<hongboz>
thelema: I did not get any output, but in linux it does
<wmeyer>
thelema: i pasted the fix
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<_habnabit>
hongboz, gprof sucks a bunch
<_habnabit>
hongboz, use valgrind + cachegrind
<hongboz>
_habnabit: I heard that valgrind is too slow
<_habnabit>
hongboz, what does that mean
<hongboz>
the profiled binary 10x slower
<hongboz>
is that true?
<_habnabit>
10x sounds a bit much, but yes, valgrind runs the binary in a VM basically
<_habnabit>
IIRC gprof just periodically samples the stack, whereas valgrind will record every function entry and exit
<hongboz>
_habnabit: I will have a try, is it friendly to mac?
<_habnabit>
hongboz, yep
<_habnabit>
valgrind is super awesome though
<hongboz>
_habnabit: thx. will take a look
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<hongboz>
_habnabit: for valgrind, did I still need to compile with -p option?
<_habnabit>
hongboz, no
<_habnabit>
hongboz, should use -g at least though
<hcarty>
thelema: I am getting close to finishing another overhaul of BatBounded
<hcarty>
thelema: The result has slightly more verbose general value generators but simpler common case generators (option and saturation results)
<hongboz>
thelema: I suggested 100% compatible with the standard library for batteries
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<wmeyer>
thelema: You didn't like the fix? I removes List.hd. I can rework it if you are bothered by existence of fun x -> ...
<hcarty>
hongboz: Batteries is pretty close to that. Perhaps not 100%, but it's not far off in its default (open Batteries) state
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<hongboz>
hcarty: I know it's pretty close, but when you switch to any non-trivial code base using batteries, 90% you will have a compile error
<_habnabit>
eh, really? in my nontrivial codebase, the only thing I needed to change was List.sort
<_habnabit>
and that's been changed back since
<hongboz>
yes, you need to change, do you do Io?
<wmeyer>
I agree with hongboz
<wmeyer>
there are some differences
<hongboz>
100% compatible brings users much more convenience
<hongboz>
yes, we may loose some functionality
<_habnabit>
hongboz, no, I'm saying that it's not something you need to change amymore
<_habnabit>
anymore
<_habnabit>
it doesn't do much/any IO
<hongboz>
but you can implement in another library instead of a standad library
<hongboz>
_habnabit: yes, when you do some IO, you will be bitten again and again
<_habnabit>
the ocaml stdlib IO is pretty bad though
<hongboz>
_habnabit: implement your fancy IO in another library, not the standard library though
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<hcarty>
hongboz: The IO piece is one of the more useful/important parts of Batteries in my experience.
<hcarty>
hongboz: At a certain point it doesn't make sense to optimize Batteries for code which doesn't target it.
<hongboz>
If batteries aims to be the standard library, then it should be 100% compatible, that's my point.
<wmeyer>
hongboz: batteries are not fully stabilized yet
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<hcarty>
wmeyer: 1.5 is pretty stable. 2.x is still in flux though.
<hcarty>
hongboz: I disagree. Batteries does (did?) provide a compatibility layer for the stdlib.
<hongboz>
hcarty: believe me, I have tried to `open Batteries
<hongboz>
for 3 times,
<hongboz>
everytime, it does not work
<hcarty>
Shoot. let module M = (val m : S with type t = s with type tt = ss) in ... doesn't work.
<hongboz>
and
<hongboz>
(with type t = s and type tt = ss)
<hcarty>
hongboz: Is it a linking or installation issue?
<hongboz>
just does not compile
<hongboz>
batteries IO is in-compatible with std-library io
<wmeyer>
hcarty: we tried to use Fan on my machine, and hongboz have some bootstrapping stuff that does rely on particular version of batteries or rather structure of the basic interfaces
<hongboz>
wmeyer: that's another problem, not the IO though'
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<hongboz>
that problem should be easy to fix, the real pain is the IO
<hcarty>
hongboz: BatIO is tied to a lot of what Batteries provides. It could be removed but it would hurt the library significantly.
<hongboz>
what kind of features?
<hcarty>
hongboz: Output to strings/buffers/etc.
