#ocaml on 2013-05-30 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2013-02-24 19:25 flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.00.1 http://bit.ly/UHeZyT | http://www.ocaml.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/

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06:29 <LiesHidden> Well that was an interesting experiment.... failed, but still interesting..

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06:34 <LiesHidden> I've successfully made the Bell Algorithm for permutations work with OCaml, takes 30 ms for all permutations of 1234, however, not doing very well for all 10! permutations of 0123456789 *chuckles*

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07:49 <orbitz> wmeyer: hai

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08:56 <lunastyx1> Hello

08:57 <lunastyx1> Quelle est la commande correspondant ???et lab = [|[|`E`;`E`;`E`;`E`;`E`;`E`;`E`;`E`|];

08:57 <lunastyx1> oops

08:57 <lunastyx1> Quelle est la commande correspondant Random.self_init (); en camllight ?

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08:58 <lunastyx1> random___self_init ne marche pas

08:58 <Cypi> This is an English channel, please go to #ocaml-fr if you wish to ask something in French :)

08:59 <lunastyx1> Oh sorry

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08:59 <lunastyx1> Which command is used in camllight for the Random.self_init existing in ocaml ?

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09:04 <lunastyx1> No time left o/

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13:31 <Kakadu> Is there any way to explain ocp-indent that 'lwt' should be indented like 'let'?

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13:37 <mk270> kakadu: or to *emacs* :)

13:38 <gasche> well I suppose you can use ocp-ident in Emacs to do your indentation

13:38 <def-lkb> ocp-indent --syntax=lwt

13:38 <gasche> (not sure how well that works for partially incorrect programs)

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13:39 <gasche> maybe frustratingly, I do most of my actual OCaml programming on a 3.12.1 machine without all those nice new tools

13:41 <Kakadu> def-lkb: I shoudl hack ocp-indent.el to enable it?

13:43 <gasche> Kakadu: just add "syntax = lwt" in your .ocp-indent

13:43 <gasche> (which is a project-local configuration file)

13:44 <gasche> you could also use in-comment configuration, I assume (* -*- syntax=lwt -*- *) may work (not sure though)

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13:48 <Kakadu> gasche: many thanks

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13:57 <mk270> hello #ocaml denizens; i am trying to fix the toolchain information at http://ocaml.org/dev_tools.html - is anyone up for helping?

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13:58 <avsm> mk270: hell yeah. i'm about to get that section in real world ocaml next week

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14:00 <gasche> I'm also interested, though I don't have as much time as I would like to

14:00 <mk270> avsm: please rephrase that?

14:00 <mk270> well, today i have some time

14:00 <mk270> now

14:01 <mk270> i am mainly interested in documenting the tool chain

14:01 <mk270> rather than editor/ide support

14:01 <mk270> i want to represent the relations "x is a substitute for y" / "x complements y"

14:02 <mk270> is there a staging version of the ocaml.org site that ppl can push to?

14:03 <gasche> there are the sources on github

14:03 <mk270> yeeees

14:03 <gasche> https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml.org/

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14:03 <mk270> that's the opposite, right? i want a place where ppl can view the *rendered* version

14:04 <gasche> ah

14:04 <gasche> well it's mostly static html

14:04 <mk270> yeeeees

14:04 <gasche> https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml.org/blob/master/src/html/dev_tools.html

14:04 <mk270> look, really, if the answer is no, just say no

14:05 <gasche> well, I don't think there is a centralized place to push changes to, that will be automatically rendered

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14:06 <gasche> but you can make changes and build the site locally (my point is that it should be *easy* to do so)

14:06 <mk270> yes, i KNOW this

14:06 <avsm> gasche: he wants to show it to other people

14:06 <mk270> avsm: thanks

14:06 <gasche> (do your "yeeees" have an ironic value?)

14:06 <avsm> i've mailed infrastructure to ask ashish

14:06 <mk270> avsm: cheers

14:06 <mk270> i can probably python -M SimpleHTTPServer or whatever

14:07 <mk270> if ashish is the guy pushing daily dummy commits to gh-pages in ocaml.org, get him to not do that, as a higher priority than a staging website

14:07 <gasche> (I'll be fine reading patches)

14:08 <mk270> avsm: quick move - thanks

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14:18 <mk270> ok - we're in business (one vpn and one ssh forward later - who disabled ipv4 in /usr/bin/balance?!)

14:18 <mk270> http://virtual.qwghlm.org:2082/dev_tools.html

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14:26 <gasche> def-lkb: I just looked and it seems ocp-indent and merlin have similar needs wrt. "resilient" lexing of OCaml programs

14:26 <gasche> they're not doing parsing (even less type-checking) but maybe a convergence would be possible?

14:27 <avsm> mk270: yeah, the daily commits are an annoyance due to the automated rebuilding of the ocaml script files. will fix that soon enough

14:27 <gasche> I feel bad at the idea of the amount of stuff to update for the next-next version of OCaml

14:27 <mk270> avsm: cheers - i am too lazy to use anything other than github's "Network" tab to find out what's going on in branching terms, and so spamming that with machine generated rubbish is a major cramp on my style

14:27 <mk270> re dev tools

14:28 <mk270> is a three-way split between "compilation toolchain" "build automation" and "distribution" ok?

14:28 <rks> gasche: resilient lexing?

14:28 <avsm> that's exactly the right split, with maybe IDE support separate from compilation toolchain

14:28 <mk270> i've thrown ide support into its own page

14:29 <mk270> i have seen RANSOM NOTICES with fewer fonts than the IDE support stuff that was in dev_tools.html

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14:33 <mk270> avsm / gasche: please have another look at http://virtual.qwghlm.org:2082/dev_tools.html

14:33 <mk270> is that at the right level of generality?

