<Drup>
bernardofpc: That's a very common disease in the caml community. :D
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<bernardofpc>
:p
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<def-lkb>
ollehar: hi, did you manage to get merlin working?
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<nicoo>
o/ Drup
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<fasta>
opam installation returns: ocaml and preprocessor have incompatible versions.
<orbitz>
that's a shame
<fasta>
Does anyone have any idea how to fix that?
<orbitz>
do you know which programs it's calling to determine their versions?
<ollehar1>
fasta: recompile?
<fasta>
ollehar1: this happens during recompilation.
<fasta>
ollehar1: and it's a clean build.
<Drup>
fasta: how did you install ocaml/camlp4 ?
<fasta>
ollehar1: that depends on which one you are talking about.
<fasta>
Drup: that was for you.
<orbitz>
i think he's asking about both
<fasta>
Drup: the one in PATH?
<orbitz>
fasta: are your camlc and camlp4 compatible??
<fasta>
/bin/which ocaml points at a Debian Squeeze version.
<Drup>
you have multiple compiler ? that may be where the problem is :)
<orbitz>
fasta: are your camlc and camlp4 compatible??
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<fasta>
orbitz: both resturn 3.12.1 as version.
<fasta>
return*
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<orbitz>
fasta: I'd do an strace -ff -o foo ./whatever and check what version is begin returned
<fasta>
I just don't get why people write down in their programs "that incompatible versions" are being used without providing proof (paths to binaries with actual versions) to show that indeed something is wrong.
<fasta>
Also, such errors could be eliminated by merging all the binaries into one.
<orbitz>
fasta: feel free to fix the opam code
<fasta>
That way it would be impossible to "mix up" versions.
<Drup>
fasta: do you have another compiler installed ?
<fasta>
Drup: only opam versions.
<fasta>
Drup: and a system compiler.
<Drup>
hum, so you have opam already ? And you're recompiling it ?
<fasta>
I think I am just going to set the paths in configure if that'
<fasta>
s possible.
<fasta>
Ok, so that's not possible either.
<fasta>
This is just great.
<fasta>
./configure: line 2514: AC_PROG_OCAML: command not found
<fasta>
After an autoreconf.
<fasta>
Also, the file has an exit status of 0.
<fasta>
You are supposed to return non-zero when it doesn't work.
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<orbitz>
is opam in control of how configure works?
<fasta>
orbitz: no, but the authors of opam are.
<orbitz>
are they? i was under the impression configure was a framework
<orbitz>
but it doesn't matter
<fasta>
orbitz: I know that *my* stuff *always* works.
<orbitz>
cool
<fasta>
orbitz: that's why I read the manual to make sure it works.
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<orbitz>
feel free to contirbute to opam
<fasta>
orbitz: I believe most of the core members are paid employees.
<fasta>
orbitz: why would I contribute?
<orbitz>
fasta: if you don't want to contribute then please keep your whining to yourself.
<fasta>
orbitz: I am already contributing by telling how badly it works.
<fasta>
The worst thing is that after repeatedly reporting EPIC FAILURE they still don't get how to build quality software.
<fasta>
As such, if I were to contribute, I am sure WW3 would be soon to start.
<fasta>
There is a fundamental difference between how I want to see software developed and how they want it.
<orbitz>
fasta: You complaining about opam here isn't contirbuing much, please create bug tickets if you don't want to write a patch
<Drup>
That's sure the perfect attitude to be heard.
<Drup>
surely*
<orbitz>
fasta: your attitude on #ocaml doesn't make anyone sympathize with you, it also diminishes how seriously anyone takes your issues
<fasta>
All I ask from people is that *if* they release something, that it makes the world a *better* place.
<fasta>
But that appears to be too much to ask.
<djcoin>
fasta: wonder which side you are on, not releasing or releasing shit
<orbitz>
fasta: In my opinion, opam does make the world a better place
<fasta>
djcoin: a few days ago I contributed to tmux by explaining how to fix their build system.
<orbitz>
I know it's hard to hear, but yes, your opinion might not be the universal truth. *shocking music*
<fasta>
djcoin: and it was fixed shortly after and in general tmux has been made by non-idiots.
