ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml-lang.org
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<rgrinberg> How expensive is Hashtbl.length?
<_habnabit> think it's O(1)
<_habnabit> one sec
<_habnabit> yep
<rgrinberg> _habnabit, ok cool. thanks.
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<rgrinberg> hmm, is there a way to get the size of a hashtable?
<rgrinberg> i mean for how many elements it's allocating memory for
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<_habnabit> rgrinberg, what would you do with that information?
<_habnabit> rgrinberg, are you trying to diagnose a problem?
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<johnsingleton> Hi, I'm pretty new to OCaml and I'm having kinda a strange type problem. I'm sure it's simple but could someone have a look? http://pastebin.com/t5mEzixu
<kba> johnsingleton: what problem do you get
<johnsingleton> The error I get is "Error: This expression has type unit list but an expression was expected of type unit" -- it seems like I am keeping all my types straight, so I am confused
<kba> so something is returning a list where it shouldn't
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<johnsingleton> is it possible to just tell it to return type unit after List.iter?
<johnsingleton> if that's what its beef is
<johnsingleton> perhaps using List.iter is not really what I want...
<kba> I'm not sure if that would help, but yes it's possible
<kba> expression; expression
<kba> If you have like that, the last expression would be returned
<kba> so List.iter (....); ()
<kba> but if you need to do that, you should probably rewrite your code
<kba> and keep in mind that I'm by no means an expert in OCaml
<johnsingleton> I'm just trying to populate my hash table… perhaps a recursive loop would be more appropriate
<kba> that's how I would do it
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<johnsingleton> oooook. So I've managed to work out that type error (it was a parens problem) but now I have something I'm totally stumped on: http://pastebin.com/g7tQa20E -- I get an error that: "Error: Some type variables are unbound in this type: method aj has type ('a, 'b list) Hashtbl.t where 'b is unbound"
<johnsingleton> what exactly is unbound about b'?
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<johnsingleton> I think I understand the problem
<johnsingleton> is it possible for me to specify the types that the hash table will handle in the signature?
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<_habnabit> johnsingleton, if your class is polymorphic, you have to do e.g. `class ['a, 'b] graph edge_list`
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<johnsingleton> I just solved it with this: val adjacency_list : (int, int list) Hashtbl.t = Hashtbl.create (length edge_list)
<johnsingleton> is that acceptable?
<_habnabit> johnsingleton, well, if that's what you mean, sure. it's not polymorphic, though
<johnsingleton> in this case, I do want the type to be fixed
<_habnabit> sounds fine
<johnsingleton> I would have to do things more generically to make it polymorphic
<johnsingleton> ok coolness, thanks
<_habnabit> fwiw i got your pastebin to compile with just this change:
<_habnabit> class ['a, 'b] graph (edge_list: ('a * 'b) list) = object (this)
<_habnabit> also
<_habnabit> i'd restructure it a bit one sec
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<adrien> and now trying to escape reddit's gravity: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/11gg0x/mingwbuilds_11rc1_50_applications_and_libraries/ , please help :-)
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<munga> I'm trying to have ocamlfind and ocamlbuild playing nicely together
<munga> if I ask :
<munga> export OCAMLPATH=_build && ocamlfind list
<munga> ocamlfind shows me the package I'm looking for
<munga> but if I do
<munga> export OCAMLPATH=_build && ocamlbuild ocamlc -use-ocamlfind ...
<munga> ocamlbuild tells me it cannot find the package...
<munga> how can I convince ocamlbuild to pass the OCAMLPATH env variable to ocamlfind ?
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<adrien> OCAMLPATH=_build sounds wrong
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<adrien> I guess you build a first library and then another one that depends on the first one?
<_habnabit> munga, huh, what are you trying to do here?
<munga> I compile a library and I put it in the _build directory ... I could put it anywhere else ...
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<munga> ah ! adrien you actually hit on the spot. if I put the library dir in tmp, it works !
<munga> _habnabit, I've a project that depends on an external library.
<munga> to speed up things, I've created a git submodule with the external library
<munga> no I want to compile my project using this external library, without installing it ...
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<adrien> you should install the library to a temporary location with ocamlfind
<munga> so I copy all the cma etc in a temporary dir...