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14:36 <gasche> I'm sorry, but I can't access the page (I guess port restriction on my wifi access)

14:36 <adrien_oww> just build an ssh tunnel

14:36 <adrien_oww> (sorry :P )

14:37 <mk270> i thought they shut minitel down?

14:37 <mk270> is there a port number you'd prefer?

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14:43 <avsm> mk270: i'd class oasis as a distribution system, since it generates ocamlbuild rules and META files for ocamlfind

14:43 <avsm> oh you have it in both. ignore

14:43 <mk270> cheers

14:44 <mk270> but overall level of generality is ok, yeah?

14:44 <mk270> you'd have said otherwise. ok

14:50 <ggole_> Say you have a type for which you would like to make available in many places a Map instance.

14:50 <ggole_> Is there a more reasonable way to do it than duplicating the interface info?

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14:54 <gasche> ggole_: stdlib's Map has a module type Map.S that you can use to avoid repeating the whole interface

14:54 <ggole_> So include Map.S?

14:54 <gasche> no, that would be

14:55 <gasche> module OneMapInstanceAmongOther : Map.S with type key = yourkeytype

14:55 <ggole_> Ah

14:55 <ggole_> Cheers

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14:57 <gasche> ggole_: however, if you have several declaration of this kind, they will have distinct map types

14:57 <ggole_> That should be fine

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14:58 <ggole_> I'm going to have a Foo module with map available as Foo.Map

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14:58 <ggole_> Which should be the same everywhere, right?

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15:03 <gasche> ggole_: yes

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15:36 <Kakadu> Is it possible to get last inserted id in macaque? I can't find it

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15:38 <gasche> Kakadu: do you use a pgsql sequence?

15:38 <Kakadu> yes

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15:38 <gasche> Op.currval

15:38 <gasche> (in sql.mli)

15:39 <mk270> gasche: i'm going to try your plan re installing opam

15:41 <Kakadu> gasche: Great!

15:42 <mk270> gasche: configure: error: Your version of OCaml: 3.11.2 is not supported

15:42 <mk270> that's why

15:46 <Kakadu> gasche: but I how it should be called?

15:46 <Kakadu> my problem is converting int64 Sql.t to int64

15:47 <gasche> Kakadu: when you use an operator 'foo' inside a Macaque quotation, the elaborate code calls Sql.Op.foo

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15:47 <gasche> so, say, <:val< currval mycount >> should work

15:47 <gasche> otherwise use an antiquotation and call Op.currval directly

15:48 <gasche> mk270: I see; 3.11.2 is really old (no local open!), so it may not be feasible to make small changes to compile opam

15:48 <gasche> I'll have a look though

15:49 <Kakadu> gasche: Macaque README doesn't mention <:val<....

15:50 <Kakadu> And it seems that there is no this entiquotation

15:50 <Kakadu> <:value< converts ocaml values to Sql

15:51 <mk270> gasche: exactly

15:51 <mk270> so my colo runs debian squeeze, and 3.11.2 is what i get by default from apt-get

15:51 <mk270> hence the advice to install 4.00.1

15:51 <mk270> or whagtever version it is

15:51 <gasche> debian squeeze is... old :]

15:52 <gasche> Kakadu: sorry, I meant <:value< ... >>

15:56 <Kakadu> It is a hard day for me, I think

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15:56 <Kakadu> gasche: (<:value< currval $users_id_seq$ >>)#!what?

15:58 <gasche> mk270: there are first-class modules in Opam's code

15:58 <gasche> hm

15:59 <gasche> they seem useless, though

16:01 <gasche> Kakadu: Query.value dbh <:value< currval $users_id_seq$ >>

16:01 <mk270> it's more important to document the dev tool jungle than fix this, surely?

16:01 <gasche> or Query.value dbh (Sql.Op.currval $users_id_seq$)

16:01 <gasche> mk270: maybe

16:03 <gasche> dinner time

16:04 <mk270> it's been 25 minutes just getting opam installed - you may be right

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16:23 <Kakadu> any ideas how to PR my OCaml+QtQuick?

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17:03 <flux> announce it?

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17:05 <wmeyer> orbitz: hey

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17:05 <orbitz> wmeyer: hey

17:06 <flux> kaktus, PR as in Public Relations?

17:06 <flux> oh, kakadu left already :)

17:06 <kaktus> :)

17:06 <orbitz> maybe pull request?

17:06 <orbitz> although i'm nto sure where he meatn

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18:13 <Kakadu> flux: I already tried to announce it

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18:27 <adrien> Kakadu: you have a demo and screenshots?

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18:27 <Kakadu> demo

18:27 <adrien> you need at least screenshots, if not a video

18:27 <adrien> it sounds stupid but even ocamlers need that

18:28 <Kakadu> Will people waste their time to watch a video? They can think that plain text is faster

18:28 <Kakadu> or i'm wrong?

18:28 <adrien> well, I'm under the impression they would

18:28 <adrien> but you don't need to make it several minutes long

18:29 <Kakadu> adrien, okay, I will make it

18:29 <adrien> well, screenshots first :-)

18:29 <Kakadu> after recompilation of Qt5)

18:29 <adrien> preferably with the code used right inside the screenshot

18:30 <Kakadu> adrien: emacs in background screen?

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20:13 <adrien> Kakadu: just a quick way to see both the code and the result

20:13 <adrien> quick and pretty

20:14 <adrien> (and I don't think distributions want to reuse the packages made by others, re opam and rpm

20:14 <adrien> )

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