flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<fasta_> I have an OASIS library. How can I install it only if it is newer than the previously installed version?
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<fasta_> I have around 30 files like META.ocplib-subst-worker. What are they doing there?
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<wmeyer> hi
<orbitz> hi
<companion_cube> hi
<companion_cube> this chan just got much more interesting.
<Anarchos> companion_cube because i am here ?
<companion_cube> I didn't see you :p
<Anarchos> :/
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<wmeyer> hi orbitz companion_cube and Anarchos
<companion_cube> how are things going in non-fantasy-land-ocaml?
<Anarchos> companion_cube fine : i am on the right path to finish my interfacing with a multithread C++ API. Seems i could write an article :)
<orbitz> Hey
<orbitz> hah
<companion_cube> Anarchos: good luck with that
<wmeyer> companion_cube: it's OK, I just got back from the daytime work
<orbitz> so i'm going to look at avsm's ocaml-ssh and see how to fix up the I/O layer
<orbitz> hopefully i can get around to it during the enxt few weeks
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<Anarchos> companion_cube so why do you find this chan more interesting ?
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<orbitz> probabl because people were talking
<Anarchos> orbitz well i speak because i make cool things with ocaml :)
<wmeyer> orbitz: yeah, we need to talk more. I'm being a bit un-social these days :-)
<wmeyer> it's always a good reason Anarchos :)
<wmeyer> companion_cube: apart from working day, the weather today is awesome!
<companion_cube> Anarchos: that was a poor attempt at humor ^^
<companion_cube> wmeyer: quite!
<wmeyer> :)
<wmeyer> maybe somebody remembers the second after manual source for "Interfacing with C" topic (I think it was a tutorial or blog)
<Anarchos> which second ??
<wmeyer> Anarchos: apart from the manual some people pointed out a tutorial or blog post how to interface with C and how runtime represents values on the heap.
<Anarchos> wmeyer maybe the interanals of ocaml by philippe wang ?
<Anarchos> internals (sorry for mistyping)
<wmeyer> oh yes maybe that one thanks Anarchos
<Anarchos> not philippe but richard jones acording to google
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<dsheets> hello, is it possible to set ocamlbuildflags variable from _oasis?
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<wmeyer> Anarchos: got it! thanks
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<dsheets> or is there a general way to set setup.data variables in _oasis?
<dsheets> I haven't found anything but maybe it's obvious
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<Anarchos> caml_execute_signal sigsev on signal_number=27....
<Anarchos> kill -l says it is SIGVTALRM
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<orbitz> without using objects, how would I implement a container for plugins where i wnat the plugins to be able to store whatever data they want but I need to keep it all inthe same place. each plugin will implement an interface
<thelema_> orbitz: modules?
<orbitz> using first class modules? how would it look if the plugin wants to modify the data it holds?
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<thelema_> modules have access to their internals.
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<orbitz> I thought a module was stateles though? Do you instantiate modules?
<wmeyer> orbitz: a record?
<thelema_> modules can have mutable values in them
<orbitz> wmeyer: what does the record look like?
<orbitz> thelema_: what if I want the same code with its ow nvalues?
<wmeyer> orbitz: type 'a plugin = { data: 'a; init : unit -> unit; act: unit -> int; unload: unit -> unit }
<thelema_> orbitz: use an applicative functor
<orbitz> wmeyer: how do I store a list of these?
<thelema_> err, generative
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<wmeyer> orbitz: let plugins : int ref plugin = [];;
<thelema_> = ref [];;
<wmeyer> yes
<wmeyer> and int plugin ref.
<orbitz> doesn't that require the type of data is alwasy the same?
<wmeyer> yes
<orbitz> that isn't what I want
<wmeyer> then use subtyping and objects
<orbitz> my question was 'without using objects' :
<orbitz> :)
<wmeyer> I see, but the answer is: the easiest way is to use objects or first class modules :)
<thelema_> wmeyer: probably objects
<wmeyer> I'd use objects
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<gasche> orbitz: you can just use a record of closures that capture some shared mutable state
<gasche> or modules
<gasche> if you don't need to manipulate them dynamically, you don't need them to be first-class
<gasche> (I mean if there is a fixed number of different "plugins" in your application)
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<orbitz> yeah, the closure solution is what I'm thinking if i really want to avoid objects for wahteverreason
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<gasche> records are fine as well
<gasche> in fact, records or GADTs are necessary if the interface needs to expose the internal state
<gasche> hm
<gasche> I meant "modules or GADTs", any form of existential types
<gasche> (though in fact you could pull that of with first-class polymorphism
<gasche> )
<gasche> eg. if your private type is 't' and your interface is "create : t;; next : t -> int;; reset : t -> unit", you can hide the state parameter in the closure
<gasche> but if you have "create : t;; save : t -> t;; reload : t -> t;; next : t -> int;; reset : t -> unit" and you want to allow users to call (foo.reload foo.save), then you need an (existential) type for the intermediary stuff
<orbitz> in this case they don't need to expose the state. they will just do some actions on it
<gasche> closures, then
<orbitz> tack
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<ousado> oh man..
<ousado> I think it's time for developers to end the patent wars
<companion_cube> it's just been the case for 5 years
<companion_cube> :(
<ousado> yes, it's been going on for much too long already.
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<Anarchos> ousado which patent war ?
<ousado> all of them
<Anarchos> ousado so not only developers but also the whole industry patent system ;)
<ousado> most recent example I noticed being the SIP protocol
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<ousado> well, I mean it's time for the developers to end it, as in making their employers stop.
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<ousado> and a few days before I learned about the british telecom claiming ownership of SIP, I became aware of a public/private key crypto system that's several orders of magnitude faster than RSA, but not in wide-spread use because of guess what
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<Anarchos> ousado all the idea behind those patent fight is to make money
<Anarchos> ousado nothing more nothing less
<Anarchos> so... you are asking to empty an ocean with a tea spoon :)
<ousado> no
<ousado> I don't see how that metaphor applies here
<ousado> and sure it's about money.. but it's a political issue
<Anarchos> well, we won't see a bill forbiding capitalism soon :D
<Anarchos> anyway, it's time to go to bed
<ousado> not everything that helps big companies make money also makes economic sense. and as far as I know in most countries that would matter here, you'd need any bill to go on strike.
<ousado> *wouldn't need any bill
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