<adrien> then tell the second build system to look there, again with ocamlfind
<adrien> no, install
<munga> indeed ... _build was just the wrong choice for a temporary dir !
<adrien> that block of code should do pretty much what you need
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<munga> thanks !
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<orbitz> Ahah! Found the problem!
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* wmeyer formatting sucks
<orbitz> code formatting?
<wmeyer> I found Format module quite horrible
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<orbitz> What does Format do?
<wmeyer> maybe that's my biased opinion after using it quite often
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<wmeyer> Format is a pretty printer engine
<wieczyk> I am working curently on pretty printing module, in different flavor than Format module.
<wmeyer> wieczyk: did you look at pprint?
* companion_cube finds Format cool
<wieczyk> No, never heard.
<wieczyk> Could you give me a link?
<wmeyer> it's interesting but I haven't time to learn it
<wieczyk> Ok it requires to downlod source, I will check it later.
* wmeyer thinks Format in some ways might be entertaining
<wieczyk> I am woking on library for pretty printing ASTs
<wieczyk> which can detect that output is an terminal and ansi sequences can be used for coloring
<wmeyer> wieczyk: such as deriving?
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<wieczyk> it is my prototype
<wieczyk> and usage:
<wmeyer> companion_cube: can you give me one exact reason why Format is cool... speed? DSL in pritnfs or?
<companion_cube> wmeyer: I find it practical for pretty printing, apart from a few missing combinators
<companion_cube> and static checking of format strings is really nice
<wmeyer> companion_cube: OK I agree it's usable, but I would prefer combinators really
<wmeyer> wieczyk: Nice! Is it a compiler?
<wieczyk> It will be a compiler
<wmeyer> companion_cube: static checking; missing @] will be an error at runtime
<wieczyk> give me a second for screenshot
<companion_cube> wmeyer: I was talking at least about the arguments
<companion_cube> which is already much
<companion_cube> and @] can be arbitrarily further in the pretty-printing, I don't see how you could check this
<wieczyk> My AIM is to implement many intermediate languages, techniques, and static analysis
<wieczyk> I would like to have sandbox where I could implement some thinkgs about which i am reading.
<wieczyk> Because many times I am reading about cool type systems etc, but I cannot check.
<wieczyk> For example
<wieczyk> nice paper
<wieczyk> He discovered bugs in linux's drivers.
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<wieczyk> Nice article, but still i do not know how it works.
<wieczyk> Not this certain type system, but how to encode C program as a lambda term
<wieczyk> and check by some cool type system.
<wieczyk> I would like to use my tool for
<wmeyer> companion_cube: but usually it's not if you use combinators
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<wieczyk> implementing for example a something similar which encodes simple WHILE language in some lambda terms and checks.
<wmeyer> wieczyk: Looks quite cool
<wieczyk> I need this, becuase without a sandbox I cannot understand how exacly some thinks works and how to use it in practical world.
<companion_cube> indeed, it not perfect
<wieczyk> Thanks
<wmeyer> I struggle with Format often
<wieczyk> When I finish base
<wieczyk> and have something bigger done
<wieczyk> then feel free to develop this code too ;]
<wmeyer> I would prefer something more automated but still doing nice job
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<wmeyer> wieczyk: thanks, maybe someday I can try to port it to my framework
<wieczyk> mhmhm
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<wmeyer> companion_cube: I have usual workflows for everything apart format module
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<wmeyer> companion_cube: but now i think i have one: first do everything separated by "@ " and no boxes
<wmeyer> companion_cube: and then do the "@;"
<wmeyer> and finaly boxes
<wieczyk> "@;" ?
* companion_cube uses nested boxes
<wmeyer> wieczyk: yes, read about Format module
<wieczyk> I saw only interface.
<wmeyer> wieczyk: sorry; being annoyed.
<wieczyk> Sorry.
<wieczyk> ok.
<companion_cube> wmeyer: there are shortcuts in Format strings
<companion_cube> stuff like "@[<h 2>%a:%d@]@;"
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<wmeyer> yes, I use it
<wmeyer> wieczyk: Format module allows to pretty print basicaly using boxes and indenetation :-) That's me tired, not you :)
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<wmeyer> so no need to be sorry
* wmeyer being harsh today
<wmeyer> ok companion_cube I agree it's pretty cool if somebody takes a structured approach and knows how to nest them
<wmeyer> otherwise it's pain
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<wmeyer> wieczyk: are you going to be extending the language?