<hcarty>
hongboz: Various printers
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<hongboz>
That could be done in normal IO
<hongboz>
I don't think it would be too hard
<wmeyer>
hongboz: being with powerful stdlib is involved, upgrading takes a bit time.
<hcarty>
hongboz: It could be, but it would mean scrapping all of what exists in Batteries' implementation.
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<hongboz>
hcarty: in my opinion, batteries is still at alpha stage
<hongboz>
there are lots of low quality modules which need to be removed
<hongboz>
for example, batParser?
<hongboz>
sorry, batParserCo
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<hongboz>
As a standard library, we need a high quality first, functionality second
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<hongboz>
batEnum is also tricky
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<_habnabit>
'tricky' ?
<hongboz>
batEnum mixed laziness with side effects together
<hcarty>
hongboz: I agree that moving to Batteries requires some IO changes - I ran into that when switching.
<wmeyer>
hongboz: I think it's not general problem with batteries, it's just it's a huge library; and no one guarantees that all the modules will be of the top quality. If more people like you contributed more to the project we will be in much better state!
<hongboz>
wmeyer: really. As a standard library, batteries should be conservative
<_habnabit>
Enum has the same semantics as python iterators, so I didn't have any trouble with it
<hcarty>
hongboz: And BatEnum is probably more exposed than it should be. It's a useful plumbing module but as you hint at, the mixture of side effects and laziness can be surprising at times.
<hongboz>
batEnum is fancy when it works, but for serious use, it just does not work
<_habnabit>
haha, waht?
<hongboz>
what's the problem with Stream
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<hcarty>
hongboz: I don't think that's fair. BatEnum's actions are documented. You can use BatSeq (for example) if you want to avoid the side effects.
<ais523>
bleh, so I'm having problems using ocamlc: my situation is, I have a .ml file which I want to compile, which references another module
<ais523>
I have the .cmo and .cmi files for the module, but not the source code
<ais523>
and I can't seem to specify to ocamlc that it should recognise that module
<ais523>
is what I'm trying to do possible?
<hongboz>
Stream is enough for daily usage, and it has nice syntax extension
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<hongboz>
and it's in the *standard library* already
<wmeyer>
ais523: add the path to cmi file with -I like u do with your C headers
<hongboz>
hcarty: I read the source of batEnum one or two years ago
<wmeyer>
ais523: then specify the cmo file like you do with C compiler
<hongboz>
mixing laziness with side effect is not the right way to go
<ais523>
wmeyer: I think I tried that already, but I'll try again
<hongboz>
and batEnum even supports clone
<hcarty>
hongboz: There is an ongoing discussion about the removal of clone
<ais523>
can't try it right now, though; was working on a remote server and it just crashed
<hongboz>
If we remove clone, what's wrong with Stream, then?
<ais523>
ah, there it is
<hcarty>
hongboz: I don't know. Enum came from extlib originally. I'm not sure why it was created in place of Stream.
<wmeyer>
ais523: make sure you copied to pastebin; the channel is hyperactive now: i am afraid it might be lost in log
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<hongboz>
for example, sometimes you tried batteries, you just want to use one function ,i.e,(|>)
<ais523>
wmeyer: I'm used to channels much more active than this, but I'll pastebin anything long
<hcarty>
hongboz: For what it's worth, I'm glad you're looking at Batteries with such a critical eye.
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<hcarty>
Bug reports, patches and posts to the development mailing list would all be helpful if you're interested.
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<hongboz>
hcarty: sorry if I am too harsh, but the community really needs a high quality standard library, batteries currently does not meet the goal yet, 100% compatbility is the first step :-)
<wmeyer>
ais523: you welcome.
<hcarty>
hongboz: I agree that there is more to do. If the IO pieces in Batteries can be replaced with stdlib-compatible pieces without losing functionality then that would be a nice thing to have.
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<hongboz>
the fancy IO could be isolated in a module, but not intrusive
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<hcarty>
hongboz: But I'm not convinced that 100% compatibility is the first step, or even a necessary step. It would be a useful thing to have somewhere/somehow.
