implement this manually?
<_habnabit> agolsme, what part is giving you trouble?
<agolsme> not really sure how to start..?
<agolsme> i am just curious mostly
<thelema> agolsme: do you know what a float looks like in a register?
<agolsme> ah i see,
<agolsme> ok that makes sense
<_habnabit> you don't even need to do that, though
<_habnabit> you could just do repeated multiplication/division
<thelema> I like the bit-shifting implementation of float -> int
<thelema> fraction >> (exponent - 1023 - 51) * sign
<_habnabit> heh
<thelema> or something like that.
<_habnabit> why not -972
<thelema> computing on the fly. 1023 is for the offset of the exponent, 51 is because 51 decimal digits in fraction
<_habnabit> ah
<thelema> err, binary fraction, not "decimal"
<thelema> err, maybe not.
<thelema> 52 decimal fraction digits, need to shift in a 1 still.
<thelema> anyway, bit shifting is probably faster than multiplication/division
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<_habnabit> thelema, it's academia; who cares about 'faster'
<thelema> _habnabit: my PhD advisor insists on it
<_habnabit> thelema, sorry, I included some extraneous words. "it's academia; who cares"
<thelema> _habnabit: ah, ok. true.
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