<djcoin>
impressive
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<Drup>
fasta: you would be surprise by the fact that people don't always have a thesis in build systems and that doesn't make them "idiots". Especially considering the fact most of them are plain horrible. You seems to have one. That's great. ~~
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<fasta>
Drup: again, that's the wrong attitude.
<Drup>
You mean, talking shit like what you're doing right now ?
<fasta>
Drup: the software developer in question makes the *choice* to use a certain build system.
<fasta>
Drup: he/she can *not* blame the build system for some issues.
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<fasta>
If you use a computer wrong, do you also blame the computer?
<djcoin>
i would blame your parents I guess
<djcoin>
:)
<fasta>
I think you just have no standards.
<fasta>
Which immediately explains why so much OCaml software is either non-existent or bad.
<fasta>
OCaml doesn't even have one working build system, AFAIK.
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<fasta>
The systems which do exist all need modification to work in a semi-acceptable way.
<fasta>
Even then, they are "designed by evolution" instead of holistically.
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<fasta>
In fact, reinventing a build system is already a bad idea in the first place.
<fasta>
Instead of just using something which already works, they decided that it was useful to spend (likely tax money) on some broken system.
<fasta>
Why would I have to recognize such behaviour as acceptable? I don't. Hence, I also label such undesired behaviour.
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<flux>
but wouldn't be still be using shell scripts for building stuff with that attitude?
<flux>
ocamlbuild is great when it works out-of-the-box :-)
<flux>
sadly it stucks when it doesn't.
<fasta>
flux: all my shell scripts work just fine.
<flux>
fasta, so you use shell scripts for building your software? I see no reason to change if it works for you.
<fasta>
Debugging shell scripts is also very simple, for the same reasons why debugging functional programming languages is simple.
<fasta>
flux: there are these ${OTHERPEOPLE} which also build software, but they cannot write build systems.
<fasta>
flux: in some cases, indeed I just find an alternative, or write an alternative.
<fasta>
flux: however, I cannot fix the whole world's problems.
<fasta>
Well, actually I can, but I will likely never get enough resources to do that.
<flux>
fasta, I imagine your shell scripts fail to parallelize builds anywhere near optimally
<fasta>
flux: who says I use shell scripts to control the builds?
<fasta>
flux: I have other solutions for that.
<flux>
I thought that's exactly what you're doing.
<fasta>
Really, the best solution would be if every project would come with a dependency graph.
<flux>
but I shouldn't be talking now, instead I should be walking to the store that closes in 14 minutes
<fasta>
Then I can plug in my own build system.
<fasta>
But that will never happen.
<fasta>
The cmake people did see that need, though, but they made some other design flaws.
<djcoin>
Damn those noobs
<fasta>
djcoin: yeah, I think I will have to conclude that I am in a small minority which does understands how it is supposed to work.
<fasta>
djcoin: and yes, I understand you are not being serious...
<djcoin>
i'm contributing right here !
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<fasta>
djcoin: your sarcasm is boring.
<djcoin>
Thanks
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<wwilly>
bonjour
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<flux>
has anyone implemented DCI in OCaml?
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<ousado>
flux: what does that stand for in this case?
<flux>
Data, Context, Interaction
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<ousado>
flux: sounds a bit like entity systems, at a cursory look.
<flux>
well, I'm trying to gain some insight on WHAT it is, an ocaml implementation would perhaps had been helpful :)
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<ousado>
flux: yeah, not that I knew what entity systems are (or anyone else for that matter), perhaps except ways to use OOP(-languages) without trying to model everything using inheritance
<flux>
indeed, apparently DCI architecture is amenable to being more statically analysed than systems that depend on oop polymorphism
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<ousado>
flux: I'm always sceptical when it comes to paradigms that somehow present themselves as generally applicable approaches to modeling software. The few recommendations that the functional 'paradigm' entails, are much more humble, and their motivations are trivially comprehensible
<ousado>
.. instead, I mean
<flux>
well, MVC has been relatively succesful, no?
<flux>
and then there's always a better way to build complex systems
<flux>
obviously we don't know what it is, but maybe in ten years we know which of the current ideas were good
<ousado>
flux: but MVC doesn't promise to solve every problem ever
<ousado>
it's restricted to a domain
<ousado>
which also is much more humble (and useful)