<hcarty>
hongboz: The same could be said for providing 100% stdlib compatibility :-) An extra module could be provided.
<hongboz>
hehe
<wmeyer>
i wonder if we polled how many people would like to be compatible with stdlib
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<wmeyer>
there could be part of batteries that must be compatible and other one that is not
<hcarty>
wmeyer: It would probably need to be asked with some context
<wmeyer>
if that's documented that would be fix hongboz problem
<hcarty>
wmeyer: Core breaks compatibility with stdlib all over the place, but there are reasons for the changes.
<hcarty>
Batteries keeps compatibility with almost everything except, as hongboz points out, IO.
<hongboz>
Core is in another direction, though
<hcarty>
If the IO piece could be overcome then that would be Quite Nice.
<hcarty>
Batteries does provide Core-like breaks in compatibility but they are optional (BatFoo.Exceptionless)
<hongboz>
yes, I agree. when user uprade to batteries, and it works smoothly
<hongboz>
that would be great!
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<hcarty>
hongboz: Agreed :-)
<hcarty>
Good night all
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<hongboz>
night
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<orbitz>
wmeyer: re drop format business, how do you think it should be done? Trying to provide an easy to use logging function for great good
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<companion_cube>
wmeyer: I can't imagine a case where I would be building a parser at runtime, but that's cool indeed
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<beginner42>
mcclurmc: i updated my opam to 0.7.5, but packaging still doesnt work
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<beginner42>
someone done packaging with opam?
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<Kakadu>
beginner42: It seems that this opa-opa-o-pa-pa is not very popular yet
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<beginner42>
Kakadu: seems this way...
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<mcclurmc>
hi beginner42
<mcclurmc>
here is how I set up a local repo for opma
<mcclurmc>
*opam
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<mcclurmc>
$ opam remote -list
<mcclurmc>
[rsync] local /home/mike/Projects/ocaml/opam-repository
<mcclurmc>
beginner42: i recommend that you test out your local repo by copying one of the existing package definitions, and just bumping a version number. if this works, then you know that you've defined your promela package wrong
<beginner42>
mcclurmc: the first line after opam remote -list from you, why does it say "local"?
<beginner42>
mcclurmc: did you say opam remote -add local path-to-opam-git-repo?
<mcclurmc>
that's the name i gave the repo. i did 'opam remote -add local /path/to/repo
<mcclurmc>
yup
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<beginner42>
mcclurmc: this way it works, now opam list shows me the promela package
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<mcclurmc>
beginner42: okay, awesome
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<beginner42>
mcclurmc: thanks a lot :)
<beginner42>
mcclurmc: how does it work now to get this package into the official git repo?
<mcclurmc>
beginner42: no problem! when you're comfortable that your package works correctly, make sure to give a pull request to the original repo
<mcclurmc>
you make a pull request
<mcclurmc>
have you used git before?
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<beginner42871>
mcclurmc: i lost my connection and couldnt read the last messages, how can i get my package to opam?
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<mcclurmc>
beginner42871: have you used git or github before?
<beginner42871>
just git
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<mcclurmc>
so you'll need to do a couple things. you need to fork the opam-repository on github. you should be able to do that by clicking the fork button on the upper right of the page on github
<mcclurmc>
(you'll need a github account)
<mcclurmc>
then you add that new repository as a remote to your local git repo
<mcclurmc>
commit your changes
<mcclurmc>
push to your remote
<mcclurmc>
then you'll find a 'pull request' button on your opam-repository fork page on github
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<beginner42871>
mcclurmc: one question about the descr file, if i do opam list i get a short description and opam info the long description. how do i tell that the descr file?
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<pippijn>
wmeyer: I made the glr functions somewhat type-safe, now I'm much happier with them
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<nicoo>
pippijn: GLR ?
<pippijn>
yes
<nicoo>
What is GLR ?
* nicoo
is curious.
<pippijn>
generalised LR parsing
<nicoo>
Ah, ok
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<flux>
ha, ha.. "Camlp5 6.07, compatible with OCaml 4.00.1 has been released. Camlp5 is a syntactic preprocessor for OCaml. Like Camlp4 except that it works and is fast."