<wieczyk> Yes.
<wieczyk> Now I want to focus on my master thesis and finish compiler for MiniML [according to Appel's book]
<wmeyer> so it's not a sort of research project: hack away, play around, write a paper and then leave it to rot.
<wieczyk> When I will have this basic, I am goint to extending etc.
<wieczyk> No
<wieczyk> I want to have code clear, I want this tool to be usable for other peoples.
<wieczyk> I think it is a important part of popularizing programming-languages-related computer science.
<wmeyer> wieczyk: I like the idea, good luck with it
<wieczyk> Becuase currently we have a lot of articles, but even interested people [like me and you] dont know how to use many thinks.
<wieczyk> Thanks.
<wieczyk> For example
<wieczyk> I believe that it is easy to improve quality of seminars on my university.
<wieczyk> Instead of only-speaking-about-some-article
<wieczyk> somecone could clone MiniML implementation to .. for example MyML
<wieczyk> and have complete typechecker, parser, rpinter etc
<wieczyk> and just focus on implementing extension from article.
<wmeyer> wieczyk: that's correct, with an assumption people wanting to learn ML
<wieczyk> But ok, I dont want to speak a lot about project. I hope it will not day.
<wieczyk> I will force them to learn ML :D
<wmeyer> the sad and pragmatic true is that people *don't want to even hear about ML*
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<wieczyk> ;[
<wieczyk> day -> die
<wieczyk> my sound-based-writing english is fun.
<wieczyk> funny*
<wmeyer> mention ocaml at work - you will be either perceived as mental or different or that or other way they will be ingoring you
<wieczyk> Yeah, I feel it now.
<wieczyk> Sometime I think that people see me as a crazy man who cannot accept C++
<wmeyer> one needs to use dirty social hacks to drag them to the dark side
<wieczyk> It is funny for me how people believe in C++. When for example you tell that C++ is not good language, standard is not good.
<wmeyer> and tacticals like, inserting braces in DSL or encoding dsls in XML
<wieczyk> Then they with some emotional backend offense you 'WHAT !? WHAT IS BAD IN C++?!'
<wmeyer> wieczyk: they are religious, some of them are aware it's crap, but will admit otherwise
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<wieczyk> In this language the order of evaluation of functon arguments is not specified.
<wmeyer> wieczyk: I wouldn't be to picky about it, in OCaml too
<wieczyk> Moment, i need to check what means the "picky" :D
<wmeyer> wieczyk: in C++ is much worse, functions are mostly impure
<wieczyk> Yes, and people are encoding higher order stuff by some non-effective entities like boost::function, boost::bind
<wieczyk> Also polymorphism in C++ is bad. In ML
<wieczyk> f :: forall a b, t
<wieczyk> means that the code of functions is correct for any types we put as 'a' and 'b'
<wieczyk> in C++ no, you can write template<> code which is correct only for some types.
<wieczyk> bleh.
<wieczyk> I know that ML also can have some ugly stuff.
<wieczyk> It is normal, nothing is perfect.
* wmeyer is in mood after using Format to defend C++ to piss off a bit wieczyk.
<wieczyk> hehe
<wmeyer> nope
<wmeyer> i admit C++ is not a good language
<wmeyer> and people are not aware
<wmeyer> about it
<wmeyer> JS is not better
<wmeyer> and people are not aware about it too
<wieczyk> Yes, I cannot admit that many C++ users are not aware that C++ like any other thing in this universe is not perfect.
<wieczyk> OK
<milki> theres a triple negative in that sentence
<milki> >.<
<wieczyk> I am going away, before you will panish me for Format module :D
<wmeyer> wieczyk: maybe you know or not, actually you would be surprised but they might have some light in their brains telling them that ML is much better.
<wieczyk> hehe
<wieczyk> punish*
* wmeyer not having very clear thoughs today
<wmeyer> wieczyk: it was actually nice to rant again C++!
<wmeyer> but I want really more people trying ML like you
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<wmeyer> actually writing serious stuff in it
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