<rixed>
flux: ...and it's documented :)
<adrien>
hahaha :D
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<mehdid_>
he could have added "mature"
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<nicoo>
flux: Yeah; I forwarded the mail to friends because it was so funny :)
<nicoo>
pippijn: Btw, which lib do you use for GLR ?
<pippijn>
nicoo: elkhound
<adrien>
I'm wondering how faster it is: I stopped using sepxlib.syntax because of the speed impact [ and the portability of camlp4 ]
<pippijn>
adrien: speed impact on compile times?
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<adrien>
pippijn: yeah, it doubled my build times for yypkg
<pippijn>
yeah
<adrien>
probably partly because I was blindly using the extension on every file
<adrien>
but also, the extension was a no-op in them (well, camlp4 wiht no pa_* rewrites your code, but still, it shouldn't be slow)
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<pippijn>
Finished, 173 targets (0 cached) in 00:00:25.
<pippijn>
that is with camlp4
<pippijn>
without is:
<pippijn>
Finished, 173 targets (0 cached) in 00:00:15.
<pippijn>
without as in: selectively
<adrien>
which syntax extension are you using?
<pippijn>
sexplib and ulex (in one file)
<pippijn>
sexplib in some files with types
<pippijn>
but I mostly put several types together in one file
<adrien>
I actually don't like sexplib.syntax that much
<pippijn>
if they are related
<pippijn>
adrien: why not?
<adrien>
it generates very redundant code
<pippijn>
it's useful for inspection
<adrien>
I could go back in time if you want and check the size difference in yypkg
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<pippijn>
no need
<adrien>
pippijn: I said "sexplib.syntax", not "sexplib" :P
<adrien>
I've done the work by hand
<pippijn>
-rwx------ 1 pippijn pippijn 4.4M Oct 8 20:07 _build/elkhound/elkhound.native*
<adrien>
what are you working on elkhound for?
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<pippijn>
I rewrote it in ocaml
<pippijn>
-rwx------ 1 pippijn pippijn 4.3M Oct 8 20:10 _build/elkhound/elkhound.native*
<pippijn>
seems ok for now
<adrien>
pippijn: so you wrote from scratch, no?
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<adrien>
or was it in caml?
<pippijn>
it was in C++
<pippijn>
I started 9 days ago
<pippijn>
and yesterday I had a working C++ parser using my rewrite
<adrien>
why do you say "rewrite" when it's completely new code? did you borrow some concepts?
<adrien>
also, what do you plan on using that parser for?
<pippijn>
I borrowed concepts
<pippijn>
adrien: fun
<pippijn>
and later, more fun
<pippijn>
I could go on and on about what cool things you can do with a C++ parser
<adrien>
ok, I was wondering if it would be linked to qt
<pippijn>
oh, no
<pippijn>
Qt's MOC as entirely different ways of achieving its goal
<pippijn>
has*
<pippijn>
it doesn't preprocess the code at all
<pippijn>
whereas my parser doesn't understand un-preprocessed code
<adrien>
yeah
<pippijn>
actually the parser is very slow
<pippijn>
so I figured I could start investigating incremental parsing
<pippijn>
updating the parse tree on minor changes
<pippijn>
I'm not sure how that can be achieved, yet
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<pippijn>
I have a parser generator and a parser core completely under my control
<pippijn>
and completely in my mind
<pippijn>
I feel very powerful, now
<pippijn>
I can implement anything I like, all of this is my code now
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<ousado>
pippijn: congrats
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<_habnabit>
OCamlGuy, and why are you matching | tup (x, y) ?
<_habnabit>
OCamlGuy, likely you meant to just do | x, y ->
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<_habnabit>
OCamlGuy, please keep it on #ocaml
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<kdridi>
hi
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<YawningAngel>
How do I use an if... else... statement with two conditions? i"f a >= b && a <= c then a", for example? It seems valid but spits out an error
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<_habnabit>
YawningAngel, the error being..?
<YawningAngel>
"unexpected infix operator in expression"
<_habnabit>
YawningAngel, show us the full code and error
<_habnabit>
YawningAngel, or a minimal reproducing example